0:01Richard Greaser It is a time of chaos as we are officially in the fourth turning. There's war in The Middle East, riots in the streets, and even worse, every day, there's a new paper Bitcoin company. While lightning wallets are acting meek, running from the pressures of the state, there's one man who has planted his flag. Today, we are summoning the storm as Evan Kalupas joins us, the creator of Zeus Wallet.

0:31Richard Greaser He's the man bringing the ability to interface with the lightning network in a manner unparalleled by any other lightning wall. Phoenix, Breeze, Wall Of Satoshi, all these lightning wallet developers, they stay up at night terrorized by the image of the world's premier

0:50Richard Greaser graphics with no plans for support of securitized paper Bitcoin. Joining us today, Evan Kalupis. How you doing?

1:03Evan Kaloudis I'm doing great, boys. Thanks for having me back on the show.

1:07Richard Greaser It's, it's really a privilege and an honor. Been a while since we've done one of these, Rod. This is, the Beagles Behind the Podcast, the premier Bitcoin interview show. Like, how how lucky do you feel to be joining us today, Evan?

1:21Evan Kaloudis I mean, listen. Anytime I have the opportunity to go on one of my favorite podcast that I listen to, you know, regularly, part of my forty hours a week. You know, I I can't help but think that I'm blessed. So, you know, how many people can say that that they go on their favorite podcast themselves? Not many.

1:43Rod Palmer Yeah. It feels it feels great to be back doing this, and it feels great. You know, we we hung out in Vegas at the conference. We got to know it. You came to satirize the system. A midget came flying out of the ring,

1:56Evan Kaloudis crashed into you, spilled your beer. Just a little bit. Not not most of the beer. I want I want that to be on the record. Like, I'm not a big beer spilling guy. You know? Why? Why? You know? Plus, you know, it wasn't a full size guy. I mean, if it was a full wrestler, maybe I would've spilled more, but just a little splash. Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was it was unexpected, but you you handled it like a champ.

2:20Rod Palmer You're you're you're flexible. You're adaptable. That's what it takes to be, a lightning entrepreneur. But You gotta you know?

2:30Evan Kaloudis First and foremost, you gotta you gotta survive.

2:35Rod Palmer Yeah. Absolutely. And it's right now, it's difficult. It it feels like it's harder to survive. It I don't know if you've been monitoring the situation, but we've got, you know, The United States just bombed the shit out of Iran. Apparently, he took out a nuclear facility that was also found to been running a shitload of bid access. So we dropped bunker busters in Iran into it took out, it was a noticeable drop in the hash rate corresponding with that bombing. And this is according to Marty Bent. I have not independently verified this, but this is according to Marty Bent,

3:11Rod Palmer the that, they were mining Bitcoin in the Iranian nuclear facilities. So, you know, with that backdrop, like, what it what is your take on where we're at? The the opening mentioned fourth turning. Do you think that we are in do you first of all, do you believe in the fourth turning, and how would you respond to that?

3:31Evan Kaloudis Well, first and foremost, well, first of all, excuse my dog. He's having a hard time. He,

3:41Rod Palmer What's your dog's name again? What's your dog's name? You told us this.

3:44Evan Kaloudis His name's, Murray Rothbark. He's a he's a bit of a gold bug, so he doesn't really like me doing Bitcoin podcast. But I don't I don't know. May maybe he does. I feel like if Murray Rothbard, who he's named after, was alive today, he'd probably be a Bitcoiner. Bitcoiner. But, yeah, Murray himself, he's been having a hard time, last couple days. Something in the yard is driving him nuts. It's been a bad it's been a bad few days for libertarians.

4:08Rod Palmer So if Marie Bonk is a libertarian, it sucks because we just Donald Trump reneged on his promise. He he dragged us into a foreign war, but he actually kept it under two weeks, you know, seems like. And it, he projected it as a big success.

4:26Rod Palmer So, you know, everybody's just kinda like his, his approval ratings have actually probably gone up since this and it, the libertarians are beside, they thought this was gonna be the thing that finally brought Donald Trump down was breaking his promise to the libertarians. But, you know, if it wasn't New York, it was it was a bad week, so maybe that's Murray's problem.

4:45Evan Kaloudis Yeah. I think it's like a couple of things. Like, the Donald Trump thing, New York City, well, at least for the Democratic primary elected, like, a a socialist. Murray Rothbard was was from New York too, so he's got that tie too. You know? Our ties to New York.

5:04Evan Kaloudis What are your jobs in here? No. I'm I'm from New York originally. You know, I was just moved down the road basically during COVID.

5:12Rod Palmer Now

5:14Evan Kaloudis oh, okay. So you were in New York during COVID? Yeah. Yeah. I was I was in Astoria, man. Astoria is fucking best part of New York. That's where all the Greeks hang out. That's where I get all my gyro and my souvlaki. It was fantastic, until, you know, COVID came around and really put a damper on everything. And, yeah, sure, you could still get your takeout, and that was fantastic. But, you know, my deal was You were gone.

5:38Rod Palmer They were the king of were you the king of,

5:41Evan Kaloudis Queen's Creek Town? No. Yeah. I was I was the king of Souvlaki, which was, you know, also the name of one of my favorite cards. Yeah, man. It was a great time out there. You know, we had we had a lot on.

5:54Rod Palmer Quick question. What are you what is your opinion of Manard's baklava as a Greek man from Greektown? Like, is is it overrated? Do you yeah. Did you could your mom make better baklava than Mandrake? Or, or is it is it is it worth the hype?

6:11Evan Kaloudis It is, but it's not, like, authentic authentic style. Like, Mandrake brings his own style to it. Like, it's super sweet, super sugary over the top. It's like drowning Interesting. But it actually, like, it delivers. And he does, like, a couple different flavors. So, like, if he's got something new cooking up, he's like he's basically the Walter White of, like, baklava. It's like it's addictive. So, you know, any time I get a chance to see him, he's just got, like he produces it by the pound too. But, yeah, I have I try to have, you know, one or two pieces. Try to limit it there because it is fucking loaded with calories, but, oh, it's tasty. It's really good.

6:50Rod Palmer What what what do you what is your reaction to the the place you grew up for? Lupeze has been a decade. A place that you started to probably I mean, any I think anybody who lives in New York for a decade probably starts to really identify as a New Yorker. What is your reaction as a New Yorker to, your your city electing, at least in the primary,

7:14Rod Palmer a con or a socialist over an Italian pervert?

7:20Evan Kaloudis And as yeah. You know, like like I I well, I got told you this before. Dude, I mean, do you do you think in my lifetime or how many decades we've had anyone who's remotely politically aligned with with us, like, not not really. I mean, the closest thing we've had, is I I guess now, which is really funny, is the current mayor, mayor Adams. He was speaking in in Vegas. He was talking about bit bonds in New York City. So he's, like, sort of a line with us.

7:50Rod Palmer Oh, man.

7:51Evan Kaloudis Murray, you're killing me, buddy. Yeah. I think one of his charges is always a, a mess, man. I mean, de Blasio, Bloomberg, Giuliani, like, shitheads. So it's not it's never been great.

8:08Evan Kaloudis So

8:09Richard Greaser Do you what what do you I just wanna throw a hypothetical out there. Sure. So New York politics are, like, famously screwed up. They have been for a long time. I think this is just, like, how things work in in most major cities in The United States in the in the political realm. Uh-huh. What do you think would things would look like if Dennis Porter was the mayor of New York City?

8:36Evan Kaloudis Could could he clean it up and fix it? No. I think he would do a one eighty completely towards the seventies. Like, basically, Times Square would be back to its pornographic roots. I mean, basically, everyone opening the their newspapers,

8:55Evan Kaloudis turning into the local TV would be fully erect. First of all, you I don't think you could run a society like that. You know, it it would be full on decay at that rate.

9:08Rod Palmer Well, actually, think about this, though. Okay. Remember, like, you really had stop and frisk is what cleaned up New York. And if you were to do a stop and frisk and someone did not have an erection when when given, you know, a YouTube video showed them of Dennis Porter or a picture,

9:29Rod Palmer if they didn't get an erection, that means that their their incentives were misaligned. And you you could probably bring them in and find that they were getting into, like, criminal behavior or just not savory citizens. I think that would be a great way to clean up New York City. Like, stop and frisk, boner or no boner. And it's it's it's a clear cut. There's you you don't yeah.

9:54Evan Kaloudis I would be at least negative that they're not getting their forty hours per weekend. But I don't know. I I feel like Dennis just transcends that too. Like, what? You don't think he's attractive to socialist and communist? Like, have you have you seen the man? He's he's a god.

10:09Richard Greaser He's the he's the alpha orange pillar.

10:12Evan Kaloudis Yeah. So The Apex orange pillar. I I feel like anyone who wasn't erect soon would be after him being in the media there, you know, ubiquitous through the media there within a couple weeks. So, would you even really need to take action, block these people away? I don't even think so. But at the same time, the debauchery

10:36Evan Kaloudis that would, you know, we'd we'd fall into. I I I just don't think that putting New York City on a, Bitcoin standard would cancel that out. I I feel like it would it would be fucking nuts. So I don't know. Yeah. You some things you really got just put into practice to to see how they play out, but, man, it's it's like, it's like Prometheus and fire, man. Like, who knows, man? A whole new world would be possible.

11:03Rod Palmer Yep. So the as seeing New York City, the lack of socialist, doesn't surprise me. And it doesn't surprise people who listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast per week. We knew that New York City was full of woke socialist

11:22Rod Palmer retards. Right, it was just you know? But all the all my friends in New York, all the people who love they think New York City is the best city in the world despite, you know, some of its problems here and there, they assured us that that was not true, that what we heard on podcast we were told to to not believe the things we hear on podcasts about New York City. And it turns out the podcasters were right. And do you think that this is like a big, you know, a coup de grace, so to speak, for the people in New York City who think it's the best city in the world to maybe have some humility

12:00Rod Palmer for you know, just have a little humility.

12:03Evan Kaloudis Yeah. I mean, you you gotta be staying humble in this world. Everything is just changing so rapidly. But at the same time, like, you know, New York is the greatest city in the world in in what terms? In terms of, you know, lifestyle, when when you're young and you're going out and socializing, Is it really the best for, you know, later stages in your life, Jim? Probably not. Unless you have

12:30Rod Palmer a lot of great for prices. Not great for it's not great for cigarette smokers.

12:35Evan Kaloudis Oh, it's awful. Have you know how much a pack is out there? Is this probably, like, $13.14 probably more since I left, dude. Honestly, I have I have no idea, but it seems brutal. But, yeah, the the syntaxes are just, brutal out there.

12:50Richard Greaser It's it's really great if you're working for a, paper Bitcoin company. New York is, like, the epicenter of that right now.

13:03Evan Kaloudis Is it? What what companies are out there? I mean, listen. I I haven't been following the paper Bitcoin except for the non KYC paper Bitcoin stuff as closely as you guys. So I I don't really know. Like Well, make it yeah. I mean, not there.

13:15Rod Palmer Some of the newer ones, they're more, decentralized. Paper Bitcoin's a little bit more decentralized than it used to be. But, you know, until recently, the big one, and still the biggest, is BlackRock. So BlackRock's there on Wall Street. So that's a big Bitcoin present. I mean, you mentioned it. The the current mayor, Adams, he, he has used Bitcoin

13:36Rod Palmer the way it was politically advantageous for him for the past few years. So he he gets Bitcoin. He he's not against it. He uses it when, you know, he needs non KYC fucking tickets to Turkey. Air airline tickets to Turkey. But Yeah. You know what I mean?

13:53Evan Kaloudis Such a character, that guy.

13:56Rod Palmer But the yeah. Exactly. So, you know, you pay for Bitcoins more decentralized, but it's still big for for BlackRock. But it's, I forgot where I was going with that, but,

14:11Richard Greaser It it definitely I would consider it the epicenter of paper Bitcoin and I think it will continue to be. It there there have been some attempts to, to go after New York, and replace it. So like Dan Held convinced, Francis Suarez to to use a Stacks thing. You remember that? And try and make Miami

14:35Evan Kaloudis a financial hub, but he learned the argument. Was on Stacks? Yeah. Oh, jeez.

14:41Rod Palmer Yeah. Big

14:43Evan Kaloudis Shit coin under shit coin. He said shit coin squared.

14:47Richard Greaser But, yeah. I mean, he he learned the hard way that shit coining is not the way to retain or gain the title of financial capital of the world. But yeah, do you think that We're watching this process as people are coming to the conclusion that Bitcoin is one. Do you think that New York will be able to be disrupted

15:21Richard Greaser as the financial hub of the world? Or do you think with their adoption of of paper Bitcoin, is that is that what it takes for them to retain their spot?

15:31Evan Kaloudis It's gonna be really, really hard to shake. You know? I I I think, eventually, a new hub will emerge, but, you know, it's it's hard to shake the amount of capital that it's in it right now. And and, obviously, they're they're gonna try to get in on this crypto thing with the paper Bitcoin companies, with the exchanges that are out there already,

15:54Evan Kaloudis hopping in on the trend and trying to retain their status. It's really gonna take a big player to really get behind it, and and create a new hub. But at the same time, it's not like the old paradigm where, like, you know, you had to go to the exchange to fucking physically settle stuff. You know, everything is distributed online through the Internet. So we'll see. We'll see. I think, eventually, something will overtake it, but this is not gonna happen soon. It's all just gonna be

16:25Evan Kaloudis a steady decline as more options and options.

16:30Rod Palmer Do you think that there's any other city in the world where, or any other bar in any other city that could be as I as iconic as as Pubkey where you, you know, you say, hey, I'm gonna tweet every day until somebody on Wall Street or somebody in the paper Bitcoin industry meets me for a drink at PubKey.

16:52Rod Palmer Or guys like, I can't remember his name, but he's from Austin. He's, at the Bitcoin meetup there, but he was asking Aubrey Strobel to go on a date with him and that he was gonna be at PubKey. I like it. This is the you know, iconic it's an iconic bar in the capital of of capitalism. Do you think that there's any place else that could replace that? Because until that, there's something more iconic than getting a beer with somebody at Pub Key. New York is number one.

17:19Rod Palmer But with the socialist mayor, if he wins They're gonna be a the general election, this that's gonna definitely put I mean, Matthew Crowder is gonna have a field day with people going to a socialist city, to hang out with influencers. Pledger is gonna have a field day with that, that kind of behavior.

17:38Evan Kaloudis A 100%. Pledger is gonna be so fucking grumpy. He's gonna call it out right away. He might do a tweet thread. But in terms of PubKey, I don't know. I feel like they sort of see the writing on the wall too. They sort of know the power of distributed networks. I think they're trying to branch out to some other cities. I think DC is

17:57Evan Kaloudis for sure on the way very soon. After that Everybody's I think I think, you know, Tom is the founder over there. He's basically said he's willing to expand to basically any city in the world except for Boston. So, we'll see. I I hope to see some other competitors too, give them a little bit of a run for their money. But

18:18Rod Palmer Evdia. Everybody's relocating to Washington. Even the paper Bitcoiners are relocating. Are you gonna re relocate to Washington? Because I think people talk about the Cantillionaire effect. I think Bitcoiners are realizing

18:35Rod Palmer that you do it's literal proximity to the money printer. So they're all trying to get as close to the White House. Yeah. And the Federal Reserve, they're, like, encircling. So Bitcoiners are cornering the fiat system. They've got it cornered in Washington, DC. They've got it cornered at the fed and they've got it cornered, you know, at the CIA. They've got it cornered at the FBI. Bitcoiners are closing in and we're we're gonna fix this. You know, Bitcoin's gonna fix all these departments. It's gonna fix the government. It's gonna fix the PIA system. So are are you getting in on that? Are you going to, like, Bitcoin policy institute summits and, like, hanging out in DC

19:13Evan Kaloudis so you can get close to the mind printer and fix it with those who's so, I mean, I'm I'm gonna be honest. Like, the thought has crossed my mind. So the first Bitcoin Policy Summit I got invited to was the one with, senator Lummis. So that was the last one. And then she went to PubKey and did a little event and, you know, I thought she was gonna go pay with Bitcoin, you know, and then we get a little transaction

19:41Evan Kaloudis over Zeus. Right? And what does this bitch do? She pays her she pays no. Not Tether. No. You you you maybe worse. Maybe worse, she pays with cash. And she's like, I'm spending my dollars and I'm holding my Bitcoin. And I'm like, come on. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Are you talking trash about cash, bro?

19:60Rod Palmer Cash is that's why cash is private. Like, they're trying to take cash away from us, and you're you're disparaging it. I mean, I mean Everybody's yeah. Yeah. You're a lightning guy. Everybody's gotta shoulder bags. But Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. Listen.

20:12Evan Kaloudis Obviously, Cash has amazing properties. They're itching to take it away from us. But, you know, at least Tether, you know, we keep it in the family. You know? Who's they? Easy. I'll offer him. Who's they? Who's they? Oh, that's a good question. Listen, I'm not sure if it's advisable for me to say who. I'm not sure if I have enough clout to to say who. I think I I might see some repercussions. Maybe next year if if Zeus does enough sales, gets enough cloud. The yeah. The Bitcoin the monetary Maximus.

20:43Rod Palmer Monetary Maximus in Bitcoin. That's Zoom.

20:46Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Yeah. That's that's a good enough answer for now, I guess.

20:54Rod Palmer Yeah. Yeah. So, go on and, Oh, okay. Well, you're you're talking about

21:01Evan Kaloudis is hot. So, like, we're already back on track. Policy summit. But there's another one going on right now. But then Richard invited me to the show, and I'm like, well, I'm not gonna be recording the show fucking down in DC. So I I I told him to buzz off. And, you know, honestly, it's been a great conversation so far. And and just to be frank, like, I just don't think that

21:26Evan Kaloudis the favors that would be able to be returned to me in, you know, to correspond to the favors that they're asking

21:36Rod Palmer from About value for value relationship.

21:38Evan Kaloudis Yeah. It's not value for value. I wouldn't get what I want out of I mean, listen. You know, I I could be a horny guy if I wanna hell, I named my company Zeus, and we all know how horny that guy was in mythology. But you you you get you gotta pay up. You gotta pay up, and and my price isn't being hit. So, you know, we'll see. Maybe another offer comes on the table. Maybe I make my way down to BPI, Washington, DC. You know? But right now, it's not doing it for me.

22:07Evan Kaloudis So TBD.

22:11Richard Greaser How would you feel if Dennis Porter gave you an offer, similar offer?

22:19Evan Kaloudis Richard, Richard, Richard. Always asking the hard hitting questions. I mean, I can't lie to you. I mean, we know the aura, the pull that Dennis has when he comes knocking. Realistically,

22:37Evan Kaloudis you know, I I I gotta be a little humble here. So I I don't think I will resist, but we'll see. We'll see. I've had a couple convos with with Dennis, you know, not so sexual in nature. But

22:50Richard Greaser Are you disappointed by that?

22:54Evan Kaloudis I mean, may maybe, but at the same time, what can I offer him? I don't live in DC. I'm not, you know, amongst the Right. Those ranks than the politics. There's there's other people that probably more attractive to him right now. Yeah. That's for I don't blame him. I don't blame him. He's a man on a mission. You know? He's he's trying to get us to hyper Bitcoinization

23:16Rod Palmer and, you know, he sees a path, and I'm sort of the other opposite direction. He's he's also gone very hard in on his support for running knots and, filters. And this is, you know, the Bitcoin policy in Stupel, first of all. It began with a standing ovation, for the Genius Act because everybody at the, the policy institutes are very, very supportive of Stablecoins.

23:42Evan Kaloudis What the hell is the Genius Act? It's a Stablecoin legislation.

23:46Rod Palmer Sounds like it sounds like everything. It was just free,

23:50Evan Kaloudis free, repairs on their Apple products, the Genius Act. Yeah. There you go. It's modernizing

23:56Richard Greaser the, US dollar system. It's very some politicians say it's bullish for Bitcoin. Some, I think Dennis believes it's bullish for Bitcoin. Yes. Yes. Big time. Big time.

24:12Evan Kaloudis Interesting.

24:13Rod Palmer And it's one of the big topics of conversation this week about the policy institute, summit is, this mempool policy. So there's, like, a big you know, the controversy between Corbynists and the Nazis. Grass fed me, yeah. And, and Rob Hamilton was tweeting about,

24:32Rod Palmer it being the mempool policy, summit and all the things that we're gonna talk about and Grass fed Mechanic was immediately very furious about this. And he he was he considered that this tweet, an attack on Bitcoin, but it but it sparked the converse. It sparked the conversation. And

24:51Rod Palmer other than Dennis Porter, there's nobody in Washington who is a knots runner. It is all the people, surrounding the White House and the Federal Reserve are are cornists. So, you know, what do you think about that development? And do you think this knots is, you know, it's up to 14%, almost of the nodes.

25:12Rod Palmer Do you think that this is legitimate? Do you think this is, like, a a bulk organization of node clients?

25:21Evan Kaloudis Maybe. And on one hand, it's probably not a bad thing. It's probably pretty good to get some diversity in clients. I mean, hell, am I gonna run knots? No. What are you fucking nuts? But the same time for people. Notes. Yeah. I think I think we should ask that question at the, the beginning of every episode is which node implementation you run.

25:41Richard Greaser So what people can determine whether they wanna listen to the episode or not. Because you know how people are these days. Sure thing. Well, I'll do it right now on Bitcoin Core and on BTCD. Have you have you ever considered running Bugle Core?

25:54Evan Kaloudis I took a look at the code and, you know, I I was thinking it was looking pretty good. I like the code base it's based on, obviously. But, you know, I was thinking about making some commits commits myself before I actually ran it on any critical infrastructure. So we'll see. Hopefully, I could push some stuff that's worthwhile.

26:14Richard Greaser Yeah. If you wanted to make some commits to it, I would

26:17Evan Kaloudis love that, actually. That'd be great. That'd be great. Do you guys have, like, a new logo for the launcher? What's it look like when I install it? I haven't seen that part of the code base.

26:25Rod Palmer We will, we yeah. We can connect on this, on the details sometime, but I think Mike, my question high level, what would it take for BugleCore to be the official node of, like, a z wallet? So people would know, like, if they wanna pick a lightning wallet that it's they're using a a node that they trust and that they verify for themselves and that they they can believe in. It's not just, you know, what could the self custody if you don't get to run your own node?

26:56Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, it's definitely something I've entertained as a thought. Like, when I think about BugleCore and I think about, you know, what shared values that that we have, you know, as friends right here on this podcast, I think, like, something that really resonates with me and I know resonates with you guys for sure is that we all think vaping is gay. If there was some way that I I'm I'm not sure the technology is there yet,

27:23Evan Kaloudis but if there were some way we can just, like, disconnect or or filter out peers that were vapers, That would be a really appealing feature to me. And, you know, if we lose revenue from Zeus users that vape, you know, so be it. You know? Hopefully, we get some, you

27:44Evan Kaloudis know, some cigarette smokers, cigars, even people who do ZINs are are all preferable to vapers.

27:53Richard Greaser Vapors are like the the scourge of the earth. And like, I think this is something Hitler got wrong severely is you He was going after the Jews, which is really stupid. So it's like, okay, you're gonna go after the people that

28:13Richard Greaser The class of people that exclusively know how to make good movies and do your taxes. You're gonna remove them from society. It's pretty fucking retarded in my opinion. But he never went after the vapers. And I think Germany wouldn't be such a pathetic country today if Hitler had realized

28:32Richard Greaser the real group that he should have gone after and eliminated from polite society was the vapers. They are the they are the worst. That's an interesting theory.

28:43Evan Kaloudis I wouldn't go so far as saying that I want them eradicated or or even put in work camps or concentration camps or anything like that. But I would very much like to not hear from them, whether it be on the big network, on lightning, on Twitter, on Nasr, whatever. Just

28:60Rod Palmer just make They can put them in camps, I guess, is fine. As long as my GAC's paying dollars aren't going towards it. Like, if you wanna do it, fund it yourself. Do it. Start it now. I don't know. Whatever. But, yeah. It's also stupid. Like, you're right, Richard. The dumb thing that Hitler did. It's like, if you're gonna go if you're gonna do a genocide, you you can't do it. Why would you do it against the Jews? Because you're gonna have to go to the The Hague, and you're not gonna be able to have a Jewish lawyer. So, like, you're gonna get you're gonna get the death penalty. That's a stupid it's you gotta be smarter about this. It's like the stupidest same thing with Iran. Iran just asked

29:38Evan Kaloudis to legally arbitrate these attacks from Israel and The United States. It's like, you guys are fucked. Who's gonna represent you?

29:46Rod Palmer Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

29:47Richard Greaser It's it's the stupidest fucking idea in statecraft ever to go after the Jews because you're you're essential essentially, your ability to function as a state is dependent on tax revenue.

30:02Richard Greaser And so if you take all the good accountants and you remove them, like how the fuck are you gonna collect taxes at the end of the day? It's a I mean,

30:12Richard Greaser it's just it's a action that will only lead to dysfunction, 100%. But Evan, you're a guy that does well under pressure.

30:26Evan Kaloudis You think?

30:27Richard Greaser Absolutely. So you've got this lightning wallet that has cool graphics. I'm a user of it. I think I'm a daily user. I think I used it like three times today and every every transaction routed because my wife has been, doing better with the the node liquidity. Nice. But you're a man that does well under pressure because you're going around and you have you don't have, like, a big marketing team. Like, one of the biggest salesmen of your product is you.

30:57Richard Greaser Mhmm. And so you're having to go and you're having to demo your product. And you know there's that chance where you just get stuck in the loop where the graphics are just spinning over and over and over again and the transaction doesn't route, which just kills the sales process. Right? So you're under a lot of pressure frequently.

31:19Richard Greaser Mhmm. How do you deal with that pressure?

31:23Evan Kaloudis How do I deal with that pressure? Well, first of all, I made sure that the graphics still look fucking awesome when the transaction fails. So I I think that was paramount, making sure that, you know, even when you can't even connect your node via Tor network to your node in your bunker

31:42Evan Kaloudis thousands of miles away, that you always get a cool graphic that was really sad, Zeus. So we covered that, and then, you know, we had the ability to connect multiple wallets. You know? You can

31:54Richard Greaser have a note on your phone, a remote note, and you could switch between them. Now you can even have a paper Bitcoin wallet. I don't I don't really care about I don't care about your wallet. I I wanna know how you deal with the pressure of of a potential deal. Yeah. How do you deal with it?

32:08Evan Kaloudis That is a great question. I mean, really, if it's really crunch time, the big event, you know, rip a couple bogeys, you know, smoke a cigarette. That'll help. I really like drinking a lot of coffee and energy drinks, so that could get me a little anxious. So if I'm really using that to power through my week, I gotta counteract that too. But I just just that and and and Jesus says What about what what about lowering your time preference? Oh, yeah. I love that. You know, you go into your settings when you're about to make a payment. You increase the time out. Thirty seconds, sixty seconds now. Let's let's go to a full two minutes, four minutes, eight minutes. Transaction's gonna go through one way or the other.

32:56Rod Palmer Yeah. So the yeah. Literally, like, protocol level Lowering your time preference. I was talking more, metaphorically. But yeah. Right. They both they same thing. Same thing.

33:08Evan Kaloudis Yeah. I mean, physically, literally.

33:10Rod Palmer You know? What what is time? It sounds like you realize it's all about the user experience because failed payments is a part of life. But as long as you still have a cool, like, gift or a cool animation, it's like, if you're gonna make me wait in the lobby, at least give me art.

33:28Evan Kaloudis Right. Right. And then while you're waiting, you know, you just gotta have subject matter to talk about. So You could you could put podcasts

33:35Rod Palmer on like, you could pipe a podcast. So when somebody's waiting for their lightning transaction to go through or they're waiting for something else in their lightning wallet to fucking work like it's supposed to, you can watch a podcast in, like, the it's, like, the elevator music or, you know, the waiting,

33:51Evan Kaloudis when you're on on on a on hold on a call. You have a Bitcoin podcast playing in your app. That would be amazing. But, Rod, how many more enemies do you want me to make? You know? You called out all my fucking rivals at the start of the show. I I was addicted. And now I'm gonna get in the ring with Fountain. Like, who who who who what am I gonna do next, dude? I'm gonna go after YouTube or whatever? What is this? Spotify, all the podcast apps?

34:13Richard Greaser Well, this is this is, an important part of the Bitcoin ecosystem is everybody with a competing product arguing with each other. Like,

34:23Evan Kaloudis Yeah.

34:24Richard Greaser Yep. You know, samurai wasabi, they they did a lot of arguing.

34:29Evan Kaloudis Oh, constantly, dude. Oh, shit. And we and we did an event with you guys to help support samurai, but, you know, fully expecting them to come out and say, oh, yeah. Thanks. But you guys are a bunch of fags. So, you know, but that's that's what happens when you defend liberty, you defend scoundrels. It's okay.

34:49Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, do you anticipate and do you see the need for more arguing amongst the different Lightning devs and wallet users or or makers or whatever you call it? I mean, I think one of the things that we've really seen success with on the Lightning Network is zaps on Nostr

35:06Evan Kaloudis and, being able to zap a person for their for their post or their note on Nostr. And if we're not arguing about things on Nostr, and it's all just a kumbaya circle jerk, there's only so many zaps that could get thrown around. But if you have people slamming each other about their wallet implementation or the privacy trade offs, the UX, the graphics, and, you can throw zaps left and right about who's got the best alley oops and dunks. I think we're all gonna really benefit.

35:34Rod Palmer So lightning could benefit from their own Luke and mechanic. Somebody to stir up some drama and get a a huge, like, just timeline sucking,

35:47Rod Palmer fucking pointless debate about features, about, you know, l n URL versus Bolt or versus, you know, the different there's different Lightning clients. Right? You got CLN. Right. Right. You got LND.

36:02Evan Kaloudis Something something to get people to look at Lightning again and care and care about it. You know, like, we we've had some good routes. You know? We were, you know, a few years back, duking it out with, and we threw some some punches back and forth. That was fun. No doubt. No doubt. It was really good. It was fun. I I still like those guys, even though, you know, we pulverized them. Maybe if I was on the other end, I wanna feel the same way. But we we we we still have, like, a couple of people who are feisty, fiery out there. I I think Blue Matt Joe Nakamoto. Joe. Yeah. Joe is very fiery. He is opinionated. He wears his heart on his sleeve too. But, no, I was just thinking in terms of, like, lightning developers. Corallo definitely speaks his mind. He gets into fights.

36:46Evan Kaloudis But we need more of that. Adam Smith. Sam's yeah. Samson, if you wanna call him the lightning dev. I guess, no. Yeah. That is a pretty big

36:54Rod Palmer wallet that we built. Samson is the memer for his lightning company. Like, that's what more of these lightning developers, like, BlueWallet should have, you know, an influencer or a memer,

37:09Evan Kaloudis you know, kind of doing stuff, like, promoting them on the timeline, deploying them at conferences, things like that. Did they have a I feel like they were involved in some beef, but I feel like they're mostly heads down working on stuff. Like, I think they've been trying to wire up Spark state train into their wallet or whatever. You know who's quiet is Moon Wallet. What do you think of Moon Wallet? Oh, Moon Wallet. Moon Wallet fucking awesome UX when it came out, and then people realized where it hit the rails and those high fee environments. So that really sucked. The inside baseball on that is I think they're working on an ARC implementation. So they're all in on ARC, and I think they're just Yeah.

37:45Rod Palmer So speaking of below now.

37:48Richard Greaser Speaking of ARC, Ron and I were talking with another layer two person. I guess he was just a shell. He was shelling for the company that was rolling out the layer two. I'm not gonna say who it was. It it sounds similar to Arc. There's like 20

38:08Evan Kaloudis layer twos that sound similar to Arc. Yeah. There's Arc, there's Spark, there's Fart. There's all these old twos. Yep.

38:15Richard Greaser So I wanna know your opinion. I think this is a really important question. We we asked the guy this and and he didn't really wanna answer it. I think it made him feel uncomfortable. And it's just sometimes what you have to do as a journalist. But Yeah. What what is the gayest l two being proposed right now in the pipeline?

38:41Evan Kaloudis This is a really, really tough one. I I think we tried to duke it out on a smaller scale. We were duking out is Cash or no was e Cash gayer than Liquid?

38:53Rod Palmer And, obviously, I thought Liquid was I think it's, you know gayer. I think it I think it's Paul's thing.

38:59Evan Kaloudis Paul Storzick's strike chain is probably the gayest to me. Oh, yeah. I mean, a 100%. It's it's so gay. I mean and that's, like, a really it's really hard to get that title as the gayest of the l twos because you're going up against, like, David Marcus and the guy who tried to do the Libra Stacks.

39:17Rod Palmer Oh, and Stacks too. They're like, fuck those guys. They're fucking dicks. Stacks is really gay. Stacks is a really gay one, but I still yeah. I still still think Paul's drive chain is the worst.

39:28Evan Kaloudis Yeah. It's like Paul's demeanor too in his gay arguments. It's, like, just really not good. And he's such a clever guy. He could be, like, doing so much better things with his life, pushing forward this gay thing that's never even gonna get activated. It's just really it's really gay.

39:44Richard Greaser Did you did you hang out with him at our event? He was there.

39:48Evan Kaloudis We talked outside the door. He was with, what's his name from, Bitfian, Robin Linus. Robin's really nice. That that guy looks crazy. He looks like a fucking Cuban porn star. I'm sure he has the latest left and right. But, no, Paul was funny. He was witty. He was nice. We he threw a couple of witty remarks back and forth. I think he's a smart guy, but, yeah, I just think, BIP three hundred and three zero one are pretty silly. And, his arguments against lightning, I'm trying to

40:20Evan Kaloudis derive it and say, oh, we gotta activate my thing. It's just silly and bad approach. It's not gonna get people on your side to activate it when you need broad consensus. Right?

40:30Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, when I think of certain people, I just kinda get, like, these weird urges to, like, do certain things to them in person. You know? Like, when I think

40:43Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's like, what what do they call it? Those, those urges you shouldn't act on?

40:50Richard Greaser Well, I think these are, like it is they're, like, intuitive urges. I think they're good. But, like, when I think of David Bailey, I wanna twist his nipples. You know what I mean? Right. Right. I mean,

40:60Evan Kaloudis you should gut use that as, like, a guide and know, like, okay. Maybe you shouldn't team up or or or attach your, your sale to this person and whatever, but

41:12Richard Greaser probably wouldn't really want to twist his nipples, would you? Not in a mean way. You know, just in a friendly way. Mhmm. Just like, you know, just like as, like, the first introduction. Before I shake his hand, you might know it's me already, but just walk up, twist his nipples. But when I think when I think of Paul Stork when I think of Paul Stork, I think I think he just needs to be tickled a little bit. You know what I mean?

41:37Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Yeah. Just need to walk up to him. Oh, I'm telling you. He's, like, sweet he was super cordial in person. He was not you know, the times I've met him. I think I met him, you know, earlier back in Miami too. He's, like, he's a nice guy. Just like when you get in the weeds on stuff, he's just, like, too prickly. He's, like, he's in his corner. He's only trying to push this. He's just, like, too defensive about it. He lashes out at everything else. I yeah. I think tickles tickles, maybe a hug even, could go a long way with someone like him. Yeah. Yeah. A lot Yeah. I think just a lot of people in this space are just a little too grumpy. And there's no there's no need to be grumpy. It's When you introduce yourself

42:16Rod Palmer for the first time as a plaid or a pioneer, whoever, tomato dough, you should just give him a titty twister. Just don't even say hi. Just give him a titty twister, and then, like, just, like, like, he would shake his hand.

42:27Evan Kaloudis And everybody if everybody did that, he just he'd stop being grumpy, I think. And, Rod, you know the thing with Matt is Matt always has, like, one button too many unbuttoned on his shirt. You can get in there, dude. You can do skin to skin. I mean, I'm not endorsing. I I I love Matt. I don't want anything to happen to him physically like that. But if you're so inclined and you're gentle enough, the opportunity is there. That's all I'm saying.

42:51Rod Palmer He's oh, yeah. He's always got his his chest hair with, like it's shining because he's got tallow on it, and he's always got that showing through his shirts.

42:59Richard Greaser The tallow. That's pretty good. Is there anybody that you get weird urges thinking about, Like, I was describing Other than Dennis? Well, yeah. Explain your urge with Dennis.

43:11Evan Kaloudis He's just an attractive man. I mean, I feel like everyone's attracted to him. You know? It's nothing to be ashamed about.

43:18Richard Greaser But what is acting on that urge look like for you?

43:24Evan Kaloudis You know, probably Pub Key DC, opens up, and then I start tweeting at him. It's day one of me tweeting at Dennis Porter to get a drink with me at PubKey DC. Dennis, I'll get you the whale. You know what that comes with.

43:44Rod Palmer The problem with Dennis is anybody anybody who wants to hang out with Dennis and, like, would tweet about, let's get a beer, pubkey. Yeah. That's the guy Dennis that's the guy Dennis knows he doesn't need. He's got he's gotta go out there he's gotta go out there and get the people who are playing hard to get. He's gonna get the politicians. He's always looking forward. Right. Right. Like, you know, you could you could try to win him over with a ceramic frog filled with,

44:07Evan Kaloudis mezcal, but it's only gonna go so far. So we'll see. You know, maybe post hyperbitcoinization, it could happen. But yeah. Unfortunately, we're just talking dreams here. We're just talking dreams, you know, if I were to shoot my shot.

44:20Richard Greaser Unfortunately, buying Dennis a drink doesn't pay for his, private jet expenses. He's got some important work to do. So he's got to keep that that puppy fueled at all times. You know what I mean? I think he's on a private jet now? He's he's onto that grind? No way. Who was it who was it that was talking shit about him in Vegas, Rod, saying that he was flying economy and then he tweeted a picture of his private jet in response.

44:46Rod Palmer That was paid. That was Teddy Bitcoins fucking, Dennis Porter absolutely mocked Teddy Bitcoins on the timeline,

44:58Rod Palmer right to start the comp that was the kickoff to the Bitcoin conference. He was making fun of Dennis for for flying coach, and Dennis posted a picture of his jet and said, I fly private.

45:09Evan Kaloudis Wow. So he he actually posted about it. That's news to me. That's amazing. But, yo, with these Bitcoins, he wasn't at the conference. I I feel like

45:19Rod Palmer it's sort of No. I

45:20Richard Greaser yeah. He wasn't. He wasn't. It sort of sort of detracts from the conference in a big way if he wasn't there. Well, he got a he got a lot of backlash for winning Mackenzie Madness. Like, a lot of like, Brady Swenson and Corey Klipsen were really mad at him They were jealous. For winning. Yeah. Like, Stacy Herbert was really mad at him for winning. There's a lot of people that were really mad. Plutterer, of course, really mad. Oh, naturally.

45:49Richard Greaser And, yeah. I think he was kind of afraid of somebody trying to, like, beat him up or something because they were so mad that that he won and they didn't.

46:01Evan Kaloudis God. Chelsea is one hell of a hell of a drug. You gotta you gotta stay humble.

46:07Rod Palmer It's there's a lot of you know?

46:10Richard Greaser It's a real problem in Podkoff, you know, this this kind of, competitive nature. You know what I mean?

46:16Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's cutthroat out there. You know? Every everyone wants to be the guy who ushers in over Bitcoinization. Everyone wants to be the guy that, you know, gets the president to just sign into law, just executive order. Bitcoin's the money now.

46:33Rod Palmer Ev, yeah, The competition is, I think, all it's it's getting more, it's getting more monetized, and it's getting more exciting. It's getting more fierce. I think paper Bitcoin,

46:46Rod Palmer is gonna be a huge combo. Who's got the best bit you know, paper Bitcoin meme stock? Is it MetaPlay in it? That's who I think. That's my my, my pick. MicroStrategy, of course, is like, you know, micro strategy dominance, if maybe for Bitcoin's gonna be strong forever, but who are, like, some of these other paper Bitcoin companies with big influencer investments, they might not they must might not cut it.

47:10Evan Kaloudis I think what is it? What are they called? The hotel stock? Meta play in it. Meta play. Meta play is, like, probably a pretty good pick for the ones that are existing right now.

47:24Evan Kaloudis But you gotta think with, like, this genius thing, like, there's gonna be a lot of incumbent players from, like, the legacy financial system that come in and really give everyone else a run for their money. Like, do you think, like, Jamie Dimon is not gonna come out swinging and go for the crown right there? He's like, oh, my buddy Larry Schmidt, you know, he's got this ETF going on. I'm gonna come with the hammer and really do the premier stable coin. That's who I got my money on. And, you know, Jamie Dimon, also Greek. Not that I claim him like that. He's gonna he's gonna bust some balls. He's he's

48:00Evan Kaloudis he's right across the street from the fed. He's all tied in. I'm not particularly worried about it right now. I think

48:06Richard Greaser the Bitcoiners have an edge, like a major edge. Right? Jamie Dimon

48:13Evan Kaloudis is dangerous only when he starts listening to forty hours of Bitcoin podcasts a week. Right. And it doesn't sound like he is. He said Bitcoin's gonna be shut off in ten years today.

48:22Richard Greaser So you'll know when things are getting real when JP Morgan starts hiring Bitcoin podcasters like all these treasury companies are.

48:33Evan Kaloudis Yep. If they do Who do you think that would be a really good fit for them on their board? Like, if they did more crypto focused shit.

48:43Richard Greaser Yeah. I think, like, probably, like, more of a Michelle Weekly. Michelle Weekly. Yeah. Morgan Richard, Michelle Weekly, maybe Aubrey Strobel, Dennis Porter. Yeah. Who do you think?

49:02Evan Kaloudis Oh, it's a tough call. I don't know who's, who's brushed up with that sort of side of the world, but still deep into the Bitcoin stuff? I don't know.

49:12Rod Palmer Do you have a daily,

49:14Richard Greaser like, Carter?

49:17Evan Kaloudis Those are great choices. Corey. I I I feel like I feel like, someone to not overlook is my boy, Alex Thorne. He's a Galaxy Digital. You know? Alex Thorne. Alex Thorne. Alex Fleishman. Well, yeah. These are these are heavy hitters. Like, you know, some of our New York crew, you gotta

49:35Rod Palmer That's right. The the other secret weapon that Bitcoiners have right now is Tether on lightning. How excited are you for Tether on lightning? How is how is that going to how do you how do you build that into Zeus? Because,

49:52Rod Palmer it's gonna be popular. Oh, yeah. It's probably gonna be more popular than than Cashew.

49:57Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Probably. Probably. But at the same time, I'm telling you, don't write off Jamie Dimon, dude. I mean, yeah, Tether's the most popular company in the world, most successful crypto company in the world by far. But Jamie Dimon gets in, you're gonna be like, oh, fuck Tether. I want that JPMorgan coin. So maybe we should be thinking about how how we get that JP Morgan coin into Zeus instead. And I don't know. Maybe Cashew could be a really good route for it instead of, going on to Taproot assets. That's an idea.

50:29Rod Palmer You think you think the JP Morgan coin is going to be an attractive asset? You think people are gonna want JP Morgan coin? After all this, after all the memes, you think that the JP Morgan coin meme is gonna people are gonna be like, hell, yes. That's what I want. Or do you think they're gonna want, like, crazy, like, super fit dude who's like a cypherpunk with a weird accent that they can't quite place and who lives in the The Caribbean

50:55Rod Palmer and fucking has, like, four employees? JPMorgan's got, like, a bazillion employees. He's got too much overhead.

51:03Evan Kaloudis Nah. Well, dude, well, you just gotta pull a trump card. And you know what I would do? I would call Kale up. You have that motherfucker and his orange balaclava on stage next to Jamie Dimon. That's your trump card, dude. Fuck,

51:18Evan Kaloudis Paul Paulo. I know his face. I know his name. I might as well know his SSN. I don't know who the fuck Kala is, honestly. So, yeah, you you can trump that shit. No. JPMorgan

51:30Rod Palmer needs an influencer for him who's a NIM.

51:35Evan Kaloudis Yeah. That would be good. That would be good. Maybe they could get Shams from, from Pubkey. You know Shams? It says Shams tastic a lot. There could be synergy there. They're both New York. You know? Shams worked in financial world a little bit.

51:50Richard Greaser You get that guy that works at Foundry. Cool. You know, I I forgot what his name is. He's he's the guy that speaks with the mask and, wears gloves because he doesn't want them getting his fingerprints.

52:05Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Something someone of that caliber. Someone who does not have their real face as their profile picture. I don't know. Like, maybe maybe you start small. Maybe you don't get, like, a super techy, cyberpunk who's coding it up. Maybe you just focus it on comms. Maybe you get, like, a credentialed journalist. You know, may maybe you get a Rod Palmer or Dick Greaser that just do comms for the crypto shit at JPMorgan.

52:32Evan Kaloudis But at the same time, I know you guys would demand a lot. I I don't think they they even produce that many cigarettes in a year to pay you guys off additionally.

52:42Richard Greaser I don't think JPMorgan could ever meet my demands of what I would require to work for them. On day one, I'd walk in with a chainsaw and HR would be fucking gone. HR would be gone.

52:60Evan Kaloudis Which is so many employees to just get rid of HR. Like, that's that's so much impossible.

53:05Richard Greaser Why?

53:07Evan Kaloudis You know, corporate culture. You know, they're publicly traded too. Like, get rid of HR. Is he gonna really roll the dice and say, hey. Our Bitcoin earnings are gonna out. HR HR is, like, the worst thing ever. It is the worst thing ever because these these women,

53:21Richard Greaser mostly white women, have gone in and created a position for themselves that's completely worthless. So they they sell themselves to the employer as being protective of their business. Right? They're like, we need to protect you. And then then they they kinda cackle behind the scenes

53:40Richard Greaser talking about how they can implement all these policies that are really bad for the employer and super gay. They're like, how can we make this work environment as gay as possible? And then they go to the employee and sell themselves to the employee like, hey, we're here for you. We'll listen to your feelings, you know, whatever, whatever.

54:02Richard Greaser And they're just snitching on their employees to their, the other people in the company, the the people running it essentially. And they're, like, pretending, like, they actually wanna give these people fucking raises. So these people are like, oh, I need to get so

54:19Richard Greaser you don't fucking need them in both sides of the company, but the the employee, the, the labor and the capital executives have been sold on this worthless position, and they just make everything gayer and and less productive. So I would date one You don't think you could fix HR from the inside?

54:39Evan Kaloudis You don't think you could have, like, HR having meetings about, like

54:43Rod Palmer Oh, Elon Musk just tried podcast listening. With an army full of broccoli haircut. Elon Musk just took on HR with a broccoli haircut army of AI zoomers, and they couldn't take down HR. We thought after Trump got elected, we all thought that HR was toast. They they were gonna be, like you said, going through with the, chainsaw with Elon with the fucking flamethrower, throwing the HR out. And just in the deep state is HR. Like, they listen to everything. They they tell you that they you need they they're protecting you. They tell you that they're doing this for your own good, that they're doing it for the best of the country. And then they use your, your data and your feelings and your information against you and they snitch. They're spooks. HR, CIA, they're all spooks. And Elon Musk took a chainsaw to it and he got rejected.

55:32Rod Palmer So

55:33Richard Greaser that is that is they're stronger than we thought. It's a bigger force than we thought. Correct. You have to abolish it. There there's no middle ground on this one. It's either you're fully cocked, you have HR, or you don't. And, like, look at the Bitcoin ecosystem. Look at HRF. They try to act as the HR for the dissidents around the world.

55:58Richard Greaser They're like, Hey, we'll give you money, but you have to give us KYC.

56:04Evan Kaloudis True.

56:07Richard Greaser Yep. HR loves getting everybody's KYC. They get they get everybody's KYC. That's, like, one of their favorite jobs. But anyways,

56:18Evan Kaloudis Yeah. The rest of your demand, what else would you demand, Dick?

56:21Richard Greaser There there needs to also be somebody, like, super hot acting as kinda like one of the the frontline influencers. So I would I would nominate Kaylee Welch for that. Oh, total babe. Good choice. You would need to smoke be able to smoke inside the offices.

56:42Evan Kaloudis Oh, yeah. That that doesn't even have to be said. Yeah. Of course, dude. Fuck.

56:47Richard Greaser There there has to be a whole department created for maintaining all the typewriters that will be used. So you get rid of the HR. I guess you could repurpose them into cleaning typewriters and maintenance in them. You can retrain them on useful skills.

57:07Evan Kaloudis What else? Would we fire the vapers or try to rehabilitate

57:11Richard Greaser them? That's a good point. Yes. No. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I I know it sounds really callous to say this, but I I came to this conclusion. The door. Yeah. I came I came to this conclusion after being around you ever hang around Shinobi and get a vape cloud in your face?

57:30Evan Kaloudis Oh, god. No. I try to hang with him, when he can't be smoking. We can't be hitting the vape, you know, under professional pretenses. Yeah. Sheesh. I I can't even imagine. Could you imagine the smell? Have have you been hit with one of those clots? What what flavors does he even like that guy? I I don't know, but I don't remember the flavors, but it was gross. God.

57:54Richard Greaser So yeah. Like Rod said, send send Shinobi and all the vapers that work at JP Morgan down to, El Salvador. No re that I guess that's their rehabilitation. We just don't hear from them again. And they do jumping jacks in that giant prison.

58:13Evan Kaloudis I like that. I like that. Plus that fuels the circular economy, you know, El Salvador and Bitcoin and all. Yeah.

58:20Richard Greaser Trump's got all the shit wrong about deporting all these Mexicans. He could he's gotta go and deport the vapers.

58:27Evan Kaloudis Yeah. 100%. 100.

58:32Richard Greaser We're roughly an hour in. So have you have you ever listened to one of our interview shows before?

58:39Evan Kaloudis I listened to the ones with, or their most latest one with fundamentals. I listened to the latest one with what's the guy,

58:53Evan Kaloudis the guy the big guy, the tan guy. He's got the beard. He looks homeless most of the time. Oh, John Seth. Yeah. Listen to that one. John Seth. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great one. Oh, man. He's he's such a sharp guy. Yeah. Love John Seth. He's great. And then yeah. Yeah. I think those are the only two interview ones I listened to so far.

59:17Richard Greaser Hell, yeah. Well, we we kinda have a ritual. Before we go into the ritual, Rod, do you got you got anything else you wanna talk chat about?

59:27Rod Palmer No. No. I just wanted to, to wrap up on, like, the paper bait queen. Like, how do you think we talked about the Geistel too, but, like, what Oh, and see They don't wanna Yeah. That dominant that that was that competition.

59:41Evan Kaloudis It was way too cringe. You know? I I really like Tatum, but, you know, I I could only do so much cringe listening. He's he's a character. He's one of the kind. No no one make me feel more cringe than Tatum.

59:53Rod Palmer He's looking for a girlfriend, man. I know Tatum Fine is a girlfriend. He's an eligible bachelor. You know? He's tall. So, you know, those were two most important qualities. Forklift certified?

1:00:07Evan Kaloudis Forklift. Yeah. That's huge, dude. Huge.

1:00:11Richard Greaser So what what was cringe about it?

1:00:13Evan Kaloudis Oh, just hate him. Just hate his personality. I'm like, his response is, he's just too much. He he did, like, a comedy skit at the pub key party in Vegas, and oh my god, dude. I mean, I was it was, like, such an oscillation between me, like, dying hysterically and just being, like, so cringe. Like, it's like cringe core. You know? It's like, some of the stuff, it just, like, gives you the heebie jeebies. It's like so some of those, like, Sam Hyde skits sometimes. It just, like, teeters too much. It makes you uncomfortable. But, no, I'm looking forward to to more Tatum content. I just don't think I could do a full hour.

1:00:54Richard Greaser So you think it like, how would you rank as comedy? Is it pretty good?

1:00:59Evan Kaloudis Oh, it it was great. It was self deprecating, a lot of good jokes. But yeah. Yeah. Just, we we he's got he's gotta ease up a little bit on the on the cringe. I mean, that's the whole thing, but, like, you know, one tenth less would, go a long way. So we'll see. Yeah. I I was just shout out to him for getting out of his comfort zone and doing, like, a set like that, you know, different format. It takes a lot of balls. So, you know, tip my hat off to him for that.

1:01:27Richard Greaser Yeah. The reason why he came on the show was, I I invited him. I reached out to him. I I saw a friend in need, you know, like, one of my one of my comrades in the in this journey. And he, I told him that

1:01:45Richard Greaser I know he wanted a girlfriend and we could essentially advertise him Mhmm. To all the women in Bitcoin. Nice. And, so that's that was, like, the goal of the last episode. I think we did a good job of laying it out there, why people should like him, why they should go on dates with him. Maybe have you caught up with him? Has he gotten any prospects out of it? Has anyone zapped him? I did bump into him in Vegas, actually. He was I I think he just needs some, like, in person coaching because Crypto Mags

1:02:17Richard Greaser was, like, all over him. And she she wanted to go on his podcast. And, like, one of the things you have to understand as a podcaster is, like, if a hot woman

1:02:28Richard Greaser who's, like, smart and knows the thing about Bitcoin, like, Crypto Mags wants to come on your podcast. You need to, like, drop everything and make it happen. You know what I mean? Yeah. A 100%.

1:02:40Evan Kaloudis Any cross media anything, you know, like, come on, you know. Let me let me write an article about you blah blah blah. You know? Just

1:02:50Rod Palmer Tatum's

1:02:51Evan Kaloudis Prime avenue to get in there.

1:02:53Rod Palmer Tatum's problem with women is the same problem he had with podcasting. He he just had it too easy when he first started podcast. He had Jack Dorsey. He had all the most biggest influencers wanting to be on his podcast. It was there was no challenge to him. And the same with all these women, all these women are no challenge to him. You can have them all on his podcast. And but he just done he's he just doesn't have the work ethic to, like, sit down and and crank out episodes, go on dates, meet girls. He's, he's just ADD,

1:03:23Rod Palmer but he's having a good time, so he's just gotta focus his attention.

1:03:28Evan Kaloudis Yeah. He, like, he, like, one of those acts, you know, like, these acts that come out their first album is just so fire. It's like, oh, shit. Just dropped appetite for destruction. How is he gonna follow that up? It's like, that was his whole folly. Probably should've saved Dorsey for, like,

1:03:46Richard Greaser later. Yeah. He should have he should have recorded a few episodes and built up to it. Yeah. Well, there's still there's still a lot of cool people that did I don't think he's peaked yet. There's a lot of cool people that he could have. And I think Crypto Maggs is one of those people. If I don't know. I would probably climb a mountain and cross a river to have Crypto Mags on this podcast.

1:04:07Evan Kaloudis Yeah. She's great.

1:04:10Richard Greaser She's a part of Vibes Capital.

1:04:12Rod Palmer So anyways Oh, yeah. Crypto Max is hot.

1:04:15Richard Greaser Definitely. 100%. The the point wasn't to talk about Crypto Max. The point was to say, I think Tatum still needs some help. I don't I don't think the advertise you know, because, like, one of the things is, like, you can advertise for a product, but if you can't manage a sales funnel and convert Right. It's pretty useless.

1:04:34Evan Kaloudis Right. That's true. Funnels are important for funnels are everything.

1:04:40Richard Greaser Alright. It isn't yeah. Business cat calls him gravity wells. Alright. So you sorta listened so you answered one of the questions of the ritual. So you you answered,

1:04:49Evan Kaloudis Oh, this was part of it? I thought I thought this was a detour. Yeah. I listened to a couple of shows. That's good.

1:04:55Richard Greaser No. Wait. Well, we always ask if you listened to the last episode. And, so it sounds like you listened to, like, a little bit of it. So you have some of the context, and we just kinda, like, covered the synopsis of Right.

1:05:07Evan Kaloudis I I probably got twenty, thirty minutes in. You know, I was talking about a sailor. He's like, I'm not sure I wanna yeah. I'll I'll listen to part of it, I'll listen.

1:05:16Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, yeah. I'd like to see Crypto Mags on this podcast soon because she went to Africa to run bid access. And, that's like the equivalent of a church group going to like Puerto Rico to build houses. You know what I mean? Yeah.

1:05:38Richard Greaser So that that was a big moment for Bitcoin for her and the Connor Alchemist and a few of those other guys to essentially go on a missionary trip to Africa with some bit axes. So she's deserving of it. But, the second question and arguably the most important question, Evan,

1:05:57Richard Greaser is, are you Jewish?

1:06:00Evan Kaloudis Am I Jewish? No. Unfortunately, I am a Greek, Greek Orthodox, but part of me wishes I was, you know, Jewish, or at least part, you know.

1:06:13Richard Greaser So I've noticed that amongst lightning developers, people building these wallets, there's a severe under representation of Jews. And I'm curious,

1:06:27Richard Greaser do you think that's one, a problem and two, why there hasn't been any decent accounting services for for for managing all of your, transactions?

1:06:41Rod Palmer It'd be They are legal representation. Doing

1:06:44Evan Kaloudis accounting in l and d is actually nuts. But, you know, they they you may do have some some Jewish folks, some fine Jewish folks at Lightning Labs. It's just they're not developers. They're not the ones coding this up. So, yeah, if they did have some more, Jewish programmers, that that certainly would have been nipped in the bug. But, no, they're they're great Jewish, Lightning devs, I think. Right?

1:07:10Evan Kaloudis Roy Sheffield, he he's from Israel. Right? Who else? I'm I'm Ben Kaufman. Ben Kaufman's working on something now. Yeah. Ben Kaufman's working at, at Keeper, which is, like, a multisig, mobile wallet. Yeah. Ben Kaufman is great. I love Ben. He's one of my favorite Jews. Oh, yeah. He's he's up there. He's up there in the ranks. So for me, you know, he's up there with, well, maybe not quite as much as fundamentals, but close.

1:07:38Evan Kaloudis Damn close.

1:07:41Rod Palmer I wish we had a list of all the Jewish developers on lightning.

1:07:46Richard Greaser I I don't know. You know, it's kind of a bad idea to mix Jews and lists.

1:07:53Rod Palmer You know what I mean? Yeah. Too much lightning. That's a that's a meme. I mean

1:07:58Richard Greaser The the Jews don't like to be on lists. That's for sure. Yeah. Definitely don't inscribe that anywhere. Like, don't

1:08:04Rod Palmer Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. That's that's the thing. That is the that's the that is the the answer right there. How can you promote lightning? Jewish lightning. Everybody loves Jewish lightning. Like it's already a meme. You just subscribe it to a new product. Boom. Takes off. The

1:08:24Richard Greaser reason why the Jews don't like KYC in general is because they know the the risk of being on the list.

1:08:31Evan Kaloudis Yeah. That's for sure.

1:08:34Richard Greaser Okay. Well, yeah. So then we make you read all the boost with us from the previous

1:08:39Evan Kaloudis week. Oh, shit. I fucked up, guys. I was gonna send a boost. Damn it. I'll send one next week. That'll be funny. It would be funny if I had to read my own boost, but let's let's go through.

1:08:50Rod Palmer Most people don't even listen so, man, you're right.

1:08:57Richard Greaser Late stage HODL. Do you know do you know late stage HODL,

1:09:00Evan Kaloudis Evan? No. It sounds familiar. There's a lot of pioneers to keep track of.

1:09:08Richard Greaser Are you, are you gonna be going to Lake Satoshi by chance in August?

1:09:14Evan Kaloudis I'm trying to sell my wife on it. Our local group here told me about it. Like like, Shads and Fundamentals, they told me about it. It sounds like a great time. If I could also, like, work in a trip to Detroit where we got another merchant that we're really excited about, it could be fantastic. But as of now, I don't think it's happening. I just got too much travel going on, unfortunately. Well But but maybe maybe next year at the very least, it would be great. Late stage Huddl will be there.

1:09:46Richard Greaser Just like a fire question before we get derailed, just like short answer on this one. Sure. How much Bitcoin do you think you need to be able to remodel your kitchen for your wife in fifteen years?

1:09:57Evan Kaloudis In fifteen years? For, like, a good remodeling job?

1:10:05Richard Greaser Like, 100 sats?

1:10:09Evan Kaloudis That might be a little low. Let's say, let's say 200.

1:10:16Richard Greaser 200 sats. Alright. There you go, folks. You don't need to be saving that fucking heart. These these guys, like, Taylor, if you could afford to remodel

1:10:26Evan Kaloudis the kitchen for your wife in fifteen years Oh, yeah. With 200 sats. Some for the rest of us. Like, shit, guys. Like, fucking zap the guys here. They're doing a great job with the pod. Like, let's get some more ad some more zap reads. You know? It's fucking value for value over here, guys. If that's if that's the fucking case,

1:10:44Richard Greaser then the you know how valuable the fold wheel is? Get, like, 5 sats a day. Fuck. That's you you just need your driveway. You need fucking, like, forty days of spinning the fold wheel to be able

1:11:04Richard Greaser to afford to get your wife a brand new kitchen in fifteen years. Oh, man. Imagine if it was really that good.

1:11:10Rod Palmer I can imagine how it Real realistically,

1:11:12Evan Kaloudis you know, like, hundred hundred thousand sads, you'll have a banging kitchen. Like, come on.

1:11:19Rod Palmer This is I don't wanna derail this too much, but last one. How how long then how much to afford one of those big ass stone walls that Stoney Bidson builds and always most pictures of?

1:11:32Evan Kaloudis Built by Stoney or just similar? Yeah. Built by Stoney. Like, you can have Stoney come out to your come out to your house and build it. In fucking fifteen years, that guy, you're gonna have to move mountains to get him to move stone for you. So probably a fucking, dude. But he do a great job. It looks like he does some fantastic work. Oh, yeah. We really dragged out that fire question. Sorry. But we hit on some good points. It's okay. That was fine.

1:12:01Richard Greaser It's all very important stuff we're discussing here, folks. Yeah. Yeah. Late stage HODL, 10,000 sets. I guess I forgot to boost last episode. Oops. Wish I had known Tatum would be on this one. I sent him a Plug Miner sticker or John did, and he put it on an s nine he had. Could see it in a few interviews.

1:12:23Evan Kaloudis Yeah. That's sweet. Always feels good when someone is using something you you gave to them or sent them.

1:12:33Richard Greaser That is cool. That is really cool. I like the guys that are in Governable Misfits a lot, and, it's fun that Tatum was connected to them in some way. The fuck the the bit axers killed the plot minor meme.

1:12:55Evan Kaloudis That's okay. It was it was enough. It probably

1:12:58Rod Palmer best to move on. We're pioneers now. They've they've Solo Sataoshi is they those guys, the bid ax guys with the plebs.

1:13:07Evan Kaloudis We're pioneers now. Right, guys. We gotta be doing real mining. Don't expect you to do the kitchen renovations at 200 sats. Let's let's set our Right. Right. Let's set our sights a little higher. You guys can do it. But still, at the same time, still fucking zap the show, you dicks.

1:13:22Richard Greaser Who who is the lightning net or lightning wallet of the plebs? Because zoo I would argue Zeus is definitely one of the ones the pioneers use. Oh, a 100% of pioneers. Well,

1:13:32Evan Kaloudis plebs is probably wallet of Satoshi or at least was. And now, you know, the plebs can barely make their heads from their asses at once. Strike. Yeah. Like, Strike. Just KYC. Do Cash App maybe. Mhmm. Whatever is easiest. They don't give a fuck about the KYC, a lot of those guys. So Yep.

1:13:50Richard Greaser So, like, you you think, like, when when a a Plab is going and trying to decentralize the network and buy a bit of Bitcoin from Solasatoshi,

1:14:00Evan Kaloudis they just use, like, Striker Cash App? No. They'll they'll first, they'll, like, log in to the Stripe account and they're like, oh, yeah. Stripe supports crypto, and then it's, like, only, like, the Ethereum based, like, stablecoin shitcoins. And they're like, oh, why can't why is the checkout not working? But, yeah, then they'll, like, eventually land on, like, a Cash App or a Strike or or something similar like that.

1:14:22Richard Greaser It's just it's wonderful the lengths people are going for decentralization these days.

1:14:30Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Well, could be worse.

1:14:33Richard Greaser Alright. This is a whole topic I wanted to get into, but I don't think we I don't think we should go to the boost, before we get too derailed. But I Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering if you ever want just, like, quick yes or no. I was wondering if you were ever going to use the decentralization, marketing meme

1:14:50Richard Greaser that all these guys use. Like the Bitax or use this, Ocean uses this. You have to use their product to decentralize something. Have you ever considered that as a marketing, effort for decentralizing the network the Lightning Network?

1:15:09Evan Kaloudis Oh, like, you gotta reuse Zeus Wallet to decentralize the Lightning Network like that meme?

1:15:15Richard Greaser Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you you you raise your fist up and you shake it in the air, and then you get invited on all these stages at conferences. So, you know, Nifty, I'll invite you to be TC plus plus to argue with just for Oh,

1:15:32Evan Kaloudis Oh, yeah. That's already happening. I'm gonna be in Berlin, baby. That'll be fun. That's a lightning one.

1:15:37Richard Greaser I mean, it it gets you on all the podcasts. You'll you'll go on Natalie's podcast. You'll go on Marty's podcast. In.

1:15:47Evan Kaloudis Right. You know, I do need to lean into that sort of meme ability. Flow over the bear branch. I thought you were gonna ask me if I was doing, like, zapvertising. I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah. We should do that. Oh, that is that is a very cool thing that, I think we should collaborate on one. There's so much text that you could put in one of those messages. Why don't we split the cost? Why don't we say, yo, dude, download Zeus and listen to Google Weekly. Like, that could be a great advertising. Send the whole network one set.

1:16:18Richard Greaser What's the, what's the limit data limit on a this advertisement?

1:16:30Evan Kaloudis You can get a decent amount of text in there. I'm not sure we could do two URLs, but they don't we don't need them in there. Just do forty hours per week.

1:16:39Richard Greaser Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Fucking download Zeus, run lightning, list forty hours per week. That's Yeah. I'll do this for it and say, yeah. Something like that. I'll put some stats towards Lin Alden's hot for sure.

1:16:50Evan Kaloudis Nice, man. We'll we'll work that out after this show. Alright. Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:54Richard Greaser Let's not get into the technicals.

1:16:56Evan Kaloudis Alright. Should I do this next one? Open mic?

1:16:59Richard Greaser If you wanna read them, you can for sure. Let's do it. Open mic. He zaps 7,777

1:17:07Evan Kaloudis sets. Bugle Mile High Club squeezing in my forty hours per week on route to satirize the system. And then, I think he put a link to the event.

1:17:18Richard Greaser Yep.

1:17:19Evan Kaloudis Thank you, Open Mike.

1:17:23Richard Greaser Yeah. It was really cool.

1:17:25Rod Palmer We haven't done this in a while. Yeah. So this is still pre conference. But, yeah, we we got to see Mike at the at the show. Nice.

1:17:35Richard Greaser Yeah. I I hope to be hanging out with him quite a bit in the future. I'm looking forward to it. He's, unfortunately, we had events at the same time. He's running the Noster event. And, that was a bummer that it conflicted like that because I I would have liked to have been at that. But our event got, like, pushed back too. I was gonna run over there at the end, but our event went way late. Have you met open mic, Evan?

1:18:06Evan Kaloudis I feel like I must have.

1:18:08Richard Greaser Yeah. He's a cool dude. He, he's a music executive, and he is, the guy behind Tunster, which is

1:18:20Evan Kaloudis the fork of zapped out stream where musicians Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I I think I met him a a while back. Did I see him at the show? I don't think so. But at at the same time at the show, it was, like, all over the place. I was a fucking mess. Yeah, Toonster is super cool. It's rad. We we need more music products in the space. We can't just let Waveleg do everything. There's so much more to do.

1:18:47Richard Greaser He's a cool dude. Yeah. I like Toonster a lot. Big fan. Time Sloth 5,000 sat says the overtime for 40 HPW of cerebral Adam Back podcast while going to sleep while being listened to in sleep is how real Bitcoin learning must occur. I apologize. I'm butchering the reading of that. I was trying to understand what the hell he was talking about.

1:19:13Evan Kaloudis In your sleep, maybe I'll give you point five x. I don't know.

1:19:17Richard Greaser It's weird. Do you ever listen to Adam Back podcast to fall asleep?

1:19:22Evan Kaloudis I mean, they're the best, dude. It's like so, yeah, that and the Bitcoin review podcast, like, what else do you need?

1:19:31Rod Palmer Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That was 5,000 sats. Thank you, time slot. We got a Stack Jiro 5,000 sats. The overtime oh, it's a, a duplicate. The next one is 2,121

1:19:49Rod Palmer sats from Odie, forty hours per week. First time I've heard of this Tatum guy. He needs to work more, with this Scandinavian audience. Maybe prioritize Oslo freedom forum before Vegas like BTC session spend did. Oh, looks like Tatum could be going to Oslo next year if he, if he wants to build his Scandinavian audience. There's a lot of probably a lot of hot chicks in Scandinavia who would like chicks. Yeah. Who would like a bit who would like a big a big Bitcoin miner like, like Tatum to keep him warm in the wintertime.

1:20:25Evan Kaloudis Yeah. That sounds like a grand slam. A lot of bond checks. Alright. I'm gonna do this next one. Odie, $40.40

1:20:32Richard Greaser HPW sends 2,000. That's a repeat. Read this one.

1:20:37Evan Kaloudis Oh, no. Sorry. Yeah. My bad. Bitcoin account or Bitcoin a c c t account Bitcoin account. I don't know. He sends 2,112 sets. He says, mister turn up's romantic success could make him Rocky Balboa, Luke Skywalker, or Gandhi

1:20:57Evan Kaloudis for the orange cells. Yeah. I agree. That would be massive.

1:21:03Richard Greaser The orange cells need a win. Huge.

1:21:06Evan Kaloudis Yeah. They do. And he can do it, Tatum. I

1:21:09Rod Palmer actually truly do believe in him. So that would be amazing. We need an orange we need an orange sales season, like, a season for the orange sales to just get in win after win. Somebody's gonna ask Aubrey Strobel to get a a beer with her at Pub Key. She's gonna say yes. Like, it's it's just gonna happen. You know? They're they're gonna get on podcasts, and we're gonna see a we're gonna see a renaissance for the newer himself. I don't know if it's soon. I hope it is. I hope it is for their sake, but it feels it feels like it could come. The vibes are shifting. It's okay. Just lower your time preference. You'll be okay. Exactly. Next one is, 500 sats from Turkey. Just a link. Thank you, Turkey. And then

1:21:52Rod Palmer I'll just do the next one because it's also a barn, a farm animal, Bob the cow. Tatum won't stay single for long if BTC keeps pumping. So Bob the cow, this cow, even the cows know that when BT pumps,

1:22:09Rod Palmer orange sales get more attractive. So maybe that's what brings orange sale season at a bull market.

1:22:15Evan Kaloudis Hell, yeah. I got this next one because I like the handle here. BTC onboard hashtag l enhance or hashtag CTV sends 300 sass. He sends three emojis, two thumbs up, and a lightning bolt. Love it, BTC onboard. Thank you.

1:22:31Rod Palmer What's your what's your rundown? What's, l enhance? Good or bad? Gay or is it gay? Is it good?

1:22:37Evan Kaloudis L enhance is is great. It's not, as earth shattering as some people say, but it would be a great enhancement. I'm more excited about CTV by itself, all the stuff that that opens up. Let's fucking activate it. But we we could get into that in another show. Rob Hamilton would probably twist your nipples hearing that. What do you mean? He's he's fucking signed the letter that said he's in favor of activating it. No. But

1:23:03Richard Greaser he he wants CTV and something else.

1:23:07Evan Kaloudis CTV and Chexig from Stack. Yeah. Yeah. We want them together.

1:23:11Richard Greaser He'll he'll just, like I I feel like he's saying CTV by itself is kinda like taking your nails and going across

1:23:17Evan Kaloudis the chalkboard for him. Oh, dude. Look who's up. And he's dropping multiple in a row over here.

1:23:24Richard Greaser Oh, you know this guy?

1:23:26Evan Kaloudis Oh, fucking Pies? Of course, dude. He's, like, probably the pioneer I wanna meet the most from, you know, from the Oscar.

1:23:35Richard Greaser Look, I already did one, two, three, four. You gotta let me read them all. So

1:23:41Rod Palmer god. No. You can read them all read them all and do and read them however you think pies were. Remember, do however you do it. Okay. Pies, hundred sat. Emoji this.

1:23:50Evan Kaloudis It's the bird being flipped, three mushrooms, three bicep, pumps. Fuck yeah, Pies. Love that. Next up, another one from Pies one hundred. Tatum dropped the vest and just hired me and my homies as security. Fantastic advice. Alert at least try it, Tatum. Like, I I know it's hard to get Pies out unless it's the weekend. He doesn't come out on weekdays.

1:24:15Rod Palmer These guys Well, good question. If you if you if you run up on Pies and his goons on a Saturday, though, watch out. Yeah.

1:24:23Evan Kaloudis You're gonna be knocked into next Thursday, buddy. Let me tell you. Gonna be missing out on your 40 HPW while you're fucking in a coma. Alright. Next up, Pies. Another 100. I think I got the street cred to come back to forty hours a week, but without the hashtag anymore. Well, I'm too OG for that shit. Pies the OG of 40 HPW. And he's got that crazy emoji with the tongue sticking out. Amazing. Pies again. 100 stats. Fuck anyone who isn't down with the bugle boys. If I ever meet someone in person who blocks the bugle,

1:24:60Evan Kaloudis they might get the $5 wrench attack. Rolling laughing emoji. Real talk, though. Crazy eyes emoji. Real talk, though, Pies. I love it. Another 100 stats from Pies. Fuck Vegas. Another 100 stats from Pies. I'm also retarded. I feel a lot better about my retardation after hearing about Tatum's retardation.

1:25:23Evan Kaloudis Rolling laughing emoji. True. True. That's a great thing about Tatum. He, he's honest. You know? He's, he will make you feel a little bit better about yourself with his, quandaries and positions, but

1:25:41Rod Palmer still love him. Still love him. But he will still get a better fucking podcast guest list than you. So

1:25:47Evan Kaloudis can't be one of them. Yeah. Yeah. That's for sure. That's for sure. Although, Pies goddamn it. Please have this podcast. Say some funny shit. This is great. And then Pies with another 100. He's got the, the beers, being cheered emoji. That's a good one. That's a good one. I should've cracked a beer for this pod. Maybe next one. Yep. Is that the end of them? That's the end of pies. Pies. Salute you, bro. Hopefully, I can meet you one

1:26:15Evan Kaloudis day in person. Fantastic pioneer.

1:26:18Richard Greaser So how how the fuck do I become the node routing these transactions for Pies so I can get all these routing fees from all these transactions?

1:26:27Evan Kaloudis Oh, you gotta get in the middle. You gotta figure out, okay, where are you guys hosting your node? And then you gotta figure out where fucking Pies wallet is. And you gotta become the middle man, lower your fees,

1:26:38Rod Palmer so you're the most competitive, and then bam. So But you should not let JB Morgan get pies as fucking business. That's for sure. Oh, no. That's

1:26:48Richard Greaser Realistically, what I would have to do is, like, get a channel open with Zebedee, which would probably be ginormous. Probably have to raise money on Geyser to open a channel with Zebedee and then open a channel with Pyz. I feel like the channel size I could open with Pyz could be like 10,000 sats. You You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be, like, a a very big channel with all these small transactions. I just have to balance it frequently. Yeah.

1:27:15Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Just to keep them rolling. Oh, no. There's one more. There's one left.

1:27:26Richard Greaser Doster gang, a 100¢, kissy and face emoji. Oh, maybe Tatum's got an admirer. Maybe that's what that means. There we go.

1:27:36Evan Kaloudis It's how it starts. We met in the zap we met in the zap comments on his podcast with the bugle.

1:27:45Rod Palmer To hear him said that he would love to find a girlfriend on Noster. I think there's probably some pretty hot chicks on Noster, and that's, you know, Tatum, let me agree it'd be great, like, how I met your mother story.

1:28:00Evan Kaloudis Met on Oster.

1:28:01Richard Greaser So a question for you, Evan. Are you at the age where you think it's acceptable to be referred to as mister yet? Have you hit that milestone in your life

1:28:17Richard Greaser where you're mister Columbus?

1:28:20Evan Kaloudis Yeah. It's, like, just about there where I'm like, okay. You know, I'm not gonna go and correct, like, the fucking 16 year old zip covered cashier and be like, no. Call me bro.

1:28:34Evan Kaloudis You know? Like, I can't do that. Cipher punk. Call me a call me a pioneer, dude. Do I look like a Sarah to you? Yeah. I don't know. It's I sort of just got accepted. I'm getting, like, the the grays in my hair, like, a lot the last year or two. I'm a dad now too. Like, I'm I'm basically there. Like, I I can't fight against it. You know? I'll I'll try to still I'm not gonna, like, change my my whole style. Like, I'll I'll still, like, be, like, a little kid and wear, like, soccer jerseys and stuff like that, like, stuff I still like. I won't, like,

1:29:10Evan Kaloudis man, maybe, like, ease out of it, but it's not like a oh, okay. Now I'm a grown man sort of thing right now. You know?

1:29:18Richard Greaser Have you ever met Rob Warren?

1:29:20Evan Kaloudis Rob Warren. Is that the politician? No. Who's Rob Warren?

1:29:27Richard Greaser He used to work for Riot. He does, like, a lot of, like, think boy stuff on Twitter.

1:29:31Rod Palmer Bytes and Bitcoin or whatever? Yeah. Mhmm. He used to work for upstream data mining guy. He was a good ponytail.

1:29:40Richard Greaser Yeah. You guys have a good ponytail? Yeah. I don't know too many thinky boy ponytail guys. Good. Yeah. What about him? You should meet him someday because I think he could be a good mentor for you and, like, the the dad clothing attire. You you see you see Rob Warren. You see you see him with his ponytail up. He's got,

1:30:02Rod Palmer like, a It's like he's going to Nashville.

1:30:05Richard Greaser He's got an old off colored, like, polisher. He's got it tucked into his, like not, like, fully bleached, but, like, somewhat bleached dad jeans that are a little bit baggier. And he's got his new balances on, his white new balances.

1:30:22Richard Greaser You know that guy. Will he rock a fanny pack? I think, yeah, he would totally rock a fan. I think he does.

1:30:30Evan Kaloudis That's pretty good. I got one that's, like, loaded with Bitcoin pins over there. I don't know where it is. But, yeah, I usually have some good goodies in there.

1:30:41Richard Greaser Yep. I think that's, it's an important, aspect of my I think it's important for us to to be to demand to be called mister as grown men. The broccoli haircuts need to be put in their fucking place. They need to know Listen. If they if they're, like, rude to me and be, like, bro,

1:31:01Evan Kaloudis like, you know, the the other way around, if you're not being professional and you're not getting shit done, then, yeah, like, sometimes you'll have to call out a little shit, especially if they're broccoli, hair cut it up, and along on top with a fade.

1:31:19Rod Palmer Yeah. I I I I would narrow it down further, Richard. I would node runners deserve to be called mister.

1:31:28Richard Greaser But do they have to be economic node runners?

1:31:33Evan Kaloudis Yeah. I mean, do you guys deserve to be called mister if you just spin up a fucking node to pump a pie chart of of If your wife knows the economic node of the household? Yeah. Like, seriously, who's wearing the pants? Who's who's validating the transactions in the house?

1:31:50Richard Greaser Or if your uncle Jimmy in office somebody else's Bitcoin node? If you're uncle Jim in off of Matt Odell's Bitcoin node, do you deserve to be called mister?

1:32:01Evan Kaloudis Right. And that's the sort of KYC information HR should be collecting so that they know, you know, people's titles, how to address them. Like but that that's not what they're interested in.

1:32:16Richard Greaser That's right, George.

1:32:18Evan Kaloudis Fuckin' it. Alright.

1:32:20Richard Greaser So, Evan, wrapping up. You got you got anything else you wanna talk about? Anything that's on your heart that you've never shared before on a previous Bitcoin podcast?

1:32:32Evan Kaloudis Wow. That's a great question. You know, I I feel like I mean, I I've told Rod this one, but if someone wants a good laugh and they wanna see me as an extra in a comedy skit, go look up Stavros Hakias, Bad Life Decisions with Evan Williams.

1:32:57Evan Kaloudis And I was an extra for this skit in this Greek restaurant in Astoria, and it is really funny, this skit. I'm just really glad to be, like, in the background and, like, the final shot. I think my my beard is much thinner, and my my hair is much shorter. But, yeah, I have a I have some really funny, really funny reaction shot at the end of that. So go check it out. I I never shared it because when I did, I was working at some, you know, corporate gig doing cybersecurity. But, yeah, I figured Bugle is a great place to to share it. Go check it out. I've only told a few people about it. Stavros Alkis, hilarious

1:33:35Rod Palmer comedian. From tires, the the general manager, Dave, who gets, you know, I don't mind to spoil it. But from tires, I mean, he's coming up.

1:33:43Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Yeah. He's great. He's gonna be, all over the place soon. Yeah. They got big on this punk podcast called Calm Town. It's all about being gay with your dad. Hilarious content.

1:33:56Rod Palmer Mark Goodwin loves Calm Town. He talks about it all the time.

1:33:60Evan Kaloudis Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that that's a good tidbit. I definitely haven't shared that on any Bitcoin podcast. So there you go. But, yeah, wrapping up, download Zeus, run your own node, validate your own transactions. Don't just spin up nodes for them to fucking fill up a number on a pie chart. Take control of your own keys. Aim to use lightning and Bitcoin self custodially and fucking build out circular economy onboard merchants,

1:34:30Evan Kaloudis and start locally. Start with your local meetup and start onboarding local merchants and try to get it going there. That's where you have the most immediate impact. I think that's about it, boys.

1:34:42Richard Greaser That sounds like you how you would end every other Bitcoin podcast.

1:34:46Rod Palmer How would you handle yeah. How would you tell people to handle the pressure of trying to onboard merchants by showing them a Bitcoin wallet and trying to use the tran the set of transactions. So if they're trying to onboard a merchant, they should use what should they use? The wallet that can handle the pressure.

1:35:05Rod Palmer Zeiss wallet. Zoos Wallet. Zoos Wallet. Trying to or somebody, you need the wallet that can handle the pressure because the developer behind it can handle the pressure.

1:35:14Richard Greaser The wallet If I can move

1:35:16Evan Kaloudis that that mean listen. That's that's the whole goal of the wallet. We wanna make you feel like a god, and we wanna make the merchants look like gods. It's You gotta have that godlike handling of the pressure, and you need that distraction in case things go wrong with those beautiful, beautiful graphics. And we got you covered. The only wallet that got you covered in that regard, Zeus Wallet.

1:35:38Rod Palmer The CEO of the company is the is is in the same wallet to orange pill people as you. Value for value. Exactly. Exactly.

1:35:47Evan Kaloudis And, yeah, we're just we're just small team just trying to make it work one day at a time, and, we're just gonna keep on keeping on. Fuck KYC. Fuck paper Bitcoin unless it's Cashew, and which is also KYC.

1:36:04Evan Kaloudis And, yeah. And fuck HR. Zeus doesn't have an HR department, so that's just working in our favor too. That's such a good selling point.

1:36:12Richard Greaser I'm looking at the wallet. Seriously. Do you have an do you have an employee handbook?

1:36:18Evan Kaloudis No. No. I I fucking tell my employees as I go, like, dude, don't do that. Or, oh, yeah. That's good. Yeah. Just real really rare so far having issues with employees like that. Yeah. They were worse than helping. Hopefully, I could exit before the time Zeus needs HR. Hopefully, it never really does, but we'll see what happens. One day at a time.

1:36:41Richard Greaser How many how many rounds of funding from, ten thirty one do you need in order to be able where you're, like, expected to have an HR department?

1:36:51Evan Kaloudis Shit. I really don't know. I really don't know. And I don't know. The way the way things are going, like, hopefully, we don't need to do funding. I mean, it's sort of working right now. I mean, obviously, it's it's tough because we're trying to grow too. But, dude, I mean, yeah, after you could do two round once you get to series a, I guess, you gotta fucking do it. And and we we have we haven't even done our seed around. We just did a little,

1:37:19Evan Kaloudis incubator around with our boys at Wolf. So, yeah, you're nowhere close to becoming,

1:37:24Rod Palmer a register paper Bitcoin company.

1:37:27Evan Kaloudis No. No. Although, I am trying to get, Walker from, the TikTok podcast to get me on his board if he does do his own paper Bitcoin company. I I mean, if not the board, I'll be the IT guy. I'll run the lightning node, which won't be running not, unfortunately, so don't kill me.

1:37:46Richard Greaser Well, very cool, Evan. Really thank you coming for coming on the show. I thought this was a great conversation. I think people are gonna walk away from this feeling like they've learned a lot. And, it was a good use of everybody's, you know, part of their forty hours this week. So I really appreciate it. Yeah. Cheers, boys.

1:38:07Evan Kaloudis Fantastic as always. I'm gonna run it back one more time. I'm gonna listen to it probably at one x speed because I'm not a degenerate. And, you know, it'll count double towards my hours. It's gonna be great. Maybe I'll even zap you guys.

1:38:23Evan Kaloudis Give you a little boost.

1:38:25Richard Greaser That'd be cool. Well, thank you again, and, we'll we'll catch you everybody on the next episode of Behind the Podcast.

1:38:42Evan Kaloudis I met you on the Nasdaq in late July. Your wallet said you held a little blue sky. You said it's big corn, baby. Pure and true. But your sats were sitting in a trust or two. You whispered dreams of sex with romance. But your private keys were held at corn baits

1:41:05Evan Kaloudis when margin calls, when block five burns and Mount Gox folds, will you remember that one true claim or sell me short again in someone else's name? Don't re hide, Paul. For Kate, my heart.

1:41:26Evan Kaloudis I'm not a token. You can just