0:00Richard Greaser Hey. What's up, everybody? Happy Friday. My name is Isaiah Austin. I am the admin of the Bitcoin conference x handle. We're so happy to have you join us today. We're thirty one days out exactly a month from Bitcoin twenty twenty six, and we have reached the conclusion of Maxi Madness. So today, there's a lot of stuff to celebrate. I'm here with, Dennis, from B Mag. Dennis, how are you doing today?

0:25Rod Palmer Wow. I'm really good. This is this is very exciting. Frantically, sending messages to a couple other people I would love to see in this, but glad to see Rod and and, Richard and the the BUWU guys here.

0:43Richard Greaser Yeah. It's it's been a great a great tournament this year, probably the best ever. And, you know, shout out to the, the dog army. I see some of them out in the crowd right now because they they showed up big time for Casey and Aaron, and they made it possible for them to win.

1:05Richard Greaser You can't go very far in Maxi Madness without the fans, without your followers, without without the people. Who made you who made you the Maxi influencer that you are? So shout out to those guys. Shout out to everybody who participated this year.

1:22Rod Palmer Yeah. Honestly, a lot of shining moments and, really, really I mean, look. To go far we can talk I know I know this is gonna get in to the, history

1:35Rod Palmer of Maxi Madness and just, like, everything that goes on year to year here. But, to go far, you need you need a cult or you need actual followers

1:49Rod Palmer or you need bots. And, really, we could dive into the intersection of those. Is there a difference in some of those cases? Yeah. Very, very, interesting dynamics this year. Maybe less botting than previous years, but, we can chat about that, or or is that taboo? I don't know if that's taboo.

2:13Richard Greaser Well, the the ballot is it's a secret ballot. So the idea that bots are voting in Maxi Madness is pure speculation. There's a Podkoff tried to prove this last year, but they were unable to get very far, because Elon keeps the the API

2:33Richard Greaser everything secret. Richard, if you wanna elaborate here.

2:38Richard Greaser Yeah. Good to be on here. I've been trying to differentiate the difference between a pleb and a bot. This is, like, one of the the journalistic missions I've been on, and I I don't think there

2:54Richard Greaser is a clear difference because they they both operate the same way. Right? Like, the the pleb gets their their programming, their, you know, their prompting from an influencer, and and their behavior is dependent on said influencer. So,

3:11Richard Greaser you know, many many plabs will you know, they'll they'll go listen to their favorite podcaster. It informs them how to behave, whereas a bot gets their programming, you know, from an individual just, you know, via computer code. So I I I think they're very, very similar.

3:28Richard Greaser And, Well, you know, if we've learned anything from Brad Mills' very public journey with his Claude bot, Both labs and quad bots are very, very hard to train. They're very, noncompliant, very ungovernable. They kinda just go and kinda go rogue.

3:47Richard Greaser Yeah. So so the plot is actually probably more programmatically likely to follow directions than a bot at this point. But, yeah, I mean, you know, these these types of conversations oftentimes are used to try and discredit our democracy.

4:05Richard Greaser And, I I don't always think are fair. You know, the the winners have put the work in. They deserve it. They they've organized their voting base, however it might be. And, you know, this year was unique in the sense that a podcast

4:24Richard Greaser won the whole tournament, I would say. You know, you had the cohost, facing off against each other in the finals. So it it wasn't as clear, as there being a winner and a loser. I I feel like a podcast won for the first time in Maxi Madness history, and, that was, exciting.

4:47Rod Palmer Now I do see Erin in the in the audience here if, because I she needs to she needs to be her own voice in this case. But, yeah, the the the Hell Money podcast, is oh, I mean, it it is a fantastic podcast. I recommend it. Obviously, Casey and, being in the finals again there is, is quite silly. Yeah.

5:14Rod Palmer Has Walker ever gone up against his own

5:18Erin RIP denim. Did we lose denim, or did I lose everyone?

5:23Richard Greaser No. We lost denim. Yeah.

5:25Erin Oh, RIP denim. I can take it. I I can take the Hell Money podcast praise from here. I could tell he was starting to route it to praise someone else or to talk about someone else, which I just think is wildly inappropriate in a time like this when, Hell Money podcast has has clearly

5:41Richard Greaser champion.

5:42Erin Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, Walker was out, I think, in round one or something. So, you know, really not the time to be, to be talking about lesser, Bitcoin podcast. But, yeah, I actually kinda wanted to say something about the the bot thread. I oh, Jesus. This is probably gonna be a totally different like, there's gonna be no Venn diagram intersection in a reference I'm about to make. But, over the last week, the has up

6:13Erin roar about Chapel Roan who, her security guard apparently told a child that came up to get her autograph, like, to back off, basically. Like, the security guard basically, like, squared up against the child. The child cried, and then it turned out that the child had famous parents who then went and posted about how Chapel Rhone had done this and and what an evil menace Chapel Rhone was for it. And this was kind of this whole

6:41Erin big moment that's happened over the last week. And just today, Chapel Roan I mean, it's presumed that it's Chapel Roan's team because someone had to have paid this research group. But basically, this research group came out with this report that says, oh, you know, about 20 to 30% of all of the discourse surrounding this Chapel Rhone stuff were bots that were that were activated against Chapel Rhone. And so this this report was basically trying to reframe the narrative as, oh, it's just bots that have been saying this against Chapel Roan. It's it's not it's not genuine engagement that is actually angry at her for this situation. And I just thought that was interesting to see because

7:20Erin that same, research group did the same thing for Taylor Swift during her, Justin Baldoni, it ends with us, Colleen Hoover situation with Blake Lively. And so we're we're actually starting to see, like, counter narratives around bots, which I think we also saw in Maxi Madness, right, where it's like, I mean, look at the engagement that Casey and I got on every single round of Maxi Madness. Like, regardless of if anyone ever bought at anything, we dominate it. Like, we we've dominated

7:50Erin every single time that we were on. And yet the best that the other side can do is say, well, it wasn't real. It must have been bots. And so I think we're just gonna see this more and more. Like, the fact that you see that at the level of Chapel Roan or Taylor Swift and equivalent, competitions of equal importance like Maxi Madness. Like, I just think we're getting to a point where it's like people can just write off anything as saying, it's AI. It's not real. It's bots. And so yeah, I just think we're, like, getting further and further into a, into a situation where, like, people can just kind of create reality around whatever they want it to be.

8:30Rod Palmer Boy, I didn't know I was gonna, rage bait you just this soon in the calls by bringing up bots. Aaron, Aaron, speak about speak about being runner runner-up to Casey. Does this create any uncomfortable dynamics with the two of you? We're probably gonna have

8:49Rod Palmer a subscriber podcast here soon. Yeah? Or or at Spaces. That was that this week?

9:00Erin Yeah. We have we actually have an episode dropping right at the end of this space. Like, the Hell Money episode about, the ordinals bit rejection will go up at at, like, noon, like, in forty five minutes from now. So you will get to see us in, like, maximum sadness. This was pre maxi madness, so, like, morale was extremely low on that episode. But, yeah, you know, I'm I'm used like, Casey has, like, more than 10 times the amount of followers that I have. So it's like, what what do I think is gonna happen? And then, also, like, when you activate the ordinals, like, Casey is the more name recognizable name. So I think the thing is, like, I know that the real ones voted for me. And, like, Casey might have even voted for me, to be honest. Like, I feel like,

9:45Rod Palmer you know, I I know that I'm the heart and soul of the movement. I know that anyone who's really in it knows that as well. So, you know, it's just it's just part of the, part of the situation we're doing. Use Chinese sorcery to activate, certain types of d gens? It seems like he had an acute awareness of various types of Chinese meme memery. He is now here. He can speak for himself. I guess these are, like, again, false accusations, perhaps.

10:10Casey I just wanna say that this is a huge victory for the drowned downtrodden simps. We won't let the Foids walk all over us. This is this is the real the real message. The incels are gonna rise up. The the trickeryth astrology voids don't have power of ours anymore. Okay. We've discovered, Chinese numerology,

10:33Casey which gives us our own power. So I think this is a great victory and a great, equalization of the of the sexes.

10:40Richard Greaser I I disagree. I think you winning Casey was a major loss for the Sims. We were all looking forward to, winners, posting nudes.

10:49Casey See, that's the that's the first order effect, but the second order effect is you the simps need to break free of their chains. Okay? They can't be shackled just praying out here begging for a glimpse of the titties. You know what I mean? They've gotta have more self respect. They gotta be saving their money on OnlyFans. They've gotta be stacking stats. So I think that's the real that's the real message.

11:10Richard Greaser It's important never to glaze the simps. If you glaze the simps, they just get out of control.

11:20Erin Casey, I don't know if embracing your incel identity is really gonna help with your overall mission of trying to get a girlfriend. Yeah. Probably not. I feel like you were on a better path. You know, this is not this is a I feel like every time we we put ourselves in front of a new audience, it's an opportunity for you to, like, meet a woman. And, like, this is you've really turned off everyone.

11:39Casey All of the, like, two women that are in the What I'm really excited to say is that I'm a dedicated feminist, and I actually endorsed Erin to win. She should have win. She was really she was really the, the power of the campaign, and it was only due to structural misogyny that she lost. So, yeah, I just wanted to put that out there.

12:02Richard Greaser I would like to see a prediction market on who gets a girlfriend first, Casey or, Shinobi.

12:11Richard Greaser Well, Casey is the Maxi Madness champion, so that is gonna be a huge advantage to him. Shinobi, he let's let's let's face it. There's a lot of obstacles in the way. For Shinobi to find a girlfriend, Maxi Madness winning Maxi Madness would have helped, but I I still think there would have been a lot of a lot of roadblocks there.

12:37Rod Palmer Now clearly, this is gonna be an unhinged, no direction type of of conversation, but I do wanna kick it to, Tommy who is here from the BMAG handle, who who awarded the winner with a very special present. Would love for him to hop on and explain himself and, perhaps, you know, ceremonially

12:58Rod Palmer betrove this to Casey.

13:01Tommy Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm a little busy ripping packs of Pokemon cards right now, but I'll try to, you know, do this too. Yeah. I got the call from Rod Palmer to make the trophy for this year's Maxi Madness, and I, did it in the wee hours of the morning last night. And I am very proud to present

13:25Tommy a hand drawn slop, nothing AI. Just pen on paper, Pepe for Casey as the trophy.

13:37Tommy And, it was really, handsomely paid for by the bugle. So thank you.

13:43Casey This is incredible. I wasn't expecting this at all. I think, some original Tommy artwork is, absolutely a fitting a fitting a fitting, a fitting, championship gift or whatever. I will definitely, treasure it forever and have it framed and put it up on my wall. No joke.

14:01Tommy I can send you the actual paper because it is real. So let's let's do that. Let's get it framed.

14:07Casey Hell, yeah. Yeah. I will send you my address. Absolutely.

14:10Erin Yeah. We should probably hang it somewhere that you can see it in the, like, hell money episodes. So we gotta figure out good placement for that. Because, just to remind you, it is it is really a hell money award. I I'm even featured in the art itself. So I'm sure Dennis made sure that that happened honestly because Dennis knows what happens. I'm I'm like a very sore loser. So I'm not gonna I I promise you Dennis had nothing to do with this one.

14:37Rod Palmer Aaron, speaking of sore losing, can you speak a little bit about your, your ranking and, your first round matchup with Ross Ulbrich? Because I I'm looking at I was re reviewing, Rob Hamilton's winning bracket, and I noticed that, Frank, Frank Korva was up against Lynn Alden in in the first bracket. Again, a very tough draw. What what did you did you take that personally? Would you like to speak about that?

15:05Rod Palmer And, yeah. And if I were to, like, you know, do a one shining moment, I would say that first round victory was a big deal, and then maybe we can also talk about the Chris Chris Seeder, oh, matchup, which also had some shining moments. Yeah. I I was definitely very,

15:22Erin upset and invigorated by being seated number 15 out of 16 in the hot bracket. You know, I think it's it's actual I mean, clearly, it was a fair fight for me to go up against Ross because I beat him. So it's not that I was necessarily so angry that I was up against Ross. I think Ross is very good looking. He has really great, like, bone structure. He kind of consistently mogs. But to see some of the people that were seated above me in the hot bracket, yeah, I don't I don't know how that was chosen, but it it wouldn't have been the selection I would have gone with. And I I actually even think maybe the hot bracket in general. Like, there were lots of people that could have gone in the hot bracket over some of the other competitors.

16:05Erin No shade to my no shade to my, my bracket. But that was kind of, I think, what what activated me initially to get so involved in Maxi Madness was I realized, like, what a shame it would be if I not only lost to Ross, but, like, proved that my 15 seeding was accurate. Like, that was really what motivated me as I needed to beat Ross. I needed to show that I shouldn't have been seated at number 15. And I think I showed that ultimately because not only did I dominate, the hot bracket, but ultimately, I dominated PodCon as well, which which would have been my other bracket, I think. Yeah. The the the you not being in the podcasting one, I know probably also was, yeah. But the but I mean, I'm I'm not upset about being in the hot bracket. You know what I mean? Like, that's fine. Yeah. That's fine. But but it's nice to to show, to be given the opportunity to show that I can dominate both arenas.

16:58Erin You know, so so ultimately I think the results speak for themselves, but, yeah, I I also just kinda wanna say, like, this is the first Maxi Madness that how many podcast or ordinals people have even been on the board. And so I feel like maybe Casey and I would have won 23, 24, 25, and 26. You know what I mean? Like, who's to say? So I just think this is the first maxi madness that we've given we've been given the opportunity to, to compete and show what we're worth.

17:26Rod Palmer Well, Bugle may have to defend themselves here a little bit, but I also think, like, look, I I have stated that I thought Larry should have been in the the hot bracket. I mean, he does post a lot of CrossFit, pit photos. And, like, also, is that kind of ageist to not, like, have him in the hot bracket? Like, but Bugle can defend themselves because, clearly, there's been numerous, like, questions of rankings here.

17:51Richard Greaser I just do I wanna say that Ordinals has had representation before. Before. Udi and Eric have competed in the past, and they performed extremely poorly. I think they're poor representations of the ordinals ecosystem, though.

18:07Erin Yeah. I would I mean, I wouldn't really we've not we haven't had either of them on Hell Money podcast, for example. Like, I I I feel like putting Udi and Eric in as ordinals people is kind of just like an ignorant misnomer. No offense. I would say they're they're more like just like anti maxi people that just sort of happen to coalesce around ordinals at the time because the maxis were so mad about it and I guess because they already had an NFT collection that they were trying to do, which my understanding is they were going to do that NFT collection, like the Taproot Wizards, on Ethereum. And then it just happened to align that ordinals came out, and so they ended up making it an inscriptions collection instead. So, yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't put Oody and Eric in with ordinals people. I just think that's kind of like,

18:53Erin yeah. It's like I mean, this is so, like, representative of what I think has been showing in the last week is, like, the maxis just have no idea what's happening outside of their bubble. Like, everyone who's not in their bubble, they're like, they're a shitcoin or ordinal person, and they're all the same. And it's like, no. We we have our own ecosystems going on. And some of them might be even bigger and more dominant as we've seen from me and Casey getting to the top two.

19:19Richard Greaser Yeah. I I think there's a lot of truth to that. And, you know, maybe maybe I wouldn't fade Casey or Aaron in any Maxi Madness tournament. However, last year, Teddy Bitcoins,

19:34Richard Greaser I don't think anybody could have beat Teddy Bitcoins. And if if you want some evidence of that, just look at the poll results of the championship last year when Teddy Bitcoins faced Michael Saylor. So now going back to what Aaron said about the onslaught back of the chamber and Maxi's not necessarily having a lot of awareness outside of the of their bubble.

19:60Richard Greaser Right? Last year, Maxi Madness preceded paper Bitcoin summer. And so the finalists in Maxi Madness last year were two paper Bitcoin influencers at the very top, right at the very height of

20:15Richard Greaser the spring entering into the first paper Bitcoin summer. Teddy Bitcoins was a big micro strategy, you know, influencer, I guess you could say. And and, of course, Michael Saylor was his opponent in the final. And so once Teddy Bitcoins shocked the Maxi Madness fans dominated, completely dominated, I mean, he took out Yellow, he took out Lin Alden, he took out Adam Back, and then he took out Sailor in the final.

20:41Richard Greaser And Sailor was engaging. Sailor sent his simps to the polls and still lost to Teddy Bitcoins. And then we had paper Bitcoin summer. So I think nobody saw that coming a year ago. And I think, I don't know what's coming this summer. I don't know if it's the money, the summer of hell money, the summer of ruins, the summer of the dog army. I don't know. But I know the paper that Maxi Madness, typically is like a a is foreshadowing

21:09Richard Greaser of very, something that's gonna be trending big time in the summertime. So just think about that when when when the summer kicks off and and things start to get crazy.

21:22Erin That's a really good point. I wonder what kind of thing how many podcast could do that would cause, like, a major bullish rise in the summer and then just like a complete nuclear crash in the fall. Casey and I will have to think about that,

21:38Rod Palmer to see what we can figure out.

21:41Erin Yeah. The turbo flag. The turbo flag. That's a great point.

21:45Casey Actually, maybe Casey should speak more on the the turbo flag. If anybody has ideas for what the turbo flag should do, definitely let me know. You know what I mean? I'm all ears over here.

21:57Erin There actually was a beautiful moment of unity. Yesterday, we ended up going live on the Hell Money account. In theory, it was, like, to debate each other, although that that wasn't really what actually ended up happening. But yellow was in the chat on the stream, and yellow was throwing out ideas for the turbo flag, which I thought was was beautiful. So there definitely has been a little bit of, of unity, I would say, coming from the, traditional maxi side.

22:25Erin So, yeah, maybe maybe we can workshop with yellow and see what, like, a good turbo flag feature would

22:35Rod Palmer be. I also see Rob Rob in the in the audience here. It would be great to get him up here for him to talk about his winning bracket, because, he he he he picked the best bracket, and 'tis the season. But, yeah, Casey, again, huge congratulations.

22:54Rod Palmer Once again, mogging Aaron is is real rough in a public setting like this. I I don't approve of that. Say that she's gonna beat me in private. It's gonna be bad. It's gonna be real bad, bro. It's true. It's true. Actually,

23:09Casey Yeah. I, I'm not I'm not gonna get a single word in edgewise on the next podcast. It's just gonna be, uh-huh. Well Yep. Yep.

23:18Rod Palmer Seeding her seeding her so low by the bugle, they they didn't know that, like, Erin is not gonna not try and also doesn't agree with the idea of just, like, trying to lose. Like, she's just not gonna do that. So, like, was was was, quite the

23:36Rod Palmer the fury that she unleashed throughout through from round to round. And the Chris Cedar round was really entertaining. And, obviously, yellow is is an absolute legend and, happy he can speak for himself. I see that he's here now. So

23:52Yellow What? What do you want, Damian?

24:01Rod Palmer Yellow. How many days in a row did you do, don't stop, believe in spaces? That it you cultivated a a, I you know, calling d s DSP was like a a for people that weren't there, it was incredible. Like, I I those were I loved those days more than anything. It was absolutely phenomenal,

24:25Rod Palmer daily humor, and, it was almost like a Sisyphus thing where he had to show up every day, so he, like, kind of wanted yellow to be free, but also the idea that it kept going. I remember at Bitcoin twenty '22 in in Miami listening to it. I think the price of Bitcoin was, like, 46

24:46Rod Palmer or maybe it was in the high forties that had gone down from 69. But yeah. And then, and then the days just started to go go on and on. But that was that he I mean, yellow you have I I would consider myself one of them, a a dedicated following, but Casey and Aaron,

25:10Rod Palmer they also have a following, and they also have, Chinese, followers that were sleeping sometimes.

25:19Yellow How do you how do you get Chinese? Thank you for your time. It was one thousand a hundred and twenty three days consistency. And, also, how do I get Chinese followers? I'm really interested about that. Do I have do I start reading in Chinese or something?

25:39Rod Palmer Yeah. Erin, how does yellow get Chinese followers?

25:42Erin You have to be tweeting in Chinese, like, in Mandarin specifically. Honestly, Casey is the best. He knows all of the Chinese memes somehow. Like, the one that he posted with the beaver where he face swapped himself onto the beaver. Like, that wasn't like he didn't have to, like, go ask what meme to do. Like, he just knew. So Casey is very tapped into, to Chinese culture. I would say he has a great appreciation for it, actually.

26:09Casey Yeah. You've just gotta be a terminally online,

26:12Rob basement dwelling nerd. I think that's a that's a good good first step. I just wanna jump in for a moment to verify this. At Bitcoin Hong Kong, the Bitcoin magazine conference in Hong Kong, two years ago, Casey, like, showed up at an event, and the line of people looking to talk for her with him, like, basically wrapped around the whole talking area of people, like, mobbing him like a celebrity. He's already plugged in. And Aaron and I just kinda sat there and watched him just have, like, a whole wall of simps just charging Casey. So he he's been working on this coalition for years at this point.

26:45Casey I've taken so many selfies, all playing the long game. So many selfies with Chinese fans, all playing the long game to win Maxi Madness. It's all been leading up to this moment.

26:56Erin Yeah. I think that trip that Rob's talking about where Rob and I were just sitting watching Casey take selfies, I I swear to God Casey took 1,000 selfies over the course of three days. It was insane. So if you wanna know where those Chinese votes came for because I I did see, you know, Adam Back was really loose and just playing fast and loose with the accusations of bots. And and the answer is just like Europe went to sleep and Asia woke up. Asia woke up and the Chinese were activated, and they came and they voted. So I feel like,

27:31Erin yeah, those those, like, 1,500 or however many votes that came in overnight for Europe and America, that was just the that was just the Chinese mob coming in, and supporting. Those were all the people that Casey took selfies with.

27:45Richard Greaser I think YOLO deserves to be flooded with Chinese beaver. I think that he would love that.

27:54Yellow Was that a sexual induendo?

27:58Richard Greaser No. No. It was about followers.

27:60Yellow Okay. Okay. Aaron, did you think that,

28:07Rod Palmer Aaron, did you think that the TikTok dance would perform a little bit better in terms of numbers? Like, that that was one question I had.

28:17Erin You know, I kinda knew that once we awoke the sleeping dragon of China that they weren't going to be able to be swayed by such tactics. Like, the TikTok dances mostly work for incels in America. It's kind of just like a different audience, I would say. So the Chinese are gonna simp for Casey. Like, I knew that. So I did know that the fact that we had to activate the Chinese in order to get us into the top two, I figured that that would probably also hurt my chances of winning overall. I think the biggest disappointment was really that that Twitter's call to action was not

28:55Erin heated with more seriousness and and with more attention. That did boost me a lot in the polls at the end, but, yeah, you know, I think I think, my strategy when I was campaigning against,

29:10Erin Ross Ulbricht and, Chris Seder was that Bitcoin maxis aren't gay, and I think that that played out well there. Unfortunately, once you get into the ordinals mob, it seems like many of the ordinals people might be gay.

29:29Yellow Well, you do call it the turbo fact. I don't know why you call that.

29:34Erin That's a good point. That's a good point.

29:38Richard Greaser We all know that Witter's, call to action got mister Hoddle's attention.

29:46Rod Palmer Yeah. Witter's that was a great attempt. Chris Seedorf, though, also wore a, tube top and,

29:54Erin looked quite good as well. So I I, you know, my hat's off to him. But but still still in the Chris Seedorf round, though, you know, that's basically Maxi versus ordinals. You know what I mean? And so, like, the ordinals people are gonna be loyal to me even if they might find Chris Siedor to be more attractive to them personally. But I think once you get ordinals versus ordinals and it's Casey versus Aaron, yeah, that's where the sexuality comes out. And so that that actually might be one of the biggest major findings of Maxi Madness is where is the gay split within the kind of greater Bitcoin culture?

30:28Rod Palmer Oh, I know. Yeah. There was a lot of act there was a lot of accusations of Asian gays too, for Casey. But, yeah. Go go ahead, Rod. I think I I I was gonna say,

30:40Richard Greaser in the sweet 16 round, one of the toughest matchups that Casey had was against Nifty. She put up a pretty good file, but that was almost as close or maybe as closer than the Adam Back round. And I think that I think Nifty deserves, you know, some some praise and some glaze for her performance.

31:03Richard Greaser She was pretty much out of commission the next day, with a migraine after she left it all on the court, I guess.

31:13Rod Palmer She does deserve some glazing because she really she she has a history of cosplay and LARPing and, you know, really to, like, you know, to battle, like, Casey and Aaron's background in cosplay, like, she really had to dig in deep. It was well, I don't know. Is that, like, you choosing to play somebody on their own game? Like, you don't wanna run against, like, Arizona this year. Like, that that's a bad idea. Like or or I don't know who wins it. I don't maybe you don't wanna play Aaron and Casey in a cosplay game.

31:47Yellow Yeah. I would say something there if I may. Please. Yeah. Sorry, Yolo. Once again, congrats to the guys. Casey for the Maxi Madness, being the winner and, to earn for a

32:05Yellow a good fight. My parents have taught me to extend the hand after the the match is done, so I did that. Other than that, think

32:18Yellow are kinda stupid. It's not my thing, but you do you. I won't judge you. You do yourself. Whatever you want. So the other guys in their game, I guess, the new narrative

32:31Yellow that yellow, was the part without realizing at the first was, later on, culture is done, or north culture is in. Now name all my friends on quotes,

32:49Yellow and this is gonna be the last Maximus I'll take part. I wanna do my thing also, and I have big plans down the line.

33:01Yellow So that's it. I reject your kind of open mindedness. I think it's kinda gay, and

33:12Yellow I feel free and okay to my closet absolutism. So cheers.

33:26Rod Palmer Yellow is always a gentleman at heart. But, Aaron Aaron and Casey also kinda think that ordinals is gay too, so I don't know if they're necessarily I don't know. I don't know. I think there's really not that much They don't they don't call it the turbo bag for no reason. You know? Well, heartfelt world words from yellow always speaking from the heart.

33:51Richard Greaser He's he's one of Maxi Matt he's a Maxi Mattis legend. He won the inaugural championship. It's it's doing that many DSB spaces, three Maxi Madness' in a row. It takes a lot it takes a lot out of you.

34:12Erin Yeah. I can see that. I mean, it's it's hard for me to imagine campaigning, like, the way that I did this time again. I really I really lost a week of, like, any other productive stuff I could have done, working on this Maxi Madness campaign. But, fortunately, it paid off. You know? I think, I do also wanna wanna just say to the the that, there's absolutely no way that Casey would have acknowledged or noticed this competition and then, decided to do the turbo flag had it not been for my

34:42Erin obsession. So, you know, I'm not mad at the for not voting for me in the end, but I I do feel like, again, anyone who knows knows that, I was the one who was running the campaign and, who was who was bringing in the results that the the voters care about. So, you know, it's fine. I'll just do, like, Hillary Clinton secretary of state to Obama saying this is this is sort of the way for,

35:07Erin for women, I suppose.

35:12Casey I should, I should dip. It's, time to go to the gym. It's time to, you know, spark Spartan like, you know, work on my body or whatever after, Maxi Madness has, has has challenged my mind. But thanks thanks everybody who voted, and, send me your ideas for the turbo flag because god knows I need them.

35:36Erin He really does.

35:42Richard Greaser Problem, what what are you planning to do with the lifetime supply of silt miner tallow soap that is now coming your way for picking the best or the most accurate bracket from Maxi Madness?

35:58Rob I I I'm honored. I'm flattered. I'm already a regular soap soap miner purchaser. They have great fragrances for men and women. My wife's a big fan of the Earl Grey one. I'm, I I use a lot of the pine tar one and also their redacted one. They're they're they're great. It's great soap.

36:20Rob I saw Evan Kalupis is also giving me an official Zeus wig and hat, and Craig at the conference has now told me that I need to wear that when I'm on my panel at the conference. So I'll be sure to get my shipping details to get those in the mail. It's funny because I remember right when Maxi Madness was kicking off at the start, I was on a spaces. I post, I posted my bracket and I was talking with Erin, And she she tut tutted me properly saying that how could you think that she wasn't gonna go deeper and that she would lose to Ross? And I totally, totally miscalculated.

36:54Rob I thought the Bitcoin, like, culture on Twitter had just a decades long Pavlovian response of supporting Ross whenever something's happening on the Internet, and that did not happen.

37:08Rob It did not happen at all. And then Aaron went on a deep run. I actually found out about this space originally because Chris Siedor said that I needed to come up here and defend his honor. And if he wanted his honor defended, he maybe he should have tried a little bit harder and won the bracket. You know? And maybe maybe he could have put in a little bit more effort. You know? Like, it was it was all over once he started posting photos of him in the tube top with Aaron. That may or may not had been my idea to start. That may not have been me nudging him telling him that that's what he should have done. But, I'm I I also like, I I had a pretty good run. You know, I I got to the sweet 16. I lost to,

37:46Rob as Casey calls him guacamole zucchini, but Giacomo, unblocked me on Twitter maybe, like, three months ago, so I'm eternally grateful already. I I I'm pretty proud of my run. I think it was a good show by everyone. I see I see Mars in the audience. I think Mars should have at least had a play in round. I think the biggest upset of the whole thing was Teddy Bitcoin's fault losing in the play in round. Like, that was a shocking the whole the whole bracket was just wild. But great performance by everyone. I'm I'm sorry I doubted you, Aaron. You you you crushed it. You you you persevered,

38:22Rob and you won, all the way to the finals. So you took out the PodCon region and the hot region. Well deserved and well earned.

38:32Erin Thank you. Thank you. I will say I also kind of underestimated myself because in my bracket, I had myself beating Ross, but then losing to Isabella. I thought that people were gonna take the hot category, like, very seriously. So I thought, okay, I'm obviously a shoo in against a man. But the second that I go up against a woman, it's kinda over for me unless, like I mean, in Isabella's case, like, she is

38:59Erin she's she's kind of, like, exactly what a Maxie would want. Like, she's, like, living on an island, like, tax haven situation and talking about, like, being lonely and wanting wanting people to come visit her who are into Bitcoin. You know what I mean? Like, I can't compete with that no matter how many TikTok dances I do. So I really thought Isabella was gonna beat Ben. I was shocked when Ben won against Isabella, and then I I figured I'd go out. Justine Harper was sort of like that was that was the first woman that I went against, and I was very scared, to go to go against Justine.

39:35Erin Fortunately, I think at that point, I had built up enough momentum from the really, really aggressive round with Chris that I was able to kinda, like, get carried through, just just on, like, kind of the, the hangover from that campaigning strategy from the previous day.

39:51Rod Palmer Karen, do you think that Isabella fell into that category that maybe is the add them back care category where they they just didn't try try and then and then yeah. For sure. For sure. If she had posted even once, I think she would have beaten Ben, and then she could have probably beaten me too.

40:07Richard Greaser So what has that done to your psyche? Like, how has it changed to have the free market choose you to be hotter than, the tidings of hotness like Justine and Isabella, Aaron?

40:22Erin I mean, I Casey Casey remarks almost every single day that I am, like, the least humble person that he knows. I am consistently, like, tooting my own horn and celebrating my own accomplishments. So, honestly, this is just, like, par for the course for me. This this isn't,

40:43Erin you know, but I but I will say, like, I I kind of already knew that I was gonna lose to Casey, and so I didn't I didn't, like, put my self worth into that. Like, I know when to kind of, like, pick I know how to pick and choose, like, which things to be competitive in. So, you know, I I think it's it's correct for me to win the hot bracket. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm, like, visually speaking, the hottest of all the competitors. I think it's a combination of campaigning and visual appeal. And I know that I have the social politics

41:16Erin intelligence to be able to rally the troops behind me and to create a good social campaign. So I think it's a combination of looks and personality, and I just happen to be the total package.

41:29Richard Greaser Well, I think it also has to do with astrology. I I would consider astrology having been on the ballot, and the voters decided astrology is hot.

41:39Erin Yeah. I think there's also some people who might fear me as well. And so they may have voted for me just because they think maybe Aaron knows if I if they vote against me. You know? So they don't they don't wanna build up that bad karma against me.

41:54Yellow Yeah. Do

41:56Rod Palmer we anticipate seeing more Bitcoin astrologers now that one Bitcoin astrologer won? Like, is this Rod, do you think there'll be more than one Bitcoin astrologer in next year's, Maxi Madness?

42:09Richard Greaser And it's it's worth exploring even making that its own region if it becomes trendy enough and popular enough. And this is what I think the first time we integrated prediction markets. And having having astrologers

42:29Richard Greaser in Maxi Madness mixed with prediction markets, that might be a a crazy combination because they if they can predict the future, it, it completely changes the game theory of Maxi Madness. This year was just the first year that we had it and predicts, told me that the Maxi Madness markets have had surpassed

42:51Richard Greaser more than 1.2 Bitcoin with almost a full Bitcoin paid to winners.

43:00Rod Palmer Rob, how much personally do you take credit for some of that? And, yeah, maybe fill people in. I I mean, Zaps weren't able to on Nasr, which is awesome, but I heard that prediction markets via Nasr was, like, really, popping off.

43:18Richard Greaser Oh, it was incredible to watch. The the Nasr competition was fierce. There was a lot of excitement. There were a lot of sats spent. A lot of sats spent. We're talking millions of sats. And

43:36Richard Greaser a 16 seed won the tournament. Rev Hoddle, absolutely incredible guy. I saw him in the space here, a little bit earlier. But, Yeah. It was fun to watch. It was we didn't know if it was gonna work. I mean, one one of the, you know, the problems with Noster historically is that the UX is kinda, you know, less than the best, and it it worked. It worked. And people are excited about it. People had a ton of time to go on. But For those that for those that don't know, can you explain that there was, like, actually a different,

44:10Rod Palmer competition going on? Like, a kind of, like, a separate but equal, but or, like, apartheid type situation. And then, like, who was in that? People that aren't Nostra are not on Nostra may not know about this at all.

44:24Richard Greaser Yeah. It's, you know, the world of Nostra is completely different than the world of Twitter. They they have their own culture. They have their own, so to say influencers and, you know, celebrities, it's very, like, developer focused. In in many ways, it's kind of like a a galt's gulch of of Bitcoin

44:47Richard Greaser culture where, you know, it's individuals that don't really want to participate in the the pit, and they're just kinda wanting to hang out with people that, you know, do things similar to them. But yeah. I mean, I think most of the people looking at the Nasr bracket have no idea. You know, Tonebase didn't know anybody

45:09Erin in this Maxi Madness bracket, which just kinda goes to show how to how out of touch he is with, Who who is Tone Vaze? Like, I've never even seen that profile before. You see what I just did there? You see how they just keep, they do that over and over again. But that actually is serious. I don't know who Tone Vaz is, and I was confused. Is he pro BIP one ten or anti BIP one ten? Because I saw BIP one ten people being mad at him. He he's very anti BIP one ten. Okay. So he's politically homeless.

45:38Richard Greaser Yeah. He he's like an old he's a very old school podcaster. I I think he's an important one for you to know and just understanding, broader Bitcoin culture. But he is a guy that has obviously been resting on his credentials and is out of touch. But he organized a conference, has been a long time podcaster,

45:57Richard Greaser likes to, you know, do trading stuff. He's one of the, you know, old school, like, this is how you trade Bitcoin, people. So, you know, Matthew Kratter, you know, kinda looked at tone base and built off of his model.

46:13Erin But I mean, you say you say that I should know these people, but I literally have asked Casey things on the podcast. Like, who is Marc Andreessen? Is he the guy who's, like, a VC with an egghead? Like, it's, or Gavin Gavin, Mark, whichever one. Again, like, literally, this is the level. I got into Bitcoin post COVID. So, you know, it's 2026. I've I've been in Bitcoin for over five years now, but I think, the old heads really just have this, like, nostalgia for you know, it's like it's like when grandpa tells you stories from the war. You know what I mean? And you're like, wow. You have PTSD from Vietnam, and you are stuck in, like, a version of reality that no longer exists.

46:52Erin I feel like that's kind of what's happened in in Bitcoin maxi realm. And for some reason, they can't break out of it or or, like, there's no wake up call that will present itself to them and make them realize, like, wait. Maybe maybe it actually isn't that the newcomers need to educate themselves on how important I am. It's like, maybe you aren't as important anymore, and you're not as relevant anymore. And it's it's okay for a new wave to come in that has their own

47:21Erin interests, their own perspective. Actually, kind of speaking to that point, in terms of a astrology bracket and maxi madness, I think you could do an astrology fourth turning bracket because there's a lot of influencers in Bitcoin world

47:38Erin that are doing astrology. But because they're men, they don't say that. They instead say that they believe in the fourth turning or they say that they believe in the Ray Dalio cycle of empire rise and decline. All of these things are based on astrology. Like, they literally are astrological cycles, but it's not like it it wouldn't work for their audience for them to say that, so they instead use these other terms. But I think you could easily fill out a bracket. Like, Lawrence Lepard is a fourth turning guy. There's obviously, like, a couple Bitcoin astrologers you could throw in there. There's a Bitcoin astrology panel happening happening at the, Vegas Conference this year, so I think that's the first time we're getting that. So I would say fourth turning

48:19Erin astrology, that could be an interesting bracket to to put in next year.

48:24Richard Greaser Well, unfortunately, Aaron, we're in the first turning now. So that ship's kinda sailed. But, yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's an interesting I I I think it's helpful to to understand history or else history, you know, tends to repeat itself. It's this is one of the common things where the playoffs don't read history and then they continue to

48:47Richard Greaser repeat the same or, you know, kinda old boring arguments that have already happened. So I I do think it's helpful to know who Tone Face is, you know, for that reason because, you know, Tone's been having a lot of the arguments for years that that many people are rehashing. So you could you could skip a lot of, headaches if you if you just have a little bit of a historical reference of, you know, what's going on. But, at the same time,

49:16Richard Greaser you know, you bring up a very good point, which is that many of these people that have been around for a while, they have just rested on their credentials. They're they're failing to continue to learn. They don't have enough entropy in their, podcast listening, if they even listen to podcasts. Like, I mean, you just look at how stupid everything mister Hoddle says all the time. Like, that guy obviously doesn't listen to podcasts. He has no idea what's going on. And it's just a it's a shame that people embarrass themselves

49:48Richard Greaser so, regularly on the timeline. Like, I don't know how in 2026 you don't know who Aaron and Casey are. You don't know who Hal Money is, and you don't understand the importance of the most important election of our lifetimes.

50:05Erin Yeah. I I feel like ignorance is not something that people should be proud of. Like, I'm not necessarily proud of the fact that I don't know who Gavin Andreessen is. It's more that I say it because I think it's funny, and it's interesting also to see that I don't know. That that, like, there are just, like, there are different perspectives in Bitcoin that exist. And so if I have to, like, put myself on the chopping block to show my ignorance in order to, like, not just promote this idea that everyone has all the same cultural references and everyone has all the same perspective,

50:39Erin I will do it. And I think that's kind of what Hell Money ends up being. Like the basic premise for Hell Money is that Casey's the expert and I'm the interviewer. It has completely gone off the rails since that initial premise but that was the initial idea is that Casey is this expert on Bitcoin, and I'm asking him questions that I think the audience would want to know and that I wanna know. And so, you know, with that, I feel like I kind of I think at one point, I asked him if smart contracts are executed by lawyers. Like, do you need a lawyer to make a smart contract? Like, shit like that. You know? So I try to just kind of, like, go for it, but I but I I do find it really interesting that

51:18Erin a lot of the maxis are sort of flaunting their ignorance in a way that's like, there is no educational purpose. Like, they're not like, oh, who who is Casey Rodemore or Aaron Redwing? What are ordinals? I've never heard of these things. I would really love to know about this. Like, they're flaunting their ignorance as if it's a trophy or a prize in and of itself, and they have no interest in educating themselves. So it's like I don't know. It's kind of interesting to see that that sort of meme play out. And so when Tone Velez says that he hasn't heard of Casey, I just kind of don't believe it. Not that I think he should have heard of me, but it's like Casey was everywhere, like, for, like, a year or two. I don't know. I I just I don't buy that. It just feels like he's kind of he's regurgitating

51:60Erin language that he's heard other people say that for some reason he thinks makes him seem cool, and it it doesn't. You know?

52:08Richard Greaser Oh, I don't think any of us on stage think tone bass is cool. Yeah. It's it's productive to play the bit. And I I think, you know, a lot of the individuals that are around these days, many of them got their education from Peter McCormick. Right? And so they they think and they they talk like Peter did. And, like, part of what made Peter such a great interview

52:34Richard Greaser was that he played the bit of being uninformed. But, you know, because he's so prominent, like, a lot of individuals thought that he was setting the example for how to be, which is coming off as being uninformed. And so they thought it was appropriate, like, okay. The biggest podcaster in the world doesn't know what an expub is. I don't have to either,

52:59Richard Greaser you know, so I can go out there. I mean, you look at, like, Huddlnot. He's, like, the perfect example of somebody like this that is unironically being Peter McCormick.

53:12Erin Yeah. That's that's a good point. I mean, I think that's also, like, the monetary kind of macro econ guys kind of took over as well. Right? It's like they I I do think it's very effective to use these kind of analogies. Like, Bitcoin is literally a battery. Bitcoin literally converts energy into currency. Like, that speaks to the plebs because it's so simple and it just, like, scratches your brain. And I think that that sort of, like it kind of ends up being, like, an alternative history kind of rhetoric. And by the way, big enjoyer of Atlanta of, you know, alternative history Atlantis was totally real. But, like, those types of things just, like,

53:52Erin captivate people's minds. And so they don't actually ever have to learn about how Bitcoin works because, like, they're not even interacting with Bitcoin. They're just, like, DCA ing on Swan. So I feel like, yeah it's it's like it's the Peter McCormick kind of effect like that sort of podcaster style of like I don't know anything. I'm gonna interview all of my guests like I don't know anything and I'll never learn and I'll never come up with new information or my own insights. I'll just keep being a blank slate over and over and over again for these people to put their messages out. But then I think it's also the messages themselves that, like, the messages that came out were these, like,

54:27Erin very dumbed down kind of, delicious metaphors that make Bitcoin into something that, like you know, it's it's like not even really getting at what Bitcoin really is. It's kind of just like dumbing it down so that you just, like, can tell yourself that you're a genius for getting into it first.

54:44Richard Greaser The the technical definition of what you're describing, it's it's called pep slop.

54:51Rob I need to be very careful because I'm actually in Bedford right now, the Bitcoin capital of the world for Peter McCormick's conference cheat code in The UK. So if I speak illy of him, his his his goons, the police force, are gonna be right outside my door. So I just need to come out and say that Peter McCormick is the best Bitcoin podcaster that's ever done it. And, I think I I think he does great work, and I I hope he comes back to Bitcoin soon. I I don't want to I like, I'm in Bedford. Like, I'm I'm I'm behind enemy lines. Like, they will extract me out. I I'm I will have to explain to what Peter what an x pub is. Like, it's gonna be like a a tortured prison sentence.

55:30Rob So I I wanna be very careful. I don't think anything you want me to share with him, I can go tell him at dinner tonight your your thoughts and opinions.

55:38Richard Greaser I don't think anybody spoke ill of, Peter. I I think you're misunderstanding what was said.

55:46Rod Palmer Also, Erin, you've been a guest on that show. No? No. No. No. Casey's been on,

55:51Erin What Bitcoin did, but oh, no. I was on the table with you. Wow. With Danny Knowles, not with Peter McCormick. Peter McCormick, like, I I think was he I don't know if he was Swan podcast industrial complex or what, but, like, someone clearly told him that he needed to be anti ordinals because when he had Casey on, I mean, it's, like, the most absurd interview. See, I'll talk shit about Peter McCormick now that I know that Rob is behind enemy lines and that they're gonna execute him. Yeah. When Casey went on Peter McCormick show, like, a couple years ago, it was so crazy. Like, I encourage anyone who's interested in this topic of this kind of cultural divide to watch that episode because Casey answers every question with, like, complete, like, knowledge, technical efficiency,

56:33Erin like, just kinda gets to the point and, like, answers everything honestly. And about an hour in, you can just see Peter McCormick. Like, he literally says something like, I'm trying to think of anything that I can say against you. Like, he's literally, like, stirring his brain, trying to come up with anything that he can say. And then at the end, after this, like, very, like, honest, easy you know, it's not like Casey's defensive about ordinals. If you ask Casey about ordinals, like, he's he's not into it. He doesn't even, like, trade inscriptions. Like, he he's not like a shitcoiner at all. I think, like, it's like at the end Peter's like, yeah. Well, I don't know if I have enough information to make up my mind at the end of this. Like, it just seems really clear to me that he had some sort of agenda pushed on to him for some reason, and I don't know

57:19Erin why or who, but that that's kind of my shit talking on Peter. But Peter has done a service in in that he's just gotten out of the game. You know what I mean? He, like, has clearly realized he was out of his depths and that he should just talk about, like, UK cultural issues instead, which I think is probably a better market for him.

57:42Rod Palmer Well, yeah. And and, yeah, I again, we don't need to dig up all this history, but I do remember listening to Casey on Citadel Dispatch, which is, like, a super, you know, of the culture, Matt Odell, podcast. I remember those days. But yeah. Okay. So,

58:02Rod Palmer Bugle, I'm throwing it to you as we wind this this time down. What do you expect from the the next year? Any parting words about this year? Aaron, Aaron, Casey,

58:15Rod Palmer hell money. Appreciate everything you brought to this and and, like, taking it serious. I I hope for more cringe. Honestly, I want more cringe next year. I

58:25Richard Greaser next year, I have no idea what to expect. It all just when it when the time comes, the brackets, the matchups, the regions, it just comes to you. And I think part of the reason Casey won this year is because the the secret

58:42Richard Greaser to Maxi Madness is don't overthink it. Don't overthink it. Just let the just enjoy the ride on the plug slot popularity contest.

58:55Richard Greaser I have no idea what to expect, and I don't even wanna think about it. I think we put everything out on the court, for this year. I think both of us are just completely tapped out energy wise. Gonna have a nice relaxing weekend,

59:15Richard Greaser enjoy you know, smell the roses, and, listen to Bitcoin podcast. I mean, it's just, there there's a lot of things on the horizon. The the next big thing for us is going to be the Las Vegas event that we're excited. We're gonna be partnering with Pub Key and Rabbit Hole Recap to do an event there. So anybody in the audience, tell all your friends. Make sure to show up because I'm sure, it's gonna be a very popular event, and there's limited space,

59:45Richard Greaser to be there. I'm very excited about that. There's gonna be a Noster event. That'll be a lot of fun. We'll have some awesome musical performances there. I mean, that's all I really could think about is just living in the moment, living life one Bitcoin podcast at a time.

1:00:01Erin Yeah. Speaking of living life one Bitcoin podcast at a time, the, the Hell Money podcast episode just dropped, and I've, pinned it to the top of the space. So if you are someone who did not know who me or Casey were before, Maxi Madness where you had never listened to How Many podcast, the episode that we just posted is Casey and I. It's so demoralized. Like, we are at, like, max pain because we this was filmed, like, right after they rejected the ordinals bit.

1:00:31Erin And so, like, we're completely defeated in this episode. But I think I think we get at some interesting you know, of course, we talk about the Epstein files, because that's always relevant to things relating to Bitcoin core and the BIP process. And, yeah, it's a pretty good episode. So if you're, if you're trying to keep the Bitcoin podcasting vibes going, go check that out.

1:00:51Richard Greaser I heard Brian Bishop's thinking about reopening,

1:00:55Erin the the bibs since Casey's victory. Yeah. I think that was a stipulation from Maxi Madness was that Luke, if he didn't win, it was gonna have the, or I guess, Dathan. Dathan didn't win. I don't even think he made it out of his first bracket. So I think they have to close the the BIP one ten PR, and then I think they have to reopen the ordinals BIP and give it a number.

1:01:19Rod Palmer I was a little disappointed in Gloria's performance. I I, I thought I thought that could've gone better. But, yeah, Hell Money podcast is a fantastic podcast. And, if you're a subscriber to it, you get in on, what is always a very funny and entertaining, members,

1:01:40Rod Palmer Twitter space. So highly recommend it. Bugle, good luck in Las Vegas. Aaron, thank you for bringing it. I expected nothing less out of you. Yeah. Tommy, thank you for, the time you put into the the award. It really nailed the the vibe, I think. And, you know, actually, one more thing, Bugle. The level of production this year was fantastic. I don't know if you've been complimented enough on that, but it really was, like, an incredible

1:02:09Rod Palmer step up. So, cheers to you guys. But, thanks to everybody. Winners, sorry we didn't get to see, you naked. That was a real bummer.

1:02:19Erin Erin Erin, congratulations on hotness. You know? It's a thing. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks to the Bugle guys for doing this. I feel like this was a, it's a fun opportunity to bring the whole community together. And, I made I made plenty of friends along the way, so I'm very grateful to that.

1:02:40Rod Palmer The friends you make along the way. That's the truth. Bugle, take us out. Thank you,

1:02:45Richard Greaser guys for having us on. And, Tommy, if you're still listening or around, thank you for that wonderful, piece of artwork. You are truly one of the greatest Bitcoin artists of all time.

1:02:60Richard Greaser And if you are still in line to vote for Aaron, stay in line.

1:03:10Richard Greaser Thanks, everybody. See you all in Vegas next month. Use code x 10 for 10% off. See you.