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Transcript: Telling Compelling Stories With Avi Burra | Intellectual Silk Road Episode 3
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diff --git a/wiki/transcripts/telling-compelling-stories-with-avi-burra-intellectual-silk-road-episode-3.md b/wiki/transcripts/telling-compelling-stories-with-avi-burra-intellectual-silk-road-episode-3.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..b8caf489 @@ -0,0 +1,589 @@ +--- +title: "Transcript: Telling Compelling Stories With Avi Burra | Intellectual Silk Road Episode 3" +type: transcript +episode: telling-compelling-stories-with-avi-burra-intellectual-silk-road-episode-3 +generated: true +date: 2025-12-10 +audio: "https://feeds.fountain.fm/R8scBF2Wiykm0YVldsHQ/items/zd4irf3MsgUylZwUMQ2X/files/AUDIO---DEFAULT---20af2e06-c2ff-433d-be89-4b8af8fb480a.mp3" +duration: "1:32:35" +sources: + - raw/episodes/telling-compelling-stories-with-avi-burra-intellectual-silk-road-episode-3/bundle.json +--- + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-0">0:00</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-0" data-t="0">Folks, we have a special show today.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5" data-t="5">This is an intellectual Silk Road episode. Rod Palmer still out of commission, but he will be back soon.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-11" data-t="11">Today, joining me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-13" data-t="13">is Avi Burra of the Plug Chain Radio podcast. Plug Chain Radio, I think, was the second podcast I ever went on</span> <span class="cue" id="t-22" data-t="22">after starting the bugle.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-24" data-t="24">They have been some of the biggest supporter</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-27">0:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-27" data-t="27">supporters of our show,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-29" data-t="29">of our of the bugle in general.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-31" data-t="31">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-33" data-t="33">I'm a huge fan</span> <span class="cue" id="t-36" data-t="36">of the stuff that Avi is doing. I'm excited to get into this.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-41" data-t="41">Avi, what do you what do you got going on? How are you doing tonight?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-45">0:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-45" data-t="45">I'm doing well and happy to be here, mister Griese.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-49" data-t="49">Big fan of The Bugle. I might have been one of the first listeners</span> <span class="cue" id="t-52" data-t="52">of The Bugle podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-54" data-t="54">Definitely one of the first boosters,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-57" data-t="57">if I if I'm not mistaken. I I remember listening to your first episode,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-62" data-t="62">and,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-63">1:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-63" data-t="63">you have this intro with Joe Rogan and Morgan Freeman and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-67" data-t="67">all all these others. And I and I thought that was one of the best</span> <span class="cue" id="t-70" data-t="70">podcast intros,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-72" data-t="72">I'd heard. I mean, now you've been doing it for so long that it's you you people can't expect it. But at that time, in in the first Beagle episode, when when you had that three or four minute long intro with all of these voices, it was,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-85" data-t="85">yeah,</span> <span class="cue" data-t="85">it was quite something. So, yes,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-87">1:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-87" data-t="87">big fan of the show. And, yeah, what so you asked what have I got going on? I have a few things going on. Blockchain Radio, as you mentioned,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-96" data-t="96">it's</span> <span class="cue" data-t="96">a weekly ongoing podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-100" data-t="100">We we stream live on Nostra, and then it's up on fountain and other podcasting platforms.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-107" data-t="107">The next day,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-108" data-t="108">I also have a travel show called Finding Home, and this is video.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-114">1:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-114" data-t="114">And it's it's sort of Anthony Bourdain inspired. I travel the world, talk to Bitcoiners.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-122" data-t="122">Preferably not about Bitcoin, but more about the lives they're leading, how they're finding home in a new land,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-129" data-t="129">and, we try to eat delicious food, walk around the town, talk about the architecture, and so on. And Bitcoin does creep in,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-137" data-t="137">somehow. But, yeah, that's I have that going on. Two officially released episodes.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-142" data-t="142">Third one,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-144" data-t="144">in postproduction,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-145">2:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-145" data-t="145">should be out in about a month.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-147" data-t="147">And the fourth one was just recorded,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-149" data-t="149">in</span> <span class="cue" id="t-151" data-t="151">in The UK. So that'll be out sometime in March.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-154" data-t="154">And then the other thing I have going on is, I'm also an author. I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-159" data-t="159">write fiction,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-161">2:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-161" data-t="161">surrealist,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-163" data-t="163">magic realist,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-165" data-t="165">mystery thrillers, whatever you wanna call them, with Bitcoin as a fairly core theme. I've just released my second novel. It's called July 18. It's the sequel to my first one</span> <span class="cue" id="t-175" data-t="175">twenty four, which I released in</span> <span class="cue" id="t-178" data-t="178">2023.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-180" data-t="180">So, yeah, I have that going on, and then I'm tinkering. I'm also a technologist, so I'm tinkering around with some web of trust stuff</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-186">3:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-186" data-t="186">on Nostra.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-188" data-t="188">I have a company</span> <span class="cue" id="t-189" data-t="189">I cofounded called Nostfabrica.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-193">3:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-193" data-t="193">Very cool. Yeah. I'm looking on the Indie Hub right now. I only see episode two. I didn't watch episode one yet. I saw the episode two. It should be there on IndieHub.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-204" data-t="204">I will find it eventually.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-207" data-t="207">But, yeah, I I thought that was good. It is a cool travel show. It's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-213" data-t="213">better than the stuff that the the trash that they're putting out PBS,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-216" data-t="216">I would say.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-217" data-t="217">I think you have a bright career ahead of you</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-220">3:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-220" data-t="220">in regards to travel.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-223" data-t="223">I've been meaning to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-226" data-t="226">read your books,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-227" data-t="227">and I have not gotten around to it. I feel real bad about that.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-231">3:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-231" data-t="231">They're big books. It takes time.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-235" data-t="235">These are not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-236" data-t="236">quick reads.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-238">3:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-238" data-t="238">Do you have the audiobook out yet?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-242">4:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-242" data-t="242">No.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-243" data-t="243">I don't. And that that is a project in and of itself.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-247" data-t="247">First of all, like I said, they're long books. So the first one is about a 150,000</span> <span class="cue" id="t-251" data-t="251">words.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-252" data-t="252">The sequel, July 18, which I just released, is about a 180,000</span> <span class="cue" id="t-256" data-t="256">words. So it's a solid,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-259">4:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-259" data-t="259">maybe twenty hour commitment,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-263" data-t="263">to to record each one.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-266" data-t="266">The other thing is, which I haven't fully figured out is because they're books of fiction</span> <span class="cue" id="t-271" data-t="271">and they're multiple voices.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-274" data-t="274">I've maybe it's just a matter of sitting down and doing it and seeing what it'll what it sounds like, but</span> <span class="cue" id="t-280" data-t="280">because they're multiple voices, I and some male, some female, I I just don't know how to even begin. Right? Do I just read in in a monotone</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-288">4:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-288" data-t="288">all of these voices, or do I change the cadence? Do I change the pitch?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-294" data-t="294">Yeah. So lot lot of things to juggle. But at some point, there will be audiobooks. Yes.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-300">4:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-300" data-t="300">Yeah. I think you just gotta do impressions. You know what I mean? Like, the the really good audiobook,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-306" data-t="306">readers, they do impressions.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-308" data-t="308">I'm curious, like, you know, how would you do, like, a a hot girl impression</span> <span class="cue" id="t-313" data-t="313">of her voice versus a not hot girl?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-318" data-t="318">Oh,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-320">5:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-320" data-t="320">I don't know, actually.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-323" data-t="323">Maybe just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-324" data-t="324">make it more</span> <span class="cue" id="t-326" data-t="326">the hot girl impression would be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-328" data-t="328">more breathy, I suppose,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-331" data-t="331">husky huskier voice,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-333">5:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-333" data-t="333">but, obviously, I'd have to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-336" data-t="336">higher the pitch.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-338" data-t="338">I'm I'm not particularly good at,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-340" data-t="340">impressions,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-341" data-t="341">Richard, so I'd probably end end up completely botching it and and offending people in the process.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-348">5:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-348" data-t="348">Well, it's impossible not to offend people.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-350" data-t="350">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-351" data-t="351">yeah. I mean, I think it'd be interesting, like, you what you could even do is, you know, for the hot ones, you could have, like, a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-357" data-t="357">a Lynn Alden</span> <span class="cue" id="t-359" data-t="359">impression</span> <span class="cue" id="t-360" data-t="360">or, like, a a cloned voice.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-363">6:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-363" data-t="363">And then,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-364" data-t="364">for the not hot ones, you could do an e frat.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-367" data-t="367">What what's her name? Ferguson or Focusing?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-373">6:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-373" data-t="373">Yeah. Look. I I think you just gave me an idea, actually,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-376" data-t="376">which is there is eleven Labs, which is really good for AI generated voices.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-384" data-t="384">That might be something to look into, actually.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-387" data-t="387">The I could pick do it on Eleven Labs, and then I could just do the narrator voice.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-393" data-t="393">You might have solved my problem there, Richard.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-397">6:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-397" data-t="397">Yeah. I think I think, like, having the hot girls be Lynn Alden or Gloria Zhao,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-403" data-t="403">and the not hot ones be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-405" data-t="405">Efret,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-406" data-t="406">Fenixson, and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-408" data-t="408">Michelle Weekley would be,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-412" data-t="412">that'd be great.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-414">6:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-414" data-t="414">I'd listen to that. And then you all the male voices could be you, and then you could tap QW probably for some of it.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-423">7:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-423" data-t="423">Sure. Or I could just use ElevenLabs.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-428">7:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-428" data-t="428">Well, you could clone your voice and KeyW voice. You can clone anybody's voice that you want it.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-434">7:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-434" data-t="434">Right.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-435" data-t="435">Have you actually, have you used ElevenLabs? So I I did a podcast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-440" data-t="440">of a brief experiment where I was,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-442" data-t="442">talking to Claude,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-444" data-t="444">and I had Claude's pro</span> <span class="cue" id="t-448" data-t="448">so my voice would turn into a text prompt, which should go to the Claude API.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-452">7:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-452" data-t="452">And then cloud's responses</span> <span class="cue" id="t-454" data-t="454">would go to the Eleven Labs API,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-457" data-t="457">which would and for each episode, I'd use a different voice,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-461" data-t="461">for the character. So it was basically performance art using AI.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-465" data-t="465">I tried</span> <span class="cue" id="t-466" data-t="466">there was one episode where I really wanted</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-469">7:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-469" data-t="469">Volodymyr Zelensky's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-471" data-t="471">voice,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-472" data-t="472">so I found a video of his or audio of his rather.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-476" data-t="476">And I played it into ElevenLabs cloning, and it did not allow me to clone his voice.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-482" data-t="482">Basically, what it does is it it it does the the initial training,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-487" data-t="487">and then it says, okay. Now I will generate a sentence, and you need to tell you need to speak the the sentence in the same voice.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-495">8:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-495" data-t="495">And, obviously, I couldn't.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-497" data-t="497">So maybe there are some open source,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-500" data-t="500">voice cloning tools out there, but the standard ones have pretty strict controls out there.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-506">8:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-506" data-t="506">Well, just for the CIA assets.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-509" data-t="509">They they protect those ones.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-512">8:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-512" data-t="512">Fair enough.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-513">8:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-513" data-t="513">Those are like they got Zelensky flag. They're like, yeah. This guy, we can't have anybody saying</span> <span class="cue" id="t-520" data-t="520">cloning his voice, but, you know, any</span> <span class="cue" id="t-523" data-t="523">Joe Schmo out there. I guess that's, like, a good way that's a great way to to tell if somebody's a spook or not. You just put them into the 11 labs</span> <span class="cue" id="t-531" data-t="531">and figure out if it lets you clone their voice or not.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-534" data-t="534">Should test Good point. Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-539" data-t="539">Well, what what does the writing process look like for you?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-543">9:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-543" data-t="543">Those are some pretty lengthy books.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-545" data-t="545">How do you organize it? Do you use any sort of specific software?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-550" data-t="550">I mean, I'm in the middle of a few books. I just keep on,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-553" data-t="553">getting distracted with other projects.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-557">9:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-557" data-t="557">I would think fiction is a little different from nonfiction.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-562" data-t="562">I have you know, when I start the story,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-565" data-t="565">I have a general sense of what's gonna happen,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-569" data-t="569">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-570" data-t="570">very broad strokes,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-573" data-t="573">plot. And then</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-575">9:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-575" data-t="575">I start writing it. And in in both books, this this is what happened. I'd I'd write something,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-581" data-t="581">you know, I I definitely have one one chapter planned out. Right? And that the way I do it is I break a chapter up into scenes and each scene up,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-589" data-t="589">by beats. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-591" data-t="591">Little stages within each scene.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-594" data-t="594">By the time I finish writing one scene, it's easy to plan one scene out. Right? If there's five or six beats,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-600" data-t="600">I don't know. Scene can be a thousand words, which is about three pages, maybe two</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-605">10:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-605" data-t="605">double that. So it's easy to think that far ahead. What and and I plan that out. I I write out the scene,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-611" data-t="611">and within that, that might trigger some a new thought, something that I hadn't thought about, a new idea. So that that then flows into the next scene. I I'm able to structure that and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-622" data-t="622">or modify what the initial idea idea I had there. So for both of these books, the story,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-628" data-t="628">while I when I started it, I had a general sense of what I was gonna write. It changed</span> <span class="cue" id="t-635" data-t="635">constantly</span> <span class="cue" id="t-636" data-t="636">as I was writing it.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-638">10:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-638" data-t="638">Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-639" data-t="639">Was that pretty painful?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-643" data-t="643">Were you having to go back and rewrite things pretty frequently? Or</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-648">10:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-648" data-t="648">Not that much.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-649" data-t="649">I had to do two or three rewrites,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-652" data-t="652">because the plot lines are pretty intricate. And when I change something</span> <span class="cue" id="t-657" data-t="657">when I wanted a certain outcome,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-658" data-t="658">you know, in chart let's say, chapter 10,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-661" data-t="661">I needed to go back to chapter four and change something so that it would line up with that. But it it wasn't a lot of that.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-668">11:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-668" data-t="668">So the first book I wrote, I had zero AI help, in so that that was '24.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-674" data-t="674">I wrote that in 2023. In fact, the so ChartGPT was in its very early days then.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-680" data-t="680">I wrote most of the book in 2022 and and early twenty twenty three.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-685" data-t="685">And the only time I used ChartGPT is where I needed some German text, So I needed something to be translated in German. That's what I used it for.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-693" data-t="693">I think for for July 18,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-696" data-t="696">I used I actually mostly used Gemini</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-699">11:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-699" data-t="699">for line and copy editing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-702" data-t="702">for the first pass. So what I'd write a page or or I'd write a scene. I'd put it into,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-708" data-t="708">into Gemini, and I'd say, hey. Give me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-710" data-t="710">find all the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-712" data-t="712">issues, syntax,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-713" data-t="713">whatever, and and it would flag a few things. And I'd say, okay. Are there any phrases that I can</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-718">11:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-718" data-t="718">this is the idea in in this line that I was trying to convey.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-722" data-t="722">Can I reframe it? Is or is it coming across? And it would have most of the time, I I didn't directly take the AI suggestions.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-730" data-t="730">But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-731" data-t="731">a lot of times, it would give me an idea which I would then take and put my own tweak on. It's something that I might not have thought about. So July 18 was a very interesting process, sort of interactive with AI, write something, put it into AI,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-743" data-t="743">AI comes back with something that triggers another thought that helps me,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-748" data-t="748">tweak something.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-749">12:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-749" data-t="749">So, no, it wasn't frustrating at all.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-752" data-t="752">And what so the difference between 24, the first novel, and July 18 is when I then put it in the hands</span> <span class="cue" id="t-759" data-t="759">of the human editor,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-761" data-t="761">24 took forever because there were all sorts of mistakes in it and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-766" data-t="766">syntax errors, you know, like putting the comma outside the quote instead of rather than inside the quote. You know, those kinds of basic things,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-775" data-t="775">those errors were 99.9%</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-777">12:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-777" data-t="777">eliminated</span> <span class="cue" id="t-778" data-t="778">with July 18 because the AI just cleaned all of that stuff up.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-784">13:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-784" data-t="784">Well, I imagine one of the great things about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-787" data-t="787">the type of audience that's reading your book is in the early runs of it is pretty easy to to get grammar Nazis to go in and correct any</span> <span class="cue" id="t-796" data-t="796">errors that the editor missed. Do you know you know how big white people are? Yep.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-802" data-t="802">So, yeah, what what are the ideas that you're trying to communicate in the book or in the books?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-810">13:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-810" data-t="810">I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-811" data-t="811">broadly. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-813" data-t="813">As a Bitcoiner, I believe that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-818" data-t="818">this movement or whatever you want to call this revolution</span> <span class="cue" id="t-822" data-t="822">is only going to be successful with maximal adoption.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-826" data-t="826">So how do we get</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-828">13:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-828" data-t="828">as many people into the fold and into</span> <span class="cue" id="t-831" data-t="831">into understanding Bitcoin and using it as money?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-836" data-t="836">You can certainly lecture them about distributed systems</span> <span class="cue" id="t-839" data-t="839">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-841" data-t="841">about Austrian economics and so on. And that yeah. I'm sure that has an audience,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-846" data-t="846">but I think that's it's a very limited audience that's swayed by those types</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-850">14:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-850" data-t="850">of pedantic academic,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-853" data-t="853">arguments.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-854" data-t="854">I think the vast majority of adoption is gonna happen through stories.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-859" data-t="859">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-861" data-t="861">so that really is the idea to talk really tell very human stories, stories that I want to tell, first of all. Right? It's a this the both books are about a young man grappling with the unexpected death of his father and, you know, stumbling onto a a secret and learning things about his father that he didn't know while his father was alive and in the process discovering something about himself.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-882" data-t="882">But Bitcoin is very much a part of it as a as an underlying theme.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-887">14:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-887" data-t="887">So the idea is that, you know, people reading it connect with that human story.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-893" data-t="893">And then in the process,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-895" data-t="895">you know, because Bitcoin is just so omnipresent, they say, what is this thing? Maybe this is I should look into this. Right? And this is the idea behind my show as well, Finding Home. Right? It's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-905" data-t="905">tell tell inspiring</span> <span class="cue" id="t-907" data-t="907">stories of people doing amazing things, of pioneers,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-910" data-t="910">building things in a in a new land. And then there's there's food and, you know, there's architecture, there's fun conversations, and then becomes just there in in the background. And, you know, that's how I think,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-922">15:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-922" data-t="922">we drive maximal adoption is is through stories, is through film, is through art,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-928" data-t="928">through music and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-931" data-t="931">other cultural media.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-935">15:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-935" data-t="935">Absolutely.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-937" data-t="937">I'm very I've I mean, these are ideas that I've I've been trying to propagate as well.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-943" data-t="943">Because I think the storytelling</span> <span class="cue" id="t-945" data-t="945">is,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-947" data-t="947">has been historically pretty shallow.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-951" data-t="951">There there's some there's some shining examples</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-956">15:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-956" data-t="956">of individuals who are compelling storytellers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-960" data-t="960">Mhmm. But a a good story this is why I like Atlas Shrugged so much is because it is it's a very compelling story. It's a compelling story talking about human</span> <span class="cue" id="t-972" data-t="972">dignity</span> <span class="cue" id="t-973" data-t="973">and, like, you know, individuals are, like, really reclaiming,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-977" data-t="977">a sense of self and and purpose or or just maintaining a sense of self and purpose in a world that just does</span> <span class="cue" id="t-984" data-t="984">it it actually despises people</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-986">16:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-986" data-t="986">that have a sense of self and purpose</span> <span class="cue" id="t-989" data-t="989">and are willing to use their minds. And I I think that's such a relevant and compelling story</span> <span class="cue" id="t-995" data-t="995">in our age,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-997" data-t="997">that we find ourselves in.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-999" data-t="999">And I think it's wonderful that you're doing that.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1004">16:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1004" data-t="1004">And I think there is so much nihilism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1006" data-t="1006">and so much doomerism in the world today, especially I mean, when, Anwaran wrote, Attish Shrugged,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1012" data-t="1012">I I don't think it could have been as bad as as it is right now. Like, we're in late stage modernism where, you know, throwing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1021" data-t="1021">destroying priceless works of art is considered a a major statement. Right? Are the people throwing soup on on these magnificent paintings to because climate change or whatever. Right? So we are in in such deep nihilistic territory</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1035" data-t="1035">that to have stories that are soaring about about the human spirit, the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1041" data-t="1041">aspirational</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1042">17:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1042" data-t="1042">that create hope,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1044" data-t="1044">I think is is critically important. And, you know, again,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1048" data-t="1048">Ayn Rand obviously wrote</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1050" data-t="1050">her her books, both the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged in during a time where things might not have been as bleak,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1057" data-t="1057">but they still were</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1058" data-t="1058">soaring epics, right, of people try like you said, reclaiming their sovereignty, finding hope despite</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1065">17:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1065" data-t="1065">all the trials and tribulations they have to go through in the process.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1070">17:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1070" data-t="1070">Absolutely.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1071" data-t="1071">Yeah. I mean, it it was a really interesting time in history.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1078" data-t="1078">The fountain head was written</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1081" data-t="1081">well, she was just started writing it in 1938,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1084" data-t="1084">published it in 1943,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1086" data-t="1086">and Atlas Shrugged right after it, 1946</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1091">18:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1091" data-t="1091">is when she started writing it. So it took her eleven years to write Atlas Shrugged, so she published it in 1957.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1100">18:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1100" data-t="1100">That was an interesting time in history. I mean, that right around World War two,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1106" data-t="1106">right few years after the Great Depression. Was she in New York? I I can't remember. Where was she?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1112">18:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1112" data-t="1112">I think she lived around a little bit. Like, she was in LA for a little bit because she was trying to be an actress.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1118" data-t="1118">Mhmm. But I do think she spent some time in New York. Yeah. Right.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1124">18:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1124" data-t="1124">You know, it was a few years after the Great Depression and World War two just begun,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1129" data-t="1129">and then</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1131" data-t="1131">World War two ended by presume. Right? Did you say 1957</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1134" data-t="1134">was when she published After Shrugged? Mhmm. Yeah. And that so that was that that strange era of rebuilding,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1141" data-t="1141">picking up the pieces,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1143" data-t="1143">right about to enter the madman era, certainly in New York,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1147">19:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1147" data-t="1147">and but also other parts of the country.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1151" data-t="1151">Yeah. It was certainly very interesting time.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1155">19:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1155" data-t="1155">A a book that I really enjoyed and I think was informative</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1159" data-t="1159">for me was written right around the same time as The Fountainhead was, The Road to Serfdom</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1164" data-t="1164">by Hayek.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1166" data-t="1166">Mhmm. Published in 1944.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1169" data-t="1169">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1170" data-t="1170">I think that's another book that's, you know, very relevant</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1174">19:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1174" data-t="1174">to the stuff that we're seeing today.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1176" data-t="1176">You know? And it ran</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1178" data-t="1178">I think her perspective was informed in a unique way by having an outsider view</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1184" data-t="1184">from coming from the Soviet Union. So she</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1188" data-t="1188">you know? What what Hayek was seeing was all these different ideologies,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1192" data-t="1192">fascism, communism really, you know, playing around,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1196">19:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1196" data-t="1196">in the communities that he was in. I think he was in The UK,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1200" data-t="1200">you know, and there there were a bunch of people slurping up</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1204" data-t="1204">communist pep slop and fascist pep slop and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1209" data-t="1209">you know, and that was, you know, his reaction to that. You know, it was the commentary on the the economics of these different systems and, you know, advocating for free markets and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1220" data-t="1220">you know, Rand coming to The US, you know, from the Soviet Union, viewing that and seeing that these communist, you know, run around propagating</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1228" data-t="1228">these ideas. I I bet it was pretty alarming for her, you know, coming to a society that was significantly more open and free</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1237">20:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1237" data-t="1237">and seeing people propagate ideas that, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1241" data-t="1241">she thought would lead to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1245" data-t="1245">just,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1246" data-t="1246">you know, destruction.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1248" data-t="1248">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1251" data-t="1251">it's it's I think the striking thing</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1254">20:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1254" data-t="1254">for me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1256" data-t="1256">and and one of the things I try and explain to people oftentimes is that, you know, things really haven't changed in a lot of ways. Like, people are just as retarded today</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1265" data-t="1265">as if they as they have ever been.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1268" data-t="1268">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1270" data-t="1270">like, the the themes that you see in these stories are irrelevant. They they they repeat over and over again.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1277" data-t="1277">And, I think one of the importances</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1279">21:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1279" data-t="1279">of a good story and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1282" data-t="1282">being a good storyteller</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1283" data-t="1283">is having relevance</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1286" data-t="1286">for a long time. You know? Because if you really tap into something that's real and is true,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1292" data-t="1292">it's not just like you're you're doing commentary for what's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1297" data-t="1297">happening in the moment,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1299">21:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1299" data-t="1299">but you're doing commentary</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1302" data-t="1302">on just the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1305" data-t="1305">human condition in a lot of ways. But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1308" data-t="1308">so, you know, you talk about these characters,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1311" data-t="1311">you know, this man or this boy who loses his father. Like, where where do you get inspiration</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1318" data-t="1318">for these characters? How do you</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1321">22:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1321" data-t="1321">develop them? And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1325" data-t="1325">you know, what does that process look like? Because I I think a good author</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1330" data-t="1330">is just so effective at at understanding</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1333" data-t="1333">people and bringing depth into their characters, making them realistic. Like, that's what draws somebody into a story.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1339" data-t="1339">So what did that process look like for you?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1343">22:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1343" data-t="1343">Yes. Sorry. I've</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1345" data-t="1345">my</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1346" data-t="1346">mic got cut off. Can you can you hear me? Is Yeah. Okay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1352" data-t="1352">Yeah. You know, it's it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1354" data-t="1354">there wasn't</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1356" data-t="1356">this this is not something that happened to me. Right? Because my parents are very much</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1360">22:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1360" data-t="1360">still alive</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1362" data-t="1362">and around,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1363" data-t="1363">and my my father certainly didn't</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1365" data-t="1365">leave any secrets,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1368" data-t="1368">behind.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1371" data-t="1371">But,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1373">22:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1373" data-t="1373">how did I find this character? I don't know. It just it just came to me. I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1378" data-t="1378">I I have this idea about well, you know, so here's here's the funny thing. Right? So this is a young man in in his early twenties, right, who's the protagonist. And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1388" data-t="1388">and and then, you know, his his father</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1392" data-t="1392">son dies suddenly. The father's in his early fifties, and then, you know, he through visions and so on, he's he's he finds out these secrets about his father. After I wrote the book, I felt really</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1402" data-t="1402">pleased with myself,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1403" data-t="1403">'24. Right? And and then July 18 as well, of course,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1407">23:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1407" data-t="1407">the sequel.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1408" data-t="1408">But, after '24, I was thinking about it saying</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1412" data-t="1412">sort of pondering the similar question</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1414" data-t="1414">that you you brought up, Bridgette, where did this come from?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1418" data-t="1418">And if you think about it, these are archetypical stories. Right? A young a young man</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1424" data-t="1424">communicating with a ghost of his dead father</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1427">23:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1427" data-t="1427">who</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1428" data-t="1428">leads him to a dangerous secret. I mean, the the the most famous one is Hamlet.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1434" data-t="1434">Right? It's so and and then that that story sort of recurs through literature.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1439" data-t="1439">So maybe it was just the subconscious echo of all</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1444" data-t="1444">the books and plays and whatnot that I, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1449" data-t="1449">that seeped in through osmosis that created the idea</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1453">24:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1453" data-t="1453">for this. Right? Because it is essentially</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1455" data-t="1455">a a variation of Hamlet.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1457" data-t="1457">Young man's father suddenly dies who and his ghost leads him to a very dangerous secret about a life that he had no idea</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1465" data-t="1465">existed.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1470">24:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1470" data-t="1470">Alright. We had technical difficulties and had to stop,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1473" data-t="1473">lost the train of thought.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1477" data-t="1477">Pod you know? Podcast is hard work.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1480">24:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1480" data-t="1480">It is.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1482">24:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1482" data-t="1482">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1484" data-t="1484">I like to I like to challenge people. You know? There there's a lot of people that sit on the peanut gallery, and they're like they they got strong opinions about things, but they don't have a podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1493" data-t="1493">And I like to tell them, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1495" data-t="1495">why don't you start a podcast? Like, mister Hoddle.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1498" data-t="1498">What's that guy doing with his life?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1501">25:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1501" data-t="1501">Is that is that a Twitter personality? I'm I'm so out of touch with what's happening on Twitter now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1507">25:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1507" data-t="1507">Yeah. He he's, like, a long, long time Twitter personality</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1512" data-t="1512">who who thinks he has a really important opinion, and he sits in Twitter spaces and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1518" data-t="1518">argues with Nazis all day</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1520" data-t="1520">about nothing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1523" data-t="1523">But he he had, like, one good exchange back in the block size wars with,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1528" data-t="1528">Jihan Wu, and now he thinks he's, he's cool.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1532">25:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1532" data-t="1532">But you it is interesting. So I I don't know this person specifically, but there there's a general trend with</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1540" data-t="1540">a lot of Bitcoin influencers, especially,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1543" data-t="1543">where</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1545" data-t="1545">people are famous for</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1547" data-t="1547">reasons that are completely unclear to me. And then I find out, oh, this guy did a rant once</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1554" data-t="1554">and it went viral.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1555">25:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1555" data-t="1555">Or he said something or</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1558" data-t="1558">there was three three times on Clubhouse where he'd said something interesting back in 2021. And now,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1564" data-t="1564">you you know, the he he's one of the biggest big or he or she is one of the biggest, you know, big con influencers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1570" data-t="1570">It's just bizarre to me how</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1572" data-t="1572">fame or infamy or whatever you want to call it, is earned in this space.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1578">26:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1578" data-t="1578">Are you talking about American Auto?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1581">26:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1581" data-t="1581">Well, I was I've no no person in general, but, I'm sorry. No or rather no person in particular, but there seems to be a general trend,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1590" data-t="1590">with a lot of Bitcoin influencers.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1593">26:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1593" data-t="1593">Yeah. It is strange. I mean, Internet virality</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1596" data-t="1596">is a very weird phenomenon</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1598" data-t="1598">that you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1600" data-t="1600">you kinda see across the board. Like, Hocktoo</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1603" data-t="1603">was the most recent example of this,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1606" data-t="1606">where</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1609">26:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1609" data-t="1609">she was the hottest thing in the world until she rug pulled her meme coin.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1614">26:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1614" data-t="1614">It is absolutely bizarre to me how that person</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1618" data-t="1618">rose to that level of fame and and fortune, presumably.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1623" data-t="1623">For,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1625" data-t="1625">yeah, for for a viral</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1627" data-t="1627">video, that was pretty stupid. Right? I mean, there was nothing intelligent about what happened in that ten second exchange or fifteen second exchange that went viral.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1638" data-t="1638">And</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1639">27:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1639" data-t="1639">and and yet,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1641" data-t="1641">you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1642" data-t="1642">your person suddenly has</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1643" data-t="1643">500,000</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1644" data-t="1644">or million</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1645" data-t="1645">subscribe subscribers or or or followers or whatever you wanna call it and is all the rage. He's being invited to speak on TV shows and podcasts and whatnot.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1656">27:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1656" data-t="1656">Amazing.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1657">27:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1657" data-t="1657">Would you have her on Plug Chain Radio? Absolutely not.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1662" data-t="1662">I would have her on the Beagle for sure.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1665" data-t="1665">I've been trying to get her on the Beagle. What would you talk about?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1670" data-t="1670">Well, she I I I wanna know what she thinks of Ross and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1675" data-t="1675">probably technique.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1677" data-t="1677">I don't know. I'm sure there's a plenty to talk to her about. That that was the weird thing is she</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1683">28:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1683" data-t="1683">right when she was blowing up, she showed up at the Bitcoin conference.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1687" data-t="1687">She did. Yeah. And she was running around. She was talking about free Ross.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1691" data-t="1691">It was all it was all very, you know, strange.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1695" data-t="1695">And then she launched a shit coin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1698" data-t="1698">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1701" data-t="1701">yeah. I don't know. Inner Internet virality</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1703">28:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1703" data-t="1703">is is very strange. It yeah. I don't know how much of it's manufactured.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1708" data-t="1708">It's hard it's hard to tell,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1710" data-t="1710">what's what's real in the world we live in, you know, where these people come from. And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1715" data-t="1715">because,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1718" data-t="1718">I I do think there are individuals that have the ability to pull levers and and make people into something</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1725" data-t="1725">that might not be very significant.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1728">28:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1728" data-t="1728">But you just think about, like, there there's some blonde girl, some hot blonde girl out there</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1734" data-t="1734">that has been putting the hours in day after day, making TikTok videos, showing, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1740" data-t="1740">videos of her flexing her butt in yoga pants,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1744" data-t="1744">and all of a sudden, Hock Toa Girl comes up on the scene. Like, how does that make yoga pants girl feel?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1752">29:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1752" data-t="1752">Yeah. Maybe it is manufactured</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1755" data-t="1755">a a virality.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1756" data-t="1756">Maybe there is some hidden hand</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1759" data-t="1759">that's looking to promote certain people, and it has its ways of doing it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1764" data-t="1764">Who knows?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1765" data-t="1765">Yeah. I it makes me wonder. I mean, like, just going back to the the Bitcoin space, I've 95%</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1772">29:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1772" data-t="1772">of the the people in in Bitcoin,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1776" data-t="1776">of if I had to pick a number, right, I've said 95%.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1779" data-t="1779">It's you listen to them and and it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1783" data-t="1783">it makes no sense.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1785" data-t="1785">How do these people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1787" data-t="1787">have such large followings?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1789">29:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1789" data-t="1789">How do they,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1791" data-t="1791">I mean, the the it's the I I mean, you call it pep slop, Richard. I call it influencer slop. Right? Regurgitating</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1797" data-t="1797">the same</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1799" data-t="1799">old tired lines about NGU or about how terrible the state is and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1805" data-t="1805">it's it is bizarre to me. And and then you have, you know, incredible podcast like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1812" data-t="1812">Uncoverable Misfits and what what what do you guys do and and others. And it's like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1817">30:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1817" data-t="1817">there's there's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1819" data-t="1819">not much I oh, what was the the the Otis Bit My One Sound Coffee? That's that's my one of my new favorite podcasts. Right? Fundamentals does, amazing podcasts.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1830" data-t="1830">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1831" data-t="1831">talking about real things, having real conversations</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1834" data-t="1834">with real people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1836" data-t="1836">and</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1836">30:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" data-t="1836">you you see nothing there.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1839" data-t="1839">Minimal</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1840" data-t="1840">recognition</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1841" data-t="1841">or reward of any sort other than the work itself, presumably. Right? But there there doesn't seem to be too much resonance from the external world</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1851" data-t="1851">for,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1853" data-t="1853">you know, frankly, very, very good content.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1857">30:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1857" data-t="1857">Well,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1858" data-t="1858">I think I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1860" data-t="1860">it's because and and why is PubSlop effective?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1864" data-t="1864">Is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1866" data-t="1866">in in many ways, Bitcoin is like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1869" data-t="1869">learning about it is a process of de retardize it re</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1874">31:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1874" data-t="1874">de retardization.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1878" data-t="1878">Because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1879" data-t="1879">most of the time, individuals don't have to learn</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1881" data-t="1881">about anything ever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1884" data-t="1884">They they they just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1887" data-t="1887">the the what the learning process is is it's it's memorizing,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1891">31:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1891" data-t="1891">that's why I never liked math in school. Like, math was interesting from, like, a puzzle standpoint, but, like, algebra. I like geometry more than algebra.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1899" data-t="1899">But algebra is just about memorizing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1903" data-t="1903">formulas,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1905" data-t="1905">essentially, over and over again. And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1908" data-t="1908">like, you could you could solve any problem if you know the correct formula,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1912" data-t="1912">which is, you know, kind of a way lame way to learn in my opinion. But that's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1917">31:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1917" data-t="1917">that's how, you know, the fiat world teaches people essentially. It's like, this is the formula. You you check this box and, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1925" data-t="1925">you ask this question to this person, you push this paper this direction, and, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1930" data-t="1930">you do this thing. But there there's not a lot of creative thought that is encouraged.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1935" data-t="1935">Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1937" data-t="1937">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1938" data-t="1938">so they I think they're they're attracted to that. They're attracted to to things because, you know, Bitcoin is</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1945">32:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1945" data-t="1945">a difficult concept to understand because it's very abstract. Like, you have to listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast a week to understand it. And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1953" data-t="1953">most people aren't willing to do that because that competes with, Netflix time or, you know, whatever else, sports ball. And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1963" data-t="1963">you know, but for individuals that are learning about it, you know, oftentimes, it's it's one of the first things they've ever actually spent the time to actually learn about.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1971" data-t="1971">And, one of the parts, you know, that's interesting about Bitcoin is is it's interactive. There's a lot of ways to interact with it,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1981" data-t="1981">whereas, you know, a lot of other things, there there isn't so much. But, I mean, you even see it, like, in in the music world. You know, oftentimes when people are being taught about music, they're just being taught formulas, like how to play other people's music. They're not being taught how to write it. They're not</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1995">33:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1995" data-t="1995">being taught how to do that. You know, when you're</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1999" data-t="1999">when you're being taught how to write, you know, you're not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2003" data-t="2003">taught how to develop</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2005" data-t="2005">characters and and and tell compelling stories in a lot of ways. You're you're trying to write for the purpose of,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2012" data-t="2012">you know, impressing a teacher</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2014" data-t="2014">Mhmm. Or something. Not not from, like, a how do you captivate somebody's attention and draw them into,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2021">33:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2021" data-t="2021">a story? And so I I think that general,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2025" data-t="2025">you know, attitude of,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2029" data-t="2029">like, I I think it's largely because in in many ways, the frontier has been settled</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2036" data-t="2036">almost universally.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2038" data-t="2038">And, you know, as a result of things being settled and and relatively, like, calm and safe, they're like, there's not really that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2047" data-t="2047">need to learn because I think</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2049">34:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2049" data-t="2049">that's generally</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2052" data-t="2052">how and when humans go through the process of learning and thinking about things critically is it's not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2060" data-t="2060">always just an inherent desire, but it's it's a necessity.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2066" data-t="2066">And there there isn't the same level of necessity today as there, you know, has been historically. I think, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2073" data-t="2073">oftentimes the greatest</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2076" data-t="2076">points in history, you know, that art flows out of are are times of great, you know, upheaval and and and challenge.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2086">34:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2086" data-t="2086">And yeah. Is that true, though, Richard? I mean, I know it feels that way. You said the frontier has been settled, sort of another way of saying there's nothing new under the sun.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2096" data-t="2096">I wonder if at different points in history,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2100" data-t="2100">like in the eighteen fifties or whatever, did did people feel that way? That, oh, everything that's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2106" data-t="2106">you know, that had to be done is done. Like, what's there for us to do? Right? It's there there there are no new frontiers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2113" data-t="2113">So I I wonder if if that's just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2116" data-t="2116">a natural human state of of being in the moment and thinking that there is nothing new under the sun.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2122">35:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2122" data-t="2122">Well, I I I do think there's always a frontier. You know, in many ways, Bitcoin is the frontier.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2128" data-t="2128">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2131" data-t="2131">you know, the individuals that are you know, I think that you're identifying as interesting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2136" data-t="2136">are people that are actually embarking out on the frontier and trying to learn about this thing and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2142" data-t="2142">you know, engage with it in an interesting way and and try to shape the world around them.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2149" data-t="2149">Whereas the people that you find uninteresting</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2152">35:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2152" data-t="2152">are the people that are trying to integrate it into the world that they're already content with. Like, that's the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2158" data-t="2158">they're they're they're trying to take this technology and mold it to what they already have, and that's kind of the contrast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2166" data-t="2166">But, I mean, AI is a frontier too</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2169" data-t="2169">in a lot of ways</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2170" data-t="2170">that is rapidly changing the world. And I think there's a huge</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2174" data-t="2174">difference between individuals that are using it as a</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2178">36:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2178" data-t="2178">force multiplier for creativity,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2181" data-t="2181">like, in ways that you have done,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2184" data-t="2184">testing things, experimenting with things, and then people that are just, you know, trying to get it to do the thinking for them.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2190" data-t="2190">Mhmm.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2192">36:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2192" data-t="2192">Yeah. Yeah. I think some of or a lot of this actually feeds into</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2197" data-t="2197">the attention economy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2199" data-t="2199">which we so why are people not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2204" data-t="2204">being more bold? Right? Why why are they not taking risks? And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2208" data-t="2208">why why are they not trying to be pioneers? Because there is a formula, like you said. Like like with algebra, there's a formula. You apply it and you get the result. And the formula is you you learn how to tame the algorithm, and it's typically with some form of outrage or</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2224" data-t="2224">or scandal or or or controversy or something like that. Right? It's typically some kind of negative emotion.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2232">37:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2232" data-t="2232">You learn how to tame the algorithm that way, and you get the attention.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2236" data-t="2236">And the attention drives up your revenue through advertising or responses or what have you. And it's just a it's a self contained,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2246" data-t="2246">it was a self contained death spiral, honestly.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2249" data-t="2249">Because,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2250" data-t="2250">I mean, society erodes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2252" data-t="2252">slowly and inexorably in the process. You might not feel it in the moment, but over a long enough time horizon, it just</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2260">37:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2260" data-t="2260">it is the true decay of society. Right? There's people trapped in these attention</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2264" data-t="2264">attention casinos. That's what they are.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2266" data-t="2266">Gambling away their precious</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2269" data-t="2269">time,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2270" data-t="2270">to play these games.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2272" data-t="2272">And,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2274">37:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2274" data-t="2274">and I think that's that's why we we</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2276" data-t="2276">we see so many people so many people stuck in this and so few trying to break out of it, trying to be true pioneers because there is a lot of risk in being a pioneer. Why not use the tried and tested formula? Yes. We'll talk about Bitcoin, this amazing thing. But really, why we talk about Bitcoin? To make more fiat by gaming the attention economy.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2298">38:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2298" data-t="2298">Absolutely. So what what do you think your,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2301" data-t="2301">what's different about you?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2304" data-t="2304">Why why do you think you've approached things differently instead of being a plub sloper?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2309">38:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2309" data-t="2309">Listen, man. I I probably would have been a plub sloper if I didn't</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2313" data-t="2313">have a few awakenings,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2316" data-t="2316">along the way. One was,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2319" data-t="2319">I got into the blockchain world, blockchain crypto world in '27 '16.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2324" data-t="2324">2017</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2325" data-t="2325">worked in that industry as a technologist</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2329">38:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2329" data-t="2329">during the heyday of blockchain,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2331" data-t="2331">not Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2333" data-t="2333">In fact, I worked at a company whose CEO coined that phrase,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2337" data-t="2337">for a for a couple of years. And then at some point,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2341" data-t="2341">maybe the the the there was a part of me that actually believed I was doing the right thing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2348" data-t="2348">And and and thank heaven for that, that I had some kind</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2351">39:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2351" data-t="2351">of moral compass that said, you know what? I'm doing something, and it's the right thing. And then I was,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2357" data-t="2357">as you could imagine,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2359" data-t="2359">I I was completely</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2360" data-t="2360">wrecked in the process intellectually wrecked where, you know, two or three years into this blockchain world, you realize it's complete nonsense. And the only thing that makes sense in this world is Bitcoin. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2371" data-t="2371">I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2372" data-t="2372">that sort of that's that was one of the awakenings.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2376">39:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2376" data-t="2376">And then there are few others, just personal things that happened,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2380" data-t="2380">which led me to realize, look, what</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2383" data-t="2383">what do I really want in life? I I just wanna be happy. I want and what makes me happy? Doing the things that give me a sense of meaning and purpose</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2392" data-t="2392">and just pursuing them.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2395" data-t="2395">For the longest part of my life, I used money, a thought or rather thought of money</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2401" data-t="2401">as a proxy for happiness. Oh, yes. Let me just do this job because it's it pays me well. It yes. It's a it's for some evil corporation, but it's an amazing salary and,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2411">40:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2411" data-t="2411">you know, it allows me to live the life, I want to live. And then but but that sense of meaning and purpose</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2416" data-t="2416">just is not there.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2419" data-t="2419">So it's a it's a very humbling and simple realization</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2423" data-t="2423">that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2425" data-t="2425">none of the stuff matters. What matters is is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2428" data-t="2428">health and happiness.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2431">40:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2431" data-t="2431">And and and with that comes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2433" data-t="2433">the the need to do something</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2435" data-t="2435">that actually is meaningful, that that gives a sense of purpose. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2440" data-t="2440">maybe it maybe you could call it luck, Richard, but I stumbled into this realization.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2445" data-t="2445">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2446" data-t="2446">and according to some,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2449">40:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2449" data-t="2449">some people that that I respect such as yourself and others,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2452" data-t="2452">what I produce is not pleb slop.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2457">40:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2457" data-t="2457">It's not even though you have pleb in the in the show name.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2461">41:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2461" data-t="2461">That is true. That was a relic from a different era. We could talk about that if you want, but Absolutely. Yeah. What what's your perspective on, the term pleb</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2471">41:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2471" data-t="2471">and the meaning of it? Yeah. So when</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2474">41:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2474" data-t="2474">it sort of ties back to what we're talking about with influencers and this this shallow platitudes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2479" data-t="2479">that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2480" data-t="2480">that get thrown out. Right? The the slop</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2483" data-t="2483">the slop before we even called it slop.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2485" data-t="2485">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2487" data-t="2487">and there was a lot of this happening in,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2489">41:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2489" data-t="2489">maybe four, five years ago, 2021,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2493" data-t="2493">even 2020, right, the the wave of adoption that happened with the pandemic and and the influencers</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2499" data-t="2499">who grew to prominence with with things like Clubhouse and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2503" data-t="2503">all this other stuff. And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2506" data-t="2506">and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2508" data-t="2508">you know, around when we this late twenty twenty two, early twenty three was when we were hashing,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2514">41:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2514" data-t="2514">KW and I hashed the idea for the show,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2516" data-t="2516">the early days of of Nostra.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2519" data-t="2519">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2520" data-t="2520">even back then, right, so we're talking three years ago, the word</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2524" data-t="2524">pleb at at that time was a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2527" data-t="2527">silent cry of rebellion saying, look, I'm not one of these people. Right? I'm</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2532">42:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2532" data-t="2532">I don't think I'm better than the people around me just because I have 20,000</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2537" data-t="2537">followers on Twitter or whatever it is.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2540" data-t="2540">I'm I'm here to participate in this, I guess, this movement, this revolution where</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2545" data-t="2545">that that that's supposed to break down these barriers and and be a classless,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2551" data-t="2551">kind of thing. Right? So it it in some sense, it was a very earnest,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2556" data-t="2556">taking to heart the phrase we are all Satoshi.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2559">42:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2559" data-t="2559">I know that that's at this point, even that's probably pep slop. Right? But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2565" data-t="2565">but, yeah, it's it's so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2567" data-t="2567">the the word pleb</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2568" data-t="2568">and then pleb chain that came out of that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2571" data-t="2571">was</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2572" data-t="2572">was that. It was just a rebellion against influencer culture.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2576">42:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2576" data-t="2576">So that was back then. I think what's happened now is that, the term's gotten so muddied,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2583" data-t="2583">especially in the last year, six even six months.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2587" data-t="2587">I'll say six months to a year,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2589" data-t="2589">that that it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2591" data-t="2591">it's lost its initial meaning. And a lot of people call themselves plebs when they all they want to do is yell and get into fights about things that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2601" data-t="2601">that don't even make sense. Right? And we're seeing a lot of this with</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2605">43:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2605" data-t="2605">the</span> <span class="cue" data-t="2605">knots versus core debate.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2608" data-t="2608">I I I think there's there've been some incredibly bad faith arguments from both sides,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2613" data-t="2613">which has led me to largely mute,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2617" data-t="2617">most of Bitcoin Twitter.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2620" data-t="2620">And thankfully, Nostra is not as polluted</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2622">43:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2622" data-t="2622">with that debate as it is. But but there are other sort of debates within the Bitcoin ecosystem</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2628" data-t="2628">that have devolved into shouting matches, bad faith arguments,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2633" data-t="2633">and frankly,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2634" data-t="2634">anti intellectual,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2638" data-t="2638">conversations.</span> <span class="cue" data-t="2638">And,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2640">43:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2640" data-t="2640">and, unfortunately, the the word pleb has evolved</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2643" data-t="2643">to associate itself with all of that ugliness.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2647" data-t="2647">So, yeah, at at this point, I'm happy to renounce the name the word pleb now. Unfortunately, it's it's in the name of the podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2655" data-t="2655">It is what it is. I think we just had to own it. But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2659" data-t="2659">but definitely, it it does not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2662" data-t="2662">stand for the ethos that it did three or four years ago.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2666">44:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2666" data-t="2666">I'm not gonna cancel you for not changing the name.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2670">44:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2670" data-t="2670">Well, thank you.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2672">44:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2672" data-t="2672">Yeah. The it's interesting to watch these cultures. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2676" data-t="2676">there there was a whole wave of marketing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2679" data-t="2679">directed towards the clubs</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2681" data-t="2681">in these years.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2683" data-t="2683">There was the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2685" data-t="2685">so, like, from your recollection,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2687">44:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2687" data-t="2687">who were the the biggest influencers that people were</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2691" data-t="2691">rebelling against?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2692">44:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2692" data-t="2692">Well, I don't wanna get into</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2695" data-t="2695">singling out people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2697" data-t="2697">Richard. But I mean, there</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2699" data-t="2699">anyone can throw them who is around</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2701" data-t="2701">can throw their mind back to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2705" data-t="2705">I guess, late twenty twenty, early twenty twenty one when we had that sort of,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2711">45:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2711" data-t="2711">the the bull market of of of that period. And, you know, there was well, we'll talk we could talk about the shitcoiners. Right? They they there was the Terra Luna stuff happening. SPF was</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2721" data-t="2721">all over Twitter. And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2724" data-t="2724">and then we,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2727" data-t="2727">you know, we had, there there were Bitcoiners who,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2731" data-t="2731">you know, was we they were supportive in some sense</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2735" data-t="2735">of what those people were doing or or certainly took a leaf out of the book</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2739">45:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2739" data-t="2739">of Do Kwon and and all these others.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2743" data-t="2743">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2744" data-t="2744">so yeah. Look. Any anyone who's in Bitcoin back then can</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2749" data-t="2749">you kinda piece it together. Right? There were there were a lot of influencers who were born in that in that bull market.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2755">45:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2755" data-t="2755">There's probably people like Nick Carter</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2759" data-t="2759">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2760" data-t="2760">Mike Alfred,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2763" data-t="2763">Dennis Porter.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2765" data-t="2765">Shout out to the goat. Hope bring Dennis home.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2772" data-t="2772">Yeah. I'm trying to remember. I do I guess my my brain is kinda foggy.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2777">46:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2777" data-t="2777">But yeah. Yeah. I get what you're saying.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2779" data-t="2779">Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's it's interesting. It's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2784" data-t="2784">it's just interesting to watch these cultural movements.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2787" data-t="2787">And I think where we're at right now, they kinda</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2792" data-t="2792">go back to what we were talking about earlier about telling compelling stories is this this ecosystem that we're in is missing compelling stories.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2800" data-t="2800">That that seems to be the the thing that's really lacking. Like, there was this</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2805">46:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2805" data-t="2805">excitement around</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2807" data-t="2807">taking on the Federal Reserve.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2810">46:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2810" data-t="2810">Mhmm.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2810">46:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" data-t="2810">And I think people started to come to the realization that the US government embracing Bitcoin</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2818" data-t="2818">and and using it in a lot of ways and not being super friendly and not, you know, really changing things so that it's easy to transact.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2826" data-t="2826">It it meant that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2828" data-t="2828">their idea of them buying Bitcoin on Swan or, you know, wherever, Raver,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2834" data-t="2834">wasn't gonna be enough to end the Federal Reserve in the next three years.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2839" data-t="2839">And Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2842">47:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2842" data-t="2842">They became discouraged as a result of that. And now now there's kind of like they're like, okay. This story that we bought into</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2850" data-t="2850">doesn't appear like it's happening in the timeline that we want it to.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2855" data-t="2855">Mhmm. And there's general discouragement.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2857" data-t="2857">And there hasn't really been a a compelling narrative or or story to get people excited that has filled that gap since then. No. Nothing that nothing that resonates</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2868">47:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2868" data-t="2868">with cypherpunk values,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2871" data-t="2871">certainly. Right? We've had</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2873" data-t="2873">people have gotten</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2875" data-t="2875">or tried to get excited about the ETFs. When was that? That was about a year and a half,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2880" data-t="2880">almost two years ago now. Right? Early twenty four.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2884" data-t="2884">Obviously, the treasury companies</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2886">48:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2886" data-t="2886">that that came after that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2889" data-t="2889">and the institutional adoption that was supposed to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2894" data-t="2894">to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2895" data-t="2895">end the the four year cycles.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2900" data-t="2900">So I think people tried getting excited about that. Some people are still pretending that they're excited</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2905" data-t="2905">about treasury companies and ETFs and</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2908">48:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2908" data-t="2908">and whatnot.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2911" data-t="2911">But I I don't know how authentic these narratives are, and and maybe that's why they're failing. Right? Because this is it's it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2920" data-t="2920">all of this the goal is NGU.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2922" data-t="2922">It's not about reclaiming your sovereignty. Like, how does owning a treasury stock or an ETF,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2930" data-t="2930">separate money from state, for instance, or</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2933" data-t="2933">allow you to be your own bank, or</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2936">48:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2936" data-t="2936">reclaim your privacy or your sovereignty in any way. It doesn't.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2939" data-t="2939">So it really is about fiat gains,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2942" data-t="2942">and NGU in fiat terms.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2945" data-t="2945">And I I just that's not a compelling or authentic</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2949" data-t="2949">narrative.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2950" data-t="2950">And that's why the stories</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2951">49:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2951" data-t="2951">feel like they're they're,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2954" data-t="2954">tepid right now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2956">49:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2956" data-t="2956">Yeah. Totally.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2960" data-t="2960">Yeah. So you didn't get excited about paper Bitcoin summer.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2964">49:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2964" data-t="2964">I like the meme. I thought it was funny.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2968" data-t="2968">But no.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2969" data-t="2969">That's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2970" data-t="2970">I mean, look, I I was at some of these conferences where,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2973" data-t="2973">the the loudest cheerleaders</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2976" data-t="2976">for these things were actively telling people that,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2980">49:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2980" data-t="2980">you know, Bitcoin and self custody was too confusing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2983" data-t="2983">It's just so much easier. All you're looking for is the exposure anyway.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2988" data-t="2988">You know, loud</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2990" data-t="2990">voices, but loud and prominent voices,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2994" data-t="2994">were were saying things like this. So, look, on the one hand, it's obviously, we can make a joke out of it and and laugh at,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3002" data-t="3002">at at the double standard of the hypocrisy.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3005">50:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3005" data-t="3005">But on the other hand, as as someone who actually cares about this revolution,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3010" data-t="3010">someone I mean, I have a teenage son. I I want him to have a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3014" data-t="3014">a brighter future than and and and, you know, aspire to something</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3019" data-t="3019">in his life,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3020" data-t="3020">rather than</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3021" data-t="3021">debt and fiat slavery that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3024">50:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3024" data-t="3024">that that could happen. Right? So when I when I hear,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3028" data-t="3028">unconstructive,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3029" data-t="3029">potentially even destructive,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3032" data-t="3032">narrative arcs emerge around,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3035" data-t="3035">you know, it's all about exposure. You you know, custody is too complicated and all of that stuff. Bitcoin doesn't it's just a store of value. It it doesn't you you don't need it as a currency.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3045" data-t="3045">That,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3047">50:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3047" data-t="3047">you know, that that bothers me, and and I don't like where things are going.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3052">50:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3052" data-t="3052">Absolutely.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3054" data-t="3054">I think one one of the things that's really destructive about the samurai case</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3059" data-t="3059">is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3061" data-t="3061">they found a way</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3063" data-t="3063">to make privacy profitable.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3068" data-t="3068">And I think that's the</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3070">51:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3070" data-t="3070">that's one of the keys</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3073" data-t="3073">And I know I know there's this, like, this attitude that they're trying to go and make money and offer things useful to the world,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3080" data-t="3080">that there's something wrong with that, and that people should just, you know, do things for the greater good out of their, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3087" data-t="3087">to be selfless or whatever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3089" data-t="3089">But, you know, the reality is you get you got Michael Sailor who's selling a product, promoting a narrative.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3096" data-t="3096">You got all these other individuals that are selling products,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3100">51:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3100" data-t="3100">promoting narrative. Like, when you when you have a product that a bunch of people wanna buy, you have you have a huge marketing budget and you can influence narratives.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3108" data-t="3108">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3109" data-t="3109">unfortunately,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3111" data-t="3111">you know, a lot of the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3113" data-t="3113">individuals that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3115" data-t="3115">aren't selling product,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3118">51:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3118" data-t="3118">they don't they don't have the resources to really influence narratives. Like, they don't they don't have the ability to to buy a booth at a conference so that they can go speak on the main stage or get a keynote.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3127" data-t="3127">Mhmm. They don't have the ability to sponsor podcasts and, you know, influence people that way. They don't they don't have</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3136" data-t="3136">the ability to really</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3139" data-t="3139">circulate, you know, their ideas.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3142" data-t="3142">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3144" data-t="3144">you know, the Silk Road was very interesting for this reason, you know, because it was a way that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3150">52:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3150" data-t="3150">somebody was able to or a bunch of people were may able to make a bunch of money, you know, using this technology</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3157" data-t="3157">and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3160" data-t="3160">in a in a way that promoted freedom and sovereignty. And I I think that's, like, one one of the challenges</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3166" data-t="3166">is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3168" data-t="3168">how how do you marry those two things together without getting your head chopped off by the state? Or is there is there no way do you, like, do you do you have to step into danger</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3178" data-t="3178">and be noncompliant?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3180">52:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3180" data-t="3180">Is that the only way? Oh, I think there's there's an in between part. But I think you might have touched on something that's that's pretty key here,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3186" data-t="3186">Richard, which is, if you're building freedom tech tools and privacy tools,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3192" data-t="3192">that are they're truly putting power and sovereignty back in the hands of individuals,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3197" data-t="3197">and you're making money on top of it,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3200" data-t="3200">I think you put you're you're painting a pretty big target on yourself. I think that's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3205" data-t="3205">that is very likely true. So we saw that with Silk Road. We saw that with Samurai, both cases that he just mentioned.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3212">53:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3212" data-t="3212">So the so I think there is an in between path, which is,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3217" data-t="3217">you look for patrons,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3219" data-t="3219">the Jack Dorsey's of the world and and the others, modern day Medici, if you will,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3224" data-t="3224">who will</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3225" data-t="3225">you know, you're you're not you're not making profit necessarily. They're giving you grants, and then you're building commons. Right? You're you're building free and open source software.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3234" data-t="3234">The grant money makes sure that you can keep the lights on and put food food on the table, but that's about it. And then you're building free and open source software. Maybe that is the sly roundabout way. Right? We have the modern day Medici who are funding,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3247">54:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3247" data-t="3247">free and open source software.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3249">54:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3249" data-t="3249">But don't don't those funders fall into the same the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3255" data-t="3255">the same category. You you look at Jack Dorsey, and you look at how much attack surface area he has</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3262" data-t="3262">with how how limited</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3263" data-t="3263">he could be. Like, you know, all of his companies face regulation.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3268" data-t="3268">Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3269" data-t="3269">They face scrutiny. The IRS</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3271">54:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3271" data-t="3271">or any of these agencies could just be like, hey. We don't like what you're doing, so we're gonna, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3277" data-t="3277">put a boot on your neck,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3279" data-t="3279">unless you you stop doing what you're doing.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3284">54:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3284" data-t="3284">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3285" data-t="3285">But at least at least if if if we go with the argument that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3289" data-t="3289">you know, Ross was making money with Silk Road and the samurai devs were making money,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3299" data-t="3299">then,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3301" data-t="3301">in in the case of someone giving out grants,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3304" data-t="3304">or someone receiving grants, they're really not making that much money. Right? So</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3309">55:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3309" data-t="3309">if that's what if that's the point that's under scrutiny,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3313" data-t="3313">then,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3314" data-t="3314">then I I think there</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3316" data-t="3316">maybe there's a way out. But but you're right. Right? I mean, the the I mean, Jack Dorsey is a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3321" data-t="3321">massive single point of failure. Right? He's he's been incredibly generous in his, help for</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3327" data-t="3327">a lot of these free and open source projects.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3330">55:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3330" data-t="3330">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3331" data-t="3331">it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3332" data-t="3332">but, yes, the government could come and shut it down.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3336">55:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3336" data-t="3336">Yeah. I think, you know, a a large part of it, it it comes with I I think there is an ability</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3344" data-t="3344">to tell a story so compelling that it breaks through,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3347" data-t="3347">and I think that's the challenge. It's it's one of the things that I'm,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3352" data-t="3352">I think both of us are on the path trying to do</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3355" data-t="3355">with our ideas.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3358" data-t="3358">Because I think if if you inspire people in the right way,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3364">56:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3364" data-t="3364">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3366" data-t="3366">you don't always need</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3368" data-t="3368">the same amount of resources and money</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3371" data-t="3371">to influence a narrative.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3373" data-t="3373">Like, it's gonna take a a 100 times more effort or a thousand times more effort to convince people that that paper Bitcoin is a good idea</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3381" data-t="3381">than,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3382">56:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3382" data-t="3382">trying to limit how many,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3385" data-t="3385">the the influence of the pedophilic ruling class over your life.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3390">56:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3390" data-t="3390">Well, but baby stops, though. I I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3394" data-t="3394">I think you're right, Richard. Right? Clearly, we, we don't have the resources</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3398" data-t="3398">to buy the level of influence,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3401" data-t="3401">to buy the space on</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3403" data-t="3403">or or the or the mind space, I should say, on podcast and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3407" data-t="3407">that have, you know, twenty,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3409">56:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3409" data-t="3409">hundred thousand</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3411" data-t="3411">or even a million,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3412" data-t="3412">listeners per per episode. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3415" data-t="3415">But some people clearly do, and they they're the ones who try and influence narratives.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3419" data-t="3419">However, you can you can make incremental changes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3422" data-t="3422">and</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3423">57:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3423" data-t="3423">and hope</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3425" data-t="3425">that that has a eventual</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3427" data-t="3427">compounding and snowball effect</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3429" data-t="3429">over over a decade or so.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3432">57:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3432" data-t="3432">Absolutely.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3434" data-t="3434">I think Blockchain is a great road map for how to have a significant</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3439" data-t="3439">cultural influence. You you guys have been the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3443" data-t="3443">probably the single most</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3445" data-t="3445">influential cultural</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3450" data-t="3450">influence</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3450">57:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" data-t="3450">in the Nostril ecosystem</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3452" data-t="3452">by far,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3454" data-t="3454">I would say.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3456">57:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3456" data-t="3456">Yeah. Well, that's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3458" data-t="3458">we certainly try to be. I mean, our goal is not to be the most influential, but the goal is to move the needle on culture and and, you know, try and get these values to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3469" data-t="3469">cypherpunk values, honestly. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3472" data-t="3472">To to permeate more broadly.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3475" data-t="3475">And, I you know, I think three almost three years in,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3480" data-t="3480">beginning to see early signs of success,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3483">58:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3483" data-t="3483">but we'll see.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3485">58:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3485" data-t="3485">How how would you determine success?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3487" data-t="3487">How how do you judge that?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3489">58:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3489" data-t="3489">I think, you know, if you look at it through a cultural lens. Right? If there are,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3497" data-t="3497">and and break break that down in into, let's just say, music,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3501" data-t="3501">film,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3504" data-t="3504">maybe writing and and a few other media.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3507" data-t="3507">And and look at,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3510" data-t="3510">peep people who've</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3512">58:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3512" data-t="3512">listened to our shows,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3514" data-t="3514">who who then support value for value music, for instance. They're right. They they start and and how how can they how do they do that? They can either boost or zap</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3523" data-t="3523">their their favorite independent musicians, or they can actually go when they go to concerts to listen to their musicians or they have a network. Right? They can bring those people into the fold. Now these these are not easy conversations to have.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3536" data-t="3536">Not all musicians or artists are ready to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3539" data-t="3539">talk about Bitcoin, but some are. Right? And and so that that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3544" data-t="3544">it</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3545">59:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3545" data-t="3545">as we see more of that happening, and we are we are seeing that. Right? Like, more musicians</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3550" data-t="3550">joining the fold, more people supporting independent musicians.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3554" data-t="3554">So that's one. Right? And then similarly,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3557" data-t="3557">writers who are migrating from Substack and moving to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3562" data-t="3562">you know, long form Nasr notes and, you know, getting small amounts of money for that. But or or people who, you know, who are Substack only now doing Substack and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3572" data-t="3572">long form Nasr.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3574">59:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3574" data-t="3574">That's another example.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3576" data-t="3576">You know, we've been talking to some, independent video streaming services,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3582" data-t="3582">and, you know, their audience is demanding that they become Nasdaq clients and start supporting that. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3589" data-t="3589">we see small changes, and I guess that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3591" data-t="3591">to me, is a barometer for success.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3595" data-t="3595">Earlier, it was just it felt like in our first year, it felt like, oh, we're just having a good time, but everything we say is going straight into the void.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3604">1:00:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3604" data-t="3604">But these these things take time. Right? The the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3607" data-t="3607">the seed takes a while to sprout into a tree.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3611">1:00:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3611" data-t="3611">Takes time to build momentum, for sure. Mhmm. Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3616" data-t="3616">Absolutely.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3619" data-t="3619">Well, what are some of the things that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3622" data-t="3622">get you most excited? Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3624" data-t="3624">I think the this is one of the things that I think is important</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3628" data-t="3628">to focus on.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3630">1:00:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3630" data-t="3630">The influencers are being dumb. The plugs are being grumpy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3636" data-t="3636">The politicians are being awful.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3639" data-t="3639">Like, what what's got you excited?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3642">1:00:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3642" data-t="3642">I think people building FreedomTech,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3645" data-t="3645">and I see a lot of that happening.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3648" data-t="3648">Right? There are some,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3650" data-t="3650">amazing new projects</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3652" data-t="3652">that are out there. People building web of trust open source</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3656" data-t="3656">web of trust tools</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3658">1:00:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3658" data-t="3658">on Nostra,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3659" data-t="3659">to improve discoverability</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3660" data-t="3660">for any media, whether whether it's music, whether</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3663" data-t="3663">it's it's film,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3665" data-t="3665">just notes, travel, whatever it is. I see that happening. I see a project like our friend, Shardrax,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3672" data-t="3672">a a to b, right, which is being able to transport,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3678">1:01:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3678" data-t="3678">packages,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3679" data-t="3679">in a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3681" data-t="3681">private and decentralized way using onion routed physical mailing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3686" data-t="3686">I I see,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3688" data-t="3688">you know, hard</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3690" data-t="3690">with things like BitX, right, open source hardware. There's even now an open source,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3696">1:01:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3696" data-t="3696">hard hardware wallet as well. Right? The the secure element specification has been open sourced as well. So there there are some amazing projects that are being built in the Nostraverse,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3708" data-t="3708">in the Bitcoin ecosystem,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3710" data-t="3710">in things like Cashew and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3713" data-t="3713">and other</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3715" data-t="3715">adjacent,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3716" data-t="3716">and and related ecosystems.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3718">1:01:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3718" data-t="3718">FreedomTech, if you you could call it more more broadly.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3721" data-t="3721">And I see that accelerating. So that that excites me.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3726">1:02:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3726" data-t="3726">Well, very cool.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3729" data-t="3729">I mean, I'm excited.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3731" data-t="3731">I think there's some interesting cultural influences.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3737" data-t="3737">Scar Dust is exciting to me. Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3741" data-t="3741">Chris Cyborg</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3743" data-t="3743">being on Noster and and doing a a comic book. I thought that was really interesting.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3748">1:02:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3748" data-t="3748">I really wanna get my hands on that comic book.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3752">1:02:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3752" data-t="3752">Can I ask you about Scott House? Because I I know we we've talked about it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3756" data-t="3756">off the podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3758" data-t="3758">Both of us are huge fans of the band.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3760" data-t="3760">Noah Gruen, probably one of the most amazing rock voices</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3764" data-t="3764">out there today.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3767" data-t="3767">Can we get them to get off their label and, become independent?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3772">1:02:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3772" data-t="3772">I think they like their label.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3774" data-t="3774">Like but I don't know.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3777">1:02:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3777" data-t="3777">Yeah. I don't know.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3779" data-t="3779">I'm not really</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3781" data-t="3781">personally, I'm not really a huge fan of, like, convincing people to change,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3785" data-t="3785">for</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3786" data-t="3786">the sake of it. It's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3788" data-t="3788">I I do really appreciate</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3790">1:03:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3790" data-t="3790">the the involvement that they've</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3792" data-t="3792">they've had, the interest that they've had in, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3797" data-t="3797">I'm I'm excited to see Noah</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3799" data-t="3799">have more like, when she gets back from her tour,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3802" data-t="3802">I think she's gonna get a lot more involved in the ecosystem.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3806" data-t="3806">Mhmm. And I did like, they</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3808">1:03:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3808" data-t="3808">what what</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3810" data-t="3810">because they're they're a serious band. They're not they're not,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3815" data-t="3815">like, a small time in the slightest. Like, they've had a tremendous amount of success,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3820" data-t="3820">and they're going to have</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3822" data-t="3822">continue to have a tremendous amount of success.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3825" data-t="3825">Like, the the things that they do</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3828">1:03:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3828" data-t="3828">cost a ton of money. Like, you look at their their music videos that they do.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3832" data-t="3832">Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3833" data-t="3833">It's like just a single music video that they do, you know, with the way that Lahav produces it. I I don't know what the cost is, but probably tens of thousands of dollars. Like, you've got Mhmm. In some of these shoots, they've got,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3847" data-t="3847">I don't know, like, you know, probably up to 20 people involved with the production</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3851" data-t="3851">spending, you know, all day, if not multiple days. Like, when they're recording,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3857" data-t="3857">their albums, their songs, their</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3860">1:04:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3860" data-t="3860">like, Noah has</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3863" data-t="3863">the band there</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3864" data-t="3864">all day, you know, multiple days,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3867" data-t="3867">but she's bringing a choir in, you know, other musicians</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3870" data-t="3870">to collaborate with. Like, it's it's a very expensive process. And, unfortunately,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3875" data-t="3875">Waverlyte Boost and</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3879">1:04:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3879" data-t="3879">Nostra's apps do not even remotely</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3882" data-t="3882">come close,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3884" data-t="3884">to so so, I mean, like, sure. It would be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3888" data-t="3888">an interesting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3890" data-t="3890">and compelling story,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3892" data-t="3892">you know, to tell somebody of, like you know, if you're a no name artist</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3896">1:04:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3896" data-t="3896">trying to get your stuff out there and you're you're playing gigs for $50</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3901" data-t="3901">a show,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3904" data-t="3904">and you can do a Toonster stream</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3908" data-t="3908">and earn $500,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3911" data-t="3911">like, that's exciting. That's really exciting. But for</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3915" data-t="3915">Mhmm.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3916">1:05:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3916" data-t="3916">Somebody</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3918" data-t="3918">like Scardos, like, I I think the only way to do it is kinda</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3923" data-t="3923">what you were talking about is, like, you need you need a patron to come in to essentially replace the label. It'd be like, okay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3930" data-t="3930">We want you to be exclusively on these platforms, but we're gonna pay all the money for you to do what you're gonna do,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3938" data-t="3938">like the label would.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3939" data-t="3939">And, I think if that happens, then you can convince people like that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3945">1:05:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3945" data-t="3945">to do it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3949" data-t="3949">But, yeah, it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3952" data-t="3952">it's it's a hard sell. Like, it's really a hard sell. That is a good point.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3956">1:05:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3956" data-t="3956">I I think the level of complexity</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3960" data-t="3960">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3961" data-t="3961">and I guess</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3962" data-t="3962">grandness,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3963" data-t="3963">right, that goes into Skardos music is not something that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3967" data-t="3967">you could</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3968">1:06:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3968" data-t="3968">zaps and boosts are not gonna cover that for sure. The 21 sat zaps and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3974" data-t="3974">or even even the slightly more generous ones.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3977" data-t="3977">So if there are any whales or patrons listening and you like complex,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3983" data-t="3983">metal,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3984" data-t="3984">prog metal,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3986" data-t="3986">music, then do consider</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3988">1:06:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3988" data-t="3988">stepping in and making this real. We would love to have Scardust</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3993" data-t="3993">as an independent artist that's available on, all our favorite FreedomTech platforms.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3999">1:06:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3999" data-t="3999">Well, I I I think that's a strategy. It's not not even just for a band like Scardust. It's like, if you got</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4006" data-t="4006">relationship with musicians or something,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4009" data-t="4009">you know, bands that you really like, bringing them into the ecosystem</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4013" data-t="4013">and and essentially doing what I was talking about, becoming their label of sorts,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4017" data-t="4017">is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4019" data-t="4019">is a huge thing. Because, like, why why does Spotify,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4022">1:07:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4022" data-t="4022">you know, really become the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4024" data-t="4024">premier spot</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4025" data-t="4025">for podcasters? Because it it didn't always used to be that way or in in music. It it took over podcasting and music, and, like, a huge part of it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4034" data-t="4034">was because they paid Joe Rogan a $100,000,000</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4037" data-t="4037">to go exclusive on it. Like, they they got</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4040" data-t="4040">they essentially did that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4043">1:07:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4043" data-t="4043">where,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4045" data-t="4045">you know, I'm pretty sure they brought other people on,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4049" data-t="4049">exclusively on the platform too. You know, the brat drag the audience over there. Like, that that's how you do it, you know, in a lot of ways is you have to pay these people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4059" data-t="4059">to come there. So, you know, maybe we could, convince Matt Odell in 10/31,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4064" data-t="4064">you know, or just, you know, somebody somebody like that. Like, you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4068" data-t="4068">you yeah. There has to be</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4071">1:07:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4071" data-t="4071">somebody with a following that, you know, there there's a reason for them to go over there. And, like, sometimes they'll make less money to do that. Like, there is a potential that Joe Rogan made less money</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4082" data-t="4082">going exclusively to Spotify. Like, the the deal eventually ended,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4087" data-t="4087">and I I don't know what the details are, but the like, there that's that's kind of the process.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4093" data-t="4093">I I think I think it's one of the jobs</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4096" data-t="4096">of,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4099" data-t="4099">I think the podcasters</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4102">1:08:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4102" data-t="4102">and and individuals influencing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4105" data-t="4105">or engaging in the culture</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4107" data-t="4107">is to to also</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4110" data-t="4110">sell it you're you're way ahead on this process,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4114" data-t="4114">with what you're doing with finding home because you're going through this process of of finding patrons to fund your project that you're putting a lot of time and effort into, which I it is expensive. There's travel.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4125" data-t="4125">It's very high production quality.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4128">1:08:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4128" data-t="4128">A lot of thought process done in the editing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4131" data-t="4131">Very labor intensive.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4133" data-t="4133">Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4135" data-t="4135">But I think, you know, I I know of other people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4139" data-t="4139">that you know, people running,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4142" data-t="4142">independent media companies, you know, that are that are trying to go through the process</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4147">1:09:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4147" data-t="4147">themselves, you know, to to secure funding to be able to do the things that they want to. And I think that's a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4155" data-t="4155">it's a it's a process that I I think creatives really struggle with</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4160" data-t="4160">in general,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4161" data-t="4161">is securing that funding and and and selling themselves. Like, it, you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4167" data-t="4167">know, because they're creatives. And usually creatives are they're kinda like devs where they're they're kinda retarded in in some ways and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4175" data-t="4175">at at least at communicating</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4177">1:09:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4177" data-t="4177">to to different types of people and organizing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4179" data-t="4179">information and tasks and and and things like that. Mhmm. But, yeah,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4185" data-t="4185">it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4188" data-t="4188">it's possible. I just think, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4192" data-t="4192">the the mechanisms of the way the world actually works need to be, you know, looked at, you know, seriously.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4199" data-t="4199">But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it'd be cool. I do I'm just so happy that Scar does. I think it's so cool that they're they're on Zapp stream twenty four seven. They're they're streaming on</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4208">1:10:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4208" data-t="4208">Fountain. They're streaming on,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4211" data-t="4211">and and, like, I think a a huge thing is, like, you know, for people that are listening that that want things to be more interesting,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4219" data-t="4219">go engage with the people that are interested and get become loyal,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4223" data-t="4223">loyal fans. Because what that shows, like, you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4227" data-t="4227">know, you show up, you support these artists that are here, like Joe Martin. Joe Martin's pretty cool. Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4234" data-t="4234">You</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4237">1:10:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4237" data-t="4237">other artists will see that, and they'll be attracted to that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4241" data-t="4241">And then those artists can then go talk to their friends. Like, you know, imagine if Scardust</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4247" data-t="4247">had become the darling of Nostra.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4251" data-t="4251">Everybody freaked out. Wow.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4254" data-t="4254">There's this there's this group that is incredibly talented,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4259" data-t="4259">some of the best musicians in the world, if not the best. I think Noah's easily one of the best singers in the world. Yeah. And she she she's so multi</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4269">1:11:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4269" data-t="4269">faceted in her talent.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4272" data-t="4272">If Noster had lost their minds</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4275" data-t="4275">like they have, you know, for other people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4278" data-t="4278">Noah's on tour right now</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4281" data-t="4281">every night</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4283" data-t="4283">almost every night in front of tens of thousands of people.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4286">1:11:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4286" data-t="4286">By the way, Richard, the first Bitcoiner to be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4290" data-t="4290">in front of such large crowds. I I don't think too many people are realizing this. Who was the last Bitcoiner</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4295" data-t="4295">that you know who who's walked out onto the stage? Doesn't even have to be a performer or music a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4301" data-t="4301">any Bitcoiner, even Michael Saylor, hasn't I don't think he's ever spoken to a crowd that large.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4310">1:11:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4310" data-t="4310">Phil Labonte of all that remains,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4313" data-t="4313">but he's not, like, as engaged in the ecosystem.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4317" data-t="4317">He doesn't listen to my podcast,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4319" data-t="4319">like Stardust does for mine.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4322" data-t="4322">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4324" data-t="4324">yeah, I mean, there's there's really not that many. That absolutely.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4327">1:12:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4327" data-t="4327">Let's go with Jack Dorsey.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4330">1:12:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4330" data-t="4330">Yeah. Maybe Jack. Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4332">1:12:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4332" data-t="4332">I mean, Jack Jack speaks at, like, his,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4337" data-t="4337">this this is crazy. So he he has, like, company wide meetings where he brings tens of thousands of people into a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4343" data-t="4343">stadium, flies them in from all over the world, and speaks in front of his company. Just his company,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4351">1:12:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4351" data-t="4351">is tens of thousands of people. It's pretty wild. Yeah. But they have to be there, Richard. They haven't they haven't shown up voluntarily as they have for Noah's concerts.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4361">1:12:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4361" data-t="4361">Yeah. They yeah. They they didn't pay to do. They're getting paid. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4366" data-t="4366">But yeah. I mean, like, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4368" data-t="4368">I think this is this is important, you know, for individuals that care about the ecosystem</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4373" data-t="4373">is to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4374" data-t="4374">be able to identify</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4377" data-t="4377">the individuals that are really</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4381">1:13:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4381" data-t="4381">skilled. You know? Because, like, Noah could be on tour right now</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4385" data-t="4385">being like, holy shit.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4387" data-t="4387">I've amassed this huge</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4389" data-t="4389">engaged</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4390" data-t="4390">audience. All these musicians, she's she's hanging out with this, I forgot the the violinist name,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4397" data-t="4397">but she has a following. She's hanging out with Patty Gertie.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4400">1:13:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4400" data-t="4400">They're hanging out doing Instagram videos every day.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4404" data-t="4404">And, she she could be telling Patty Gertie and and the the violinist,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4412" data-t="4412">that, Noster's the place to be. Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4415" data-t="4415">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4416" data-t="4416">you know, this is why. Like, I've gotten paid thousands of dollars. It wasn't just Avi and and Richard boosting our stuff. And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4429" data-t="4429">and so I think this is, this is important for for people in the community to understand,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4434">1:13:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4434" data-t="4434">you know, how they can have influence.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4437" data-t="4437">Part part of it is is is supporting, you know, people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4441" data-t="4441">that are are doing things that are interesting.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4446" data-t="4446">But, yeah, anyways, I'll get off my soapbox on that. But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4450" data-t="4450">yeah, it's,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4451">1:14:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4451" data-t="4451">Well, I mean, I part of the reason why</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4454" data-t="4454">I I think you and I both know the answer to this, which is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4457" data-t="4457">why did Scott does not have a massive</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4460" data-t="4460">reaction on Nostowaker as well? I mean, most people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4463" data-t="4463">listen to slop. They don't I mean, you you the minute you introduce some complexity and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4470" data-t="4470">I mean, especially something like prog metal, prog rock or prog metal. It's just it's such a niche and in almost inaccessible</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4478">1:14:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4478" data-t="4478">genre.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4480" data-t="4480">You you actually need to have something wrong with you like I do,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4484" data-t="4484">to be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4485" data-t="4485">to to to find it compelling.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4488">1:14:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4488" data-t="4488">I don't know. I mean, I I they they they put out a video. They put out a music video with featuring Satoshi Nakamoto.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4494">1:14:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4494" data-t="4494">Fair enough.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4495">1:14:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4495" data-t="4495">Yeah. Yeah. Like, that should be enough. That should be enough.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4501" data-t="4501">Can you imagine if they did that in the twenty twenty twenty one bull market?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4506" data-t="4506">I don't know. Maybe maybe it's the timing. Yeah. I don't know. I don't it it it the the the lack of reaction is so fascinating to me. I haven't figured it out.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4518" data-t="4518">I'm actually I I I'm very astounded, and I I am very disappointed.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4523">1:15:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4523" data-t="4523">That is disappointing. I'm I I I, you know, that that video by itself probably, you're you're right, should have had a lot more eyeballs</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4530" data-t="4530">and interest.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4533" data-t="4533">Having said that, look, it's it's it's inaccessible music. Right? I I love it, but I I think the music is somewhat inaccessible</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4541" data-t="4541">because of its complexity.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4544">1:15:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4544" data-t="4544">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" data-t="4544">I don't know. I mean, I I just all I see is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4548" data-t="4548">skill,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4550" data-t="4550">high production value,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4551" data-t="4551">likes Bitcoin.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4553">1:15:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Avi Burra</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4553" data-t="4553">Mhmm.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4555">1:15:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4555" data-t="4555">I mean, you you I've I figured the simps would show up for now,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4558" data-t="4558">but not even the simps have showed up for I don't get it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4562" data-t="4562">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4563" data-t="4563">They're they're too busy, like, going after Lauren Huddle or, you know, whoever on Twitter. It's just it pulls me.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4568" data-t="4568">But yeah. Anyways.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4571" data-t="4571">Well, I know we're kinda coming up on</span></span></p> +