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Transcript: Pressure Creates Good UX with Evan Kaloudis | BTP Episode 18
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diff --git a/wiki/transcripts/pressure-creates-good-ux-with-evan-kaloudis-btp-episode-18.md b/wiki/transcripts/pressure-creates-good-ux-with-evan-kaloudis-btp-episode-18.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..087d8fa9 @@ -0,0 +1,869 @@ +--- +title: "Transcript: Pressure Creates Good UX with Evan Kaloudis | BTP Episode 18" +type: transcript +episode: pressure-creates-good-ux-with-evan-kaloudis-btp-episode-18 +generated: true +date: 2025-06-26 +audio: "https://feeds.fountain.fm/R8scBF2Wiykm0YVldsHQ/items/vK9ZPlzBnHBvzzK6fnkx/files/AUDIO---DEFAULT---1c34cfaa-698e-4699-af50-6229f37f0df1.mp3" +duration: "1:42:21" +sources: + - raw/episodes/pressure-creates-good-ux-with-evan-kaloudis-btp-episode-18/bundle.json +--- + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1">0:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1" data-t="1">It is a time of chaos</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3" data-t="3">as we are officially in the fourth turning.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-7" data-t="7">There's war in The Middle East, riots in the streets, and even worse, every day, there's a new paper Bitcoin company.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-15" data-t="15">While lightning wallets are acting meek,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-18" data-t="18">running from the pressures of the state, there's one man who has planted his flag.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-24" data-t="24">Today, we are summoning the storm as Evan Kalupas joins us, the creator of Zeus Wallet.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-31">0:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-31" data-t="31">He's the man bringing the ability to interface with the lightning network in a manner unparalleled</span> <span class="cue" id="t-37" data-t="37">by any other lightning wall.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-39" data-t="39">Phoenix,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-40" data-t="40">Breeze,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-41" data-t="41">Wall Of Satoshi,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-43" data-t="43">all these lightning wallet developers, they stay up at night terrorized by the image of the world's premier</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-50">0:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-50" data-t="50">graphics</span> <span class="cue" id="t-52" data-t="52">with no plans for support of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-56" data-t="56">securitized paper Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-58" data-t="58">Joining us today, Evan Kalupis. How you doing?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-63">1:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-63" data-t="63">I'm doing great, boys. Thanks for having me back on the show.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-67">1:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-67" data-t="67">It's, it's really a privilege and an honor. Been a while since we've done one of these, Rod. This is, the Beagles Behind the Podcast, the premier Bitcoin interview show.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-76" data-t="76">Like, how how lucky do you feel to be joining us today, Evan?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-81">1:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-81" data-t="81">I mean, listen. Anytime I have the opportunity to go on one of my favorite podcast that I listen to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-89" data-t="89">you know, regularly, part of my forty hours a week.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-92" data-t="92">You know, I I can't help but think that I'm blessed.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-95" data-t="95">So, you know, how many people can say that that they go on their favorite podcast themselves?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-100" data-t="100">Not many.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-103">1:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-103" data-t="103">Yeah. It feels it feels great to be back doing this, and it feels great. You know, we we hung out in Vegas at the conference. We got to know it. You came to satirize the system.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-113" data-t="113">A midget came flying out of the ring,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-116">1:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-116" data-t="116">crashed into you, spilled your beer. Just a little bit. Not not most of the beer. I want I want that to be on the record. Like, I'm not a big beer spilling guy. You know?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-127" data-t="127">Why? Why? You know? Plus, you know, it wasn't a full size guy. I mean, if it was a full wrestler, maybe I would've spilled more, but just a little splash. Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was it was unexpected, but you you handled it like a champ.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-140">2:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-140" data-t="140">You're you're you're flexible. You're adaptable. That's what it takes to be,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-145" data-t="145">a lightning entrepreneur.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-147" data-t="147">But You gotta you know?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-150">2:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-150" data-t="150">First and foremost, you gotta you gotta survive.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-155">2:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-155" data-t="155">Yeah. Absolutely. And it's right now, it's difficult. It it feels like it's harder to survive. It I don't know if you've been monitoring the situation,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-163" data-t="163">but</span> <span class="cue" id="t-164" data-t="164">we've got, you know, The United States just bombed the shit out of Iran. Apparently,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-170" data-t="170">he took out a nuclear facility that was also found</span> <span class="cue" id="t-175" data-t="175">to been running a shitload of bid access.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-178" data-t="178">So we dropped bunker busters in Iran into it took out, it was a noticeable drop in the hash rate corresponding with that bombing. And this is according to Marty Bent. I have not independently verified this, but this is according to Marty Bent,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-191">3:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-191" data-t="191">the that, they were mining Bitcoin in the Iranian nuclear facilities.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-196" data-t="196">So, you know, with that backdrop,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-198" data-t="198">like, what it what is your take on where we're at? The the opening mentioned fourth turning.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-204" data-t="204">Do you think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-205" data-t="205">that we are in do you first of all, do you believe in the fourth turning,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-209" data-t="209">and how would you respond to that?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-211">3:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-211" data-t="211">Well, first and foremost,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-213" data-t="213">well, first of all, excuse my dog. He's having a hard time.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-219" data-t="219">He,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-221">3:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-221" data-t="221">What's your dog's name again? What's your dog's name? You told us this.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-224">3:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-224" data-t="224">His name's, Murray Rothbark.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-227" data-t="227">He's a he's a bit of a gold bug, so he doesn't really like me doing Bitcoin podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-230" data-t="230">But I don't I don't know. May maybe he does. I feel like if Murray Rothbard, who he's named after, was alive today, he'd probably be a Bitcoiner. Bitcoiner.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-238" data-t="238">But, yeah, Murray himself, he's been having a hard time, last couple days. Something in the yard is driving him nuts. It's been a bad it's been a bad few days for libertarians.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-248">4:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-248" data-t="248">So if Marie Bonk</span> <span class="cue" id="t-250" data-t="250">is a libertarian,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-252" data-t="252">it sucks because we just Donald Trump</span> <span class="cue" id="t-254" data-t="254">reneged on his promise. He he dragged us into a foreign war, but</span> <span class="cue" id="t-259" data-t="259">he actually kept it under two weeks, you know, seems like. And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-263" data-t="263">it, he projected it as a big success.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-266">4:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-266" data-t="266">So, you know, everybody's just kinda like his, his approval ratings have actually probably gone up since this and it, the libertarians are beside, they thought this was gonna be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-276" data-t="276">the thing that finally brought Donald Trump down was breaking his promise to the libertarians. But, you know, if it wasn't New York, it was it was a bad week, so maybe that's Murray's problem.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-285">4:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-285" data-t="285">Yeah. I think it's like a couple of things. Like, the Donald Trump thing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-290" data-t="290">New York City,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-292" data-t="292">well, at least for the Democratic primary elected,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-295" data-t="295">like, a a socialist.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-298" data-t="298">Murray Rothbard was was from New York too, so he's got that tie too. You know?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-302" data-t="302">Our ties to New York.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-304">5:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-304" data-t="304">What are your jobs in here? No. I'm I'm from New York originally.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-308" data-t="308">You know, I was just moved down the road basically during COVID.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-312">5:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-312" data-t="312">Now</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-314">5:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-314" data-t="314">oh, okay. So you were in New York during COVID? Yeah. Yeah. I was I was in Astoria, man. Astoria is fucking best part of New York. That's where all the Greeks hang out. That's where I get all my gyro and my souvlaki.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-325" data-t="325">It was fantastic,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-327" data-t="327">until,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-328" data-t="328">you know, COVID came around and really put a damper on everything. And, yeah, sure, you could still get your takeout, and that was fantastic. But, you know, my deal was You were gone.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-338">5:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-338" data-t="338">They were the king of were you the king of,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-341">5:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-341" data-t="341">Queen's Creek Town? No. Yeah. I was I was the king of Souvlaki,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-345" data-t="345">which was, you know, also the name of one of my favorite cards.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-350" data-t="350">Yeah, man. It was a great time out there. You know, we had we had a lot on.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-354">5:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-354" data-t="354">Quick question.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-355" data-t="355">What are you what is your opinion of Manard's baklava as a Greek man from Greektown? Like, is is it overrated?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-363" data-t="363">Do you yeah. Did you could your mom make better baklava than Mandrake?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-367" data-t="367">Or, or is it is it is it worth the hype?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-371">6:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-371" data-t="371">It is, but it's not, like, authentic authentic style. Like, Mandrake brings his own style to it. Like, it's super sweet, super sugary over the top. It's like drowning Interesting.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-382" data-t="382">But it actually, like, it delivers. And he does, like, a couple different flavors. So, like, if he's got something new cooking up, he's like he's basically the Walter White of, like, baklava. It's like it's addictive.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-393" data-t="393">So, you know, any time I get a chance to see him, he's just got, like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-397" data-t="397">he produces it by the pound too.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-400" data-t="400">But, yeah, I have I try to have, you know, one or two pieces. Try to limit it there because it is fucking loaded with calories, but, oh, it's tasty. It's really good.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-410">6:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-410" data-t="410">What</span> <span class="cue" id="t-411" data-t="411">what what do you what is your reaction to the the place you grew up for? Lupeze has been a decade. A place that you started to probably I mean, any I think anybody who lives in New York for a decade probably starts to really identify as a New Yorker.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-425" data-t="425">What is your reaction as a New Yorker</span> <span class="cue" id="t-427" data-t="427">to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-430" data-t="430">your your city electing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-432" data-t="432">at least in the primary,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-434">7:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-434" data-t="434">a con or a socialist</span> <span class="cue" id="t-436" data-t="436">over an Italian pervert?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-440">7:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-440" data-t="440">And as yeah. You know, like like I I well, I got told you this before. Dude, I mean, do you do you think in my lifetime</span> <span class="cue" id="t-447" data-t="447">or how many decades we've had anyone who's remotely politically aligned with with us, like, not not really. I mean, the closest thing we've had,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-457" data-t="457">is I I guess now, which is really funny, is the current mayor,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-461" data-t="461">mayor Adams. He was speaking in in Vegas. He was talking about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-465" data-t="465">bit bonds in New York City.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-467" data-t="467">So he's, like, sort of a line with us.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-470">7:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-470" data-t="470">Oh, man.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-471">7:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-471" data-t="471">Murray, you're killing me, buddy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-475" data-t="475">Yeah. I think one of his charges is always a, a mess, man. I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-479" data-t="479">de Blasio,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-481" data-t="481">Bloomberg,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-482" data-t="482">Giuliani,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-483" data-t="483">like, shitheads. So it's not it's never been great.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-488">8:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-488" data-t="488">So</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-489">8:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-489" data-t="489">Do you what what do you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-492" data-t="492">I just wanna throw a hypothetical out there. Sure. So New York politics are, like, famously screwed up. They have been for a long time. I think this is just, like, how things work in in most major cities in The United States in the in the political realm. Uh-huh.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-508" data-t="508">What do you think would things would look like if Dennis Porter</span> <span class="cue" id="t-513" data-t="513">was the mayor of New York City?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-516">8:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-516" data-t="516">Could could he clean it up and fix it? No. I think he would do a one eighty completely</span> <span class="cue" id="t-522" data-t="522">towards the seventies.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-523" data-t="523">Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-525" data-t="525">basically,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-527" data-t="527">Times Square would be back to its pornographic roots. I mean, basically, everyone</span> <span class="cue" id="t-532" data-t="532">opening the their newspapers,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-535">8:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-535" data-t="535">turning into the local TV</span> <span class="cue" id="t-538" data-t="538">would be fully erect. First of all, you I don't think you could run a society like that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-544" data-t="544">You know, it it would be full on decay at that rate.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-548">9:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-548" data-t="548">Well, actually,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-550" data-t="550">think about this, though.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-552" data-t="552">Okay. Remember, like, you really had stop and frisk is what cleaned up New York.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-557" data-t="557">And if you were to do a stop and frisk</span> <span class="cue" id="t-560" data-t="560">and someone did not have an erection</span> <span class="cue" id="t-564" data-t="564">when when given, you know, a YouTube video showed them of Dennis Porter or a picture,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-569">9:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-569" data-t="569">if they didn't get an erection, that means that their their incentives were misaligned.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-574" data-t="574">And you you could probably bring them in and find that they were</span> <span class="cue" id="t-578" data-t="578">getting into, like, criminal behavior or just not savory citizens.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-583" data-t="583">I think that would be a great way to clean up New York City. Like, stop and frisk, boner or no boner. And it's it's it's a clear cut.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-592" data-t="592">There's you you don't yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-594">9:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-594" data-t="594">I would be at least negative that they're not getting their forty hours per weekend.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-599" data-t="599">But I don't know. I I feel like Dennis just transcends that too. Like, what? You don't think he's attractive to socialist and communist? Like, have you have you seen the man? He's he's a god.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-609">10:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-609" data-t="609">He's the he's the alpha</span> <span class="cue" id="t-611" data-t="611">orange pillar.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-612">10:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-612" data-t="612">Yeah. So The Apex orange pillar. I I feel like anyone who wasn't erect</span> <span class="cue" id="t-619" data-t="619">soon would be after him being in the media there,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-624" data-t="624">you know, ubiquitous through the media there within a couple weeks. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-628" data-t="628">would you even really need to take action, block these people away? I don't even think so.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-633" data-t="633">But at the same time,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-635" data-t="635">the debauchery</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-636">10:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-636" data-t="636">that would,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-638" data-t="638">you know, we'd we'd fall into.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-641" data-t="641">I I I just don't think that putting New York City on a, Bitcoin standard would cancel that out. I I feel like it would it would be fucking nuts.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-648" data-t="648">So I don't know. Yeah. You some things you really got just put into practice to to see how they play out, but,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-656" data-t="656">man, it's it's like, it's like Prometheus and fire, man. Like, who knows, man? A whole new world would be possible.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-663">11:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-663" data-t="663">Yep.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-664" data-t="664">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-665" data-t="665">the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-667" data-t="667">as seeing New York City, the lack of socialist,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-671" data-t="671">doesn't surprise me. And it doesn't surprise people who listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast per week. We knew</span> <span class="cue" id="t-678" data-t="678">that New York City was full of woke socialist</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-682">11:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-682" data-t="682">retards.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-683" data-t="683">Right, it was just you know? But all the all my friends in New York, all the people who love they think New York City is the best city in the world despite, you know, some of its problems here and there,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-696" data-t="696">they assured us that that was not true, that what we heard on podcast we were told to to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-702" data-t="702">not believe the things we hear on podcasts about New York City. And it turns out the podcasters were right. And do you think that this is like a big,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-710" data-t="710">you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-712" data-t="712">a coup de grace, so to speak, for the people in New York City who think it's the best city in the world to maybe have some humility</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-720">12:00</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-720" data-t="720">for you know, just have a little humility.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-723">12:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-723" data-t="723">Yeah. I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-726" data-t="726">you you gotta be staying humble in this world. Everything is just changing so rapidly.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-731" data-t="731">But at the same time, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-733" data-t="733">you know, New York is the greatest city in the world in in what terms?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-738" data-t="738">In terms of, you know, lifestyle, when when you're young and you're going out and socializing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-744" data-t="744">Is it really the best for, you know, later stages in your life, Jim? Probably not. Unless you have</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-750">12:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-750" data-t="750">a lot of great for prices. Not great for it's not great for cigarette smokers.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-755">12:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-755" data-t="755">Oh, it's awful. Have you know how much a pack is out there? Is this probably, like, $13.14</span> <span class="cue" id="t-759" data-t="759">probably more since I left, dude. Honestly, I have I have no idea, but it seems brutal.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-765" data-t="765">But, yeah, the the syntaxes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-766" data-t="766">are just,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-769" data-t="769">brutal out there.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-770">12:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-770" data-t="770">It's it's really great if you're working for a, paper Bitcoin company.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-775" data-t="775">New York is, like, the epicenter of that right now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-783">13:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-783" data-t="783">Is it? What what companies are out there? I mean, listen. I I haven't been following the paper Bitcoin</span> <span class="cue" id="t-788" data-t="788">except for the non KYC paper Bitcoin stuff as closely as you guys. So I I don't really know. Like Well, make it yeah. I mean, not there.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-795">13:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-795" data-t="795">Some of the newer ones, they're more, decentralized.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-798" data-t="798">Paper Bitcoin's a little bit more decentralized than it used to be.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-802" data-t="802">But, you know, until recently, the big one, and still the biggest, is BlackRock.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-806" data-t="806">So BlackRock's there on Wall Street. So that's a big Bitcoin present. I mean, you mentioned it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-812" data-t="812">The the current mayor, Adams, he,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-814" data-t="814">he has used Bitcoin</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-816">13:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-816" data-t="816">the way it was politically advantageous for him for the past few years. So he he gets Bitcoin. He he's not against it. He uses it when, you know, he needs non KYC fucking tickets to Turkey. Air airline tickets to Turkey. But Yeah. You know what I mean?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-833">13:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-833" data-t="833">Such a character, that guy.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-836">13:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-836" data-t="836">But the yeah. Exactly. So, you know, you pay for Bitcoins more decentralized,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-841" data-t="841">but it's still big for for BlackRock. But it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-848" data-t="848">I forgot where I was going with that, but,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-851">14:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-851" data-t="851">It it definitely I would consider it the epicenter</span> <span class="cue" id="t-854" data-t="854">of paper Bitcoin and I think it will continue to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-857" data-t="857">be. It there there have been some attempts to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-862" data-t="862">to go after New York,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-864" data-t="864">and replace it. So like Dan Held convinced,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-869" data-t="869">Francis Suarez to to use a Stacks thing. You remember that? And try and make Miami</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-875">14:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-875" data-t="875">a financial hub, but he learned the argument. Was on Stacks?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-879" data-t="879">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-880" data-t="880">Oh, jeez.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-881">14:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-881" data-t="881">Yeah. Big</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-883">14:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-883" data-t="883">Shit coin under shit coin. He said shit coin squared.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-887">14:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-887" data-t="887">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-888" data-t="888">yeah. I mean, he he learned the hard way that shit coining is not the way to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-896" data-t="896">retain or gain the title of financial capital of the world. But yeah, do you think that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-905" data-t="905">We're watching this process as people are coming to the conclusion that Bitcoin is one.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-912" data-t="912">Do you think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-918" data-t="918">that New York will be able to be disrupted</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-921">15:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-921" data-t="921">as the financial hub of the world? Or do you think with their adoption of of paper Bitcoin, is that is that what it takes for them to retain their spot?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-931">15:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-931" data-t="931">It's gonna be really, really hard to shake. You know? I I I think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-936" data-t="936">eventually,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-937" data-t="937">a new hub will emerge, but,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-940" data-t="940">you know, it's it's hard to shake the amount of capital that it's in</span> <span class="cue" id="t-944" data-t="944">it right now. And and, obviously, they're they're gonna try to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-948" data-t="948">get in on this crypto thing with the paper Bitcoin companies, with the exchanges that are out there already,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-954">15:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-954" data-t="954">hopping in on the trend and trying to retain their status. It's really gonna take a big player to really get behind it,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-961" data-t="961">and and create a new hub. But at the same time, it's not like the old paradigm where, like, you know, you had to go to the exchange to fucking physically settle stuff.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-972" data-t="972">You know, everything is distributed online through the Internet. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-976" data-t="976">we'll see. We'll see. I think, eventually,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-979" data-t="979">something will overtake it, but</span> <span class="cue" id="t-982" data-t="982">this is not gonna happen soon. It's all just gonna be</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-985">16:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-985" data-t="985">a steady decline as more options and options.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-990">16:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-990" data-t="990">Do you think that there's any other city in the world</span> <span class="cue" id="t-994" data-t="994">where,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-995" data-t="995">or any other bar in any other city that could be as I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-999" data-t="999">as iconic as as Pubkey where you, you know, you say, hey,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1004" data-t="1004">I'm gonna tweet every day until</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1007" data-t="1007">somebody on Wall Street or somebody in the paper Bitcoin industry meets me for a drink at PubKey.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1012">16:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1012" data-t="1012">Or guys like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1014" data-t="1014">I can't remember his name, but he's from Austin. He's, at the Bitcoin meetup there, but he was asking Aubrey Strobel</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1021" data-t="1021">to go on a date with him and that he was gonna be at PubKey. I like it. This is the you know, iconic</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1026" data-t="1026">it's an iconic</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1028" data-t="1028">bar in the capital of of capitalism.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1031" data-t="1031">Do you think that there's any place else that could replace that? Because until that, there's something more iconic than getting a beer with somebody at Pub Key. New York is number one.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1039">17:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1039" data-t="1039">But with the socialist mayor,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1042" data-t="1042">if he wins They're gonna be a the general election, this that's gonna definitely put I mean, Matthew Crowder is gonna have a field day with people going to a socialist city,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1053" data-t="1053">to hang out with influencers. Pledger is gonna have a field day with that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1057" data-t="1057">that kind of behavior.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1058">17:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1058" data-t="1058">A 100%.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1059" data-t="1059">Pledger is gonna be so fucking grumpy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1062" data-t="1062">He's gonna call it out right away. He might do a tweet thread.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1065" data-t="1065">But in terms of PubKey,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1067" data-t="1067">I don't know. I feel like they sort of see the writing on the wall too.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1070" data-t="1070">They sort of know the power of distributed networks. I think they're trying to branch out to some other cities. I think DC is</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1077">17:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1077" data-t="1077">for sure on the way very soon.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1080" data-t="1080">After that Everybody's I think I think, you know, Tom is the founder over there. He's basically said he's willing to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1087" data-t="1087">expand to basically any city in the world except for Boston.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1091" data-t="1091">So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1092" data-t="1092">we'll see. I I hope to see some other competitors too, give them a little bit of a run for their money. But</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1098">18:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1098" data-t="1098">Evdia.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1100" data-t="1100">Everybody's relocating to Washington. Even the paper Bitcoiners are relocating. Are you gonna</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1105" data-t="1105">re relocate to Washington? Because I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1109" data-t="1109">people talk about the Cantillionaire</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1111" data-t="1111">effect. I think Bitcoiners</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1113" data-t="1113">are realizing</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1115">18:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1115" data-t="1115">that you do it's literal proximity to the money printer. So they're all trying to get as close to the White House. Yeah. And the Federal Reserve, they're, like, encircling. So Bitcoiners are cornering</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1125" data-t="1125">the fiat system. They've got it cornered</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1128" data-t="1128">in Washington, DC. They've got it cornered at the fed and they've got it cornered, you know, at the CIA. They've got it cornered at the FBI. Bitcoiners are closing in and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1139" data-t="1139">we're</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1140" data-t="1140">we're gonna fix this. You know, Bitcoin's gonna fix all these departments. It's gonna fix the government. It's gonna fix the PIA system. So are are you getting in on that? Are you going to, like, Bitcoin policy institute summits and, like, hanging out in DC</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1153">19:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1153" data-t="1153">so you can get close to the mind printer and fix it with those who's so, I mean, I'm I'm gonna be honest. Like, the thought has crossed my mind.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1161" data-t="1161">So the first Bitcoin Policy Summit</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1165" data-t="1165">I got invited to was the one with,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1169" data-t="1169">senator Lummis. So that was the last one.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1172" data-t="1172">And then she went to PubKey and did a little event and, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1177" data-t="1177">I thought she was gonna go pay with Bitcoin, you know, and then we get a little transaction</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1181">19:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1181" data-t="1181">over Zeus. Right? And what does this bitch do?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1185" data-t="1185">She pays her she pays no. Not Tether. No. You you you maybe worse. Maybe worse, she pays with cash. And she's like, I'm spending my dollars and I'm holding my Bitcoin. And I'm like, come on. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Are you talking trash about cash, bro?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1200">19:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1200" data-t="1200">Cash is that's why cash is private. Like, they're trying to take cash away from us, and you're you're disparaging it. I mean, I mean Everybody's yeah. Yeah. You're a lightning guy. Everybody's gotta shoulder bags. But Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. Listen.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1212">20:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1212" data-t="1212">Obviously, Cash has amazing properties. They're itching to take it away from us. But, you know, at least Tether, you know, we keep it in the family. You know? Who's they? Easy. I'll offer him. Who's they? Who's they?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1225" data-t="1225">Oh, that's a good question. Listen, I'm not sure if it's advisable for me to say who. I'm not sure if I have enough clout to to say who.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1234" data-t="1234">I think I I might see some repercussions.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1237" data-t="1237">Maybe next year if if Zeus does enough sales, gets enough cloud. The yeah. The Bitcoin the monetary Maximus.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1243">20:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1243" data-t="1243">Monetary Maximus in Bitcoin. That's Zoom.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1246">20:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1246" data-t="1246">Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a good enough answer for now, I guess.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1254">20:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1254" data-t="1254">Yeah. Yeah. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1257" data-t="1257">go on and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1259" data-t="1259">Oh, okay. Well, you're you're talking about</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1261">21:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1261" data-t="1261">is hot. So, like, we're already back on track. Policy summit. But there's another one going on right now.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1267" data-t="1267">But then</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1269" data-t="1269">Richard invited me to the show, and I'm like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1272" data-t="1272">well, I'm not gonna be recording the show fucking down in DC. So I I I told him to buzz off.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1277" data-t="1277">And, you know, honestly, it's been a great conversation so far. And and just to be frank, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1284" data-t="1284">I just don't think that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1286">21:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1286" data-t="1286">the favors that would be able to be returned to me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1291" data-t="1291">in,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1292" data-t="1292">you know, to correspond to the favors that they're asking</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1296">21:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1296" data-t="1296">from About value for value relationship.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1298">21:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1298" data-t="1298">Yeah. It's not value for value. I wouldn't get what I want out of I mean, listen. You know, I I could be a horny guy if I wanna hell, I named my company Zeus, and we all know how horny that guy was in mythology. But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1311" data-t="1311">you you you get you gotta pay up. You gotta pay up, and and my price isn't being hit. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1316" data-t="1316">you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1317" data-t="1317">we'll see. Maybe another offer comes on the table. Maybe I make my way down to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1321" data-t="1321">BPI, Washington, DC. You know? But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1325" data-t="1325">right now, it's not doing it for me.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1327">22:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1327" data-t="1327">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1328" data-t="1328">TBD.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1331">22:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1331" data-t="1331">How would you feel if Dennis Porter gave you an offer, similar offer?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1339">22:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1339" data-t="1339">Richard, Richard, Richard. Always asking the hard hitting questions.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1343" data-t="1343">I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1345" data-t="1345">I can't lie to you. I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1349" data-t="1349">we know the aura, the pull that Dennis</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1351" data-t="1351">has when he comes knocking.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1354" data-t="1354">Realistically,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1357">22:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1357" data-t="1357">you know, I I I gotta be a little humble here. So I I don't think I will resist, but we'll see. We'll see. I've</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1363" data-t="1363">had a couple convos</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1364" data-t="1364">with with Dennis, you know, not so sexual in nature.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1368" data-t="1368">But</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1370">22:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1370" data-t="1370">Are you disappointed by that?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1374">22:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1374" data-t="1374">I mean, may maybe, but at the same time, what can I offer him? I don't live in DC. I'm not,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1381" data-t="1381">you know, amongst the Right. Those ranks than the politics. There's there's other people that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1386" data-t="1386">probably more attractive to him right now. Yeah. That's for I don't blame him. I don't blame him. He's a man on a mission. You know? He's he's trying to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1394" data-t="1394">get us to hyper Bitcoinization</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1396">23:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1396" data-t="1396">and, you know, he sees a path, and I'm sort of the other opposite direction. He's he's also gone very hard in on his support for running knots and, filters. And this is, you know, the Bitcoin policy in Stupel, first of all.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1411" data-t="1411">It began</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1412" data-t="1412">with a standing ovation,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1414" data-t="1414">for the Genius Act because everybody at the, the policy institutes are very,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1420" data-t="1420">very supportive</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1421" data-t="1421">of Stablecoins.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1422">23:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1422" data-t="1422">What the hell is the Genius Act? It's a Stablecoin legislation.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1426">23:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1426" data-t="1426">Sounds like it sounds like everything. It was just free,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1430">23:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1430" data-t="1430">free, repairs</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1431" data-t="1431">on their Apple products, the Genius Act. Yeah. There you go. It's modernizing</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1436">23:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1436" data-t="1436">the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1438" data-t="1438">US dollar system.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1440" data-t="1440">It's very</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1442" data-t="1442">some politicians say it's bullish for Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1444" data-t="1444">Some,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1446" data-t="1446">I think Dennis believes it's bullish for Bitcoin. Yes. Yes. Big time. Big time.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1452">24:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1452" data-t="1452">Interesting.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1453">24:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1453" data-t="1453">And it's one of the big</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1455" data-t="1455">topics of conversation this week about the policy institute,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1458" data-t="1458">summit</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1460" data-t="1460">is,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1461" data-t="1461">this mempool policy. So there's, like, a big you know, the controversy between Corbynists and the Nazis.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1467" data-t="1467">Grass fed me, yeah. And, and Rob Hamilton was tweeting about,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1472">24:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1472" data-t="1472">it being the mempool policy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1474" data-t="1474">summit</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1475" data-t="1475">and all the things that we're gonna talk about and Grass fed Mechanic</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1479" data-t="1479">was immediately very furious about this. And he he was he considered that this tweet, an attack on Bitcoin,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1487" data-t="1487">but it but it sparked the converse. It sparked the conversation.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1490" data-t="1490">And</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1491">24:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1491" data-t="1491">other than Dennis Porter, there's nobody in Washington who is a knots runner. It is all the people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1499" data-t="1499">surrounding the White House and the Federal Reserve are are cornists.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1503" data-t="1503">So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1504" data-t="1504">you know, what do you think about that development?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1507" data-t="1507">And do you think this knots is, you know, it's up to 14%,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1510" data-t="1510">almost of the nodes.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1512">25:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1512" data-t="1512">Do you think that this is legitimate? Do you think this is, like, a a bulk organization</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1517" data-t="1517">of node clients?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1521">25:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1521" data-t="1521">Maybe. And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1522" data-t="1522">on one hand, it's probably not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1525" data-t="1525">a bad thing. It's probably pretty good to get some diversity in clients. I mean, hell, am I gonna run knots? No. What are you fucking nuts? But the same time for people. Notes. Yeah. I think I think we should ask that question at the, the beginning of every episode is which node implementation you run.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1541">25:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1541" data-t="1541">So what people can determine whether they wanna listen to the episode or not. Because you know how people are these days. Sure thing. Well, I'll do it right now on Bitcoin Core and on BTCD.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1551" data-t="1551">Have you have you ever considered running Bugle Core?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1554">25:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1554" data-t="1554">I took a look at the code and, you know, I I was thinking it was looking pretty good. I like the code base it's based on, obviously.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1563" data-t="1563">But, you know, I was thinking about making some commits commits myself before I actually</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1567" data-t="1567">ran it on any critical infrastructure.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1569" data-t="1569">So we'll see. Hopefully, I could push some stuff that's worthwhile.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1574">26:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1574" data-t="1574">Yeah. If you wanted to make some commits to it, I would</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1577">26:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1577" data-t="1577">love that, actually. That'd be great. That'd be great. Do you guys have, like, a new logo for the launcher? What's it look like when I install it? I haven't seen that part of the code base.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1585">26:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1585" data-t="1585">We will, we yeah. We can connect on this,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1590" data-t="1590">on the details</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1591" data-t="1591">sometime,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1592" data-t="1592">but I think Mike, my question high level, what would it take</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1596" data-t="1596">for BugleCore</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1597" data-t="1597">to be the official node of, like, a z wallet? So people would know, like, if they wanna pick a lightning wallet that it's they're using a a node that they trust and that they verify for themselves and that they they can believe in. It's not just, you know, what could the self custody if you don't get to run your own node?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1616">26:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1616" data-t="1616">Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, it's definitely something I've entertained</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1620" data-t="1620">as a thought. Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1621" data-t="1621">when I think about BugleCore and I think about, you know, what shared values that that we have, you know, as friends right here on this podcast, I think, like, something that really resonates</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1631" data-t="1631">with me and I know resonates with you guys for sure is that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1634" data-t="1634">we all think vaping is gay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1637" data-t="1637">If there was some way that I I'm I'm not sure the technology is there yet,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1643">27:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1643" data-t="1643">but if there were some way we can just, like, disconnect or or filter</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1646" data-t="1646">out</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1647" data-t="1647">peers that were vapers,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1650" data-t="1650">That would be a really appealing feature to me. And, you know, if we lose revenue from</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1657" data-t="1657">Zeus users that vape,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1660" data-t="1660">you know, so be it. You know? Hopefully, we get some, you</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1664">27:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1664" data-t="1664">know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1665" data-t="1665">some cigarette smokers, cigars,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1668" data-t="1668">even people who do ZINs are are all preferable</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1670" data-t="1670">to vapers.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1673">27:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1673" data-t="1673">Vapors are like the the scourge</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1676" data-t="1676">of the earth. And like, I think this is something Hitler got wrong</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1680" data-t="1680">severely is you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1684" data-t="1684">He was going after the Jews,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1687" data-t="1687">which</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1688" data-t="1688">is really stupid. So it's like, okay, you're gonna go after the people that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1693">28:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1693" data-t="1693">The class of people that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1695" data-t="1695">exclusively know how to make good movies</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1697" data-t="1697">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1698" data-t="1698">do your taxes. You're gonna remove them from society. It's pretty fucking retarded in my opinion.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1704" data-t="1704">But he never went after the vapers. And I think Germany wouldn't be such a pathetic country today</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1710" data-t="1710">if Hitler had realized</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1712">28:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1712" data-t="1712">the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1713" data-t="1713">real group that he should have gone after and eliminated from polite society was the vapers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1719" data-t="1719">They are the they are the worst. That's an interesting theory.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1723">28:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1723" data-t="1723">I wouldn't go so far as saying that I want</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1726" data-t="1726">them eradicated or or even put in work camps or concentration camps or anything like that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1732" data-t="1732">But I would very much like to not hear from them, whether it be on the big network, on lightning, on Twitter, on Nasr, whatever. Just</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1740">28:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1740" data-t="1740">just make</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1741" data-t="1741">They can put them in camps, I guess, is fine. As long as my GAC's paying dollars aren't going towards it. Like, if you wanna do it, fund it yourself.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1750" data-t="1750">Do it. Start it now. I don't know. Whatever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1753" data-t="1753">But, yeah. It's also stupid. Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1755" data-t="1755">you're right, Richard. The dumb thing that Hitler did. It's like, if you're gonna go</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1760" data-t="1760">if you're gonna do a genocide, you you can't do it. Why would you do it against the Jews? Because you're gonna have to go to the The Hague, and you're not gonna be able to have a Jewish lawyer. So, like, you're gonna get you're gonna get the death penalty. That's a stupid it's you gotta be smarter about this. It's like the stupidest same thing with Iran. Iran just asked</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1778">29:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1778" data-t="1778">to legally arbitrate these attacks from Israel and The United States. It's like, you guys are fucked. Who's gonna represent you?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1786">29:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1786" data-t="1786">Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1787">29:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1787" data-t="1787">It's it's the stupidest</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1789" data-t="1789">fucking idea in statecraft</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1791" data-t="1791">ever to go after the Jews because you're</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1794" data-t="1794">you're essential</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1796" data-t="1796">essentially, your ability to function as a state</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1800" data-t="1800">is dependent on tax revenue.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1802">30:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1802" data-t="1802">And so if you take all the good accountants</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1804" data-t="1804">and you remove them,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1806" data-t="1806">like how the fuck are you gonna collect taxes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1808" data-t="1808">at the end of the day? It's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1810" data-t="1810">a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1811" data-t="1811">I mean,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1812">30:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1812" data-t="1812">it's just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1815" data-t="1815">it's a action that will only lead to dysfunction,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1818" data-t="1818">100%.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1822" data-t="1822">But Evan, you're a guy that does well under pressure.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1826">30:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1826" data-t="1826">You think?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1827">30:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1827" data-t="1827">Absolutely.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1830" data-t="1830">So you've got this</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1832" data-t="1832">lightning wallet</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1834" data-t="1834">that has cool graphics. I'm a user of it. I think I'm a daily user. I think I used it like three times today and every every transaction routed because my wife has been, doing better with the the node liquidity.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1847" data-t="1847">Nice.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1848" data-t="1848">But you're a man that does well under pressure because you're going around and you have you don't have, like, a big marketing team. Like, one of the biggest salesmen of your product is you.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1857">30:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1857" data-t="1857">Mhmm. And so you're having to go and you're having to demo your product.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1864" data-t="1864">And you know there's that chance where you just get stuck in the loop where the graphics are just spinning over and over and over again and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1872" data-t="1872">the transaction</span> <span class="cue" data-t="1872">doesn't route,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1874" data-t="1874">which just kills</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1875" data-t="1875">the sales process. Right? So you're under a lot of pressure frequently.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1879">31:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1879" data-t="1879">Mhmm. How do you deal with that pressure?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1883">31:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1883" data-t="1883">How do I deal with that pressure?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1886" data-t="1886">Well, first of all, I made sure that the graphics still look fucking awesome</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1891" data-t="1891">when the transaction fails.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1892" data-t="1892">So I I think that was paramount, making sure that, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1896" data-t="1896">even when you can't even connect your node via Tor network to your</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1901" data-t="1901">node in your bunker</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1902">31:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1902" data-t="1902">thousands of miles away, that you always get a cool graphic that was really sad, Zeus.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1908" data-t="1908">So we covered that, and then, you know, we had the ability to connect multiple wallets. You know? You can</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1914">31:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1914" data-t="1914">have a note on your phone, a remote note, and you could switch between them. Now you can even have a paper Bitcoin wallet. I don't I don't really care about I don't care about your wallet. I I wanna know how you deal with the pressure of of a potential deal. Yeah. How do you deal with it?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1928">32:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1928" data-t="1928">That is a great question.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1934" data-t="1934">I mean, really, if it's really crunch time, the big event, you know, rip a couple bogeys, you know, smoke a cigarette.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1940" data-t="1940">That'll help.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1942" data-t="1942">I really like drinking a lot of coffee and energy drinks, so that could get me a little anxious. So if I'm really using that to power through my week, I gotta counteract that too.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1953" data-t="1953">But I just just that and and and Jesus says What about what what about lowering your time preference? Oh, yeah. I love that. You know, you go into your settings when you're about to make a payment. You increase the time out. Thirty seconds, sixty seconds now. Let's let's go to a full two minutes, four minutes, eight minutes.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1973" data-t="1973">Transaction's gonna go through one way or the other.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1976">32:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1976" data-t="1976">Yeah. So the yeah. Literally, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1978" data-t="1978">protocol level Lowering your time preference. I was talking more,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1983" data-t="1983">metaphorically. But yeah. Right. They both they same thing. Same thing.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1988">33:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1988" data-t="1988">Yeah. I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1989" data-t="1989">physically, literally.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1990">33:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1990" data-t="1990">You know? What what is time? It sounds like you realize it's all about the user experience</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1996" data-t="1996">because failed payments is a part of life. But as long as you still have a cool, like, gift or a cool animation,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2003" data-t="2003">it's like, if you're gonna make me wait in the lobby, at least give me art.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2008">33:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2008" data-t="2008">Right. Right. And then while you're waiting, you know, you just gotta have subject matter to talk about. So You could you could put podcasts</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2015">33:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2015" data-t="2015">on like, you could pipe a podcast. So when somebody's waiting for their lightning transaction</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2020" data-t="2020">to go through or they're waiting for something else in their lightning wallet to fucking work like it's supposed to, you can watch a podcast in, like, the it's, like, the elevator music or, you know, the waiting,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2031">33:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2031" data-t="2031">when you're on on on a on hold on a call. You have a Bitcoin podcast playing in your app. That would be amazing. But, Rod, how many more enemies do you want me to make? You know? You called out all my fucking rivals at the start of the show. I I was addicted.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2043" data-t="2043">And now I'm gonna get in the ring with Fountain. Like, who who who who what am I gonna do next, dude? I'm gonna go after YouTube</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2050" data-t="2050">or whatever? What is this? Spotify, all the podcast apps?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2053">34:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2053" data-t="2053">Well, this is this is,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2055" data-t="2055">an important part</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2057" data-t="2057">of the Bitcoin ecosystem is everybody with a competing product arguing with each other. Like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2063">34:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2063" data-t="2063">Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2064">34:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2064" data-t="2064">Yep. You know, samurai wasabi, they they did a lot of arguing.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2069">34:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2069" data-t="2069">Oh, constantly, dude. Oh, shit. And we and we did an event with you guys to help support samurai, but, you know, fully expecting them to come out and say, oh, yeah. Thanks. But you guys are a bunch of fags. So, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2082" data-t="2082">but</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2083" data-t="2083">that's that's what happens when you defend liberty, you defend scoundrels. It's okay.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2089">34:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2089" data-t="2089">Yeah. I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2090" data-t="2090">do you anticipate and do you see the need for more arguing amongst the different Lightning devs and wallet users or or makers or whatever you call it? I mean, I think one of the things that we've really seen success with on the Lightning Network is zaps on Nostr</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2106">35:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2106" data-t="2106">and, being able to zap a person for their for their post or their note on Nostr. And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2112" data-t="2112">if we're not arguing about things on Nostr, and it's all just a kumbaya</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2116" data-t="2116">circle jerk, there's only so many zaps that could get thrown around. But if you have people slamming each other about their wallet implementation or the privacy trade offs, the UX, the graphics,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2126" data-t="2126">and, you can throw zaps left and right about who's got the best alley oops and dunks.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2131" data-t="2131">I think we're all gonna really benefit.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2134">35:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2134" data-t="2134">So lightning</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2136" data-t="2136">could benefit from their own Luke and mechanic.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2139" data-t="2139">Somebody to stir up some drama and get a a huge,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2143" data-t="2143">like, just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2145" data-t="2145">timeline</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2146" data-t="2146">sucking,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2147">35:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2147" data-t="2147">fucking</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2148" data-t="2148">pointless debate about features, about, you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2152" data-t="2152">know, l n URL versus</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2154" data-t="2154">Bolt or versus,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2156" data-t="2156">you know, the different there's different Lightning clients. Right? You got CLN. Right. Right. You got LND.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2162">36:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2162" data-t="2162">Something something to get people to look at Lightning again and care and care about it. You know, like, we we've had some good routes. You know? We were, you know, a few years back, duking it out with, and we threw some some punches back and forth. That was fun. No doubt. No doubt. It was really good. It was fun. I I still like those guys, even though, you know, we pulverized them. Maybe if I was on the other end, I wanna feel the same way. But we we we we still have, like, a couple of people who are feisty, fiery out there. I I think Blue Matt Joe Nakamoto.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2193" data-t="2193">Joe.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2194" data-t="2194">Yeah. Joe is very fiery. He is opinionated. He wears his heart on his sleeve too.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2199" data-t="2199">But, no, I was just thinking in terms of, like, lightning developers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2202" data-t="2202">Corallo definitely</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2204" data-t="2204">speaks his mind. He gets into fights.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2206">36:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2206" data-t="2206">But we need more of that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2208" data-t="2208">Adam Smith. Sam's yeah. Samson, if you wanna call him the lightning dev.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2212" data-t="2212">I guess, no. Yeah. That is a pretty big</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2214">36:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2214" data-t="2214">wallet that we built.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2217" data-t="2217">Samson is the memer</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2219" data-t="2219">for his lightning company. Like, that's what more of these lightning developers, like, BlueWallet should have, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2226" data-t="2226">an influencer or a memer,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2229">37:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2229" data-t="2229">you know, kind of doing stuff, like, promoting them on the timeline, deploying them at conferences, things like that. Did they have a I feel like they were involved in some beef, but I feel like they're mostly heads down working on stuff. Like, I think they've been trying to wire up Spark state train into their wallet or whatever. You know who's quiet is Moon Wallet. What do you think of Moon Wallet?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2248" data-t="2248">Oh, Moon Wallet. Moon Wallet fucking awesome UX when it came out, and then people realized where it hit the rails and those high fee environments. So that really sucked.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2257" data-t="2257">The inside baseball on that is I think they're working on an ARC implementation.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2262" data-t="2262">So they're all in on ARC, and I think they're just Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2265">37:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2265" data-t="2265">So speaking of below now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2268">37:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2268" data-t="2268">Speaking of ARC,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2271" data-t="2271">Ron and I were talking with another layer two</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2278" data-t="2278">person.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2279" data-t="2279">I guess he was just a shell. He was shelling for the company that was rolling out the layer two. I'm not gonna say who it was.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2285" data-t="2285">It it sounds similar to Arc. There's like 20</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2288">38:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2288" data-t="2288">layer twos that sound similar to Arc. Yeah. There's Arc, there's Spark, there's Fart. There's all these old twos. Yep.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2295">38:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2295" data-t="2295">So I wanna know your opinion. I think this is a really important question. We we asked the guy this and and he didn't really wanna answer it. I think it made him feel uncomfortable. And it's just sometimes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2306" data-t="2306">what you have to do as a journalist. But Yeah. What what is the gayest</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2311" data-t="2311">l</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2312" data-t="2312">two being proposed right now in the pipeline?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2321">38:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2321" data-t="2321">This is a really, really tough one. I I think we tried</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2325" data-t="2325">to duke it out on a smaller scale. We were duking out</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2329" data-t="2329">is Cash or no was e Cash gayer than Liquid?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2333">38:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2333" data-t="2333">And, obviously, I thought Liquid was I think it's, you know gayer. I think it I think it's Paul's thing.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2339">38:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2339" data-t="2339">Paul Storzick's strike chain is probably the gayest to me. Oh, yeah. I mean, a 100%. It's it's so gay. I mean and that's, like, a really</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2348" data-t="2348">it's really hard to get that title as the gayest of the l twos because you're going up against, like, David Marcus and the guy who tried to do the Libra Stacks.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2357">39:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2357" data-t="2357">Oh, and Stacks too. They're like, fuck those guys. They're fucking dicks. Stacks is really gay. Stacks is a really gay one, but I still yeah. I still still think Paul's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2366" data-t="2366">drive chain is the worst.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2368">39:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2368" data-t="2368">Yeah. It's like Paul's demeanor too in his gay arguments. It's, like, just really not good. And he's such a clever guy. He could be, like, doing so much better things with his life,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2377" data-t="2377">pushing forward this gay thing that's never even gonna get activated.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2381" data-t="2381">It's just really</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2382" data-t="2382">it's really gay.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2384">39:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2384" data-t="2384">Did you did you hang out with him at our event? He was there.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2388">39:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2388" data-t="2388">We talked outside the door. He was with, what's his name from, Bitfian, Robin Linus. Robin's really nice. That that guy looks crazy. He looks like a fucking Cuban porn star. I'm sure he has the latest left and right. But, no, Paul was funny. He was witty. He was nice. We he threw a couple of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2405" data-t="2405">witty remarks back and forth. I think he's a smart guy, but,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2409" data-t="2409">yeah, I just think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2412" data-t="2412">BIP three hundred and three zero one are</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2415" data-t="2415">pretty silly. And, his arguments against lightning,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2418" data-t="2418">I'm trying to</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2420">40:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2420" data-t="2420">derive it and say, oh, we gotta activate my thing. It's just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2423" data-t="2423">silly and bad approach.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2425" data-t="2425">It's not gonna get people on your side to activate it when you need broad consensus. Right?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2430">40:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2430" data-t="2430">Yeah. I mean, when I think of certain people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2433" data-t="2433">I just kinda get, like, these</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2436" data-t="2436">weird</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2437" data-t="2437">urges</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2438" data-t="2438">to, like, do certain things to them in person. You know? Like, when I think</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2443">40:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2443" data-t="2443">Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's like, what what do they call it? Those, those urges you shouldn't act on?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2450">40:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2450" data-t="2450">Well, I think these are, like it is they're, like, intuitive urges. I think they're good. But, like, when I think of David Bailey, I wanna twist his nipples. You know what I mean? Right. Right. I mean,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2460">40:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2460" data-t="2460">you should gut use that as, like, a guide and know, like, okay. Maybe</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2464" data-t="2464">you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2465" data-t="2465">shouldn't</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2466" data-t="2466">team up or or or attach your,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2469" data-t="2469">your sale to this person and whatever, but</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2472">41:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2472" data-t="2472">probably wouldn't really want to twist his nipples, would you? Not in a mean way. You know, just in a friendly way. Mhmm. Just like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2479" data-t="2479">you know, just like as, like, the first introduction. Before I shake his hand,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2482" data-t="2482">you might know it's me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2484" data-t="2484">already, but just walk up, twist his nipples. But when I think when I think of Paul Stork</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2491" data-t="2491">when I think of Paul Stork, I think I think he just needs to be tickled a little bit. You know what I mean?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2497">41:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2497" data-t="2497">Yeah. Yeah. Just need to walk up to him. Oh, I'm telling you. He's, like, sweet he was super cordial in person. He was not you know, the times I've met him. I think I met him, you know, earlier back in Miami too. He's, like, he's a nice guy. Just like when you get in the weeds on stuff, he's just, like, too prickly. He's, like, he's in his corner. He's only trying to push this. He's just, like, too defensive about it. He lashes out at everything else.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2520" data-t="2520">I yeah. I think tickles tickles, maybe a hug even, could go a long way with someone like him. Yeah. Yeah. A lot Yeah. I think just a lot of people in this space are just a little too grumpy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2531" data-t="2531">And there's no there's no need to be grumpy. It's When you introduce yourself</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2536">42:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2536" data-t="2536">for the first time as a plaid or a pioneer, whoever, tomato dough, you should just give him a titty twister. Just don't even say hi. Just give him a titty twister, and then, like, just, like, like, he would shake his hand.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2547">42:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2547" data-t="2547">And everybody if everybody did that, he just he'd stop being grumpy, I think. And, Rod, you know the thing with Matt is Matt always has, like, one button too many unbuttoned on his shirt. You can get in there, dude. You can do skin to skin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2559" data-t="2559">I mean, I'm not endorsing. I I I love Matt. I don't want anything to happen to him physically like that. But if you're so inclined and you're gentle enough, the opportunity is there. That's all I'm saying.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2571">42:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2571" data-t="2571">He's oh, yeah. He's always got his his chest hair with, like it's shining because he's got tallow on it, and he's always got that showing through his shirts.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2579">42:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2579" data-t="2579">The tallow. That's pretty good. Is there anybody that you get weird urges thinking about,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2586" data-t="2586">Like, I was describing Other than Dennis?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2589" data-t="2589">Well, yeah. Explain your urge with Dennis.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2591">43:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2591" data-t="2591">He's just an attractive man. I mean, I feel like everyone's attracted to him. You know? It's nothing to be ashamed about.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2598">43:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2598" data-t="2598">But what is acting on that urge look like for you?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2604">43:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2604" data-t="2604">You know, probably</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2606" data-t="2606">Pub Key DC,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2609" data-t="2609">opens up, and then I start tweeting at him. It's day one of me tweeting at Dennis Porter to get</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2615" data-t="2615">a drink with me at</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2617" data-t="2617">PubKey DC.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2619" data-t="2619">Dennis, I'll get you the whale. You know what that comes with.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2624">43:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2624" data-t="2624">The problem with Dennis is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2625" data-t="2625">anybody anybody who wants to hang out with Dennis and, like, would tweet about, let's get a beer, pubkey.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2631" data-t="2631">Yeah. That's the guy Dennis that's the guy Dennis knows he doesn't need. He's got he's gotta go out there he's gotta go out there and get the people who are playing hard to get. He's gonna get the politicians. He's always looking forward. Right. Right. Like, you know, you could you could try to win him over with a ceramic frog filled with,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2647">44:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2647" data-t="2647">mezcal, but it's only gonna go so far.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2650" data-t="2650">So we'll see. You know, maybe post hyperbitcoinization,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2653" data-t="2653">it could happen. But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2655" data-t="2655">yeah. Unfortunately, we're just talking dreams here. We're just talking dreams, you know, if I were to shoot my shot.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2660">44:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2660" data-t="2660">Unfortunately,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2662" data-t="2662">buying Dennis a drink doesn't pay for his, private jet expenses.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2667" data-t="2667">He's got some important work to do. So he's got to keep that that puppy fueled at all times. You know what I mean? I think he's on a private jet now? He's he's onto that grind?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2675" data-t="2675">No way. Who was it who was it that was talking shit about him in Vegas, Rod,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2680" data-t="2680">saying that he was flying economy and then he tweeted a picture of his private jet in response.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2686">44:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2686" data-t="2686">That was paid. That was Teddy Bitcoins fucking,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2690" data-t="2690">Dennis Porter</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2692" data-t="2692">absolutely</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2693" data-t="2693">mocked</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2694" data-t="2694">Teddy Bitcoins</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2696" data-t="2696">on the timeline,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2698">44:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2698" data-t="2698">right to start the comp that was the kickoff to the Bitcoin conference. He was making fun of Dennis for for flying coach, and Dennis posted a picture of his jet and said, I fly private.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2709">45:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2709" data-t="2709">Wow. So he he actually posted about it. That's news to me. That's amazing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2714" data-t="2714">But, yo, with these Bitcoins,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2716" data-t="2716">he wasn't at the conference. I I feel like</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2719">45:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2719" data-t="2719">it's sort of No. I</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2720">45:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2720" data-t="2720">yeah. He wasn't. He wasn't. It sort of sort of detracts from the conference in a big way if he wasn't there. Well, he got a he got a lot of backlash for winning Mackenzie Madness. Like, a lot of like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2732" data-t="2732">Brady Swenson and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2734" data-t="2734">Corey Klipsen were really mad at him They were jealous. For winning.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2738" data-t="2738">Yeah. Like, Stacy Herbert was really mad</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2741" data-t="2741">at him for winning.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2742" data-t="2742">There's a lot of people that were really mad. Plutterer, of course, really mad. Oh, naturally.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2749">45:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2749" data-t="2749">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2751" data-t="2751">yeah. I think he was kind of afraid of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2754" data-t="2754">somebody trying to, like, beat him up or something because they were so mad that that he won and they didn't.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2761">46:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2761" data-t="2761">God. Chelsea is one hell of a hell of a drug. You gotta you gotta</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2766" data-t="2766">stay humble.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2767">46:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2767" data-t="2767">It's there's a lot of you know?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2770">46:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2770" data-t="2770">It's a real problem in Podkoff, you know, this this kind of, competitive nature. You know what I mean?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2776">46:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2776" data-t="2776">Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's cutthroat out there. You know? Every everyone wants to be the guy who ushers in over Bitcoinization.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2782" data-t="2782">Everyone wants to be the guy that, you know, gets the president</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2786" data-t="2786">to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2788" data-t="2788">just sign into law, just executive order. Bitcoin's the money now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2793">46:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2793" data-t="2793">Ev, yeah,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2794" data-t="2794">The competition</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2795" data-t="2795">is, I think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2797" data-t="2797">all it's it's getting more,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2800" data-t="2800">it's getting more monetized, and it's getting more exciting. It's getting more fierce.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2804" data-t="2804">I think paper Bitcoin,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2806">46:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2806" data-t="2806">is gonna be a huge combo. Who's got the best bit you know, paper Bitcoin meme stock? Is it MetaPlay in it? That's who I think. That's my my, my pick.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2815" data-t="2815">MicroStrategy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2816" data-t="2816">of course, is like, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2818" data-t="2818">micro strategy dominance, if maybe for Bitcoin's gonna be strong forever, but who are, like, some of these other paper Bitcoin companies</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2825" data-t="2825">with big influencer investments,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2827" data-t="2827">they might not they must might not cut it.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2830">47:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2830" data-t="2830">I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2832" data-t="2832">what is it?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2835" data-t="2835">What are they called? The hotel</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2836" data-t="2836">stock?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2837" data-t="2837">Meta play in it. Meta play. Meta play is, like, probably a pretty good pick for the ones that are existing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2843" data-t="2843">right now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2844">47:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2844" data-t="2844">But you gotta think with, like, this genius thing, like, there's gonna be a lot of incumbent players from, like, the legacy financial system that come in and really give everyone else a run for their money. Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2855" data-t="2855">do you think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2856" data-t="2856">like, Jamie Dimon is not gonna come out swinging and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2860" data-t="2860">go for the crown right there? He's like, oh, my buddy Larry Schmidt, you know, he's got this ETF going on. I'm gonna come with the hammer and really do the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2869" data-t="2869">premier stable coin. That's who I got my money on. And, you know, Jamie Dimon, also Greek.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2874" data-t="2874">Not that I claim him like that. He's gonna he's gonna bust some balls. He's he's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2880">48:00</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2880" data-t="2880">he's right across the street from the fed. He's all tied in. I'm not particularly worried about it right now. I think</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2886">48:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2886" data-t="2886">the Bitcoiners have an edge, like a major edge. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2891" data-t="2891">Jamie Dimon</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2893">48:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2893" data-t="2893">is dangerous only when he starts listening to forty hours of Bitcoin podcasts a week. Right. And it doesn't sound like he is. He said Bitcoin's gonna be shut off in ten years today.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2902">48:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2902" data-t="2902">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2903" data-t="2903">you'll know when things are getting real</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2907" data-t="2907">when JP Morgan starts hiring Bitcoin podcasters</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2910" data-t="2910">like all these treasury companies are.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2913">48:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2913" data-t="2913">Yep. If they do Who do you think that would be a really good fit for them on their board? Like, if they did more crypto focused shit.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2923">48:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2923" data-t="2923">Yeah. I think, like, probably, like, more of a Michelle Weekly. Michelle Weekly. Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2929" data-t="2929">Morgan Richard, Michelle Weekly,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2932" data-t="2932">maybe Aubrey Strobel,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2936" data-t="2936">Dennis Porter.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2937" data-t="2937">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2940" data-t="2940">Who do you think?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2942">49:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2942" data-t="2942">Oh, it's a tough call. I don't know who's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2945" data-t="2945">who's brushed up with that sort of side of the world, but still</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2949" data-t="2949">deep into the Bitcoin stuff? I don't know.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2952">49:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2952" data-t="2952">Do you have a daily,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2954">49:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2954" data-t="2954">like, Carter?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2957">49:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2957" data-t="2957">Those are great choices.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2959" data-t="2959">Corey. I I I feel like I feel like, someone to not overlook is my boy, Alex Thorne. He's a Galaxy Digital. You know? Alex Thorne. Alex Thorne. Alex Fleishman.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2970" data-t="2970">Well, yeah. These are these are heavy hitters. Like, you know, some of our New York crew, you gotta</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2975">49:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2975" data-t="2975">That's right.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2976" data-t="2976">The</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2978" data-t="2978">the other secret weapon that Bitcoiners have right now</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2982" data-t="2982">is Tether on lightning.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2984" data-t="2984">How excited are you for Tether</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2986" data-t="2986">on lightning? How is how is that going to how do you how do you build that into Zeus? Because,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2992">49:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2992" data-t="2992">it's gonna be popular.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2993" data-t="2993">Oh, yeah. It's probably gonna be more popular than than Cashew.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2997">49:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2997" data-t="2997">Yeah. Probably. Probably. But at the same time, I'm telling you, don't write off Jamie Dimon, dude. I mean, yeah, Tether's the most popular company in the world, most successful crypto company in the world by far. But Jamie Dimon gets in, you're gonna be like, oh, fuck Tether. I want that JPMorgan</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3014" data-t="3014">coin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3015" data-t="3015">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3016" data-t="3016">maybe we should be thinking about how how we get that JP Morgan coin into Zeus instead. And I don't know. Maybe Cashew could be a really good route for it instead of, going on to Taproot assets. That's an idea.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3029">50:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3029" data-t="3029">You think you think the JP Morgan coin is going to be an attractive asset? You think people are gonna want JP Morgan</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3035" data-t="3035">coin? After all this,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3037" data-t="3037">after all the memes,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3038" data-t="3038">you think that the JP Morgan coin meme is gonna</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3042" data-t="3042">people are gonna be like, hell, yes. That's what I want. Or do you think they're gonna want,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3046" data-t="3046">like, crazy, like, super fit dude who's like a cypherpunk with a weird accent that they can't quite place and who lives in the The Caribbean</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3055">50:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3055" data-t="3055">and fucking</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3057" data-t="3057">has, like, four employees?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3058" data-t="3058">JPMorgan's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3059" data-t="3059">got, like, a bazillion employees. He's got too much overhead.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3063">51:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3063" data-t="3063">Nah. Well, dude, well, you just gotta pull a trump card. And you know what I would do? I would call Kale up.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3068" data-t="3068">You have that motherfucker and his orange</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3071" data-t="3071">balaclava</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3072" data-t="3072">on stage</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3075" data-t="3075">next to Jamie Dimon.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3076" data-t="3076">That's your trump card, dude. Fuck,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3078">51:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3078" data-t="3078">Paul Paulo.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3080" data-t="3080">I know his face. I know his name. I might as well know his SSN. I don't know who the fuck Kala is, honestly.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3087" data-t="3087">So,</span> <span class="cue" data-t="3087">yeah, you you can trump that shit. No. JPMorgan</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3090">51:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3090" data-t="3090">needs an influencer for him who's a NIM.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3095">51:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3095" data-t="3095">Yeah. That would be good. That would be good. Maybe they could get Shams from, from Pubkey. You know Shams? It says Shams tastic a lot. There could be synergy there. They're both New York. You know? Shams worked in</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3107" data-t="3107">financial world a little bit.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3110">51:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3110" data-t="3110">You get that guy that works at Foundry.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3116" data-t="3116">Cool. You know, I I forgot what his name is. He's he's the guy that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3119" data-t="3119">speaks with the mask and, wears gloves because he doesn't want them getting his fingerprints.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3125">52:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3125" data-t="3125">Yeah. Something someone of that caliber. Someone who does not have their real face as their profile picture.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3132" data-t="3132">I don't know. Like, maybe</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3133" data-t="3133">maybe you start small. Maybe you don't get, like, a super techy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3138" data-t="3138">cyberpunk who's coding it up. Maybe you just focus it on comms. Maybe you get, like, a credentialed</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3144" data-t="3144">journalist.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3146" data-t="3146">You know, may maybe you get a Rod Palmer or Dick Greaser that just do comms for the crypto shit at JPMorgan.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3152">52:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3152" data-t="3152">But at the same time, I know you guys would demand a lot. I I don't think they they even</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3157" data-t="3157">produce that many cigarettes in a year to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3160" data-t="3160">pay you guys off additionally.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3162">52:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3162" data-t="3162">I don't think JPMorgan</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3163" data-t="3163">could ever meet my demands</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3165" data-t="3165">of what I would require to work for them. On day one, I'd walk in with a chainsaw</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3171" data-t="3171">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3173" data-t="3173">HR would be fucking gone.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3176" data-t="3176">HR would be gone.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3180">52:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3180" data-t="3180">Which is so many employees to just get rid of HR. Like, that's that's so much impossible.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3185">53:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3185" data-t="3185">Why?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3187">53:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3187" data-t="3187">You know, corporate</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3188" data-t="3188">culture. You know, they're publicly traded too. Like, get rid of HR. Is he gonna really roll the dice and say, hey. Our Bitcoin earnings are gonna out. HR HR is, like, the worst thing ever. It is the worst thing ever because these these women,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3201">53:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3201" data-t="3201">mostly white women,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3203" data-t="3203">have gone in and created a position for themselves that's completely worthless.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3207" data-t="3207">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3208" data-t="3208">they they sell themselves to the employer</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3212" data-t="3212">as being protective of their business. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3215" data-t="3215">They're like, we need to protect you. And then then they they kinda cackle behind the scenes</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3220">53:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3220" data-t="3220">talking about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3222" data-t="3222">how they can implement all these policies</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3226" data-t="3226">that are really bad for the employer and super gay. They're like, how can we make this work environment as gay as possible?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3232" data-t="3232">And then they go to the employee</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3234" data-t="3234">and sell themselves to the employee like, hey, we're here for you. We'll listen to your feelings,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3240" data-t="3240">you know, whatever, whatever.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3242">54:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3242" data-t="3242">And they're just snitching on their employees</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3246" data-t="3246">to their,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3247" data-t="3247">the other people in the company, the the people running it essentially.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3252" data-t="3252">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3253" data-t="3253">they're, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3254" data-t="3254">pretending, like, they actually wanna give these people fucking raises. So these people are like, oh, I need to get so</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3259">54:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3259" data-t="3259">you don't fucking need them</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3262" data-t="3262">in both sides of the company, but the the employee, the, the labor and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3267" data-t="3267">the capital</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3268" data-t="3268">executives</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3270" data-t="3270">have been sold on this worthless position, and they just make everything gayer and and less productive. So I would date one You don't think you could fix HR from the inside?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3279">54:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3279" data-t="3279">You don't think you could have, like, HR having meetings</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3282" data-t="3282">about, like</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3283">54:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3283" data-t="3283">Oh, Elon Musk just tried podcast listening. With an army full of broccoli haircut. Elon Musk just took on HR with a broccoli haircut army of AI zoomers, and they couldn't take down HR. We thought after Trump got elected,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3296" data-t="3296">we all thought that HR was toast. They they were gonna be, like you said, going through with the, chainsaw with Elon with the fucking flamethrower,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3304" data-t="3304">throwing the HR out. And just in the deep state is HR. Like, they listen to everything. They they tell you that they you need they they're protecting you. They tell you that they're doing this for your own good, that they're doing it for the best of the country. And then they use your, your data</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3319" data-t="3319">and your feelings</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3321" data-t="3321">and your information against you and they snitch. They're spooks. HR,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3326" data-t="3326">CIA, they're all spooks. And Elon Musk took a chainsaw to it and he got rejected.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3332">55:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3332" data-t="3332">So</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3333">55:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3333" data-t="3333">that is that is they're stronger than we thought. It's a bigger force than we thought. Correct. You have to abolish it. There there's no middle ground on this one. It's either you're fully cocked, you have HR, or you don't.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3346" data-t="3346">And, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3347" data-t="3347">look at the Bitcoin ecosystem. Look at HRF.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3351" data-t="3351">They try to act as the HR</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3354" data-t="3354">for the dissidents</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3355" data-t="3355">around the world.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3358">55:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3358" data-t="3358">They're like, Hey, we'll give you money, but you have to give us KYC.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3364">56:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3364" data-t="3364">True.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3367">56:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3367" data-t="3367">Yep. HR loves getting everybody's KYC. They get they get everybody's KYC.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3372" data-t="3372">That's, like, one of their favorite jobs.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3375" data-t="3375">But anyways,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3378">56:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3378" data-t="3378">Yeah. The rest of your demand, what else would you demand, Dick?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3381">56:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3381" data-t="3381">There there needs to also be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3385" data-t="3385">somebody, like, super hot</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3389" data-t="3389">acting as kinda like one of the the frontline influencers. So I would I would nominate Kaylee Welch for that. Oh, total babe. Good choice.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3397" data-t="3397">You would need to smoke be able to smoke inside the offices.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3402">56:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3402" data-t="3402">Oh, yeah. That that doesn't even have to be said. Yeah. Of course, dude. Fuck.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3407">56:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3407" data-t="3407">There there has to be a whole department created</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3412" data-t="3412">for maintaining all the typewriters that will be used.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3416" data-t="3416">So you get rid of the HR. I guess you could repurpose them into cleaning typewriters and maintenance in them. You can retrain them on useful skills.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3427">57:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3427" data-t="3427">What else? Would we fire the vapers or try to rehabilitate</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3431">57:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3431" data-t="3431">them? That's a good point. Yes. No. Yeah. I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3435" data-t="3435">I don't know.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3438" data-t="3438">I I know it sounds really callous to say this, but I I came to this conclusion. The door.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3443" data-t="3443">Yeah. I came I came to this conclusion after being around you ever hang around Shinobi and get a vape cloud in your face?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3450">57:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3450" data-t="3450">Oh, god. No. I try to hang with him,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3454" data-t="3454">when he can't be smoking. We can't be hitting the vape, you know, under professional</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3459" data-t="3459">pretenses.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3461" data-t="3461">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3462" data-t="3462">Sheesh. I I can't even imagine. Could you imagine the smell? Have have you been hit with one of those clots? What what flavors does he even like that guy? I I don't know, but I don't remember the flavors, but it was gross.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3473" data-t="3473">God.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3474">57:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3474" data-t="3474">So yeah. Like Rod said, send send Shinobi and all the vapers that work at JP Morgan down to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3481" data-t="3481">El Salvador.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3483" data-t="3483">No re that I guess that's their rehabilitation.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3486" data-t="3486">We just don't hear from them again. And they do jumping jacks in that giant prison.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3493">58:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3493" data-t="3493">I like that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3494" data-t="3494">I like that. Plus that fuels the circular economy, you know, El Salvador and Bitcoin and all. Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3500">58:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3500" data-t="3500">Trump's got all the shit wrong</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3503" data-t="3503">about deporting all these Mexicans. He could he's gotta go and deport the vapers.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3507">58:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3507" data-t="3507">Yeah. 100%.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3510" data-t="3510">100.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3512">58:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3512" data-t="3512">We're roughly an hour in. So have you have you ever listened to one of our interview shows before?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3519">58:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3519" data-t="3519">I listened</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3521" data-t="3521">to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3522" data-t="3522">the ones with,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3524" data-t="3524">or their most latest one with fundamentals.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3527" data-t="3527">I listened to the latest one with</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3532" data-t="3532">what's the guy,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3533">58:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3533" data-t="3533">the guy the big guy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3535" data-t="3535">the tan guy. He's got the beard. He looks homeless most of the time. Oh, John Seth. Yeah. Listen to that one. John Seth. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great one. Oh, man. He's he's such a sharp guy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3547" data-t="3547">Yeah. Love John Seth. He's great.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3551" data-t="3551">And then yeah. Yeah. I think those are the only two interview ones I listened to so far.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3557">59:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3557" data-t="3557">Hell, yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3559" data-t="3559">Well, we we kinda have a ritual.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3561" data-t="3561">Before we go into the ritual, Rod, do you got you got anything else you wanna talk chat about?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3567">59:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3567" data-t="3567">No. No. I just wanted to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3570" data-t="3570">to wrap up on, like, the paper bait queen. Like, how do you think we talked about the Geistel too, but, like, what Oh, and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3577" data-t="3577">see They don't wanna Yeah. That dominant that that was that competition.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3581">59:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3581" data-t="3581">It was way too cringe. You know? I I really like Tatum, but, you know, I I could only do so much cringe listening.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3588" data-t="3588">He's he's a character. He's one of the kind. No no one make me feel more cringe than Tatum.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3593">59:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3593" data-t="3593">He's looking for a girlfriend, man. I know Tatum Fine is a girlfriend.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3597" data-t="3597">He's an eligible</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3598" data-t="3598">bachelor.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3599" data-t="3599">You know? He's tall.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3602" data-t="3602">So, you know, those were two most important qualities.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3605" data-t="3605">Forklift certified?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3607">1:00:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3607" data-t="3607">Forklift. Yeah. That's huge, dude.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3610" data-t="3610">Huge.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3611">1:00:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3611" data-t="3611">So what what was cringe about it?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3613">1:00:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Evan Kaloudis</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3613" data-t="3613">Oh, just hate him. Just hate his personality. I'm like, his response is, he's just too much.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3619" data-t="3619">He he did, like, a comedy skit at the pub key party in Vegas, and oh my god, dude. I mean, I was it was, like, such an oscillation between me, like, dying hysterically and just being, like, so cringe. Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3631" data-t="3631">it's like cringe core. You know? It's like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3635" data-t="3635">some of the stuff, it just, like, gives you the heebie jeebies. It's like so some of those, like, Sam Hyde skits sometimes. It just, like, teeters too much. It makes you uncomfortable.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3647" data-t="3647">But, no, I'm looking forward to to more Tatum content. I just don't think I could do a full hour.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3654">1:00:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3654" data-t="3654">So you think it like, how would you rank as comedy?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3657" data-t="3657">Is it pretty good?</span></span></p> +