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Transcript: Cypherpunks Use Ordinals Mode with Erin Redwing | Behind the Podcast Episode 14
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diff --git a/wiki/transcripts/cypherpunks-use-ordinals-mode-with-erin-redwing-behind-the-podcast-episode-14.md b/wiki/transcripts/cypherpunks-use-ordinals-mode-with-erin-redwing-behind-the-podcast-episode-14.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..a4d2c5a9 @@ -0,0 +1,707 @@ +--- +title: "Transcript: Cypherpunks Use Ordinals Mode with Erin Redwing | Behind the Podcast Episode 14" +type: transcript +episode: cypherpunks-use-ordinals-mode-with-erin-redwing-behind-the-podcast-episode-14 +generated: true +date: 2025-04-24 +audio: "https://feeds.fountain.fm/R8scBF2Wiykm0YVldsHQ/items/UhnmpWjlTWJ2BucgS8vE/files/AUDIO---DEFAULT---b7c6db6b-0b59-41c6-83d6-c098a3e1de93.mp3" +duration: "2:08:36" +sources: + - raw/episodes/cypherpunks-use-ordinals-mode-with-erin-redwing-behind-the-podcast-episode-14/bundle.json +--- + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-0">0:00</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Kailey Welch</b> <span class="cue" id="t-0" data-t="0">Hey, guys. It's Kaylee. Richard asked me to warn you that you may find this episode upsetting.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5" data-t="5">This interview contains content that some Bitcoin maximalist may find disturbing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-9" data-t="9">I have faith in you though. We all know the forty hour per week podcast listener embraces nuance and diversity of opinions, But for the casuals listening to this episode, listener discretion is advised. All complaints on the episode should be submitted to buglenews@protonmail.com.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-24" data-t="24">If you don't wanna talk to a bugle team member about your complaints, make sure to message Predator on Twitter for third party emotional support. I hope you enjoy the show.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-33">0:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Timmy Tether</b> <span class="cue" id="t-33" data-t="33">Timmy Tether here. Are you ready to unleash your thermodynamically</span> <span class="cue" id="t-37" data-t="37">sound style? Then check out the Bugle's forty hours per week collection</span> <span class="cue" id="t-41" data-t="41">available exclusively at OrangeLabel.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-44" data-t="44">By wearing forty hours per week tees, you're making a statement.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-48" data-t="48">You're letting people know that you don't have time to waste.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-52" data-t="52">Made from premium cotton that feels as good as withdrawing your Bitcoin from exchanges directly into cold storage,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-59">0:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Timmy Tether</b> <span class="cue" id="t-59" data-t="59">These shirts come in various styles for both Bitcoin podcasters and Bitcoin podcast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-65" data-t="65">listeners.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-66" data-t="66">Whether you're listening to your favorite Bitcoin podcast at the gym meetup or just wanna start conversations</span> <span class="cue" id="t-72" data-t="72">about the future of money,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-73" data-t="73">these shirts speak your language. Available in sizes extra small to two XL and priced at just 0.000012</span> <span class="cue" id="t-82" data-t="82">Bitcoin.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-83">1:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Timmy Tether</b> <span class="cue" id="t-83" data-t="83">Or if you prefer Fiat, we accept that too. Head on over to orangelabel.co</span> <span class="cue" id="t-88" data-t="88">and look for the 40 h p w tag for the latest threads from the Bugle.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-100">1:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-100" data-t="100">Welcome to this very special</span> <span class="cue" id="t-102" data-t="102">edition of behind the podcast. This is, Richard Grieser tuning in. Joining me today is Aaron Redwing and Ron Palmer as usual.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-112" data-t="112">If any of you guys don't know who Aaron Redwing is, she is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-118" data-t="118">quite an exceptional person. I've been listening to the Hell Money podcast. I've added that to my forty hours</span> <span class="cue" id="t-124" data-t="124">per per week.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-126" data-t="126">And I my mind has been blown because it</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-130">2:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-130" data-t="130">you know, the reason why we listen to forty hours a week of podcast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-134" data-t="134">is for entropy because one hour a week, two hours a week, five hours a week isn't enough. You can't really hit that max entropy. Once you when you you start hitting forty hours,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-143" data-t="143">you get tired of hearing Jeff Booth go on everybody's show and seeing the exact same things every time. You get tired of the macro. You can only take so much macro, and you have to start getting out there</span> <span class="cue" id="t-155" data-t="155">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-156" data-t="156">hearing something different. And Aaron,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-159" data-t="159">Redwing here, does a phenomenal job on the show Hell Money</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-163">2:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-163" data-t="163">with her co host Casey Ordinals,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-166" data-t="166">and they discuss a wide variety of things such as</span> <span class="cue" id="t-170" data-t="170">ordinals, which, you know, I I don't understand at all. It sounds like people are putting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-176" data-t="176">data in the blockchain</span> <span class="cue" id="t-177" data-t="177">that doesn't consist of transaction data. And, Luke Junior is really upset about it, but it is interesting to hear about. But one of the things that I found very fascinating, Aaron,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-189" data-t="189">is your takes on astrology</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-192">3:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-192" data-t="192">and your takes on spirituality</span> <span class="cue" id="t-195" data-t="195">as a whole. And it sounds like we're either in or I I don't really understand it, but it sounds like we're either in or we're entering into the age of Aquarius.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-206">3:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-206" data-t="206">But, yeah, how are you doing tonight? What's going on? I'm I'm good. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here because I consider</span> <span class="cue" id="t-213" data-t="213">myself to be a troll podcaster in a lot of ways, and so it's good to be amongst, you know, others like that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-219" data-t="219">I also appreciate the shout out of adding how money to the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-223" data-t="223">forty hours per week of podcast. I think it I think it's a nice palate cleanser.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-228" data-t="228">I think it's a little bit of you know, if you're used to listening to, like, macro econ pseudoscience for the majority of your forty hours, you can put in a little bit of astrology, pseudo pseudoscience in there, and it just kinda switches things up. It doesn't shake the boat too much. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-243" data-t="243">yeah. Happy to be here. Very excited to talk about astrology, Bitcoin spirituality,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-248">4:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-248" data-t="248">ordinals, which is just Bitcoin astrology in its own way.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-253" data-t="253">Yeah. I'm excited to get into it.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-256">4:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-256" data-t="256">They're good. So, one thing a good Bitcoin podcast provides listeners</span> <span class="cue" id="t-260" data-t="260">is outflow.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-262" data-t="262">But something that a real a bit of thermodynamically</span> <span class="cue" id="t-265" data-t="265">sound Bitcoin podcast provides is entropy. So, yeah. But, like, astrology is a great topic for the podcast entropy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-272" data-t="272">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-277" data-t="277">most people think that macro is the astrology</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-281">4:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-281" data-t="281">of, you know, like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-282" data-t="282">the relationship</span> <span class="cue" id="t-283" data-t="283">there is like macro is astrology for dudes who, you know, work on Wall Street.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-289" data-t="289">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-290" data-t="290">it sounds like it is you've compared it to something else.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-294">4:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-294" data-t="294">Yeah. I mean, I think it in a lot of ways, it could literally be astrology.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-299" data-t="299">So part of the, you know, astrology,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-301" data-t="301">a lot of people just think of it as, like, you know, sun sign horoscopes. Right? Like, I'm a Leo. What does that mean my day is gonna be like? Or what does that mean about my personality?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-310" data-t="310">But astrology is thousands of years old, and it's kinda gone through a lot of iterations.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-315" data-t="315">And one of the iterations that it went through in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds</span> <span class="cue" id="t-320" data-t="320">was, when daily newspapers became a popular thing, where you would get a paper delivered to your door every single day. All of a sudden, all these newspaper companies</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-329">5:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-329" data-t="329">needed,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-330" data-t="330">content every single day. And so they were trying to find what sort of columns can have something that every single day there's something to say that people will wanna read. And the three categories that they came up with was weather,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-341" data-t="341">economics, so like market forecast for the day, and astrology.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-345" data-t="345">And that's how sun sign horoscopes were born. Like, we didn't do sun sign horoscopes until</span> <span class="cue" id="t-351" data-t="351">basically the twentieth century.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-354" data-t="354">And it was essentially an invention of newspapers. And so the reason why I say some of economics may literally be astrology</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-360">5:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-360" data-t="360">is that what that created was a bunch of media rooms where there were astrologers and economists</span> <span class="cue" id="t-365" data-t="365">working side by side, oftentimes dating and marrying and having social circles. And if you look at kind of like the the econ bros that emerge, especially in the Bitcoin space where people talk a lot about economic collapse and things aren't working and let's look at history and see how we're repeating. A lot of the cycles that come out are literally astrological cycles like Ray Dalio has the two hundred and fifty year cycle of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-390" data-t="390">empire rise and fall, which probably a lot of people are familiar with. That is literally the Pluto return cycle. The Pluto return cycle is two hundred fifty years</span> <span class="cue" id="t-397" data-t="397">exactly. There's another plot. Maybe I'll send it to you guys. I don't know if you have, like if if I can get, like, documents in here for for your viewers to,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-405">6:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-405" data-t="405">to look at. But there's another one that looks at different cycles in economics, and the cycles are eighty four years,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-411" data-t="411">a hundred and sixty five years, and two hundred and fifty years, which is the Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto cycles respectively.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-417" data-t="417">And the last step that I The fourth turning is astrology. Four turning. Yep. Four turning is the Uranus return cycle, approximately eighty years.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-425" data-t="425">And so, you know, I don't really know if these people that publish these things explicitly know that they're astrology. I think it's possible that the economic models that they're using have just slowly integrated astrology probably just from that genesis of working with astrologers in media from an, you know, early nineteen hundreds.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-442" data-t="442">But in a lot of cases, like, the reason why I affectionately referred to economics as pseudoscience is because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-448" data-t="448">it it is like trying to model fit without a real plausible mechanism, which is what astrology does. Right? It's like the study of cycles, trying to pattern match, and then saying this will happen because it happened before.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-460">7:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-460" data-t="460">And and I think, like, the two fields I mean, it's just like, whatever, econ b f, astrology g f. Like, it's it's a perfect dialectic between men and women. And I think that's ultimately</span> <span class="cue" id="t-471" data-t="471">why when I meet people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-473" data-t="473">in Bitcoin, which are primarily men,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-475" data-t="475">if they have their wives with them, their wives are, like, totally tuned out until I say, I'm a Bitcoin astrologer. And then all of a sudden, they're like, you're a Bitcoin astrologer? I'm a Taurus, and he's a Capricorn. What does that mean? And I'm like, oh, well bitcoin's a Capricorn too. That maybe is why he likes it. And like, all of a sudden their wife is so much more interested in this thing that probably he's been trying to get her into for the last five to ten years.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-497" data-t="497">And so I I don't know. It's astrology brought me to Bitcoin. That was what got me into Bitcoin in the first place.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-503" data-t="503">And so it felt natural for me to just kind of go into that niche and and make content around that because that's that feels like my bread and butter. And also, Bitcoin people are so culty</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-513">8:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-513" data-t="513">that I feel like they kind of need something</span> <span class="cue" id="t-515" data-t="515">to to grab on to that's not just like say that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-519" data-t="519">You know? So</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-520">8:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-520" data-t="520">the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-522" data-t="522">a lot of our listeners, they have a problem. They're orange cells. A lot of the guys who listen to a lot of macro,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-528" data-t="528">they're libertarians,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-529" data-t="529">but they're orange cells, which means, you know, they're really struggling to orange pill anybody.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-534" data-t="534">Definitely can't orange pill their girlfriends, and they're very frustrated with it. But these are also, like, the people that are most like to be, you know, somebody who makes fun of astrology or who don't, you know, thinks that it's bullshit.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-546" data-t="546">But,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-547">9:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-547" data-t="547">maybe if they knew, like, the compatible signs and they, like, narrowed their orange pilling to, like, if they're an Aries, like, they would try to orange pill, you know, a a compatible sign. Maybe they didn't find that they had more block.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-560">9:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-560" data-t="560">Yeah. I mean, I think if they just,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-562" data-t="562">you know, if when they were trying to explain to their wives, girlfriends, prospective lovers, whatever,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-567" data-t="567">if they said, you know, oh, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-570" data-t="570">Bitcoin's actually really interesting because it has an exact birth time, so you can do really precise astrology on it. And I think that's really cool. I'm not into it personally,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-578" data-t="578">but I know some people that are. Like, I think that might do a lot more to get someone particularly a woman you're interested in To to Women are It's like better bait. You know? Women are always interested in the boring details. So to teach your girlfriend or your wife the boring details,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-593">9:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-593" data-t="593">and that's how, like, maybe she'll get into Bitcoin. Yeah. Exactly. You gotta hook her. You know?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-598">9:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-598" data-t="598">Well, I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-600" data-t="600">yeah. So so when you're thinking of an orange shell, you're thinking of the guy, you know, who goes on a Tinder date or a Hinge date. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-608" data-t="608">And about five minutes into the date, they're already trying to explain</span> <span class="cue" id="t-613" data-t="613">Michael Sailor's explanation of thermodynamics.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-616" data-t="616">Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-617" data-t="617">And the woman sitting there and they're like, this guy is an idiot.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-622">10:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-622" data-t="622">Dennis Porter and Michael Sailor don't make me horny. It might make them horny, but it's not my thing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-629" data-t="629">Do you think that it would be more productive</span> <span class="cue" id="t-632" data-t="632">for men</span> <span class="cue" id="t-633" data-t="633">on a first date instead of explaining</span> <span class="cue" id="t-636" data-t="636">some esoteric aspect about Bitcoin to that woman in the first five minutes to open up with what their,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-643">10:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-643" data-t="643">astrology sign is and to do a little bit more research on that? Oh, for sure. I mean, just on a very basic level beyond Bitcoin, like, I think, astrology is, like, a super easy topic of conversation with people. I actually like astrology as a filter for people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-659" data-t="659">mostly because I think it weeds out people that are</span> <span class="cue" id="t-662" data-t="662">closed minded for no reason.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-664" data-t="664">I very rarely, if ever,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-666" data-t="666">met people that hate astrology that actually know about it at all.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-671" data-t="671">I worked in I was actually an astronomer before I was an astrologer. It's kind of a weird story. Like, I I was doing my PhD in planetary science when I got into astrology, and I ended up dropping out of that and kind of going full time in astrology. But I lived a double life for quite a long time, and astronomers are some of the most</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-688">11:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-688" data-t="688">antagonistic people to astrology.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-692" data-t="692">And it's it's very strange to me because they're not,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-695" data-t="695">in conflict. Like, astrologers aren't trying to explain the structure of the universe. Right? They're just sort of trying to ascribe meaning to it. And they like when there are new astronomical things found. Like they just sort of add it to their lore, and it's fun for them. But I think what happens with astronomers is, like, they get it in their head that in some way this is competing with them, or maybe they've told people, oh, I'm an astronomer, and the person says, oh my god. I'm a Gemini. And that, like, pisses them off for some reason. But in any case, like, they're the most triggered, antagonistic people towards astrology,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-724" data-t="724">like, in general that I've had to deal with, and I had to deal with them for many years. And so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-730" data-t="730">I've kind of developed like a like I there's nothing that phases me that someone can say about astrology. Like I don't care if it's fake at this point. I I've kind of like I've I've said everything to myself. I've tried to investigate it from a logical empirical perspective as much as I can, and I can't help but believe in it. It's like a mine virus, just like Bitcoin.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-750">12:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-750" data-t="750">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-751" data-t="751">you know, I think I think ultimately</span> <span class="cue" id="t-753" data-t="753">what shows to me when someone is very antagonistic to astrology</span> <span class="cue" id="t-757" data-t="757">is usually just like a general grumpiness that's not very attractive in</span> <span class="cue" id="t-761" data-t="761">general. So it's not so much that you need to be an expert on astrology and like know that you're a Gemini and she's a Scorpio, and that could be a dangerous but sexy match. It's more that like if you come across like, oh, that's stupid. I think what you're doing is dumb and fake, and then you say, hey, but my digital money that you don't know anything about is very real, and I need you to care about that. It doesn't indicate that you're really gonna be a good match. Doesn't indicate that you're smart at all.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-788">13:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-788" data-t="788">Yeah. I mean, it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-790" data-t="790">what do you what do you do to these these people that dislike astrology and very low information people? Do you tell them to have fun staying poor? Do you have, like, a whole bunch of memes up your sleeve that you throw at them?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-804">13:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-804" data-t="804">Yeah. Do you do you listen to forty hours of astrology podcasts per week, or did you, at a time,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-810">13:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-810" data-t="810">listen to forty hours of astrology? I listen to more astrology content than I do Bitcoin content. That's part of why I started a Bitcoin podcast because I thought that there was</span> <span class="cue" id="t-819" data-t="819">there was there was a missing niche for a Bitcoin podcast just like mine. Every know you should have. Every Bitcoin podcaster feels.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-827">13:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-827" data-t="827">And you're right. And you're right.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-830">13:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-830" data-t="830">But, yeah, I definitely am more on the astrology side of things. Well, ordinals sort of changed that because ordinals was unexpected.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-838" data-t="838">All of a sudden, I was at the center of an ecosystem that where I went on Bitcoin Twitter, and everyone was, like, talking about Casey, and that was a very weird experience. But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-848" data-t="848">before that, I was, like, much more on astrology Internet than I was on Bitcoin Internet, because Bitcoin Internet's very boring in a lot of ways.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-857" data-t="857">But honestly, like, in terms of dealing with astrology haters,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-860" data-t="860">as I said, like, I was a trained scientist. I was an astronomer. I have already</span> <span class="cue" id="t-865" data-t="865">done all of the breaking down of why it's fake, and it's like I just still don't care. I think it's I have a lot of reasons why I think it's real, but ultimately, they all boil down to belief,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-876">14:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-876" data-t="876">not to something that could be empirically tested.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-880" data-t="880">And so it does kinda just become a situation where I think when people hate astrology,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-885" data-t="885">they're expecting someone who's not me on the other side of that. And so it's just like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-890" data-t="890">it becomes like a weird argument where it doesn't quite match up with their expectations in a way that throws them off.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-896">14:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-896" data-t="896">Would you say that there's more scammers and grifters in Bitcoin</span> <span class="cue" id="t-900" data-t="900">or in astrology?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-901">15:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-901" data-t="901">Oh, that's a great question.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-905" data-t="905">Certainly Bitcoin. I mean, now, you know, I came from the Bitcoin maxi side of things originally,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-911" data-t="911">but now with ordinals, I'm much more exposed to crypto.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-914" data-t="914">Obviously, there's way more scammers and grifters in crypto, but,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-919" data-t="919">it's shocking to me how many people are</span> <span class="cue" id="t-923" data-t="923">kind of outright sociopaths</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-925">15:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-925" data-t="925">in a way that's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-926" data-t="926">I don't know. It makes sense. Right? I guess, like, it's it's incentive kind of antagonistic</span> <span class="cue" id="t-931" data-t="931">environment, but,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-934" data-t="934">astrology is much more,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-937" data-t="937">people are just, like, into it and wanna talk about it. That being said, you know, I think most people have had the experience of meeting some spirituality person who just looks completely dead behind the eyes and, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-948" data-t="948">seems like they have literally no soul. And I do think that spirituality topics in general attract people who have really dark past that want to, like, spiritually bypass that and be forgiven.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-958">15:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-958" data-t="958">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-959" data-t="959">on the extreme end, there might be more</span> <span class="cue" id="t-962" data-t="962">sociopaths, like scammer, grifter, whatever in astrology, but I would say as a general rule, astrology people are much more like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-969" data-t="969">intuitive noticers that just wanna, like, observe phenomena and track them to a pattern, you know?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-976">16:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-976" data-t="976">Makes sense. Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-978" data-t="978">Well, the the way that I came to believe in astrology</span> <span class="cue" id="t-981" data-t="981">and become interested in it is because it's biblical. The bible says astrology is real.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-986" data-t="986">And this is one of the things that I found really kind of strange is that I feel like a lot of people that are the biggest critics of astrology are are staunch Christians</span> <span class="cue" id="t-997" data-t="997">in a lot of ways.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-999" data-t="999">And, you know, the reality is, you know, if there's anybody listening like Luke Luke Junior, for example, he probably doesn't really care for he doesn't like ordinals. He doesn't like astrology.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1008">16:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1008" data-t="1008">But it's like, Luke,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1009" data-t="1009">if you read the bible and you read about the birth of Jesus, which you should do every Christmas and you probably do with your family, you probably have your 25 kids sitting down and you're reading them the story of Jesus</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1020" data-t="1020">being born in the manger. Guess who showed up to the party?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1025">17:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Unknown</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1025" data-t="1025">The astrologers showed up. The astrologers Three wise men.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1028">17:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1028" data-t="1028">Exactly.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1030">17:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1030" data-t="1030">So The three wise men following a star</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1032" data-t="1032">to the birth of Jesus Christ. Yeah. I mean, that was the beginning of the age of Pisces.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1037" data-t="1037">So you mentioned earlier that we're in this, like, transition to the age of Aquarius.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1041" data-t="1041">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1042" data-t="1042">the ages are the longest cycle in astrological</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1045" data-t="1045">time. They're two thousand years approximately,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1048">17:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1048" data-t="1048">and that's the procession of you know how Earth is not,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1052" data-t="1052">it's hard for me to gesture while also staying in front of the mic. Earth's rotation is not purely up and down. It's like at an angle. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1059" data-t="1059">So that that angle of rotation</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1062" data-t="1062">shifts over time, and that takes about twenty six thousand years for it to go the whole way around. So if you divide that up by 12 signs, 12 quadrants of the sky, you have these astrological ages</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1073" data-t="1073">where the equinox is pointed at a specific astrological sign.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1077" data-t="1077">So the birth of Jesus Christ, which is what the three wise men were looking for, was the beginning of the age of Pisces. Those three wise men, they were astrologers.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1086">18:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1086" data-t="1086">They were looking to see, okay, we're following this specific sign for the beginning of this next astrological two thousand year cycle. We wanna be there. We wanna, like, pay our respects and be a part of it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1097" data-t="1097">And now with the age of the Internet, we're entering into a new age, which I can get into, but to stay on the the Christian side of it,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1104" data-t="1104">you're absolutely right. Like, Christianity and astrology</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1108" data-t="1108">have never really been antagonistic to each other. If you look at, the astronomers during the enlightenment that were saying things like, oh, actually I think the earth revolves around the sun, and then, like, getting killed by the church for that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1120" data-t="1120">or under house arrest or whatever,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1122" data-t="1122">those people were primarily practicing astrologers who did astronomy as a hobby. Galileo was a great example.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1129">18:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1129" data-t="1129">Galileo was a practicing astrologer. That's how he made his income. The church knew this, had no problem with it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1134" data-t="1134">As long as you didn't say, like, that the planets were gods themselves or</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1138" data-t="1138">that you sort of tried to imply that you had some specific</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1142" data-t="1142">mystical way of knowing things that made you kind of above other people.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1146" data-t="1146">The church was totally fine with astrology.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1148" data-t="1148">The problem that they had with people like Galileo</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1151">19:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1151" data-t="1151">was that they were challenging the structure of the universe, which was an astronomical idea. And so, like, I think somewhere along the way,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1159" data-t="1159">kind of just like a satanic panic narrative got tied up into what people think astrology is. Also, astrology is a little bit pagan, so I kind of understand, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1169" data-t="1169">if you do,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1171" data-t="1171">you know, get into, like, oh, Jupiter's a god. Saturn's a god. Whatever. Like, that's like Roman and Greek, like, paganism. Right? So I kind of understand where people start to get their wires crossed. But historically speaking,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1182" data-t="1182">there was never a division between astrology</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1185" data-t="1185">and Christianity. Or I should say there was never an antagonism between those two groups. So I don't know. I always think it's interesting that that people go there. Because to me, again, it just shows ignorance. Right? It just shows they don't know what they're talking about. They're kinda just like</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1198">19:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1198" data-t="1198">vibe checking, because they don't understand and they're scared of it. But like literally age of Pisces, Pisces is a fish, Christian fish is the Jesus symbol, like the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1206" data-t="1206">you know the the brain, psychedelic, schizophrenia</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1209" data-t="1209">connections should all be connecting now where you realize like oh my god it all makes sense.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1214">20:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1214" data-t="1214">Like is there can you find</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1218" data-t="1218">connections or patterns between like the major religions like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1221" data-t="1221">Christianity,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1222" data-t="1222">Islam, Judaism, Bitcoin maximalism. Like, can those can you find can you explain those can you find patterns in that by using astrology? Like, what are, like, the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1232" data-t="1232">common, you know, interpretations?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1235">20:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1235" data-t="1235">Yeah. So I would say,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1236" data-t="1236">the age of Pisces, which is the age that we're leaving, but that we've been in since, you know, year zero,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1242" data-t="1242">was the age of monotheism.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1244" data-t="1244">Pisces actually, can I ask you guys what your signs are? Is that too doxing?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1249">20:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1249" data-t="1249">I'm Aries.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1251">20:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1251" data-t="1251">Love that. I'm</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1252">20:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1252" data-t="1252">a Gemini.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1253">20:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1253" data-t="1253">Wow. Slight. Okay. Bitcoin's an Aries moon, so there's a lot of Aries in Bitcoin because they're attracted to, like, Bitcoin's inner world. Anyway,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1262" data-t="1262">the age of Pisces and Pisces as a sign in general is all about, like, dissolving yourself</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1268" data-t="1268">into a a larger conglomerate. So Pisces are not very individually</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1273" data-t="1273">minded. They're not good at kind of having their own individual direction.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1277" data-t="1277">They can fall into escapism.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1279" data-t="1279">They can fall into delusions.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1281">21:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1281" data-t="1281">And so Pisces prefer to sort of defer to someone else for knowledge.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1285" data-t="1285">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1286" data-t="1286">basically, I think when you look at the major monotheistic religions that have dominated the last two thousand years, you see that as their structure, where it's like you kind of have to go further and further up to the top in order to get information,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1298" data-t="1298">and you yourself don't have an individual way of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1302" data-t="1302">connecting with God, or at least not sort of through the traditional church</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1306" data-t="1306">teachings.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1308">21:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1308" data-t="1308">I think Bitcoin maximalism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1310" data-t="1310">a lot of the kind of Bitcoin Maxi religion</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1313" data-t="1313">is is repeating these patterns.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1315" data-t="1315">But I think if you really talk to people who are actually,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1319" data-t="1319">like, deeply spiritual about Bitcoin, not in, like, a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1323" data-t="1323">performative</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1324">22:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1324" data-t="1324">crisis of faith filling the gaps with something just because they they lost faith in traditional institutions and they need to just replace it. You talk to people who really have, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1333" data-t="1333">a true spirituality around Bitcoin,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1335" data-t="1335">they often just have a general reverence for the age of transformation</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1339" data-t="1339">in the Internet that we're in right now. So it's more that they're kind of like Accelerationists.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1344" data-t="1344">Yeah. Exactly. They're like, okay. Like, we don't know how many years we have left until the AI controls everything. Like, I'm not saying that's a good way to be, like, spiritually or religiously, but it's a little bit different. It's almost like they're they're, like, trying to put the pieces together themselves. They're acting like conspiracy theorists or, like, weirdos in, like, the dark forms trying to, like, understand the secrets of the universe. It's a very different thing than, like, going to the church of Michael Saylor and, like, expressing your worship that way. So I don't know. I think Bitcoin maxis are a little bit</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1376">22:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1376" data-t="1376">misguided in that I think the the spiritual reverence that they feel is real, but I think they don't have the language to articulate</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1384" data-t="1384">the type of spirituality that's emerging</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1387" data-t="1387">with the Internet age. And so that's why I kind of wanted to start talking about Bitcoin astrology, not because I think everyone</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1393" data-t="1393">is gonna be into astrology. It kinda takes a specific,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1398" data-t="1398">you know, I don't know. I like systems. I like I like cycles. I like to be able to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1403" data-t="1403">make predictions and check myself. It gives a lot of structure for understanding time cycles around you, which in a very volatile market can can be helpful.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1412">23:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1412" data-t="1412">But I think that sort of movement towards, like, coming up with your own spiritual ways of understanding things rather than expecting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1420" data-t="1420">someone else higher up above you to do it for you, that's what we should be doing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1425" data-t="1425">as Bitcoiners in general. Right? Like, that's what Bitcoiners love to think of themselves as. They're like, I'm sovereign individual. But it's like, you're not, bro, if you're just, like, parroting the opinions of someone else higher than you that actually doesn't even really know how Bitcoin works in the first place.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1440">24:00</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1440" data-t="1440">You don't think Corey Clipston knows how Bitcoin works?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1444">24:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1444" data-t="1444">Actually, I have some hot takes about Corey Clipston.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1447" data-t="1447">I think Corey We we have some too. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. Who doesn't?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1452" data-t="1452">Corey is interesting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1453" data-t="1453">because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1455" data-t="1455">I feel like Corey is kind of, yeah, one of those, like, genuine sociopath types that I was talking about before.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1461" data-t="1461">Corey in the early days of ordinals was actually quite friendly to me and Casey. He reached out. He wanted to talk. He was like, hey, bro. It's so cool you're doing stuff on Bitcoin. Like, I'm so excited for you if you ever need help.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1475">24:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1475" data-t="1475">And then I think he realized that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1478" data-t="1478">the fact that ordinals was driving up fees was a direct threat to Swan's business model, which tries to prioritize low fee transactions.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1488" data-t="1488">I don't know if he realized it, someone else realized it. This is sort of me filling in the the dots. And then I think the Swan Media conglomerate</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1495" data-t="1495">kind of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1496" data-t="1496">pushed the narrative through all of their</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1498" data-t="1498">pod con,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1500">24:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1500" data-t="1500">you know, extended universe to say</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1503" data-t="1503">ordinals are immoral. Right? It's it's actually not about the technical things that have to do with my business model not working in a high fee environment, which by the way will always be a problem if Bitcoin succeeds. It's it's that it's spam. It's immoral.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1516" data-t="1516">This is this is degenerate scammy behavior.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1519" data-t="1519">And and I think that narrative</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1521" data-t="1521">emerged</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1522" data-t="1522">because of business incentive reasons. And I haven't really heard that many people say that, which is confusing to me, because to me it seems</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1529">25:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1529" data-t="1529">obvious.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1531">25:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1531" data-t="1531">But It also it also seems obvious that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1535" data-t="1535">something as important as Bitcoin would be used</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1538" data-t="1538">to inscribe everybody's daily horoscope in the blockchain every day. Like, that's what they're gonna do with it. Right? Eventually.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1545">25:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1545" data-t="1545">And it's, you know I I don't do a ton of inscribing myself because it's expensive. Right? And I think that's part of what I like about inscriptions is that they're,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1555" data-t="1555">they naturally are spam resistant because you have to pay money to put something on Bitcoin, just like I have to pay transaction fees to send you Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1562" data-t="1562">So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1563" data-t="1563">the only things that I've really personally inscribed myself is, like, I have a project where I inscribe</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1569" data-t="1569">astronomical data, so, like, the exact position of planets</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1573" data-t="1573">onto Satoshis</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1574">26:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1574" data-t="1574">from the exact time that they were mined in order to create a tether between decentralized Bitcoin block time and decentralized astronomical time, which is like the decentralized clock of the natural world.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1584" data-t="1584">I view this as, like, an important primary source document for future Bitcoin archaeologists that are, like, trying to understand our civilization. Right. I mean, I could go off on this forever, but, like No. TLDR, Bitcoin is the library of Alexandria that can't be burned. And we have in front of us, like, a situation where the winners can write history and always do. And the winners in this case are anyone who's inscribing things on Bitcoin. That doesn't mean that what they inscribe is true or good or valuable,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1612" data-t="1612">but Bitcoin is essentially the most robust decentralized</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1615" data-t="1615">data archive in existence,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1617" data-t="1617">And it spreads like a virus where every time that you mine Bitcoin, every time that you run a node, it replicates in its entirety, including all of its inscriptions. And so if you think about, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1627">27:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1627" data-t="1627">what is a permanent online document that will outlive</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1630" data-t="1630">me, you, maybe our kids, whatever,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1633" data-t="1633">It's probably going to be Bitcoin with all of those inscriptions on it, and that's probably going to be the way that if you imagine, like, thousands of years in the future, like, archaeologists, like, digging up a Bitcoin node, trying to understand our civilization, they'll be like, oh my god, I guess this little frog was their god. Like, they seem to really love this little frog. You know? No. So I don't understand</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1654">27:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1654" data-t="1654">why you wouldn't be excited by that if you're into Bitcoin. You know? That's what I that's what I mean. Like, that cost that you it's like everybody talks about. The reason that ordinals and inscriptions are important. Now this is, you know, one of the early arguments, but it's still one of the underlying arguments,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1668" data-t="1668">is that shit coins, like, now you can have an NFT on this chain or that chain with this bridge or that bridge, but the most valuable ones are gonna come back to Bitcoin. So and people are gonna know that the most valuable horoscopes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1680" data-t="1680">are gonna be inscriptions. It's not gonna be in the newspaper. It's not gonna be in the New York Times. That's for sure.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1685" data-t="1685">It's not gonna be on Ethereum. The most like, people are gonna tune in to the horoscope on Bitcoin because that's the most signal.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1693">28:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1693" data-t="1693">Yeah. And, I mean, you can literally time it to the like, I mean, imagine that you're a miner. Right? And you're mining, let's say, a block a day. Miners that wanna know their horoscopes too. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. You could literally do it with that moment. You could say at this moment that this time the time that this block was mined and these stats were created, this is what the stars were like. This is our inferences about them. Like, I mean, the fortunate thing about,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1715" data-t="1715">like, planetary positions is that once you have a couple positions, you can project out the orbits of planets for thousands of years. So you don't need that many tethers between,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1726" data-t="1726">planetary position and exact time in order to create an entire model of the solar system. Like, right now, we have the data on Bitcoin to create a model of the solar system that we can project out for hundreds of years. So I can do on chain astrology already. It's it's quite beautiful.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1742">29:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1742" data-t="1742">Well,</span> <span class="cue" data-t="1742">you know, talking about business incentives too with astrology and and why a lot of these these people because I kind of imagine the maximalists don't like astrology in general. I I feel like they'll be skeptics of it in the same way they are of ordinals.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1757">29:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1757" data-t="1757">I can just hear a predator right now. Yeah. Yeah. Pleader predators ring,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1763">29:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1763" data-t="1763">for sure. But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1764" data-t="1764">yeah, I mean, talking about business incentives, like, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1768" data-t="1768">not not to say that Corey is necessarily against astrology. We haven't seen that yet, but, like, one of the things that's very obvious</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1776" data-t="1776">that could be cults.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1778" data-t="1778">Yeah. He likes cults for sure. But one of the things that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1782" data-t="1782">is very obvious is if we have more Bitcoin astrologers</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1787">29:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1787" data-t="1787">out there,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1788" data-t="1788">we're gonna get more women in Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1790" data-t="1790">And if there's more women in Bitcoin,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1792" data-t="1792">it means the orange shells are gonna find girlfriends. And if the orange shells find girlfriends, they're not gonna be as horny for</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1799" data-t="1799">Michael Saylor and for,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1802" data-t="1802">it's gonna be bad for the MicroStrategy</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1804">30:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1804" data-t="1804">prices. Gonna really cut into their forty hours a week that they need to be clocking in at the Bitcoin podcast mines. You know what I mean? It's not good. A lot of a lot of people are gonna get girlfriends are stop listening to podcasts, and we're gonna lose a lot of really good simps.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1818" data-t="1818">Yep. Yeah. It's a shame. I mean, but honestly, ordinals events have much more I mean so I I'm kind of the the perfect. I'm the pod con,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1828" data-t="1828">connoisseur here in that, like, I'm a Bitcoin podcaster, and I host Bitcoin conferences. So I really am doing it all.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1834" data-t="1834">And the conferences I host are all ordinals conferences, and the gender ratio is way better. And part of that is because I I have this, like, esoteric astrological bend in all the things that I do, and so that's kind of the audience that I attract. But part of it is that because it's like it's art and culture. Like, art and culture is inherently more interesting to women</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1852">30:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1852" data-t="1852">than economics, and you telling me that Bitcoin's literally a battery. You know? Like, it's just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1858" data-t="1858">content wise, it's a totally different environment. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1861" data-t="1861">I don't know. Come to an ordinals conference. You might meet, a GF who at least understands Bitcoin,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1867" data-t="1867">like, 30%.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1868">31:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1868" data-t="1868">You know? What what's the gender ratio look like?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1871">31:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1871" data-t="1871">I would say it's probably, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1874" data-t="1874">thirty, seventy, maybe 35, 65.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1878" data-t="1878">Yeah. It's better. I mean, I've had</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1881" data-t="1881">I went to BitBlock Boom in</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1883" data-t="1883">twenty ninth no. 2021</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1886" data-t="1886">or 2022. I don't remember.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1888">31:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1888" data-t="1888">And I literally think there were three women there, including me. Like, in the one of the parties that I was there. I don't mean to say there's only three women at that entire event, but it was like, I walked into one of the after parties, and I was like, this is shocking. This is horrifying. And of course, everyone just thinks I'm there, because I'm Casey's wife. Right? Like, that's Well, a lot of a lot of them. By the way. I'm not Casey's wife. I'm just a an insane astrology girl that's obsessed with Bitcoin.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1910">31:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1910" data-t="1910">A lot of the women at at bit Bitbuck bloomed out. To be fair,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1915" data-t="1915">at late at parties, they are a little too old to be in sleep. They're back at the hotel.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1919" data-t="1919">That's true. That's true. That's why that's not a fear. I would say that's that's a just to set the context.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1925">32:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1925" data-t="1925">Yeah. Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1926" data-t="1926">As a conference organizer with with a little bit more reasonable gender ratio,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1931" data-t="1931">Like, how do you deal with the logistical issues of of the bathroom lines? Because I like, I know a lot of the women I talk to that go to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1939" data-t="1939">Bitbucket and the Bitcoin magazine conference. Like, one of the things that they're really happy about, like, they don't want the gender ratio</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1946" data-t="1946">to improve. One, because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1948" data-t="1948">their dating stock value is a lot higher when everybody's walking around with their Podkoff goggles on. But then they also feel like VP VIPs because they get to walk in the bathroom and they don't have to wait in line. Like, does that present any issues for the attendees having to wait in line for the bathroom when they wanna hear somebody talk on stage?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1967">32:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1967" data-t="1967">Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, crypto in general has a better gender ratio than Bitcoin does. Like, if you go to something like ETHDenver,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1975" data-t="1975">for example, it's almost maybe not fifty fifty, because there's a lot of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1979" data-t="1979">there's like like corporate</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1981" data-t="1981">crypto is probably still very, very, male dominated.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1985" data-t="1985">But, like, once you get into kinda like web three world, there's a lot of people that are thinking like, oh, we're gonna make NFTs for makeup. We're like, we're gonna make NFTs</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1993" data-t="1993">for luxury fashion items. And so there's kind of all these weird things that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1998">33:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1998" data-t="1998">draw contingencies of women in. And ordinals,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2001" data-t="2001">primarily the women in ordinals, are crypto women that are learning about Bitcoin for the first time. So for them, I think it's still quite an upgrade in terms of bathroom line experience.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2010" data-t="2010">I hope they don't go to a normal Bitcoin conference and then stop coming to my ordinals conferences because they realize how good they could have it. But, yeah, honestly, ordinals, I would say, was more of an onboarding</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2022" data-t="2022">crypto people to Bitcoin rather than, like, Bitcoin people getting into ordinals, which was a surprise</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2028" data-t="2028">for me when ordinals kinda took off.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2032">33:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2032" data-t="2032">Very interesting.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2036">33:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2036" data-t="2036">We had a we had a one of our buddies in Telegram. He wanted me to ask. He's an orange cell.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2043" data-t="2043">And he wanted me to ask, do you think that I have to focus on</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2048" data-t="2048">orange pilling a woman around age three or 31 when she's going through her Saturn return? Do you think, like, if I don't hit that window, like, she's expired? She's not gonna be orange filled? That's a really good question.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2063">34:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2063" data-t="2063">Yeah. So for those of you who aren't familiar, the Saturn return is a really important astrological cycle that happens in your late twenties to it's like age 27 to 30, depending on where Saturn is in your chart.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2075" data-t="2075">And that time, I sort of consider it to be like the actual beginning of of true adulthood, where it's like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2082" data-t="2082">if you've totally fucked around in your twenties and, like, not done work on yourself and not built anything for yourself, you hit 30 and you're like, fuck. What am I doing with my life? This is awful,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2092" data-t="2092">and it's a terrible experience.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2094" data-t="2094">Alternatively, if you've, like, been trying really hard and it seems like nothing is breaking through, whatever,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2099" data-t="2099">you reach your Saturn return, and Saturn is the ruler of karma, so you kind of become rewarded for the hard work that you've put in. So</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2106">35:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2106" data-t="2106">in terms of, like, I think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2109" data-t="2109">orange pilling, it's probably good to orange pill before or during the Saturn return,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2115" data-t="2115">because I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2116" data-t="2116">I don't know if if that that's like an idea that I think has to hit you relatively early that you can gravitate to. I also think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2126" data-t="2126">you know, it's like it's the Saturn return has a financial bend to it as well, where it's like, have you done financially well during your twenties? In which case, like, you get promoted, you have financial stability, you buy a house, whatever. Or have you just, like, squandered all your money, and you're, like, living with roommates in your thirties and whatever. So I feel like if if she's averse to being,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2145" data-t="2145">orange pilled at or before that time,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2148">35:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2148" data-t="2148">it's probably not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2150" data-t="2150">a great, like, money manifesting vibe. Like, you want a woman who, like, is able to, like, get into that money abundance mindset. You know what I mean? So Right. Do they have, like, do they have, like, apps or trackers so you can find out when, like, a woman is in her, like, astrological</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2166">36:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2166" data-t="2166">cycle that's, like, most fertile for orange pilling?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2170">36:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2170" data-t="2170">For orange pilling specifically.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2174" data-t="2174">Yeah. And this in this window. Yeah. In this window, you want a orange fill in this window. Right? I feel like it's a little bit more about her compatibility with Bitcoin. That's the way I would think about it. So Bitcoin has a natal chart because Bitcoin was</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2186" data-t="2186">the first Bitcoin block, the Genesis block. I consider that to be the birth of Bitcoin. The white paper was like the conception,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2192" data-t="2192">and then, you know, it it gestated for a couple months, and then it was born on 01/03/2009.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2199" data-t="2199">And the cool thing about Bitcoin astrology is that because you have that exact time of the first block being mined, you can do really exact astrology on Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2207" data-t="2207">You don't know its location of birth, so that confuses a couple things, but it's not super important.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2213">36:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2213" data-t="2213">And so because of that, you can look at, like, a woman's chart relative to Bitcoin, and you can see if they have synastry. So for example, Rod, you're an Aries. Bitcoin is an Aries moon. I find that a lot of times Aries are attracted to Bitcoin because Bitcoin has this, like, deep Aries sort of fighter vibe to it. And so, like, I think maybe what might be more productive is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2234" data-t="2234">if you break down Bitcoin's chart, which a a seasoned Bitcoin astrologer could do this for you. Also, you can get Bitcoin astrology reading, and you can see your compatibility or a woman that you're interested in her compatibility with Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2247" data-t="2247">You can identify like, oh, okay. You know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2249" data-t="2249">her Mercury is conjunct Bitcoin Saturn. So Bitcoin as a store of value is gonna be an idea that communicates to her.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2257" data-t="2257">Or, you know, Bitcoin in the Aries moon case, maybe she's an Aries sun, Bitcoin's an Aries moon. Bitcoin's fighter spirit is gonna is gonna speak to her because she also has that fiery spirit.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2269">37:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2269" data-t="2269">So what I would say is, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2271" data-t="2271">maybe, you know, get a Bitcoin astrologer to look an expert to look at at a chart for you, and then you can see what the n is. And also, if you tell a girl, hey. Can I get your, like, time and place of birth because I really want an astrologer to look at our synastry,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2288" data-t="2288">that's already, like, plus two or three points with her? So I think that alone is a really good move.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2295">38:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2295" data-t="2295">Definitely.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2297" data-t="2297">So I wanna talk about ordinals. So I don't really know anything about ordinals. I've never I've never touched an ordinal. At least, I don't know. Maybe somebody sent me a rare stat or something, and I have no idea.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2308" data-t="2308">But to me,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2309" data-t="2309">every all Bitcoin's fungible in the way that I use it. Just because out of ignorance, not not necessarily out of,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2316" data-t="2316">any preference or ideology. I just don't I don't know,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2321">38:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2321" data-t="2321">how that It's super simple, honestly. I think the problem that people have is that they mix up ordinals and inscriptions.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2332" data-t="2332">Bitcoin because all an ordinal is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2334" data-t="2334">is a unique identifying</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2337" data-t="2337">number for a Satoshi.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2338" data-t="2338">So Yeah. If you imagine the first was touching people's ordinals at the last Bitcoin conference. Well, you know, everyone's touching ordinals. I'm touching your ordinals. You're touching my ordinals. You know, we're all touching ordinals all the time. But, yeah, you may have never touched an inscription. That's possible. So, basically, all ordinals is is like serial numbers for Satoshis. So if you start at the first Bitcoin block, which mined 50 Bitcoin,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2361" data-t="2361">the first Satoshi</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2363">39:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2363" data-t="2363">is sat zero, ordinal number zero.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2366" data-t="2366">And then whatever, there's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2368" data-t="2368">however many 100,000,000</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2369" data-t="2369">Satoshis in a Bitcoin, so it's like 50 times a 100,000,000.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2373" data-t="2373">That ordinal number was the last one, or maybe it was minus one. So it's like four nine nine nine nine nine, whatever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2379" data-t="2379">Those are those ordinal numbers. Then you mine the next block, and you get 50 blah blah blah blah blah to nine nine nine nine nine ordinals. And you keep going all the way to twenty one forty when the last sat is mined, and then you basically just have an ordering scheme for Satoshis.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2393">39:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2393" data-t="2393">And the way that ordinal theory works is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2396" data-t="2396">because Bitcoin has this UTXO model where</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2399" data-t="2399">I can I have my UTXO, which has my stats in it? I send you maybe half of those stats, and so half</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2405" data-t="2405">approximately of those stats come back to me. There's, like, a little bit taken off from the miner. If I if I take the stats that I sent you and I trace them back all the way back to the block that they were first born in when they were mined, I can then find their ordinal number. And so essentially, it's just an algorithm for tracking every satoshi based on its, like, birth order, essentially.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2425" data-t="2425">That's why I say ordinals is, astrology for Bitcoin, because it's basically</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2429" data-t="2429">like caring about</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2430">40:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2430" data-t="2430">identifying the birth of satoshis and ascribing meaning to that, which is literally exactly what we do with astrology. We say, okay, these are the planetary positions at the time that you were born, and I'm gonna ascribe meaning to that. And when you when you talk about things like uncommon sats,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2444" data-t="2444">rare sats, whatever,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2446" data-t="2446">those are sats that are interesting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2449" data-t="2449">for arbitrary reasons. The arbitrary reasons are,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2452" data-t="2452">let's say it's the first sat in a block or it's the first sat after a difficulty adjustment. So that's uncommon and rare.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2460" data-t="2460">And so that's literally like getting into, like, time cycle, like, astrology stuff for for time cycles, natural time cycles in Bitcoin. So that's all ordinals is.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2469">41:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2469" data-t="2469">Ordinals then enables the tracking of inscriptions,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2472" data-t="2472">where if I take a transaction</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2475" data-t="2475">and I have the first side of that transaction, that's gonna be the one that's assigned to the inscription. I have a transaction, and in that transaction, I put in a monkey JPEG or I put in a Pepe image or whatever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2486" data-t="2486">And in that transaction, that transaction is now put on Bitcoin forever, and the first SAT in that transaction becomes the identifier,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2494" data-t="2494">the tracking piece for that inscription.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2496" data-t="2496">So then when I transfer that ordinal around,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2499">41:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2499" data-t="2499">everyone has the consensus. It is a social hallucination, by the way. Like, it's totally like social consensus. You have to believe in ordinal theory in order to be into inscriptions</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2510" data-t="2510">as tradable assets. But let's say that you believe in ordinals. You subscribe to the collective consensual hallucination,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2517" data-t="2517">and you basically then, after you've inscribed content on that first sat, you can then transfer that sat around, and that's how you trade the inscription. The inscription lives on Bitcoin. The inscription isn't moving around. You're just trading the tracker. So it's probable, if not, like yeah. It's probable that you haven't ever had inscriptions in your wallet, because I don't think a ton of them are floating around. Some of them get spent to fees or deposited into exchanges. Like, it does happen.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2543" data-t="2543">But in general, I would say we're still at a phase of ordinals where, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2547">42:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2547" data-t="2547">it's not entirely</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2548" data-t="2548">just, like, junk floating around. But I dream of a day where, you know, you are</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2554" data-t="2554">you're, like, doing some crazy high fee transaction between, like, the Bank of China and the Bank of the United States that's, like, insane high fee transaction, and you just see some, like, really explicit Pepes, like, spent in that transaction as a part of it. And then you can, like, read the tea leaves of, like, oh, what did it mean that this one had four Pepes? So You know? Very auspicious.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2576">42:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2576" data-t="2576">You talk</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2577" data-t="2577">about, like, leaving this</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2580" data-t="2580">footprint or this mark in the time changing culture.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2583" data-t="2583">But, like, I'm thinking about somebody far in the future that are looking back at the present time, and they're gonna look and they're gonna see the most important inscription,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2592" data-t="2592">you know, that was birthed,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2595" data-t="2595">or, you know, tracked back to this point was president Trump's meme coin. He's the president of The United States. He's the first orange pill president. He's got a big old picture of his his,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2606">43:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2606" data-t="2606">of his warranty here. And, like, that's the most important inscription about, like, how do you stand out from that when people look</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2612" data-t="2612">around that area</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2614" data-t="2614">and they start seeing somebody that's maybe telling the truth about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2618" data-t="2618">the that time and place.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2620" data-t="2620">Maybe not in conflict</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2622" data-t="2622">with whatever the biggest meme is, but, you know, just you can one of them is just gonna be noise and this one you can kinda count on to be the truth of what was going on. So I think, you know, what you're talking about is kind of like a it's sort of a deeply philosophical question about how we decide on truth in general. Like, that's why I said earlier</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2643">44:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2643" data-t="2643">that, you know, the the winners write history</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2645" data-t="2645">is, like, that's kind of the story of history. It's, like, we don't really know what happened. We know a narrative that dominated</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2653" data-t="2653">that that's sort of our canonical narrative. And I think, like, if you look at inscriptions that way and you think of yourself as, like, an inscription archeologist in the future,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2662" data-t="2662">like, there's gonna be some weird sort</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2665" data-t="2665">of archaeology</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2666" data-t="2666">PhD students that are trying to understand, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2670">44:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2670" data-t="2670">who was the real Trump. So, for example,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2673" data-t="2673">if you look,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2674" data-t="2674">at the first inscriptions,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2676" data-t="2676">inscription 30, which is, like, very, very early</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2679" data-t="2679">on, is an image of Casey ordinals dressed as Trump,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2683" data-t="2683">which is the first image of Trump inscribed on Bitcoin. So I'm kind of curious if they're gonna think that Trump created ordinals, or, like, Casey was Trump, you know? Because, like, if you're just basing it off of, like, the historical record,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2697">44:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2697" data-t="2697">that is the first image of Trump on Bitcoin. They're gonna blame they're gonna blame whatever Trump does on Casey. It's gonna be Casey's fault. Yeah. And he might deserve it, you know? So Right. It it could all be fair in the end.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2710">45:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2710" data-t="2710">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2712" data-t="2712">just a hypothetical.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2714" data-t="2714">So somebody gets into ordinals,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2716" data-t="2716">and they go to their Bitcoin meetup,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2719" data-t="2719">and they start talking about ordinals, and the meetup organizer tells them that they're gay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2725" data-t="2725">How do you suggest people deal with that that type of stigma towards them? That Right. There's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2730">45:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2730" data-t="2730">there's a lot of people that think you have to be liberal or you have to be a Democrat to be into ordinals. And that's you're saying it's not true.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2738">45:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2738" data-t="2738">No. Definitely not. I mean, crypto in general is, like, so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2742" data-t="2742">I mean, part of what I like about crypto is there's just, like, this Wild West feeling to it. I mean, Bitcoin is in in a lot of ways, Bitcoin is a lot more puritanical</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2751" data-t="2751">than the rest of crypto. And, by the way, I know I'm speaking fondly of crypto. I genuinely believe everything that's not Bitcoin is either a literal intentional or unintentional</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2760" data-t="2760">scam. Like, I am, by all accounts, a Bitcoin maxi.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2764" data-t="2764">But, like, I can at least observe things that the culture does right, that Bitcoin maximalism does wrong, which you guys probably do all the time because there's so much fucking wrong with Bitcoin max maxi culture.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2775" data-t="2775">But, like, in general,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2777">46:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2777" data-t="2777">like, ordinals people, I would say the vibe of ordinals people versus Bitcoin people is ordinals people are usually more,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2786" data-t="2786">techie nerds that are trying to have fun on the computer.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2790" data-t="2790">So, like, ordinals people know how Bitcoin works better than most Bitcoin maxis.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2795" data-t="2795">Ordinal transactions made up the majority of transactions on the Bitcoin network in 2024.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2800" data-t="2800">So if you look at, like, who's actually using Bitcoin,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2803" data-t="2803">who's experimenting with Bitcoin, who's learning the ways that Bitcoin,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2807">46:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2807" data-t="2807">needs to improve, for example,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2809" data-t="2809">it's it's Ordinals people. It's not Bitcoin Maxis that are DCA ing through Swan and, like, not ever doing anything with their Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2816" data-t="2816">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2817" data-t="2817">to me, it's like, yeah. Okay. If if you go to a Bitcoin maxi meet up and you say you're into ordinals, they're probably gonna shit talk you, but, like, they know so much less about Bitcoin than you do, probably. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2828" data-t="2828">I don't know. I feel like, honestly, Bitcoin maxis have a lot to learn from Ordinal's people, and I wish that they I wish that they were more curious about Bitcoin. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's interesting.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2839">47:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2839" data-t="2839">I think people come down to the realization</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2841" data-t="2841">here that the the two people who know Bitcoin the best are, like you said, the ordinals people and feds. And people have to make a decision. Do they wanna be an ordinals person or do they wanna be a fed? Because it seems like that's the choice you have to make. And a lot of people were not prepared</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2860" data-t="2860">to to make that choice. But I don't know. That's how I see it. You have to hit that fork in the road.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2865">47:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2865" data-t="2865">Yeah. It's very true, honestly. Like, you either have to be like a like a weird techie degen who's just, like, trying to, like, use Bitcoin as an interesting tech thing and not think too much about,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2876" data-t="2876">Bitcoin as money in a way, even though, of course, like, money is a major driver behind the ordinals ecosystem as well.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2883" data-t="2883">Or you have to be like, no. Bitcoin is an inert object. It's literally a battery,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2887" data-t="2887">and, we can use this to, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2889" data-t="2889">lock down warfare because we'll just fight on the blockchain instead of having drone bombs or whatever. Like, it's it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2897" data-t="2897">yeah. It's it's a little bit,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2899">48:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2899" data-t="2899">I mean, yeah, I would much rather be an ordinals person in that in that case. Right. And it it's like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2904">48:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2904" data-t="2904">at the end of the day,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2906" data-t="2906">both the fads and the ordinals people are ultimately</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2909" data-t="2909">finding creative ways and new and creative ways to do money laundering. So it's like you're gonna go have you're gonna have to launder money. You're either gonna have to launder money for the CIA, or you're gonna, you know, be able</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2920" data-t="2920">to make some memes. You know? You're gonna have to trade rare Pepes.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2923">48:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2923" data-t="2923">Which one is worse? The rarest, dankest Pepes, and you're gonna have to huddle those dank Pepes. You have to climb your way to the top. Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2930">48:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2930" data-t="2930">Yeah. Has has Jason has Jason Lowry ever talked about the software implications</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2936" data-t="2936">of,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2937" data-t="2937">meme warfare through using</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2939" data-t="2939">inscriptions</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2940" data-t="2940">on the blockchain? Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2942" data-t="2942">do we we've even seen the meme warfare ramp</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2945">49:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2945" data-t="2945">up between China and The US recently, but we could be looking at the like, you were talking about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2951" data-t="2951">China, US Bitcoin transactions.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2953" data-t="2953">We could be seeing things like The US could be sending in descriptions of Winnie the Pooh to China.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2960" data-t="2960">And could that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2962" data-t="2962">that type of,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2965" data-t="2965">psychological</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2966">49:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2966" data-t="2966">warfare,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2967" data-t="2967">so to say, actually increase</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2969" data-t="2969">trade tensions</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2970" data-t="2970">and and geopolit cause a geopolitical. Could Winnie the Pooh in in inscription</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2975" data-t="2975">really bring us to the brink?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2977">49:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2977" data-t="2977">Yeah. I've always thought that it would be an interesting inscription project to, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2981" data-t="2981">make politically inflammatory</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2984" data-t="2984">content in inscriptions and then send it to all the OFAC,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2987" data-t="2987">addresses. You know, like, there's, there's Bitcoin addresses that are associated with, like, Hamas. Right? Like, you could send them,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2994" data-t="2994">like, a free Palestine thing or, like, a pro Israel thing. I don't know. You know, whatever kind of trolling sentiment you wanna make. Shenobi. Shenobi is always sending stuff to to Hamas.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3003" data-t="3003">Right. Yeah. I'm I'm sure he is.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3005">50:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3005" data-t="3005">So, yeah, I feel like there's kind of a lot of potential because Bitcoin is this, like, pseudonymous network where you can kind of identify,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3014" data-t="3014">like, you can identify whales. You know? You can identify, like, certain activity that looks a certain way and kind of figure out, like, oh, it's this group, or it's happening in this time zone probably, so it's probably someone in this country. Like, I feel like there's kind of an interesting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3027" data-t="3027">way that if you were really like a like a mempool detective, you could start identifying, like, interesting addresses and, like, send them weird inscriptions to troll them. I mean a very basic way of doing this, like if you're concerned about, like, sending Bitcoin to OFAC addresses, and like getting yourself on a watch list, would be to, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3044" data-t="3044">deposit inflammatory inscriptions into Binance or something like that. Like in the case of of China.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3050" data-t="3050">Like, go to a Chinese exchange</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3052">50:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3052" data-t="3052">and deposit,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3054" data-t="3054">Winnie the Pooh inscriptions</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3056" data-t="3056">such that that's, like, now floating around in their, like, total Bitcoin. And so then maybe they accidentally, like, give that to someone as a withdrawal, and then, like, the CCP gets mad at them.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3066" data-t="3066">Right? So you kinda could set people up.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3068">51:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3068" data-t="3068">Or you could, like, also have somebody in the company who</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3071" data-t="3071">you there's, like, an inscription. It's, like, the the canary on a website. And if they, like, send that out from, like, the the company's wallet, like, you know, like, the company's been coughing once. They can send us a signal. So we talk about on here all the time and we bemo it that the revolution will not have good UX.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3091" data-t="3091">The user experience sucks when you're at the edge of the entropy, when you're at the edge of the frontier.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3097" data-t="3097">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3098" data-t="3098">it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3099" data-t="3099">almost like you're saying,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3101">51:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3101" data-t="3101">we, we know that this</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3103" data-t="3103">blockchain data should be very valuable, like with all this transaction data going on, but it's hard, it's hard to reason about it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3111" data-t="3111">But if we like using scripts, they can improve the user experience. They can teach you to like find patterns. It's only like astrology, like Bitcoin itself. It teaches you to find these patterns that if you can see it here, you can extrapolate it or you can notice it elsewhere and you can start to put things together.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3126" data-t="3126">You're increasing the user experience,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3129" data-t="3129">because obviously the the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3131" data-t="3131">the block data is not in high demand right now. So there's a lot of,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3136">52:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3136" data-t="3136">you know, cheap space to build on to for builders to make a user experience.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3141">52:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3141" data-t="3141">I Why do you I'm curious your statement about,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3144" data-t="3144">the revolution will not have good UX because this is, like, the bane of my existence.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3149" data-t="3149">Why do you think that is? Do you think that's do you have opinions on it? Do you think it's morally right or wrong, or you just sort of observing it to be a natural law? We're just we're sick and tired. We're Bitcoin podcasters, and we're sick and tired of</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3162">52:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3162" data-t="3162">all these companies</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3164" data-t="3164">and all you know, they have bad user experience. The podcast, apps, they don't listen to us. They don't they all listen to the users. It's buggy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3172" data-t="3172">You know, the lightning sucks. It doesn't work. You know, you you have to watch listen to forty hours of BTC sessions, tutorials, just to be able to run a lightning node.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3183" data-t="3183">And it's it's tough. It should be you should just be able to get an orange build</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3188" data-t="3188">and just not have to do any work, not to have to think. You should just be able to do everything</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3194" data-t="3194">instantly.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3195">53:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3195" data-t="3195">And Bitcoin should just work like that. And you should have to think about it. I totally agree. It's crazy to me. We did an episode of our podcast where we we reviewed Noster,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3203" data-t="3203">and we were just, like, looking at a couple. I think we used Domus or maybe Primal or maybe we use both.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3209" data-t="3209">But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3210" data-t="3210">I I think on one of them or maybe both of them, the search bar was fake. Like, you went to search something and the search bar wasn't actually searching. It was just like a cosmetic</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3219" data-t="3219">detail. And I was like, how the fuck are you gonna use something that's like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3224" data-t="3224">Twitter where you're you're</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3226">53:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3226" data-t="3226">you just started a new account. You're like, okay. I would really like to follow Michael say Sailor and Corey Clipston on Nostr. Right? And you can't even fucking look those people up because the search bar isn't real. Like, what the fuck? And we complained about it. And then,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3242" data-t="3242">who's the Nostr guy?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3245" data-t="3245">I can't remember. Jeff. Yes. Yeah. And then he complained about it on Nostr, and he was like, oh, these people from outside our ecosystem, they don't really care about us. They don't listen to the and I'm like, bro, I'm a fucking Maxie too. Like, I want your product to be better. Of course, they would say, it's not a product. It's an open source protocol. And it's like, okay. Great, guys. It's still gonna fucking fail if it has a bad user experience.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3265" data-t="3265">And then You Primal fixed the search bar. I disagree. Fixed it. I disagree. You disagree.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3270" data-t="3270">Yeah. No. I You love the you love the bad UX. Yeah. You're</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3274">54:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3274" data-t="3274">into it. It it's great for my marriage because my wife, she's the technical</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3278" data-t="3278">one. She's the one that's always teaching me how to use these products and doodads and whatever, and it's great. It's like it it's instead of going on dates, she she figures out how to troubleshoot shoot Noster for me. But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3290" data-t="3290">Right. I think the bad UX is important. I think it's important,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3295" data-t="3295">and this is where the term</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3297" data-t="3297">the revolution won't have good UX is because it filters out all the casuals.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3302" data-t="3302">And one of the great things about Nostr</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3304">55:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3304" data-t="3304">is the only people that are there are the hard most hardcore orange shells.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3309" data-t="3309">Those are the only people that are there because they're the only ones that are willing to do the proof of work to actually figure out how to use that app.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3316">55:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3316" data-t="3316">Right. And Yeah. And the It's very important stuff. You know, we should make sure that, like, no one ever fucking uses Bitcoin except us DCA ing at Swan.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3326">55:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3326" data-t="3326">Will there be no help? Also, the problem is that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3331" data-t="3331">to have a good user experience</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3333" data-t="3333">to build a good user experience, you have to know your users. You have to know your customers. And what's the one thing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3341" data-t="3341">that everybody, you know, is avoiding is KYC. But, like, if you want good user experience,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3347" data-t="3347">you have to give up. You have to make that trade off. You have to let them know about you. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3353" data-t="3353">if you you can see how quickly it can devolve, but,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3357">55:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3357" data-t="3357">also it's like if you wanna be sovereign or whatever, you gotta deal with bad UX. It's it's good for the economy. It's good for the Bitcoin economy because</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3366">56:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3366" data-t="3366">as a company, if you have a bad UX, you need a bunch of customer support</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3370" data-t="3370">people working for you. And so you're employing people to teach people how to use your product that has bad UX.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3376" data-t="3376">And you're creating jobs. You're creating jobs in a time where there's there's not as many jobs as there could be or should be. Right. And it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3386" data-t="3386">you're you're providing more value to society.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3389">56:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3389" data-t="3389">It's like a complicated</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3390" data-t="3390">tax code employees</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3392" data-t="3392">a lot of lawyers. And it's like lawyers are the backbone</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3395" data-t="3395">of the economy.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3396">56:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3396" data-t="3396">Indeed. I mean, I think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3399" data-t="3399">I think a lot of people who are devs in the Bitcoin space that are building Bitcoin products,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3405" data-t="3405">they all, in their own way, think that they're Satoshi. And so they think, build it and they will come. I don't need to make it anything that it isn't. If anything, you know, it just shows how much I'm, like, my Well, I'm calling to have the same way to do it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3418" data-t="3418">It's it's I think it's a really negative</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3421" data-t="3421">like, I I think okay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3423" data-t="3423">Obviously, I'm not averse to a spiritual narrative around Satoshi or Bitcoin. Satoshi is, like, the immaculate conception of Bitcoin. It's a beautiful story, and it's something that, like, really sets Bitcoin apart from every other cryptocurrency that's just like a a company with a CEO and, like, an undred unregistered security.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3440">57:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3440" data-t="3440">Right? So I think, like, having reverence for Satoshi and wanting to, like, live like Satoshi in some ways is a beautiful thing. But if you wanna make the biblical narrative, you're not Satoshi. You're like a like, who are the guys like John, Paul, whatever? The guys who actually, like, wrote the bible. Right? Like, you're like the disciples of Satoshi. You're not Satoshi himself. So you can be inspired by Satoshi,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3462" data-t="3462">but, like, Jesus didn't write the Bible. Right? Like, someone had to, like, translate those ideas for the masses. And I think, like, that should be your goal if you're trying to be, like, a disciple of Satoshi is, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3474" data-t="3474">figure out how Satoshi's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3475" data-t="3475">ideas or principles or Bitcoin's ideas and principles</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3479" data-t="3479">can be translated to a mass audience. But I I honestly think all these people, they just wanna be Jesus themselves. You know what I mean? Like, they don't want to think of themselves as lower. They wanna think of themselves</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3489">58:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3489" data-t="3489">in that tier of of developer, creator,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3492" data-t="3492">immaculate conception,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3494" data-t="3494">anon. Right?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3497">58:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3497" data-t="3497">Or Robert Breedlove. Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3499">58:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3499" data-t="3499">Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3500">58:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3500" data-t="3500">Well, I Robert I mean, one of my favorite sayings is we're we're all Peter Todd.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3505">58:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3505" data-t="3505">We can all be We are all Peter Todd. Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3510" data-t="3510">It's it's really beautiful. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, ordinals like, the interesting thing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3515" data-t="3515">that happened with ordinals when it popped off and still is happening now is, like, there's so much money in crypto. Right? Like, part of the problem that Bitcoin companies have is that, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3524" data-t="3524">if you're a VC,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3526" data-t="3526">what's the point in investing in a Bitcoin company when you could just buy Bitcoin? Like, it's very hard for a company to beat the rate of return on just, like, literally holding Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3536" data-t="3536">If you pump and dump a token, you can and you're an insider that has, like, first allocation,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3541">59:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3541" data-t="3541">you can beat the rate of return on Bitcoin. But if you're just like a Bitcoin company that's creating a service for Bitcoin,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3547" data-t="3547">I find that a lot of Bitcoin VCs, they basically do it because they love Bitcoin. You know? They're like, oh, I wanna invest in the Bitcoin economy because I think it's good for the world. Like, Jack Dorsey is a great example of this. They're not people that are, like, making a ton of money usually, and they're not doing it because they think they're gonna they're not doing it for the financial incentive, which is, like, by the way, what Bitcoin is supposed to be based on. That that is that is huge. One of the first things people do when they they fall in love with Bitcoin and then they make poor and, you know, poor financial decisions.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3576">59:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3576" data-t="3576">They whether it's the timing or just they don't know what they're doing. They're like, some people will just stay mooing about Bitcoin and they go out and they buy</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3584" data-t="3584">a a thousand bid access. And there is not ready to deal with a thousand bid access and it ends up just being a huge waste of money. Well that the same thing if you have a lot of money you just are like ten thirty one. Matt Odell and Marty, I don't think they ever ever invested in a profitable company but they keep doing it. And you just you just you you try to learn as you go.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3606">1:00:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3606" data-t="3606">But if you're a VC in Bitcoin and you've already sort of decided that you don't care about making a return on your investment because you're just trying to support the Bitcoin ecosystem,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3616" data-t="3616">then you don't care that it's a bad UX. You don't care about making the product better for onboarding users. It's really just about, like, showing up to a podcast,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3625" data-t="3625">episode or showing up to a conference and speaking on a stage and being like, I'm really supporting the Bitcoin builders. You know? I love the developers that are working on a very important freedom technology. You know what I mean? Like, it's it's more about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3639" data-t="3639">the way that it makes you feel than it is about making money, like, from the get go. And so there's just less pressure to build a product that actually succeeds.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3647" data-t="3647">Something that's cool about ordinals is, like, the people that are investing in in ordinals companies are crypto VCs, so they do care about making a profit. And, like, you can drop, like, a rune token or something, but, like, honestly, like, in Bitcoin world and ordinals world, it's not the same, like, pump and dump kind of, like, quick money environment that you get on Solana or Ethereum.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3665">1:01:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3665" data-t="3665">So ultimately, a lot of them are actually, like, trying to do things like, oh, help people in scribe and then take a fee on that. And so they, like, have to have a good user interface. Like, a lot of ordinals wallets</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3678" data-t="3678">are better user experiences than Bitcoin wallets, and they function as Bitcoin wallets. Like, you don't have to have them on ordinals mode. You know? The ordinals mode is, like, the hard mode for the the wallet itself. So, like, it's kind of interesting. Like, I think there's quite a bit use ordinals mode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I I think, like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3696" data-t="3696">I don't know. The ordinals innovation space is, like, very strangely, like, it has, like, a better financial incentive or it's more honest maybe about its financial incentive.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3705" data-t="3705">And so, like, I'm much more optimistic about ordinals</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3710" data-t="3710">builders kind of doing good Bitcoin work. Also, because as I said, they're the ones that are actually, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3715">1:01:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3715" data-t="3715">really thinking about Bitcoin transactions and, like, really getting in there and doing a lot of stuff with Bitcoin. They're not just kind of trying to create a DCA product. Yeah. Getting feedback about their transactions, getting feedback about the way they use Bitcoin. Because every way every use usage or use case for Bitcoin,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3734">1:02:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3734" data-t="3734">is gonna be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3735" data-t="3735">somewhere ranked in market efficiency every single time. It's like a vector. And the more feedback you get, the more,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3743" data-t="3743">it's almost you can start vibe coding on Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3745" data-t="3745">And that's because there are a lot of people, but</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3748">1:02:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3748" data-t="3748">it's a beautiful</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3750" data-t="3750">thing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3753" data-t="3753">Yeah. I have honestly a lot of thoughts on,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3756" data-t="3756">social media also because I I came from the the Tik Tok world, like, in terms of content creation originally. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3762" data-t="3762">I'm like a Tik Tok Maxi. I really</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3764" data-t="3764">feel like</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3765">1:02:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3765" data-t="3765">the most important thing that a social media needs to be is, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3769" data-t="3769">attention grabbing and making a user want to use it. Like, users don't actually care about being sovereign. They don't care about privacy. They don't care about their data at all. They only care about being amused and consuming.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3781" data-t="3781">And so, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3783" data-t="3783">I really think, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3785" data-t="3785">the Chinese have figured it out. And, like, if we ban TikTok or try to fight against that, like, we're really just fighting against excellence at the end of the day. And, like, we need to just do better. Like, Nasser needs to do better. Twitter needs to do better. Instagram, everything needs to do better. Otherwise, like, the Chinese know how to create a docile population, and they're gonna beat us.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3804">1:03:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3804" data-t="3804">I mean, TikTok</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3805" data-t="3805">last summer, TikTok picked</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3807" data-t="3807">a random,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3809" data-t="3809">somewhat attractive,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3811" data-t="3811">average Tennessee hillbilly rural girl, and made her the most famous meme</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3816" data-t="3816">in the world as big, maybe bigger than Donald Trump, at least in that moment,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3821">1:03:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3821" data-t="3821">in, like, seventy two hours.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3824" data-t="3824">That's probably</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3825" data-t="3825">a pretty good way</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3827" data-t="3827">to orange pill people. If you could get their attention on, you know, with the TikTok that important. And then everybody tried everybody.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3834" data-t="3834">Everybody tried to attach their logo to her. Yeah. Like</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3838">1:03:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3838" data-t="3838">it's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3839">1:03:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3839" data-t="3839">it's everybody trying to combine their ordinals with her.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3841">1:04:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3841" data-t="3841">Yeah. Exactly. Everyone was trying to get her to endorse their collection, you know? Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3846" data-t="3846">Yeah. It's it's it's interesting because it's like she almost was there in a way. I mean, obviously, it's like, okay, a hawk to a token.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3853" data-t="3853">There's many skips and jump between that and and being like a Bitcoin maxi. But it's like, she's engaging with crypto. Right? Like, that's something that's, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3861" data-t="3861">unheard of for TikTok influencers, generally speaking. So it's like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3865" data-t="3865">we're almost kind of there, but it's just like the pieces are not coming together. There's too many sociopaths in the way. Like, it's just not fully clicking.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3874">1:04:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3874" data-t="3874">It's like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3875" data-t="3875">What do you think about Donald Trump? Because it seems like he is just drowning out</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3880" data-t="3880">Whether you like him or not, there's just, like, nothing that kind of is a bigger headband than what Donald Trump's doing or saying today.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3888" data-t="3888">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3890" data-t="3890">sometimes it's funny,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3891" data-t="3891">but, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of important Bitcoin companies and podcasts that would like to get engagement</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3898">1:04:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3898" data-t="3898">and be able to advertise. We could have hyper Bitcoinization</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3901" data-t="3901">faster</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3902" data-t="3902">if we have more Bitcoin podcasts, and Donald Trump wasn't consuming all the headlines.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3907">1:05:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3907" data-t="3907">Yeah. I mean, Trump is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3909" data-t="3909">Trump is the biggest meme on the planet. Right? So when Trump launched his token,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3914" data-t="3914">which he did at the fucking crypto inaugural ball that I was at in DC,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3918" data-t="3918">which was insane,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3921" data-t="3921">He basically, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3923" data-t="3923">in my opinion, ended the meme coin bull run with that. He's the biggest meme. There's nothing bigger than that. And he rug the token in less than forty eight hours by launching a Melania token immediately and thinking that somehow there was an additional ruined it. Yeah. His wife ruined it. Typical. Right? Like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3938">1:05:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3938" data-t="3938">somehow they thought that there was an additional</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3941" data-t="3941">$15,000,000,000</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3942" data-t="3942">of liquidity to suck out of the market and that that wasn't just gonna go directly from Trump token to Melania token.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3948" data-t="3948">But in any case, like, I do think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3951" data-t="3951">that essentially what happened over the last, like, eight months is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3954" data-t="3954">Trump kind of hijacked the bull run, the crypto bull run, the Bitcoin bull run, whatever, as his own narrative, and then he kind of destroyed it in his own way.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3964">1:06:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3964" data-t="3964">I mean, of course, you're seeing right now now I'm gonna sound like a real Bitcoin podcaster, but you are seeing right now a decoupling from Bitcoin and the the market right now. So I do think there's an interesting aspect of, like, Trump can do whatever he wants. Bitcoin doesn't care about you or whatever. You know? I think there is an opportunity for Bitcoin to break out on its own.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3982" data-t="3982">But if you look at the narrative, the attention, the headlines,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3986" data-t="3986">I really think Trump just does such a great job of capturing anything and everything,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3991" data-t="3991">under his umbrella, and, like, using it to build his own brand. And I feel like that's what he did with Bitcoin and crypto, and then there were just enough</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3999" data-t="3999">crypto freaks that got in his ear and were, like, oh, you should launch a token. You should do this. He launched an ordinals collection actually with magic Eden. He like launched an instruction collection. So Right. You know, he's doing it all.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4011">1:06:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4011" data-t="4011">He's having fun on chain.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4013">1:06:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4013" data-t="4013">Just like in 2021,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4015" data-t="4015">everybody</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4017" data-t="4017">gave Elon Musk credit for the God candle. And then, like, two or three months later, he rug pulled us and he was started spreading frickin' climate ESGIFA.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4027" data-t="4027">And then Donald Trump does a say to him. We gave Donald Trump credit for the God candle way too early, and then he rug pulled us by being a meme corner. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4036" data-t="4036">the we gotta stop</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4039" data-t="4039">we gotta stop give like, making people giving people credit</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4043">1:07:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4043" data-t="4043">for the the narrative. Stop giving one person, especially</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4047" data-t="4047">Donald Trump. Like, we didn't know Elon was as retarded as he is in 2021.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4051" data-t="4051">He we we thought he was, like, way more like the rocket,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4054" data-t="4054">you know, scientist all the time. You did.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4058" data-t="4058">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4059" data-t="4059">I had</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4061">1:07:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4061" data-t="4061">by a you know, there was no excuse with Trump. We knew how retarded Trump was. Even if you were even if you voted for him, you're like, I don't necessarily trust him not to fuck up the bull market. Well There's but, you know Sorry. Go go on, Richard. There there's only one</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4075">1:07:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4075" data-t="4075">politician who has any integrity in this world,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4078" data-t="4078">and I'm throwing my hat in the ring right now. I wanna be his campaign manager for his presidential run-in 2028,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4086" data-t="4086">and that is Dennis Porter. There's only one politician we could put our faith in, and it's Dennis.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4092">1:08:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4092" data-t="4092">Yeah. I agree with that. I mean, I I live in California, and I've seen, Gavin Newsom. Seems like he's starting to do his thang and gear up to a 2028 run. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4101" data-t="4101">I would love to see California secede and and go, like, full states rights mode and just become, like, a sovereign nation, fifth largest economy in the world.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4110" data-t="4110">Just, like, complete woke nightmare. But, it would be fun. So I don't know. I mean, Trump, like, I do have a certain</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4118" data-t="4118">so he's a he's a Gemini also, actually. And Geminis in general,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4123" data-t="4123">the archetype of Geminis is that they are</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4126" data-t="4126">they're messengers</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4127">1:08:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4127" data-t="4127">that can go between the overworld and the underworld. So that's where the phrase, like, don't shoot the messenger comes from. It's like Hermes, which is like the Gemini figure in Greek mythology,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4137" data-t="4137">can go and deliver messages from, like, Hades in the underworld up to, like, Zeus in the overworld. And, like, some of those messages are gonna be things that you don't wanna hear. But, like, the Gemini is just the the the vessel for, like, delivering the information.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4152" data-t="4152">Kanye's a Gemini. Trump's a Gemini.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4155" data-t="4155">Actually, Xi Jinping is also a Gemini.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4158" data-t="4158">Muammar Gaddafi is a Gemini. There's sort of, like, these kind of famous iconic Geminis that are just, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4164" data-t="4164">they're just saying shit in a way, but it sort of, like, taps into a deeper narrative that people don't know how to articulate themselves. So I think with Trump, it's like I kind of love him for that. It's like I love that he's, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4176">1:09:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4176" data-t="4176">kind of the greatest poet of our time in a lot of ways, and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4180" data-t="4180">I don't I say many such cases every single day. I literally say that every single day and have for, like, over five years. Like, there's no one that's that's, like, gotten into our heads as much as Trump has, and in that way, he sort of deserves to be the mascot of of America, you know? Like, that's he's kind of earned it, you know? So He's the best memer.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4201" data-t="4201">He's the best mimer. He's the best mimer. And it's, like, what we deserve. You know? How do people get over</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4206">1:10:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4206" data-t="4206">Trump derangement syndrome? You got people with, like, long COVID, whether that's a literal or, you know, metaphorical</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4213" data-t="4213">condition.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4214" data-t="4214">And you got people with Trump derangement syndrome.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4216" data-t="4216">How do those people get over</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4219" data-t="4219">some people? Why do people have both? How do they start to deal with that?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4224">1:10:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4224" data-t="4224">So I think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4226" data-t="4226">first of all, not all of them will. And I think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4229" data-t="4229">you know, I I'll actually I'll give some, like, astrological context. So 2025 is a super transformative year.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4235" data-t="4235">If you ask UFO people, they actually also point to this year separately, not for astrological reasons, but more for, like, schizophrenic alien contact reasons.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4244" data-t="4244">But,</span> <span class="cue" data-t="4244">2025 is supposed to be this year where</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4247">1:10:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4247" data-t="4247">the transformation is happening so fast that it either feels like heaven or like hell, depending on how</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4254" data-t="4254">how much of an accelerationist</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4256" data-t="4256">you are, basically.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4258" data-t="4258">And I think part of that transition is, like, for people that are gripping to an old way of, like, you know, we used to have Barack Obama, and he made us look so good in front of the European Union, and he got the Nobel Peace Prize. Like, if you're still clinging to that version of reality, that version of reality is dead and gone. Okay? And it's just gonna become more painful to cling to that. So I think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4280" data-t="4280">ultimately,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4281" data-t="4281">like, there's an aspect of, like, embracing</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4283">1:11:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4283" data-t="4283">transformation and accelerationism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4285" data-t="4285">during transformative times</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4287" data-t="4287">that I think a lot of people are just averse to doing, and it it kinda makes sense. People don't like change. A lot of people don't like change. But, ultimately, I think that's the thing is, like, it's not even that people that love Trump love Trump. They love that he's, like, doing things and changing things and, like, that there's drama and chaos, and it feels</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4305" data-t="4305">right with their idea of how the world is headed. Like, it make it's cathartic in a way. Alright. They're triggering lives. Even if that's it, it's triggering lives. Yeah. And it's like collapsing institutions. You know? Like, it's like destroying things that people feel aren't working anymore. And I'm not gonna say that's a good thing, but it feels like it's a correct thing at this time. And I would say astrologically,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4325" data-t="4325">I that's what I would say as well. So I feel like It's justice.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4329">1:12:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4329" data-t="4329">Or It's yeah. It's it's just it's like the natural order or, like, the natural progress it feels.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4335" data-t="4335">You know, the Internet has changed everything, and so, of course, like, our society is gonna go through a painful, difficult transformation with that. So for me, I think whether it's, like, Trump derangement syndrome or, like, whatever,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4347" data-t="4347">a lot of it has to do with just, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4350" data-t="4350">being willing to ride the wave.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4352" data-t="4352">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4354" data-t="4354">also, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4356">1:12:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4356" data-t="4356">for me, I feel like it's it's not having the hubris to think that I know what's gonna happen. Like, a lot of people have this idea of, like, oh, Trump's gonna do x, y, and z, or climate change is gonna do x, y, and z, and it's gonna be awful. And the reality is, like, none of us know what's gonna happen. Like, literally none of us know. And so, like, in a way, being nihilist in that in in that sort of, like, concrete form is like a sense of hubris and, like, believing that you know things that you don't really know. So I don't know. I feel like it's a little bit of like surrender in a way of just like, bro, this is crazy times. We're at the beginning. We're at the dawning of the fucking age of Aquarius. Like, of course, it's gonna feel crazy. You know? So just ride the wave. Last time this happened, we had biblical floods. You know what I mean? So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4399" data-t="4399">it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4400" data-t="4400">it's transformative times. You just kinda gotta go with it, I think.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4404">1:13:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4404" data-t="4404">Totally. But not everyone's gonna make it. I know that's, it's like a weird thing to say, but it's like not everyone is is meant to, like, get into that mindset. Like, some people are just gonna be like And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4415" data-t="4415">and GMI. Not gonna make it. Very unfortunate, but it's it's, you know, not everyone becomes sovereign individuals.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4422" data-t="4422">You know, that's like the thesis of that book. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4425" data-t="4425">I don't know. It's the trade off. I've got a prediction,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4429">1:13:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4429" data-t="4429">and I'm curious. It's based on astrology. I'm curious on your your take on this. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4435" data-t="4435">we're having a big</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4436" data-t="4436">shift happening. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4438" data-t="4438">in May, at the end of May, right before the conference. So Saturn's gonna enter Aries on, May 24,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4446" data-t="4446">which</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4448" data-t="4448">essentially signifies people</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4451">1:14:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4451" data-t="4451">moving more towards</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4453" data-t="4453">self sovereignty,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4455" data-t="4455">taking life into their own hands. And so what I predict is gonna happen is this we're really gonna see a Bitcoin pump. And the reason why</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4463" data-t="4463">is, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4464" data-t="4464">we we know that taking response what what actually taking responsibility</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4469" data-t="4469">into your own hands of becoming a sovereign individual. One of the first steps</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4473">1:14:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4473" data-t="4473">in getting there is starting your own Bitcoin podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4477" data-t="4477">And I'm not sure if you're familiar with Bitcoin podcast,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4481" data-t="4481">power law,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4483">1:14:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4483" data-t="4483">but it is I'm not. Please. I would love to hear about it. Well, this is my my credentialed,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4488">1:14:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4488" data-t="4488">price model that I came up, which is essentially the price of Bitcoin goes up with the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4494" data-t="4494">with more</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4495" data-t="4495">as there's more Bitcoin podcasts out there,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4499" data-t="4499">the price goes up more because more people hear about it.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4503">1:15:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4503" data-t="4503">Right. We are the future. Yeah. We're driving Bitcoin adoption.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4507">1:15:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4507" data-t="4507">So I think what we're gonna start seeing on May 24 going into the conference</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4512" data-t="4512">is people are gonna really start considering</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4514" data-t="4514">starting Bitcoin conference or podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4517" data-t="4517">That that's what Saturn</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4518" data-t="4518">Saturn entering Aries means.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4522">1:15:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4522" data-t="4522">What are your thoughts on all of that? I think that's beautiful. I mean, I would say so Saturn requires hard work. I mean, you guys know very well how hard it is to be Bitcoin podcasters, and I think a lot of people underestimate the work that it takes. So I think you're absolutely right. There's this,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4537" data-t="4537">this structural</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4539" data-t="4539">push towards</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4540" data-t="4540">sovereignty</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4541" data-t="4541">and and maybe individual expression would be another form that that could take. And so to me, it makes sense that people would start getting, you know, if they're really passionate about Bitcoin, they'd be like, how can I help the revolution? Like, let me get on and and have a podcast with my friend.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4555" data-t="4555">But the the warning there is, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4557">1:15:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4557" data-t="4557">it's gonna take a lot of work. You know, you have to, like, every week or every other week or whatever, you gotta sit down. You gotta record. You gotta edit the episode. You gotta promote the episode. Like, it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4566" data-t="4566">try being an influencer for a day. You know what I mean? It's it's not all it's cracked up to be. So I think you're right, but I think Saturn's not gonna take it easy on on these new Bitcoin podcasters that come in to compete with us, the old guard, you know, of Bitcoin podcasting.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4581" data-t="4581">Yeah. They're gonna get it now. Right. Like, I'm I'm, I'm beautifully shocked by your Saturn and Aries,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4588" data-t="4588">insight because it really is, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4590" data-t="4590">as of, like, May or sorry, as of April 21,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4593" data-t="4593">which we're recording this on the twenty third. I don't know when this is posted. But as of April 21, we're, like, really out of the the really difficult time that was March and April.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4603">1:16:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4603" data-t="4603">I have been looking to q one twenty twenty five astrology since 2022.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4608" data-t="4608">Like, in 2022, I looked at the astrology of q one twenty twenty five, and I was like, oh, this is gonna be bad. Like, Like, this is not gonna be good. There's gonna be some fucking chaos going on. And it actually</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4617" data-t="4617">targets Trump's chart very directly. So I remember in 2022,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4621" data-t="4621">if you if you remember, like, there was a period during the Biden presidency where Trump was, like, totally deplatformed, and, like, it didn't seem possible for him to come back.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4629" data-t="4629">And I remember I looked at his astrology of 2025. Trump was born on an eclipse, by the way. So he was born on eclipse. There's an eclipse that happened in March 2025 that, like, exactly</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4639" data-t="4639">squared his natal eclipse, so it created this big x over his chart.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4643">1:17:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4643" data-t="4643">And I literally looked at that, and I was like, oh, he obviously has to be president 2025. There's no fucking way that he's not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4649" data-t="4649">really, like, major major figure. And so I kinda started being like, yeah, I know it seems like he's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4655" data-t="4655">out right now. Like, he's totally deplatformed. He's just, like, chilling on truth social, but, like, I think he's gonna come back. And, basically, like, the astrology of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4665" data-t="4665">particularly March, but, like, into early April is essentially, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4669" data-t="4669">that era of time is what Trump will be known for as a president. So we don't exactly know how things like tariffs or whatever or, honestly, like, how many fucking executive orders did he sign that, like, we don't even know what's in them? He literally just sat at a desk and did stand up for, like, two weeks straight, just like signing documents. So I think there's a lot of fallout that's gonna come from this time that we don't even really know, like, what it's gonna be. But May is super positive astrologically, like, we're kind of on the upswing. July is, like, one of the nicest months that we've had a long time. And then 2026,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4702">1:18:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4702" data-t="4702">I think, will be the best astrological</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4704" data-t="4704">year since I've been in a a practicing astrologer, which is, like, eight or nine years now. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4709" data-t="4709">I think, like, we're not headed towards, like, doom and gloom. I think we're headed towards</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4714" data-t="4714">some sort of,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4715" data-t="4715">major transformative times that for those of us that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4718" data-t="4718">are, like, terminally online</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4721">1:18:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4721" data-t="4721">and looking a little bit for the old institutions to fall, that will feel actually quite cathartic and in line with what we think will happen if we believe in, like, a hyper Bitcoinization narrative or whatever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4732" data-t="4732">That doesn't mean it's gonna be,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4734" data-t="4734">like, easy. Doesn't mean it's gonna be, like, smooth sailing for everyone. But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4741" data-t="4741">I don't know. If you're a Bitcoiner, I do think part of you probably recognizes that collapse is part of that. So Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4747">1:19:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4747" data-t="4747">You know? This is why this is why Marty Bent says that this time is different. Marty Bent has been</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4754" data-t="4754">getting into astrology,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4756" data-t="4756">he's been listening to Halmani, and he's been reading his horoscope.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4759" data-t="4759">And this is this is why Marty knows this time is different. And it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4763" data-t="4763">it feels</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4765" data-t="4765">I</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4766">1:19:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4766" data-t="4766">I mean, we both have been talking about this. What you were talking about, like, somewhere at in the depths of Donald Trump's problems in 2022,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4776" data-t="4776">we were like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4777" data-t="4777">whatever</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4778" data-t="4778">is gonna happen is he's gonna win. Like, they're gonna have a primary. He's gonna fucking steamroll a bit. Like, I don't know. I didn't have no tie to astrology here.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4787" data-t="4787">But I just the you it was just like, if you're on the right vibe, you could feel that, I don't know, energy. And it just kinda kept being right. And that's why we started saying, like, Bitcoin has already won.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4797" data-t="4797">Donald Trump has already won. Like, we were we were saying this last summer. It's like, this is how it's going. You can if you just pay attention, you can</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4804">1:20:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4804" data-t="4804">you you ride that wave.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4806" data-t="4806">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4807" data-t="4807">astrology apparently matches up with that too. I thought it was the fourth turning. I just read the fourth turning, so I was just reading kinda like a nerdy history</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4816" data-t="4816">buffs, like astrology.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4818">1:20:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4818" data-t="4818">And that's how how I connected to it. Astrology for boys. Yeah. No. I mean, that's beautifully said because I think ultimately,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4825" data-t="4825">you know, astrology is my preferred tool. I also do tarot, but I would say I'm like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4830" data-t="4830">tarot is is like a nice practice for me, but I'm more of like an astrology, like, scholar or researcher.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4836" data-t="4836">But for me, it's just like that's a form of honing my intuition that speaks to me because I probably because I came from planetary science before. So I was, like, already sort of used to thinking about, like, the cosmos and our place in the universe and whatever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4850" data-t="4850">But I don't think that, like, astrology is the only way of getting to these realizations.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4855" data-t="4855">I think honestly, like, you have everything that you need inside of yourself, and if you trust your gut and you trust your intuition, you know a lot of these things already.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4862">1:21:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4862" data-t="4862">Actually, like, interesting,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4865" data-t="4865">like, use case for crypto that's actually played out. I feel like Polymarket is, like, a good example of this, where Polymarket</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4871" data-t="4871">accurately predicts things so much more than polls. Right? And with Polymarket, it's just a bunch of people betting on their gut. Like, if you look at the the poll for will Donald Trump or Kamala Harris win the election,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4883" data-t="4883">it basically tracks exactly how I felt. Where, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4887" data-t="4887">Trump was, like, probably gonna win, probably gonna win. Like, Biden was kind of there, and it's, like, Biden shot down when he dropped out or whatever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4893" data-t="4893">And then Trump got shot, and then it was like, shoot up. And then there were a couple weeks in September where it felt like maybe Kamala would win. It felt a little bit like, oh, maybe no one cares about that, but then he, like, came back. I remember all these cycles. Exactly. Yeah. Like, I felt that way at that time, and I think a lot of people felt that way. And so, like, it's kinda cool. Like, I mean, actually, PolyMarkets is like an absolute clusterfuck behind the scenes, and it, like, doesn't work at all from, like, a technical crypto standpoint, which is the story of every fucking crypto.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4921">1:22:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4921" data-t="4921">But, like, as a tool for, like, understanding what's gonna happen in the world, it's essentially an aggregate of, like, everyone's gut feeling that they're willing to put money on. And, like, it's yeah. I don't think you need astrology</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4933" data-t="4933">or,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4935" data-t="4935">religion or fucking like reading tea leaves or whatever to get these insights. I I think you have them inside of you, and it's just a matter of like being a noticer, you know? Right. I'm noticing. We talk about that all the time and noticing. And,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4949">1:22:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4949" data-t="4949">the last thing on the the Trump thing is just, like, you're talking about Polymarket. You're talking about how that feeling. And then you kinda get up to the election, and everybody like, the age of conspiracies,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4959" data-t="4959">everybody's thinking, maybe 2020 was stolen. Maybe they are scanning like are they gonna try to stop it like they've tried to if whatever day means but quote unquote day they tried to kill him twice so like what the you know are they gonna stop the ballot boxes surveys thinking about that and the election day was like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4977" data-t="4977">a cathartic moment whether you liked him or not. Like, I knew people who were liking</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4981" data-t="4981">do not like Trump, but the cathartic moment of just he won.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4985">1:23:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4985" data-t="4985">It played out like it felt like it should have played out. It wasn't Yeah. Everything else is gonna sigh up, and this one didn't end up like a sigh up. That's how I felt at the time. I mean, I I actually don't even know if I've ever said this publicly and, like, whatever if I if it's clipped. But, like, I voted for Trump because I'm a fucking California voter, so my vote doesn't fucking matter. But I literally voted for him because I just I wanted to bet that I would be right. You know what I mean? Like, I felt like I'm recognizing and acknowledging that this moment is happening,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5015" data-t="5015">and to deny myself that truth feels like denying</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5019" data-t="5019">like a an essential truth in a way. Like, I'm not I mean, I was never gonna vote for fucking Kamala Harris. It was like either not vote or like vote third party for whatever. You know what I mean? Like, I just felt like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5030" data-t="5030">for my own sanity, I needed to just be like, no. Like, this is what's happening. And then, yeah, you're totally right. It just played out, and I think</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5038">1:23:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5038" data-t="5038">Bitcoiners in general are getting a lot of that catharsis right now. The the main difference with Bitcoiners that I think is causing a little bit of existential strife in the Maxi community</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5047" data-t="5047">is,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5049" data-t="5049">we all thought that there was gonna be this and then they fight you phase that seems like it's not happening now.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5055" data-t="5055">I kind of get that now. Like, if you look at it from, like, an incentives perspective, it's like, yeah, everyone is incentivized</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5061" data-t="5061">to participate in number go up technology.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5064" data-t="5064">Right? Like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5065">1:24:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5065" data-t="5065">politicians in The United States are not actually interested in the success of The United States. They're interested in their own personal net worth.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5072" data-t="5072">I think, like, the age of the neo cons is kind of behind us. That doesn't mean that none of them are, like, conniving or, like, working in intelligence, like, agencies that have all their own, like, motives. But in general,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5083" data-t="5083">politicians are bought, you know? And so when a politician starts accepting Bitcoin donations and they start getting Bitcoin, all of a sudden they're invested and number go up. Right? So it's like it's essentially like you're cutting out the middleman of the lobbyist that shows up to the politician's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5101" data-t="5101">office and says, hey, you should</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5103" data-t="5103">favor x pharmaceutical</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5105" data-t="5105">company, because we're gonna donate a lot of money to your campaign. Like, all you have to do to get a politician to care about Bitcoin is, like, send them Bitcoin, and all of a sudden they care about Bitcoin. And they probably care about Bitcoin more than they care about The United States, because they don't really give a fuck about The United States in the first place. So</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5120">1:25:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5120" data-t="5120">I feel like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5122" data-t="5122">looking back on it, it makes sense to me that the incentive structure of Bitcoin is just so fucking strong that, of course, the institution, nation states, politicians, like, whatever are gonna adopt it. I feel like the fear now is, like, is Bitcoin effectively a Trojan horse for their own demise,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5138" data-t="5138">or does it somehow get co opted in a way that that makes it less than the original vision that maybe, like, Bitcoiners had for it? I don't know. Well, this this is why it's so important to listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast a week, because I think that's more</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5152">1:25:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5152" data-t="5152">that's more of an individual choice than it is a collective choice of, like, it's an all or nothing because it's kind of up to you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5158" data-t="5158">on whether you become a, you know, a cock or not at the end of the day or whether you,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5165" data-t="5165">actually</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5167" data-t="5167">strive to be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5168" data-t="5168">sovereign or or improve your life or you know, like, I think this is one of the the problems is everybody's so focused on everybody else. Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5177" data-t="5177">you know,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5178">1:26:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5178" data-t="5178">they're so focused on getting permission for the things that they're doing. Like, you you should just smoke cigarettes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5184" data-t="5184">whether people want you to or not. You should make that decision for yourself at the end of the day.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5189" data-t="5189">And in the same way, you should use Bitcoin in the same way. And, I don't really think it's an all or nothing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5196" data-t="5196">Like, you know, that's one of the great things about it. It is, like, you know, on a weekly, daily almost daily basis, like, I go</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5203" data-t="5203">and I go to my cigarette dealer and, you know, we do non KYC cigarette transactions,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5209" data-t="5209">even though, you know, the government wants me to report capital gains on it and,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5215">1:26:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5215" data-t="5215">you know, buy from a KYC platform. I just reject the the premise of all of that.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5220">1:26:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5220" data-t="5220">Then sometimes it's just a little win. Sometimes it's just buying a non KYC cigarette and smoke. It's just that little act of defiance</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5228">1:27:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5228" data-t="5228">that keeps you going just like MGU. All all of ordinals, like every ordinals marketplace is like a non custodial decentralized marketplace. So there is kind of a weird, JPEG circular economy that has formed in ordinals, which is beautiful. I mean, it's cool, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5244" data-t="5244">you know, I I have a company and do some stuff in ordinals. Not like a ton. I kinda just do what's, like, interesting and fun to me, podcasting and conferences among a couple other things. And I pay everyone in Bitcoin. I pay my podcast editor in Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5257" data-t="5257">I get paid in Bitcoin. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5259" data-t="5259">it is interesting, like, when you start</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5262" data-t="5262">living on a Bitcoin standard in your own way, like, the world starts forming around you. I have the benefit that I live in the Bay Area, so there's already a little bit of, like, a techie vibe here. People are more kind of aligned with that. I know Bitcoiners would think for some reason, they they think that Bitcoin means, like, being a carnivore and, like, owning guns. But in actuality, like, getting paid in Bitcoin and interacting with Bitcoin, probably you're just like a computer nerd who, like, actually is relatively apolitical,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5290">1:28:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5290" data-t="5290">and probably you live in the San Francisco Bay Area, or some other, like, tech metropolis.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5295" data-t="5295">So I do think, like, I'm fortunate that at this point, I am so surrounded in my real life by, like, what I would call, like, genuine Bitcoin maxis that are, like, walking the walking the walk.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5307" data-t="5307">But I don't know. Like, I definitely still have</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5310" data-t="5310">friends that are, like, locked in the matrix that I don't think will ever get out. And, like, every time I see them, they're just like, oh, man. You told me to buy Bitcoin five years ago. If only I had listened. And I'm like, bro, it's never too late to start saving. You know? Like, don't think of it as an investment. Like, it's never too late to just, like, you know, get a little I try to like, if people can't sit for me, I try to, like, pay them in Bitcoin. I try to force them to, like, let me pay them in Bitcoin.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5335">1:28:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5335" data-t="5335">But I don't know. Something Yeah. It is little things. It's little things that make you feel, like, you're living your own version of the sovereign individual story in your own way, you know?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5344">1:29:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5344" data-t="5344">Yeah. And some people will they will like your ideas. They will like your perspective on life, but they they just feel like they need to get permission from somebody else to actually,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5355" data-t="5355">follow it themselves.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5358" data-t="5358">But, yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5361" data-t="5361">Richard, are you about ready to get into the found this? Or do you have any final questions?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5365">1:29:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5365" data-t="5365">Well, I just wanted to say real quick. If anybody was paying attention to the astrology, they would have seen that Kamala Harris was her chart was just as retarded as she appeared</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5375" data-t="5375">and that she had no chance of winning against Trump.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5378" data-t="5378">And you probably could have made a lot of money betting on PolyMarkets just based off of that alone.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5383">1:29:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5383" data-t="5383">It's true. It's true. I mean, ultimately, Trump's chart couldn't lose. Like, it's just the truth of it. And there were many, many astrologers that were very upset by this because a lot of astrologers</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5394" data-t="5394">are, like, Libtards. Right? So they can't deny what's happening in the stars, but they did not like to see it.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5403">1:30:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5403" data-t="5403">Yeah. The cope was real.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5405" data-t="5405">Yeah. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5407" data-t="5407">every week, what we do,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5409" data-t="5409">with,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5410" data-t="5410">our guests is we go through and we read the fountain boost from the week before, which is always an interesting experience.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5419" data-t="5419">You're following up, John Seth, which was a, you know, pretty big episode. But, it sounds like you so I asked before we go into this, I asked the guest two questions,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5429">1:30:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5429" data-t="5429">two very important questions. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5432" data-t="5432">you kinda answered this before we started recording, but did you listen to last week's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5437" data-t="5437">show?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5438">1:30:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5438" data-t="5438">I listened to half of it, so I'm not gonna know half. And also, I didn't this is so bad. Like, I know who Joon Seth is. Like, I know it's a name, but, like, I have no idea. Like, it's not my realm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5449" data-t="5449">So it was out of my, midst a little bit.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5453">1:30:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5453" data-t="5453">Yeah. He's a he's an OG Bitcoin podcaster.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5456" data-t="5456">He did, Bitcoin uncensored,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5458" data-t="5458">which is</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5459">1:30:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5459" data-t="5459">very important. Been told how money has Bitcoin uncensored vibes, I think. Did he have some big falling out with someone about, like, a token or something? Is that that podcast?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5469" data-t="5469">I don't know what the falling out was, but I think there was a split with Chris DeRose. Podcast broke up or something. And I've been told many times that Hell Money podcast has, like, pre Bitcoin uncensored,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5480" data-t="5480">split vibe. So I don't know what will cause the split of Hell Money podcast, but it does seem, like, auspicious that that happened to the last,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5489" data-t="5489">Bitcoin podcast that had our vibe. Have you charted this out?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5493" data-t="5493">I mean, ultimately, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on on that. You don't wanna know your chart compared to somebody else's. Unfortunately, it's like I'm too I'm I'm too in it, so I do know. But I I think I've managed things effectively</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5504" data-t="5504">such that, if if things really hit the fan, like, we would figure it out.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5509">1:31:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5509" data-t="5509">But how many podcasts could go up in flames at any time? There's really no way to know. You know, it's a Wow. It's It's an explosive, cutting edge, Brooklyn podcast.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5518">1:31:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5518" data-t="5518">It's hard to go on when you know it's doomed. But Mhmm. Mhmm. You know? You have to you have to find out you have to find out if it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5525" data-t="5525">if the chart's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5527" data-t="5527">gonna play out. You gotta know you gotta have that cathartic moment whether it's good or bad. Totally.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5533">1:32:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5533" data-t="5533">Wait. What was question number two? There was one question, but there's a second question too. Yeah. Are you Jewish?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5539" data-t="5539">No. I'm not, unfortunately.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5542">1:32:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5542" data-t="5542">Do you ever wish that you were Jewish?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5544">1:32:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5544" data-t="5544">Yeah. I do. Like, kind of often.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5547">1:32:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5547" data-t="5547">If you were Jewish, what type of Jew would you be?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5552">1:32:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5552" data-t="5552">I'd probably be, like, New York Ashkenazi. Like, I think that I would do really well in a community of, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5559" data-t="5559">like, I love Shabbat dinner. Shabbat I actually host Shabbat dinners, like, with my family even though they're not Jewish because I just think it's such a good tradition, and my parents are just like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5569" data-t="5569">okay. Like, I guess we're doing this.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5571" data-t="5571">So I think, like, I would be like a like a cultural Jew that would really, like, engage with a lot of the, like, traditions and, like, the fun activities.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5580" data-t="5580">Yeah. I really love, like, cultural Jewish activities. So I feel like I'd be very, very involved. I'd also be really into musical theater, which, like, I am now. So I'd be, like, a musical theater Jew as well.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5591">1:33:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5591" data-t="5591">I'm super I'm super binary. I I'd break it down. I'd rather would I rather be a New York Wall Street Jew or a Los Angeles, California Hollywood Jew? And I would prefer to be a Wall I would wanna be a Wall Street Jew at the end of the day. I like the weather in Los Angeles. I like the weather in Southern California,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5608" data-t="5608">but it's just a little too</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5611" data-t="5611">there's not enough macro out there for me.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5613">1:33:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5613" data-t="5613">If I was to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5615" data-t="5615">which, like, I I kinda, like, relate to being Jewish through osmosis having worked in the media for so long, but, like, I would pretty much be exactly how I am now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5625">1:33:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5625" data-t="5625">Yeah. I think the same. I mean, I feel like I already I mean, I have so many Jewish friends. I think I really am already, like, embodying a lot of the important aspects of being Jewish, which are mostly, like, cultural and social, not really, like, religious or moral in any way. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5638" data-t="5638">yeah, I do get kinda jealous of them. I do</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5641" data-t="5641">wish that I had, like, some sort of, like, community like that that, like, they don't care if you believe anything. You know what I mean? Like, it's not really about, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5650">1:34:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5650" data-t="5650">like, you can be an atheist Jew. It's totally fine. Like, they don't give a fuck. So You just have to be able to pay your taxes. You just gotta yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we talk about here. As long as you can afford to pay your taxes,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5660" data-t="5660">it's it's it's all good. You can be a part of the community.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5664">1:34:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5664" data-t="5664">Totally. So it's like I don't know. There's something very, like, beautiful and easy about that that I never had because I didn't have, like, a cultural identity that was so tight knit like that. You know? It's it's a beautiful thing.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5675">1:34:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5675" data-t="5675">Very cool. Well, we we need to get a Jew on the show because we've had a few non Jews and Casey's Jewish. Casey's Jewish. You can have him on the show. Oh, wow. Casey Ortiz is Jewish. Yeah. It starts putting the pieces together, doesn't it? You know, when when you learn that detail.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5689">1:34:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5689" data-t="5689">Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it would be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5691" data-t="5691">nothing would piss off Todd Kampf more than interviewing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5695" data-t="5695">Casey Ordinals. So that'd be wonderful.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5697">1:34:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5697" data-t="5697">Casey's something I something I don't understand, like, people haven't connected the dots. Like, Jeremy Rubin, Udi Wertheimer, Casey Rodemore, all Jewish. Like, I've not seen people point this out,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5707">1:35:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5707" data-t="5707">but I do think this is kind of an important this out every day on Oh, okay. You gotta send me the stuff. Twitter for sure. I'm trying to point it out to people, but but it's, like, you know They some of these guys in the Bitcoin and the Axie world, it's they notice that you the second the Jew show, like, walks in the door. They they got their they got they ironically, they have better, you know, sniffers</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5728">1:35:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5728" data-t="5728">than the cheese they're they're calling out. The thing about Oodi, though, is even the Jews don't like him.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5734">1:35:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5734" data-t="5734">Well, that's that's part of it. You know? It's like there's always antagonism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5738" data-t="5738">within the Jewish community as well.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5742" data-t="5742">Yeah. It's it's yeah. You should have Casey on. I mean, why not? You know, you need that that cultural perspective. He does the whole, like, the, like, wrapping the box thing. You know? What does it call it to fill in or something? Like, he does the he he does the wrapping the box thing on the arm, which I've I've told him before is, like, Saturn cube devil worship, but he does not listen.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5760" data-t="5760">So it is what it is.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5762">1:36:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5762" data-t="5762">Very interesting. Yeah. It would be good to have Casey on the show at some point.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5768" data-t="5768">What what was the I just blanked on when I was gonna</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5772">1:36:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5772" data-t="5772">You weren't gonna keep going down the the Jewish line of questioning? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One one last question</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5778">1:36:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5778" data-t="5778">about the Jews. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5780" data-t="5780">yeah. So, like, Casey is the descendant</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5782" data-t="5782">of the people that killed Jesus,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5786" data-t="5786">and he's the father of ordinals. And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5789" data-t="5789">do you think that is the crux</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5791" data-t="5791">of the</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5792">1:36:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5792" data-t="5792">conflict between Luke and and Casey is Luke looks at Casey and says,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5799" data-t="5799">you're</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5800" data-t="5800">the guy your your ancestors killed Jesus.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5804">1:36:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5804" data-t="5804">Mhmm. I don't like it. That's a really interesting point.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5807" data-t="5807">I mean, Luke also is set of a cantus, so he has problems even with, like, the normie Catholic church. Right? So it's like there's, like, layers to that. I mean, I think,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5818">1:36:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5818" data-t="5818">I could go out of a way. Idea.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5820">1:36:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5820" data-t="5820">Like, in a lot of ways, like, ordinals</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5823" data-t="5823">is a natural,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5826" data-t="5826">like, part of Bitcoin. It's like a natural way of looking at Bitcoin. And so I kinda feel like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5833" data-t="5833">Casey is I mean, by the way, Casey is, without a doubt, the biggest maxi that I know.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5837" data-t="5837">Like, actually committed to Bitcoin, actually knows it very well.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5842" data-t="5842">He's the most, like, technically sophisticated Bitcoin. It's crazy. Like, you can put him against anyone, and he knows everything. It's it's insane.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5849">1:37:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5849" data-t="5849">The way that I think of Casey is, like, that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5853" data-t="5853">I think ordinals is like a natural part of Bitcoin</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5856" data-t="5856">that required the right vessel to be made manifest. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5860" data-t="5860">I think it's Johnson Lau or Jonathan Lau, I don't remember his name, kind of first came up with the idea of ordinals in the Bitcoin talk forum in 2012. He kinda just was like, hey,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5869" data-t="5869">someone could do this. Like, someone could enumerate Satoshis</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5872" data-t="5872">in this way. And he just didn't do it,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5875">1:37:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5875" data-t="5875">probably because he had, like, a job or, like, something else to do or, like, a wife or whatever.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5880" data-t="5880">And I think Casey was kind of just, like, the right vessel at the right time to bring ordinals to life, but I think it's always been there, and it's always been kind of stewing around. So, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5891" data-t="5891">you know, I think Luke is essentially a puritanical,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5895" data-t="5895">like, religious freak that that and that's, like, regardless of the Bitcoin aspect, like, that's just generally true.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5902" data-t="5902">He's had. Yeah. He he talks about it. Yeah. So it's like yeah. It's part of his, like, identity very openly. So I think, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5910" data-t="5910">ultimately,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-5911">1:38:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Erin Redwing</b> <span class="cue" id="t-5911" data-t="5911">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5912" data-t="5912">Luke is afraid of, like, losing what he sees as, like, his ideological</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5916" data-t="5916">or, like, intellectual control or understanding of what Bitcoin is. And, like, ordinals push that in a way that doesn't compute</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5923" data-t="5923">with, like, his understanding of the world and, like, his religious fervor. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5928" data-t="5928">I don't know. I think, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5930" data-t="5930">Casey's, like, a very,</span></span></p> +