0:03Richard Greaser Welcome back to another episode of this intellectual Silk Road edition of the People Weekly Bitcoin podcast. Today is a special

0:15Richard Greaser interview. We are with the champ, the winner of the inaugural Maxi Madness Noster edition.

0:26Richard Greaser Now, before Maxi Madness really kicked in to the later for the final four, the championship round, I said that Nasser, because of the the zap structure of the boat, where you get your boat with your zaps instead of one man, one boat, one end pub, one boat. I said, this was social capital price discovery.

0:49Richard Greaser And that's exactly what it turned out to be because the social capitalist, Rev Hoddle, is joining us today. He's proven that the Maxi Madness can be and was a smashing success. Thank you to the primal developers,

1:06Richard Greaser to to Milt Mijon, Paul Keating, all the guys over there who made this possible. Rev, how's it going? Are you still are you still feeling the afterglow of your of your win? I saw you had a corny chat

1:23Richard Greaser last night with, in the winner's circle. How how's it been since last week when you took home all the all the glory?

1:33Rev Hodl Oh, well, I'm still recovering, you know. It's good to it's good to be able to talk about it while it's still fresh. But, yeah, it takes a lot of work to participate in Maxi Madness. If anyone listened to the the Twitter spaces with, Aaron and Casey, it sounds like they had spent, quite a bit of time, participating as well. And I think that's just what it takes in order to win. You have to really, prove that you're the one having the most fun. You know? So I had a little bit of fun last night kinda just explaining my strategy,

2:05Rev Hodl and how I used, permaculture, the lens through which to view the competition. And I think that's, how I came up with the winning strategy, but I was by no means doing it by myself. Like you said, the social capital was the key component in, pulling it all together.

2:22Richard Greaser Hey. Explain what you mean by because you talked about this in corny chat last night about permaculture and how this is relate how it relates to Maxi Madness and your path to victory over

2:40Richard Greaser you you beat a very hot person in the championship, an international sensation, just got off tour with Sabaton in Europe

2:51Richard Greaser singing, and you you soundly defeated Noah. So could you explain how this works and why you you think that's this permaculture phenomenon

3:05Richard Greaser is what vaulted you to the championship.

3:10Rev Hodl Well, in permaculture, there's three ethics, earth care, people care, and the third ethic I call non extraction. And the non extraction ethic is a big component of this, especially when you when you tie in the the game theory of the prediction markets, the predicts market. In addition to that, permaculture operates with, this viewpoint of systems succeeding from one phase to the next. And so in order to, in in the instance of Maxi Madness, the the whole tournament is a series of rounds. In each round, as you win, you succeed into the next round, but each round is different than the round before it. So a new strategy must be employed in order to, take that round down.

3:49Rev Hodl And and and so in permaculture, we also talk about these mixtures of of plants, working together in ecosystem. We call that a polyculture. And so when you look at, the social capital that I employed in order to, take down the whole thing, I I viewed the different, I guess, pools of social capital that I had built up either through Gnostr, through these group chats, or through the meetups that I go to as different, plants, you could say, in this ecosystem of, like, a food forest.

4:20Rev Hodl And so it was it was a it was a whole, thought process of how and when to utilize each pool of social capital, each plant in this polyculture system, and and choose the when to deploy those, to glean the yields from that based on what process of succession what part of the succession in the tournament it was.

4:43Rod Palmer It's very cool. It it was fun to to watch it, you know, from behind the scenes and and just see it all play out. I was very active in the the group chats. You were very active in the group chats. Now the question I have for you, do you feel like you spent all your social capital? Did you gain social capital? Do you have to refill your social capital? What what's the, you know, kind of the process of next steps for you after this victory?

5:15Rev Hodl Well, so and a big part of my strategy was to create incentives for people to participate. And, you know, the Meshedel really won this thing. The Meshedale was the group chat that took down Odell in the semifinals, but they were there right with me the whole time. I mean, if you go back and look at the results, you see these names from the Meshedale Meshedale. They were boosting big without me sort of asking for any favors the whole time. But, you know, I did have to eventually say, look. If I'm gonna win, I need to, you know, sweeten the deal a little bit. And so I offered up to the Meshedel, like, if you if you vote, max vote, you can get, a jar of maple syrup from me, a pack of my cannabis seeds, a free ticket to Lake Satoshi,

5:58Rev Hodl a bag of Otis Big Meyer coffee. And these are items that we have we have already been exchanging in the anyways. And it's so it's not, this comes back to the whole non extraction thing. I could have chosen to extract from my social capital base, and like you said, then I would be in a deficit and I would have to replenish it. But instead, I created a a more of a holistic approach where now, the way I was thinking about it is I was basically selling these items and then donating the stats to the bugle through, their vote, and then we get to participate in this tournament. And everybody sort of wins all, all through across the board.

6:37Rod Palmer Very cool. How's it how's your wife how's your wife feel about your victory?

6:43Rev Hodl Well, she doesn't have much to say about it. Unfortunately, she's not that excited.

6:49Rod Palmer Do you you don't feel like you have bragging rights? It hasn't changed any of the home dynamics of, you know, her looking at you differently?

7:00Rev Hodl Well, you know, the the the glitter in my eye is is, definitely a little brighter now that I'm the champion. And she does recognize that, but, you know, I don't think she attributes it to Maxi Madness. She just looks at me and says, maybe something's a little different today.

7:18Richard Greaser But you mentioned this polyculture, and I assume that does not mean multiple sexual partners. You're still a loyal,

7:32Richard Greaser you know, husband. This is what polyculture just means different different logos, different types of call, like, different meetups. What does this explain this a little bit more, thoroughly.

7:46Rev Hodl So a polyculture in, a food forest, for example, is when you have, there's there's seven layers to a a forest. Right? You got your ground cover layer, which would be something like strawberries, And then you've got the the herbaceous layer, which would be something like comfrey or rhubarb or horseradish.

8:05Rev Hodl And then you've got your, shrub layer, which would be something like currants or gooseberries. And then you got your, your understory layer, which might be something like hazelnuts. And then in my food forest, the overstory layer is the fruit tree. And so these plants can all grow together cooperatively because they take up a different size and shape of that that understory beneath the tree. So they're not inherently competing with each other. They're all working cooperatively. And so this is how you can pack a lot of yields into a small footprint. And so the same can be true of your social capital. Right? I looked at the social capital that I had in the Masjidel as one one, part of that that layer of the food forest, of the the social capital capital forest. And then my local connections, the hyperlocal stuff from everyone that I knew going to the meetups was another layer. And then the the Noister community that I participate in was another layer. And so I had access to all these different layers. They're all kind of intersecting and working together and connected together in one way or another, but they do come they they form this holistic

9:08Rev Hodl viewpoint, which is Bitcoin culture.

9:12Richard Greaser What is the optimal stack in a seven layer salad of the forest? I think I would want strawberries, rhubarb, feast berries,

9:25Richard Greaser hazelnuts. How would you finish out that stack?

9:29Rod Palmer Tobacco.

9:30Richard Greaser Tobacco. Where is tobacco? Which layer is the tobacco?

9:33Rev Hodl I think tobacco is probably somewhere between the herbaceous layer and the shrub layer. It's it's, it grows pretty big, but it is an annual. So

9:46Richard Greaser That's a good that's that's important to know. It's that's hard to keep up with if you're planting annuals.

9:53Rev Hodl And so, you know, if you look at, like, if you take something like tobacco and you try and equate it to, Bitcoin culture. Right? It's something that, everybody wants but isn't necessarily coming to every meetup. You know what I mean? Or not always active in the group chat. But, like, tobacco is the the plant that just says, like, hey. I've been head down vibe coding, and I just made this new app, and boom, here you go. And the the addiction is on. Right? And everyone wants more of what tobacco has to offer, but it's not there perennially. Right? It's only there. You have to cultivate the tobacco. Whereas these, these other plants are perennials, so they just are as long as you participate with them and you and you interact with them, they're around, and they're there to and and in the lens of the social capital like we've been talking about, that social capital continues to liquidate amongst the the whole polyculture. Right? Everyone's trading

10:48Rev Hodl between themselves.

10:51Richard Greaser The one of the user experience hurdles that the Maxi Madness Nostra Tournament had to overcome

11:02Richard Greaser and had to have some playoff rounds playing, you know, to to make up for is Primal has a web of trust and a web of trust can filter out some people who are maybe just creating end bugs to zap more than once or something to kind of create like a civil

11:23Richard Greaser attack sort of, give the impression of such anyways. But thinking about a web of trust on Nostr where that is much more customizable than it is on some platform like X and it kind of relates to

11:41Richard Greaser these communities these permaculture type of situations that you're developing. Have you

11:51Richard Greaser explored kind of this this customization or this optimization on on Nostra or your group chats with this web of trust where you have layers of group chats, for example, with, like, the mesh channel and some of your other more trusted confidants, and then it layers out from there where, like, a new person coming into your,

12:16Richard Greaser your space or your sphere, so to speak, kinda has to go through these layers of the web of trust before it gets down into your most cherished group chats.

12:26Rev Hodl Well, sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And and through the lens of the the tournament, let's say, through through the lens of Maxi Madness, this is how I chose to, when to tap. Right? When to utilize my social capital in in which particular circle. I knew that I needed to save my local homies until the very end because that once I didn't even really tell anyone locally that this thing was going on until I was in the finals. So now when I'm in the finals, I I present, look, I'm in the finals. If you wanna take me across the finish line, here's how we do it. And people got excited about that. If I had

13:02Rev Hodl put them let them know that I was in the tournament right from the beginning, I might have expended that social capital too soon. And so, yeah, there's there's just different, relationships that you have, and, it does it does, filter it on down through for sure.

13:19Rod Palmer Absolutely. What what was your impression of how did how did Noster receive Maxi Madness?

13:29Rev Hodl I think that it was, about as, fifty fifty as you could have expected. A lot of people were excited about it and and having fun with it, and a lot of people wanted to like, found it to be incredibly annoying and how to get it to go away. And, you know, when I was like, hey, dude. This is gonna be happening for, you know, the next week or something. They're just like, oh god. I how do how do I do I have to mute you? You know? It's like, well, you can, but I'm gonna be, posting about this. You know? Because I think,

13:59Rev Hodl as you guys say, it's the most important election. Right? It is important. And it's it's a distillation. It's it's a way of anecdotally, assessing what a particular community sees as valuable. Whether you wanna say that the the results were gamed or not or whatever. Right?

14:20Rev Hodl It is ultimately like the Twitter, championship. That shows that people do value data on chain. Right? To me, anecdotally, that's, that's what that the result of that tournament suggests. Like, the Bitcoin culture right now appreciates that shit, and they don't care about BIP one ten, and they don't care about PodConf and and Swan or whatever. Right? And the Nostril tournament showed that people care about people interacting in this grassroots level,

14:49Rev Hodl running meetups, doing podcasting, focusing on building circular economies. Right?

14:57Rod Palmer Absolutely. I mean, the the two individuals in the championship were neither of them were Podkoff affiliated. And I would consider your matchup against Odell in the final four as a referendum against Podkoff.

15:15Rod Palmer Would you agree?

15:17Rev Hodl Well yeah. And and so this kinda gets back into this whole non extraction principle. Right? And where, it wasn't me versus Odell. It was me versus Predix. Right? So I I knew that there was some people with money on the line over on Predix, and I think that they had a cake walk, dude. I think that they were expecting that, you know, all they they however, someone had figured out I'm not gonna say who. Right? But I think someone knew how to get by the this web of trust system that, Primal had put up, and they could influence the votes. Right? They could juice it up with some some some men pumps that they spun up. And so once I realized that, I was like, okay. This is who I'm competing against. I'm not competing against Matt Odell. I'm here to prove that, like, you you have no idea when some dude who's connected in the community, if they unleash their social capital, that you're gonna have a hard time, you know,

16:12Rev Hodl make it pushing the the results of this prediction market to your favor. And we accomplished that. The Meshedel totally shut that prediction market down. Proved it wrong.

16:22Rod Palmer Absolutely. You know, you you paid attention to the Twitter maxi madness. The dynamics were incredibly different. The mechanisms were incredibly different. What what do you what was your perspective on that of of of the happenings on Twitter versus the happenings on Noster?

16:47Rod Palmer Like, how how do you see the dynamics as different?

16:52Rev Hodl I think that, like, the just the fact that people have to put SATS on the line, it, in Noister sort of changes, the way that people are, participating

17:05Rev Hodl because it you can if so so a lot of the the if you wanna win, right, you have to have a community rallying around you. And so in Twitter, you have to have a large community. Right? You could have a a small community of of very dedicated fans. Right? And they're all gonna vote for you every time, but their their vote doesn't have much weight because somebody else can just

17:28Rev Hodl access their larger user base or fan base or what they they have a larger, form of social capital where everyone can just click one button for free and vote. Whereas on Nostr, it shows, like, how much, people are willing to put down for you, like, how much they really appreciate you, right, and what you, represent for Bitcoin.

17:49Rev Hodl You know, because, like, right at the beginning, I knew that I was pretty popular on Nostril. Right? I I I participate on Nostril. I've been doing it for several years. I went to the first Nostril. And, you know, right off the bat, I against Jack Dorsey, I didn't try to do anything. Right? I just this is another permaculture principle. Right? Observe and interact. I just wanted to see what would happen round one and just watch that play out. Now I eked it out, by about 200 sats, maybe 250 sats. That was a super close round, but that was just purely,

18:22Rev Hodl the Nostra community saying, like, yeah, dude. You're around and you're participating in Noester. Where did Jack Dorsey go? You know? Why why would I put my sats down for that guy? He you know? So, yeah, it's the the difference is that the someone's audience or their their social capital base can, really show how much they care. One vote can can mean a lot. One person can do a lot more

18:48Rev Hodl on Twitter than on on or on Noester than on Twitter.

18:53Rod Palmer Yeah. I'm excited. I do I like that there is, there's more options with Noister. And the big thing that I wanna try and do for next year that, you know, I'll I don't have confirmed that they'll do it, but one of the things I really like to do is to do splits in the polls for the individuals participating. So there's a little bit more of an incentive for them to participate to try and

19:23Rod Palmer earn earn zaps, essentially. So the the way I think it would be is, like, you know, the people would would get a portion than both of the participants would. And so the the incentive is to continue to compete until the finals, to be able to earn more zaps. And I think that'd be fun. I think that would get people's buy in a little bit more, and that'd be a cool function. The This one was you know, it all happens till last minute. Like, the the primal team pushed this update, allowing us

19:55Rod Palmer to do these polls, I think, maybe a few days, if not a week, prior. So there wasn't a ton of thinking into the mechanics of how it worked. It was very experimental.

20:09Rev Hodl Yeah. There's some there's some interesting it's really hard to think about what's gonna happen. Right? And I'm sure you guys had no idea how it was gonna play out, how big people are gonna zap, what was really gonna go down. And if you start to filter some of that, so this this comes back into permaculture. Once again, there's, self regulate, accept, and apply feedback. And if you if you put the zap split in there, now you've got a feedback loop going. Right? So if someone wins and they've got now they've got a whole bunch of sats. Right? Now they can essentially offer these incentives like what I was doing for free. And so you give the,

20:43Rev Hodl each round kind of snowballs, has this potential snowballing effect. You know, as the participant, you have to make the choice. Do I keep the sats, or do I use the sats to, continue to create incentives for my, my social cap, my base of voters, right, or people who are participating to keep zapping big.

21:03Richard Greaser Do you think that the democracy should be run more like Maxine Adnis? Do you think that every November for one week, we should have a a a bracket of 64 politicians, and they have to go through each round until we finally get down to the last two, and that's who we vote for for president, and we can vote. Do you think we should do that, like, with one man, one vote, or we should do it with Zaps,

21:27Richard Greaser like, on Gloucester?

21:29Rev Hodl I think, like, what Maxi Madness shows is that, you know, this is what the new government looks like when democracy fail. Like, when when fiat system breaks down and all the shit hits the fan, this is how we organize. Right? Because, like, Jason Lohrey. Right? The the whole idea of, power projection through Bitcoin, like, that was the Meshedale right there. You know? The Meshedale was like, look. We we've got a a dedicated group willing to project power, through this tournament and and win. You know? And so there was no violence. Right? But in the end of the day, there was some serious power projection going on there. I mean, what was it?

22:06Rev Hodl Almost a million sats or over a million sats on that semifinal round? That's not that's jump that's generational wealth. Right?

22:14Richard Greaser So did are you saying that the the Demesh Dadell declared soft war on Maxi Madness? And what?

22:22Rev Hodl I'm saying that the that, you know, the whole Maxi Madness thing is software. Right? And this is how Right. You project power.

22:32Richard Greaser That's the interesting way to frame it, and I didn't think about it prior to the beginning of Maxi Madness, but a few rounds in I realized, holy shit, this is we are in the middle of, you know, software one. There's gonna be future softwares and I don't know if it's gonna be ten years from now, Maximus, but this was the first soft war. And there was

22:58Richard Greaser almost as many casualties in soft war one as World War one. The amount of crash outs, the amount of crash outs in the trenches, the amount of crash outs on the time, it was yeah, you're right, you've heard of the book All is Quiet on the Western Front. It was kind of the opposite. All is

23:21Richard Greaser crazy, all is chaotic on the timeline front during Maxi Madness during Software one because people were crashing out left and right it was like a machine gun A guy in one of those pillboxes just mowing down plebs and they were just crashing out. And I saw the crash outs, the the the huge amount of crash outs on Twitter. I did I saw some on Noster.

23:48Richard Greaser I didn't see them all but you were is I my assessment about you saying it was about fiftyfifty, was was roughly accurate based on my observations. And do you think that that contributes to the success of Maxi Madness having

24:06Richard Greaser a sell side and a buy side? People who are buying in and people who are like, fade this noise, I hate this. And their annoyance, their crashing out, brings more attention, brings more eyes and realizes, holy shit, there's a lot of social capital on the line. I have to pay attention to this. I have to put my bets in on the prediction markets. I have to be involved in this somehow. I thought it was stupid, but now I'm realizing that there's a situation going on, and it is in my best interest to be monitoring it very closely.

24:39Rev Hodl Well and you know who's there's other people that are gonna be monitoring monitoring who voted for so the beautiful thing about the no strip polls too is that the votes were public. Right? So I could go back and see, like, oh, this dude voted against me. Why? You know? Kinda it it brings up questions. Right? Where I could see that, oh, this person's really, involved in the culture, but they didn't participate at all. Why? And so this definitely adds a whole another layer of, you know, when when it comes down to it, talk about crash outs and everything, you you kind of like if you don't participate, now it's it's clear that you didn't, and that's like a crash out in itself. Right?

25:19Rod Palmer What was your favorite crash out that you saw?

25:22Rev Hodl Oh, that's a good question. I mean, it's gotta be, my homie, Kid Warp. So Kid Warp is, he's he's local kind of to me, and, I I know him personally. And he was just like, dude, this is so fucking annoying, man. And he was like, when is this gonna end? And he he he it wasn't like he he couldn't let it go. Right? He wanted to continue to post about not liking it. And so that is it's like, dude, when you don't like something that much that you can't stop, you realize that you're feeding the beast here. You know? You gotta just if you don't like it, you can't say anything about it. Otherwise, other people are gonna be, what's going on? And they're gonna start getting riled up into it. And so he had the opposite effect of what I think he was hoping for was that he wanted everyone to boycott it or something or just stop talking about it. But in reality, him saying something

26:06Rev Hodl really stoked the flames of it all.

26:09Rod Palmer What do you think his protest was? I mean, Rod and I were speculating about this on the last episode. You know, Nostra users aren't really used to any sort of real activity on the platform. Right? Like, they're used to, like, occasional good morning post, you know, very light farting around on the app. Do you think it was just overstimulating

26:33Rod Palmer for them, or or what what was the the issue that they saw with it? That that people were getting zaps, or

26:40Rev Hodl it wasn't them? Well, yeah, it's just like somebody came and take it's just like, you know, you got your your neighborhood. Right? And and, like, someone's roll rolling through with the boom truck, right, with the boom truck fucking playing their music, fucking forcing everyone to to to look at them as they roll by. It's like, out of nowhere, I don't think anyone was ready for it. And, it there it was unavoidable. Anywhere you look, you're gonna see something about Maxi Madness while it's going on.

27:08Rod Palmer So Right. What do you think we should do in the future? Should we, like, you know, put PSAs out before to, like, shelter in place, you know, for the week if they aren't excited about it or, like, go on vacation or something?

27:21Rev Hodl Yeah. The the the war is imminent. I I don't know if it's good to keep, keep on the the Jason Lohrey software meme here, but, like, in it it is, you gotta prepare a no stir for this shit because they clearly weren't prepared.

27:35Richard Greaser I think it's I think a good strategy would be, there there's no this is a software, but if we map it to real world physical conflict, kinetic warfare, there is no military

27:49Richard Greaser more, competent and skilled at what they do than the Israeli Defense Forces, the IDF. And what they do in Gaza and in in Lebanon and these other places is they they give everybody a ten minute warning where they they send in these these precision guided projectiles that basically thump really hard and they say, hey, you have x amount of time to get out of here because we're human terrorists if you don't. And

28:19Richard Greaser giving Noster kinda like the IDF courtesy, announcement that, hey, Maxi Madness is about to start and it's gonna go for a week. Get out of go go to Blue Sky, go to Reddit, go to, you know, don't go to X, go to Facebook, go somewhere else and shelter in place, or take cover in the group chats. And I think maybe that's the answer is people need to just bunker down in the group chats during Maxi Madness to keep their sanity. Because if you isolate yourself or you get stuck on Facebook with a bunch of boomers freaking out about some AI slop that they fell for, my kids, you're you're gonna probably crash crash out over there too. The the place where you're least likely to crash out is the group chats.

29:01Rev Hodl Yeah. Maybe the best way to go about it would be to to take the committee and start to, as they're making their picks, sort of, tease that a little bit. Right? And you don't release the whole bracket right away, but you put some spoilers out there. You know, like, Odell's back. You know? He's gonna and so that's a way to ease into Maxi Madness, get some awareness about it. The bracket slowly builds up over time, and that leads into, the actual tournament.

29:27Rod Palmer I sure understand. Yeah. There's a lot of dynamics to, you know, explore here. You know, for the for the individuals that, you know, were very unhappy with what you said with us taking over their neighborhood for a week, Do you suggest that they do something like they form NOST or HOAs and and set guidelines of what's allowed in their neighborhood? Or, like, how do you think they create a peace of mind for themselves?

29:52Rev Hodl Well and this is the direction that Noister is heading in, man, is that, I think every website will be a Noister client. If you're gonna participate in Noister, you're gonna stop going to websites. You're just gonna go to this one niche client after another to get to filter the information on Noister the way you wanna see it. And so for that week, everyone can go to the the no Maxi Madness client or whatever. Someone can spin that up and just filter all that shit out. Everyone can can go on these Relay, browsing clients, and everyone can choose to go on a Relay where no one's posting the the Maxi Madness notes or whatever. Right? So there there is definitely, ways to you can't hide from it on Twitter. Right? I mean, it's impossible. But on Noester, there's there's these little nooks and crannies everyone can can, shelter in place for if they choose to.

30:43Rod Palmer So, like, they switch over to Daunus for the week, something like that? They're not an amethyst or, primal?

30:52Rev Hodl Yeah. I mean, especially, like I think that other people found that frustrating too was that so this, the nip that allowed for the zap votes was not in the vast majority of the clients. And so, people were seeing it, and then maybe they decided that they wanted to participate, but then they couldn't. And so that made it even more frustrating. Right? And that now I got you're you're twisting my arm to go get Amethyst or Primal, and I have to use a a client that I don't like in order to to finally break down and and submit zap my vote. Right?

31:26Richard Greaser So you used to do you think that some people believe there's a conspiracy that Primal got involved with Maxi Madness because they just wanted the marketing. They wanted people to download and use Primal. Do you think there's some evidence for that?

31:43Rev Hodl I mean, why not? Yeah. But if I was primal, I would I would definitely do that.

31:48Richard Greaser There's a there's a lot happy? Right. It's like, Paul Teething is hot, and he's walking around half naked all the time in Costa Rica. And there's videos of him but apparently that only gets you so far. Like he only only so many people are using primal and wanna live free based on thinking that Paul Keating is hot. They needed something fresher, something more controversial,

32:11Richard Greaser more dynamic, and they leaned into the Maxi. They even changed their logo for Maxi Madness. They made it blue just like the Maxi Madness, branding, which I thought was interesting as well. They should have turned the they should have turned the Primal logo. They should have made it, like, a little basketball too instead of, like, a little Firefox rip off.

32:32Rev Hodl Well, I I think didn't, so all this this lined up with Primal introducing the new, Spark based wallet. Right? The new KYC wallet and all that. And I think so many people got into Maxi Madness and started to use the wallet and and turn it over that it actually overloaded their infrastructure. However, they had it set up. Right? They had to fix that shit. And so, yeah, it turned out that Primal made a good choice in in implementing the SNP just for Maxi Madness. I don't know if they did it just for Maxi Madness. I don't really but but the fact that they did it on time was, very poignant. And, you know, they they got a lot more people participating in Nostril because of it, and that's a good thing in my mind.

33:12Rod Palmer So Hell yeah. One of the conspiracy theories that I've been hearing periodically is there there are a lot of individuals that said that Nostra was a social attack on the Bitcoin ecosystem, taking people away from Bitcoin Twitter. Like,

33:28Rod Palmer you know, Erin Redwing, the the runner-up in the the Twitter one, she was very she turned her nose up to Noster a couple times. What what are your thoughts on that theory? Is would you consider Noster a a social tack on the, you know, the Plebslop, Bitcoin, Twitter industrial complex, or, is it something else?

33:51Rev Hodl Well, it certainly is a is an attack on the Plebslop, man, because the the algo there's no feeding the algo right now on Gnoster. And so, yeah, you you have an option to go it's, I have this this saying it's, DIY or DFI. Like, do it yourself or go fuck yourself. Right? And so, on Gnoster, you can do that. You can you can build your own experience. And if you don't like it, it's totally your responsibility to fix that. Right? And,

34:18Rev Hodl on Twitter, you're kinda stuck with whatever the hell is going on over there. And so, yeah, it is it's it's an attack in a sense that, like, dude, we over here on Nostra, we just do whatever we want. Like, we do our own thing. On Twitter, you're subjugated to whatever Twitter wants. They can shadowban you. You have to bend over and do whatever you need to do to get your exposure, get your, what do they call it, impressions or some shit. On Nostra, you just build your social capital and and participate. And the more you do that, the better it becomes for you.

34:50Richard Greaser What about what about people who they love to monitor the situation? It's very hard to monitor the situation on Noster. Like, I don't know if Noster realizes we've invaded that we've attacked Iran yet. Like, they're still kinda waiting on some of that the news cycle to make it over there. Is it is there an opportunity or is there a solution for people who like to monitor a situation if they were to go only on to Nostr,

35:19Richard Greaser would would they be able to do that?

35:22Rev Hodl Well, so I think Nostr is for, participants, not for observers. Right? If you wanna just consume once again, this comes back into the permaculture principle of non extraction. Right? You just wanna extract information from a platform, and and for only your benefit, then Twitter's the place for you. But if you if you try and do that on Nostra, you have there's some work that you have to do in order to get what you want out of it. And so you have to actually participate. Extraction doesn't work on Noister. Right?

35:52Rev Hodl You have to actually be part of the community. And so that's my that that's what I think about it.

36:01Rod Palmer You're a meetup organizer. You're a prolific meetup organizer. You're very active in on the ground in the heartland of America. You know, the sentiment online is very bearish. Why what do you see the sentiment on the ground looking like at the moment as you're interacting with people that are interacting with Bitcoin?

36:25Rev Hodl It's, well, I don't know if if this correlates with this podcast that I recently just, started called Local Bitcoiners. It's a podcast about Bitcoin meetups. Right? We just interview and talk to Bitcoin meetup organizers, talk about meetups, talk about the power of meetups. And, so this kind of lined up

36:44Rev Hodl us starting this podcast, Reid and I, my cohost, Reid, with this bear market. But ever since that podcast has been going on, maybe it's because I'm so involved in this region, the the the Chicagoland, Great Lakes, Michiana, Michigan region. Right? But a lot of people are listening to the podcast, and there's a a huge buzz going on right now. The meetups are good. People are showing up with, with items for to participate in the circular economy. In Chicago, they just launched and and this also coincided with the beginning of this podcast was, the Chicago Bitcoin Collective, which is a a dedicated Bitcoin space, fork and coin restaurant. They're gonna be doing bit devs there. They're gonna be doing meetups there. They're gonna be doing all this stuff. There's a huge buzz going on around that. And so

37:30Rev Hodl it's, very much the the bear market is for building vibes. Right? Everyone's just coming out of the woodwork and really participating right now, and the meetups have gotten really good, recently. Yeah. They're they're great.

37:44Rod Palmer Why why do you think there's such a difference, between the sentiment online and the sentiment that you're seeing in meetups? Where's the disconnect?

37:54Rev Hodl I think that so there are some people that come to the meetups and they wanna talk about number go up. Right? And and they're very concerned about the the quantum FUD, not because of the reality of the quantum FUD, right, that it could actually be dangerous for people losing their getting their Bitcoin sniped away from them from some weird quantum computer somewhere, but more about how the idea of this affects the price. And when you're participating in Bitcoin and you're earning Bitcoin and you're spending Bitcoin, the price doesn't really matter. Right? You you get Bitcoin in, Bitcoin goes out. The price might fluctuate a few percent in that exchange, but the the price isn't the important thing. It's the freedom and and it's the, the culture and the community and the ability to build resilience and build sovereignty,

38:39Rev Hodl to operate in a thermodynamically sound lifestyle. Right? And so that's where the meetups the the people like that are going to the meetups. The people who wanna live sovereign, they wanna up operate with good thermodynamics. You know? If you're just looking on, Twitter, you know, you're basically just looking for the next reason for the price to go up or down and make your decisions on that. That's my opinion. I don't really know, but, you know, that's what I think.

39:08Rod Palmer It's an interesting perspective. I mean, yeah. I don't know. It's it I I have been wondering this for a while. And, you know, I I talked to Avi Burra pretty frequently, and he says, he said Noster's even had kind of a bear market, which I I would have figured Noster would be more of a reflection of, you know, what's actually happening on the ground, but

39:38Rod Palmer maybe not so.

39:40Rev Hodl Well, so these are all just I mean, we we talk about the Bitcoin as a tool, no, sir, as a tool. But, you know, when it comes to the the actual meetups and you get together in per in person, you know these people, they're part of your life, it's not a tool anymore, man. It's a community asset. And so, this is the big difference is, like, when you actually take things into re into meet space in reality, there's a whole different, set of incentives

40:11Rev Hodl and a dynamic that goes on. And it I think it does reveal the truth, right, that, okay, price is down. Nobody's really chitchatting, gossiping about this or that, on these these socials.

40:26Rev Hodl But the group chats, still good. Right? And the meetups are still good. And that's where the signal is. You know? Podcast too. Right? That's has there been a bear market in podcasting? Hell no, dude. There's a new fucking podcast spinning up every day, about Bitcoin. So you gotta look at the the the real sovereign shit, like podcasting, uncensorable,

40:50Rev Hodl way to promote and propagate cultural capital. Bitcoin Meetups, real sovereign way, unstoppable way to promote and propagate cultural capital. Nostra, to a degree, is unstoppable, but it it's just, it's more nebulous than these than these two relationships that you have.

41:10Richard Greaser I wonder One of the things that I've been thinking about is crashing out. We talked about it a little bit, but there's really very few ways to prove

41:24Richard Greaser that you're not crashing out if everybody else is saying you're crashing out. If people were if there was like a crash out Sybil attack, right, and and all and all your followers everybody whether it's on Nost or on x and they said rev hodl is crashing out right now. And you're like, I'm not crashing out. I'm totally normal. Like, Mike Brock is going through this. Right? Everybody's calling if you don't know who Mike Brock is, he's on that tray. He was a former executive at Block under Jack Dorsey, and now he is, he he's an essayist. Irving's accusing him of crashing out and he had to start a podcast

42:01Richard Greaser to prove that he wasn't crashing out. Are there any other methods? Are there any other ways you can prove that you're not crashing out if everybody says you're crashing out other than start a podcast? Is there, like, a certain amount of social capital that you can have where people are like, well, he's got too much social capital to be crashing out. He's just esoteric or something like that, or eccentric.

42:26Richard Greaser Is it is it just you have to start a podcast?

42:30Rev Hodl I well, yeah. To to crash out is not, it's not up to you. Right? It your actions reveal if you're crashing out or not, and you could be in denial about it. I I actually had a I crashed out, dude, about a year ago.

42:48Rev Hodl And I was on I was super hard, like, just like, fuck. I could I can't stand it. Everyone's talking about doing shit. No one's actually doing shit. These. It's so hard. Like, this was when the meetups were the meetups did go so paper Bitcoin summer destroyed the meetups, basically. Everyone was talking about set of price talk. It was a it it was a now this it's okay to talk about micro strategy and all this shit. And people just stopped coming. The the vibe just, like, got killed by that, and I couldn't stand it. And I crashed out about it. And I had it got so bad that the Metrodol had, like, an intervention with me where they got on a call, and they, like, talked me off the ledge. You know? And so, you know, at the time, I didn't feel like I was crashing out. I was in denial about it, but I there was no way for me to prove that to them that I was it was a a real serious like, you know, it wasn't a crash out.

43:37Rev Hodl And so, yeah, your your crash out is it's not up to you. It's a it's up to how the you the people that you're talking to perceive your actions.

43:47Richard Greaser So there's no there's no, like, sovereign crash outs at this point. Like, a a crash out is like a network effect phenomenon.

43:57Rev Hodl I'd say so. Yeah.

43:60Rod Palmer So from your experience of having a crash out, it sounds like you you had people around you that helped you pull out of it. You know, there's a lot of people on the verge of crashing out. There's a lot of people that are crashing out right now. What words of advice do you have for those crashing out?

44:19Rev Hodl You gotta go to the to the group chats. You gotta go to the meetup. You gotta talk to the people you know. And, you gotta you gotta just basically confirm that it's gonna be alright, you know, that this is just a moment in time.

44:36Rev Hodl The the volatility is everywhere. There's volatility in Bitcoin. There's volatility in nature, and sometimes the volatility does not swing in your direction. And don't worry. Zoom out. Right?

44:49Rev Hodl Over enough long enough time horizon, if you lower your time preference, things will will hit will swing your way again.

44:57Rod Palmer As a, you know, experienced meetup organizer, you you kinda talked about the disruption of the paper Bitcoiners showing up and wanting to talk about their, you know, paper Bitcoins being problematic to the meetup structure and and organization, you know, impacting

45:17Rod Palmer members from from coming people, you know, not being interested, you know, participating anymore. You know, for individuals that are problematic, what are some strategies that you've learned at at handling them? Do you, like, torn feather them in the in the town square for talking about paper Bitcoin? Or, you know, what what are, like, the the strategies to prevent disruptive, unhelpful behavior in the meetup?

45:44Rev Hodl Well, this is you can you can take permaculture once again and and apply this to the that kind of behavior. And so first, you start off by observing and and interacting with the person. Right? The sec the next step is to accept, self regulate, accept, and apply the feedback that that person is giving to you. And then from there, you're able to take a small and slow solution in order to

46:07Rev Hodl turn this into in permaculture, we have a saying that's called the problem is the solution. Right? So how do you take this this person that's kind of, disrupting the the vibe of the meetup and and running away with the meetup with this price talk and and this paper Bitcoin bullshit and and turn it into an educational experience for everybody else to, and you have to do it gracefully. Right? Because you the reason why people come to the meetups is is to learn and and to participate. If you're at the meetup, you're trying to participate. There's no reason to to just,

46:37Rev Hodl poo poo someone and and push them out and exclude them. The purity testing is definitely not valuable in meetup culture. Right? There's you don't need to pass all the purity tests. So you just have to find a way to make the problem a solution and and turn it into a a a talk about privacy or a talk about, self, holding your coins, like,

47:06Rev Hodl cold storage. Right? These these kinds of things.

47:08Rod Palmer So so, like, if they're talking about paper Bitcoin on g u, you you try to change the subject into paper Bitcoin privacy strategies?

47:18Rev Hodl Or what do you what do you mean? Yeah. Like, how how are you gonna quest you ask them questions. Right? Like, how are you how are you maintaining your privacy with your paper Bitcoin? Right? Like, how are you how are you, self self custodying your paper Bitcoin? And, that leads to a lot of people that are doing that to think a little bit deeper about how their strategies are to improve that.

47:40Richard Greaser Makes sense. Interesting. Shifting the conversation to a new topic here, kind of off off kilter. The United States just launched,

47:53Richard Greaser a manned crew into outer space, like, a half hour ago, and it's going to be the first, the first crew to fly around the moon in decades. Question for you, do you believe this is real? I mean, a, they did it on April Fool's Day, which could be a coincidence.

48:12Richard Greaser It could be part of the clues that they leave to let us know that it's not real. And b, any video that they quote unquote, like, you know, broadcast back to The United States for us to watch on our screens could be AI slop. There's no way for us to know that the pictures and the video that they're gonna be sending from their flight around the moon in the next few days is real or AI slop.

48:37Richard Greaser But I'm just curious, like, what is your reaction to that we're going around the moon again? And it's gonna be the first woman to fly around the moon. She's on board. Doctor Richard Harambe just tweeted that there's a Canadian astronaut on board, a man, which means it's basically two women. So there's basically two women flying around the moon for the first time. Is this real or fake?

48:59Rev Hodl Well, I hope it's real because I wanna see the pictures of the other side of the moon, the dark side of the moon, the side of the moon that's, so I don't know if you guys know this, but on the on the dark side of the moon, there's a whole civilization of people that are, like, forty feet tall, and they're all hot. And, like, dude, I wanna see I don't think why would you need clothes on the moon? So, like, I wanna see the pictures of these these forty foot tall women and their tits out. Right? Like, that would be fucking amazing. And so as soon as those pictures come out, I'll know it's real. Until then, I think that it's probably bullshit.

49:31Richard Greaser Should we have an a Maxi Madness tournament for the hot naked aliens on the men?

49:37Rev Hodl They're not aliens, man. They're just people they're just people like us that are just forty feet tall. They're not even aliens. They're just, you know, I mean That's it. I'm glad that you brought that up because it

49:47Richard Greaser this sort of off topic again here, but similar. When they talk about aliens being real and there being alien technology, yada yada, What does that mean because it kind of depends on your definition

50:02Richard Greaser of alien? So how if if somebody were to say to you, Rev Hoddle, come come out from picking your your your gooseberries, on your homestead and come look at the TV right now because aliens

50:17Richard Greaser are are being introduced by the president. What does it what does that mean? Are aliens from a different planet? Are they a different life form instead of this carbon based life form like us? Are they is it is it something mental or spiritual that makes an alien? What is if aliens exist, let's just say the aliens exist.

50:40Richard Greaser What does that mean? What is an alien versus a human?

50:43Rev Hodl Well, there's a whole lot of different kinds of aliens, in my opinion. And this comes down to, like, the way I think that the universe works. It's all vibration. Right? Everything is connected, and there's there's a a vibrational force creating volatility, creating entropy throughout the universe. And so I'm sure you guys have seen these,

51:05Rev Hodl these videos of, you know, you put a plate on top of a speaker and you sprinkle some sand on it, and you play the different tones, and the the the sand takes up all these different shapes. And so the vibration of the universe forces form. And so the human form is it is dictated by the vibrations of the universe. And so that means that there are aliens out there that are from outside the Earth that are people just like us because the that's the only way that the vibration of the universe can only create human. Right? It it and so then there's also the the etheric

51:38Rev Hodl form of alien. Right? Where these these transdimensional people or or beings or entities, you could say, manifest. And so that's kind of like the glitch in the matrix, type of experience.

51:52Rev Hodl So there can be many different kinds of aliens, but I think the aliens that people talk about the most are just people from somewhere else, and I think they exist, personally.

52:02Rod Palmer Do you think any of them are on Noster?

52:06Rev Hodl Well, they should be. And that's what I'm like, you know, that's what I think. Like, you know, if the aliens come, I wanna have enough social capital and enough proof, with my signatures, right, of these notes that I've signed and these Bitcoin Bitcoin transactions that I made. Right? It's a public ledger. This is actually beneficial to us because when the aliens show up, they can see who the fuck's been participating in Bitcoin and Gnoster and who's not. And they're gonna wanna come talk to me because I'm on the frontier here as a pioneer. I'm trying to push the world forward into a positive place. The aliens will know this, and they'll the new politicians, right, are gonna be the people not talking with aliens because of the reptilian bullshit fucking center of the earth stuff. I'm gonna be working with the the Pleiadians, right, who are coming with their beautiful blonde hair and their their,

52:53Rev Hodl voluptuous forms, and they're gonna wanna talk to me and not the people who are, basically Fiat. Right? Just the Fiat system shit is is over. Right?

53:05Rod Palmer Playdians are pretty hot.

53:09Richard Greaser Did can aliens crash out?

53:12Rev Hodl Of course. Of course. So we're all subject to the same thing. That. Okay. The same We're subject to the same vibrations of the of the universe. Right? So you so So you think that

53:24Richard Greaser that crash outs are a vibrational phenomenon and Maxi Madness was a

53:33Richard Greaser vibration shift on the protocol that people were not prepared to handle. It it it the vibes the vibes freaked them out.

53:48Rev Hodl Well, so oh, alright. You can think about it like this. Right? When you when you drop a a a stone into a still piece a a still pool, the ripples go out. But it when the ripple ripples reach the end of the pool, they reflect back. And so this creates when the ripples start to intersect, now this creates distortion and feedback.

54:09Rev Hodl And so in the sense of Maxi Madness, right, that was the stone being dropped into the the Pool Of Noester, which created ripples. And as soon as the ripples bounced to the edge of the pool and started coming back, now the distortion comes. And that feels uncomfortable. Right? You went from looking at a very pleasing, waveform into something that turned into chaotic, noise. Right? And

54:33Rev Hodl that if you wanna pull the signal out of the noise, now you've gotta put in some proof of work to determine what to do here. That's uncomfortable.

54:42Rod Palmer What do you think the odds that Noah Gruum is a Pleiadian is?

54:47Rev Hodl Well, I believe in this idea of, soul groups and and that there are soul groups that, have ties to other extraterrestrial communities. And so, I mean, judging by the way she looks, man, she could definitely be a part of that Palladian soul group and be here for a purpose. You know? Her her soul may have manifested

55:10Rev Hodl on Earth at the time that she did to, you know, push Bitcoin forward to to because I think there needs to be more music. We this decent Demu, the d decentralized music culture is really growing on Nostril, and I think it's really important. And the fact that she's putting so much work in participating in that, doing the Zap streams and all the stuff,

55:34Rev Hodl suggests to me that, yeah, it's very likely that she is from this this more benevolent, soul group outside the Earth.

55:44Rod Palmer I kind of agree. Yeah. I think there's a good chance these are playing in for sure. Well, yeah, looking at wrapping this up, I mean, what what do you see for the rest of 2026? What's got you excited? Are you thinking about your strategy next year in maxi madness?

56:07Rod Palmer Are you thinking that far ahead? I mean, what what's real important to you right now? What's really important on your highs and the head? What are you excited about?

56:18Rev Hodl Well, I think that the most important thing for me is just gonna be continuing to the winning the Maxi Madness was a signal to me that I'm representing what Nostril culture, appreciates, what local Bitcoin culture appreciates, and that

56:35Rev Hodl people need to, if the number is not gonna go up right, if we're in a bear market, you have to hyper Bitcoin as your own life. You have to figure out ways to interact with your local Bitcoin community and lean into that and get get the freedom go up. Right? Increase the the utility that the Bitcoin affords you to up to build shit and access freedom.

56:58Rev Hodl And when we when we do that, then when the price starts to go up, we're that much more powerful, we're that much more connected, and we're that much more ready for when the alien show up for them to come talk to us instead of the the reptilian, politicians. Right?

57:14Rod Palmer Absolutely. Well, Carl, I gotta say, you you are a true first turning, pioneer. One of the few out there. Majority of people out there, they're still living in the four turning, crashing out. You got a very different perspective.

57:33Rod Palmer We'll have to do this again sometime.

57:37Rev Hodl Yeah. I'd be happy to. You know? There's there's a lot going on. In the in the meetup culture here locally, we got a lot of pioneers. Otis Bittmeyer roasting his coffee. The the group the the people in the Masjid Al Man, like you mentioned, Avi, he's got how many different podcasts going on. Fundamentals, how many different podcasts does he have going on. There there are we we are

58:01Rev Hodl a a group of people who are recognizing that the frontier is we're on the frontier, and it's up to us to decide now that we're gonna make the first journey happen happen. We're doing it. We're building our way into the,

58:18Rev Hodl you know, strong men make good times.

58:22Rod Palmer Absolutely. Well, go through plug all the meetups that you're part of and and events that you're gonna be part of that, you know, Lake Satoshi is coming up in Michigan.

58:34Rev Hodl Yeah. You can't miss Lake Satoshi. That's the the first weekend in August, I believe. I'm not sure about this, but I think it's Saturday, August 2 is, like, the the main day. I could be wrong. But first weekend in August. But, you know, in Michigan, there's the Southwest Michigan Meetup. That's where you'll see all of this homesteader, really good circular economy around food. Then there's the Grand Rapids meetup, which has two meetups. Right? There's the the educational meetup at,

59:06Rev Hodl the factory, and then there's the social meetup, which is at Two Guys Brewing. And beyond that, I run the South Bend, Indiana meetup. I go to the Chicago BitDevs meetup. There's a meetup in Elmhurst, Illinois, that I go to as well, the Western Suburbs of of Chicago. I go to the the Mid Michigan meetup in Lansing. There's there's a lot of I I have to say that, you know, the Indianapolis Meetup is really good. The Cleveland meetup is really good. Those are a little outside my range. I might, I I've only been to the Indianapolis Meetup once, but you get the idea. There's there's a meetup for you

59:42Rev Hodl out there. Right? And if you don't, have a meetup near you, if you can't find one, you should start one.

59:49Rod Palmer Well said. I've been seeing some chatter in the, the Messerdell chat. It sounds like Jackie is gonna bring some, orange paint to Lake Satoshi this year to paint the lawn orange. Or will you be partaking in that? Do some rallying with Jackie?

1:00:10Rev Hodl You know, if if Jackie's on board and he's he's got the paint, you gotta build that social capital, man, and and participate. Right? So I'm in.

1:00:20Rod Palmer Rod, are you in? You're gonna paint the lawn orange with us? I know I'm in.

1:00:25Richard Greaser Paint the town orange. Paint all orange.

1:00:29Rod Palmer Rod, you got any closing, questions before we, wrap this one up?

1:00:35Richard Greaser You said you've been to the Cleveland Bitcoin Meetup?

1:00:39Rev Hodl I have not been to Cleveland, but I'm I'm pretty, close with the the the Cleveland organizers. And they they bring a huge crew to Lake Satoshi every year, so I know,

1:00:49Richard Greaser the Cleveland group. I'm in their group chats and all that stuff. I have to I'll have to bring see if they can bring Philip of Macedonia to Lake Satoshia this year. Love to love to meet him in person. He could maybe do a performance, a a rap performance, but, he's a big he's a big listener to the the Paws Jazz. He's not very happy with us right now. He's not happy with the bracket for Maxi Madness,

1:01:14Richard Greaser but I think that, it'd be great it'd be great to hang out in the late Satoshi. I bet you you would love painting the lawn rug or the orange.

1:01:24Rev Hodl Yeah. Phil, if if you come to, Lake Satoshi, you're gonna have a good time. You should do it.

1:01:30Richard Greaser Where are all your medals? Where are all your medals from, grade school. Those are fucking incredible swag. Yeah. Just shout out to Philip.

1:01:42Rod Palmer Shout out to Philip indeed. Rev Huddle, thank you for coming on. This has been a pleasure. I appreciate it.

1:01:49Rev Hodl Hey. You know what? I I'm really happy that you guys chose to, get Maxi Madness over to Noester. I do think that it is important. This is important. As much as people like to think that this is all, just fun and games, There's more to it than that. And the only way you know that is if you listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast per week and that you listen to the bugle and you understand

1:02:13Rev Hodl the, the message that you guys are putting out.

1:02:18Rod Palmer Well, thank you, Rev Hoddle. Folks, go get Rev Hoddle a, follow on Oster. If you're not following him yet, I don't know what what's wrong with you. You should reconsider your life decisions. But, people's champ. It's been a great rip. Folks, we'll see you on another episode of intellectual soap road soon.

1:02:43Unknown Trying to stay calm, but I can feel it. Don't crash out. Don't crash out. That's what I keep telling myself now.

1:02:55Unknown Whole world watching zoomed in close. Went wrong post and it's over. I know. Don't crash out. Don't crash out. But they love when you lose control. Now everybody say stay chill. Chill out loud, but they really wanna see you crash out.

1:03:16Unknown Politics turn into common fights. Everyone's swinging for

1:03:32Rev Hodl screenshot every little thought you try to breathe, you try to pause, they spam, say more they want it raw.

1:03:38Unknown Don't crush out. Don't crush out. Don't crush out. That's what I keep telling myself now. Whole world watching. Zoom getting close.

1:04:27Unknown Away, but the noise still echoes anyway. Don't crash out. Don't crash out. That's what I keep telling myself now. Whole world watching. Swooned in close.

1:04:55Unknown They really wanna see you crash out. Maybe it's me, maybe it's us, maybe we all just feel too much. Too many eyes, too many takes, too many chances for one mistake to become, but the time line shakes. Every second is a higher stay. Stay cool, stay cool. Don't lose it. Don't give them what they came

1:05:21Unknown for.