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1:40Richard Greaser Welcome to this very special edition of behind the podcast. This is, Richard Grieser tuning in. Joining me today is Aaron Redwing and Ron Palmer as usual. If any of you guys don't know who Aaron Redwing is, she is quite an exceptional person. I've been listening to the Hell Money podcast. I've added that to my forty hours per per week. And I my mind has been blown because it

2:10Richard Greaser you know, the reason why we listen to forty hours a week of podcast is for entropy because one hour a week, two hours a week, five hours a week isn't enough. You can't really hit that max entropy. Once you when you you start hitting forty hours, you get tired of hearing Jeff Booth go on everybody's show and seeing the exact same things every time. You get tired of the macro. You can only take so much macro, and you have to start getting out there and hearing something different. And Aaron, Redwing here, does a phenomenal job on the show Hell Money

2:43Richard Greaser with her co host Casey Ordinals, and they discuss a wide variety of things such as ordinals, which, you know, I I don't understand at all. It sounds like people are putting data in the blockchain that doesn't consist of transaction data. And, Luke Junior is really upset about it, but it is interesting to hear about. But one of the things that I found very fascinating, Aaron, is your takes on astrology

3:12Richard Greaser and your takes on spirituality as a whole. And it sounds like we're either in or I I don't really understand it, but it sounds like we're either in or we're entering into the age of Aquarius.

3:26Erin Redwing But, yeah, how are you doing tonight? What's going on? I'm I'm good. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here because I consider myself to be a troll podcaster in a lot of ways, and so it's good to be amongst, you know, others like that. I also appreciate the shout out of adding how money to the forty hours per week of podcast. I think it I think it's a nice palate cleanser. I think it's a little bit of you know, if you're used to listening to, like, macro econ pseudoscience for the majority of your forty hours, you can put in a little bit of astrology, pseudo pseudoscience in there, and it just kinda switches things up. It doesn't shake the boat too much. So, yeah. Happy to be here. Very excited to talk about astrology, Bitcoin spirituality,

4:08Erin Redwing ordinals, which is just Bitcoin astrology in its own way. Yeah. I'm excited to get into it.

4:16Rod Palmer They're good. So, one thing a good Bitcoin podcast provides listeners is outflow. But something that a real a bit of thermodynamically sound Bitcoin podcast provides is entropy. So, yeah. But, like, astrology is a great topic for the podcast entropy. And, most people think that macro is the astrology

4:41Rod Palmer of, you know, like the relationship there is like macro is astrology for dudes who, you know, work on Wall Street. But, it sounds like it is you've compared it to something else.

4:54Erin Redwing Yeah. I mean, I think it in a lot of ways, it could literally be astrology. So part of the, you know, astrology, a lot of people just think of it as, like, you know, sun sign horoscopes. Right? Like, I'm a Leo. What does that mean my day is gonna be like? Or what does that mean about my personality? But astrology is thousands of years old, and it's kinda gone through a lot of iterations. And one of the iterations that it went through in the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds was, when daily newspapers became a popular thing, where you would get a paper delivered to your door every single day. All of a sudden, all these newspaper companies

5:29Erin Redwing needed, content every single day. And so they were trying to find what sort of columns can have something that every single day there's something to say that people will wanna read. And the three categories that they came up with was weather, economics, so like market forecast for the day, and astrology. And that's how sun sign horoscopes were born. Like, we didn't do sun sign horoscopes until basically the twentieth century. And it was essentially an invention of newspapers. And so the reason why I say some of economics may literally be astrology

5:60Erin Redwing is that what that created was a bunch of media rooms where there were astrologers and economists working side by side, oftentimes dating and marrying and having social circles. And if you look at kind of like the the econ bros that emerge, especially in the Bitcoin space where people talk a lot about economic collapse and things aren't working and let's look at history and see how we're repeating. A lot of the cycles that come out are literally astrological cycles like Ray Dalio has the two hundred and fifty year cycle of empire rise and fall, which probably a lot of people are familiar with. That is literally the Pluto return cycle. The Pluto return cycle is two hundred fifty years exactly. There's another plot. Maybe I'll send it to you guys. I don't know if you have, like if if I can get, like, documents in here for for your viewers to,

6:45Erin Redwing to look at. But there's another one that looks at different cycles in economics, and the cycles are eighty four years, a hundred and sixty five years, and two hundred and fifty years, which is the Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto cycles respectively. And the last step that I The fourth turning is astrology. Four turning. Yep. Four turning is the Uranus return cycle, approximately eighty years. And so, you know, I don't really know if these people that publish these things explicitly know that they're astrology. I think it's possible that the economic models that they're using have just slowly integrated astrology probably just from that genesis of working with astrologers in media from an, you know, early nineteen hundreds. But in a lot of cases, like, the reason why I affectionately referred to economics as pseudoscience is because it it is like trying to model fit without a real plausible mechanism, which is what astrology does. Right? It's like the study of cycles, trying to pattern match, and then saying this will happen because it happened before.

7:40Erin Redwing And and I think, like, the two fields I mean, it's just like, whatever, econ b f, astrology g f. Like, it's it's a perfect dialectic between men and women. And I think that's ultimately why when I meet people, in Bitcoin, which are primarily men, if they have their wives with them, their wives are, like, totally tuned out until I say, I'm a Bitcoin astrologer. And then all of a sudden, they're like, you're a Bitcoin astrologer? I'm a Taurus, and he's a Capricorn. What does that mean? And I'm like, oh, well bitcoin's a Capricorn too. That maybe is why he likes it. And like, all of a sudden their wife is so much more interested in this thing that probably he's been trying to get her into for the last five to ten years. And so I I don't know. It's astrology brought me to Bitcoin. That was what got me into Bitcoin in the first place. And so it felt natural for me to just kind of go into that niche and and make content around that because that's that feels like my bread and butter. And also, Bitcoin people are so culty

8:33Erin Redwing that I feel like they kind of need something to to grab on to that's not just like say that. You know? So

8:40Rod Palmer the, a lot of our listeners, they have a problem. They're orange cells. A lot of the guys who listen to a lot of macro, they're libertarians, but they're orange cells, which means, you know, they're really struggling to orange pill anybody. Definitely can't orange pill their girlfriends, and they're very frustrated with it. But these are also, like, the people that are most like to be, you know, somebody who makes fun of astrology or who don't, you know, thinks that it's bullshit. But,

9:07Rod Palmer maybe if they knew, like, the compatible signs and they, like, narrowed their orange pilling to, like, if they're an Aries, like, they would try to orange pill, you know, a a compatible sign. Maybe they didn't find that they had more block.

9:20Erin Redwing Yeah. I mean, I think if they just, you know, if when they were trying to explain to their wives, girlfriends, prospective lovers, whatever, if they said, you know, oh, like, Bitcoin's actually really interesting because it has an exact birth time, so you can do really precise astrology on it. And I think that's really cool. I'm not into it personally, but I know some people that are. Like, I think that might do a lot more to get someone particularly a woman you're interested in To to Women are It's like better bait. You know? Women are always interested in the boring details. So to teach your girlfriend or your wife the boring details,

9:53Rod Palmer and that's how, like, maybe she'll get into Bitcoin. Yeah. Exactly. You gotta hook her. You know?

9:58Richard Greaser Well, I think yeah. So so when you're thinking of an orange shell, you're thinking of the guy, you know, who goes on a Tinder date or a Hinge date. Right? And about five minutes into the date, they're already trying to explain Michael Sailor's explanation of thermodynamics. Right? And the woman sitting there and they're like, this guy is an idiot.

10:22Richard Greaser Dennis Porter and Michael Sailor don't make me horny. It might make them horny, but it's not my thing. Do you think that it would be more productive for men on a first date instead of explaining some esoteric aspect about Bitcoin to that woman in the first five minutes to open up with what their,

10:43Erin Redwing astrology sign is and to do a little bit more research on that? Oh, for sure. I mean, just on a very basic level beyond Bitcoin, like, I think, astrology is, like, a super easy topic of conversation with people. I actually like astrology as a filter for people, mostly because I think it weeds out people that are closed minded for no reason. I very rarely, if ever, met people that hate astrology that actually know about it at all. I worked in I was actually an astronomer before I was an astrologer. It's kind of a weird story. Like, I I was doing my PhD in planetary science when I got into astrology, and I ended up dropping out of that and kind of going full time in astrology. But I lived a double life for quite a long time, and astronomers are some of the most

11:28Erin Redwing antagonistic people to astrology. And it's it's very strange to me because they're not, in conflict. Like, astrologers aren't trying to explain the structure of the universe. Right? They're just sort of trying to ascribe meaning to it. And they like when there are new astronomical things found. Like they just sort of add it to their lore, and it's fun for them. But I think what happens with astronomers is, like, they get it in their head that in some way this is competing with them, or maybe they've told people, oh, I'm an astronomer, and the person says, oh my god. I'm a Gemini. And that, like, pisses them off for some reason. But in any case, like, they're the most triggered, antagonistic people towards astrology, like, in general that I've had to deal with, and I had to deal with them for many years. And so I've kind of developed like a like I there's nothing that phases me that someone can say about astrology. Like I don't care if it's fake at this point. I I've kind of like I've I've said everything to myself. I've tried to investigate it from a logical empirical perspective as much as I can, and I can't help but believe in it. It's like a mine virus, just like Bitcoin.

12:30Erin Redwing And, you know, I think I think ultimately what shows to me when someone is very antagonistic to astrology is usually just like a general grumpiness that's not very attractive in general. So it's not so much that you need to be an expert on astrology and like know that you're a Gemini and she's a Scorpio, and that could be a dangerous but sexy match. It's more that like if you come across like, oh, that's stupid. I think what you're doing is dumb and fake, and then you say, hey, but my digital money that you don't know anything about is very real, and I need you to care about that. It doesn't indicate that you're really gonna be a good match. Doesn't indicate that you're smart at all.

13:08Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, it's, what do you what do you do to these these people that dislike astrology and very low information people? Do you tell them to have fun staying poor? Do you have, like, a whole bunch of memes up your sleeve that you throw at them?

13:24Rod Palmer Yeah. Do you do you listen to forty hours of astrology podcasts per week, or did you, at a time,

13:30Erin Redwing listen to forty hours of astrology? I listen to more astrology content than I do Bitcoin content. That's part of why I started a Bitcoin podcast because I thought that there was there was there was a missing niche for a Bitcoin podcast just like mine. Every know you should have. Every Bitcoin podcaster feels.

13:47Rod Palmer And you're right. And you're right.

13:50Erin Redwing But, yeah, I definitely am more on the astrology side of things. Well, ordinals sort of changed that because ordinals was unexpected. All of a sudden, I was at the center of an ecosystem that where I went on Bitcoin Twitter, and everyone was, like, talking about Casey, and that was a very weird experience. But, before that, I was, like, much more on astrology Internet than I was on Bitcoin Internet, because Bitcoin Internet's very boring in a lot of ways. But honestly, like, in terms of dealing with astrology haters, as I said, like, I was a trained scientist. I was an astronomer. I have already done all of the breaking down of why it's fake, and it's like I just still don't care. I think it's I have a lot of reasons why I think it's real, but ultimately, they all boil down to belief,

14:36Erin Redwing not to something that could be empirically tested. And so it does kinda just become a situation where I think when people hate astrology, they're expecting someone who's not me on the other side of that. And so it's just like it becomes like a weird argument where it doesn't quite match up with their expectations in a way that throws them off.

14:56Rod Palmer Would you say that there's more scammers and grifters in Bitcoin or in astrology?

15:01Erin Redwing Oh, that's a great question. Certainly Bitcoin. I mean, now, you know, I came from the Bitcoin maxi side of things originally, but now with ordinals, I'm much more exposed to crypto. Obviously, there's way more scammers and grifters in crypto, but, it's shocking to me how many people are kind of outright sociopaths

15:25Erin Redwing in a way that's I don't know. It makes sense. Right? I guess, like, it's it's incentive kind of antagonistic environment, but, astrology is much more, people are just, like, into it and wanna talk about it. That being said, you know, I think most people have had the experience of meeting some spirituality person who just looks completely dead behind the eyes and, like, seems like they have literally no soul. And I do think that spirituality topics in general attract people who have really dark past that want to, like, spiritually bypass that and be forgiven.

15:58Erin Redwing So on the extreme end, there might be more sociopaths, like scammer, grifter, whatever in astrology, but I would say as a general rule, astrology people are much more like intuitive noticers that just wanna, like, observe phenomena and track them to a pattern, you know?

16:16Richard Greaser Makes sense. Yeah. Well, the the way that I came to believe in astrology and become interested in it is because it's biblical. The bible says astrology is real. And this is one of the things that I found really kind of strange is that I feel like a lot of people that are the biggest critics of astrology are are staunch Christians in a lot of ways. And, you know, the reality is, you know, if there's anybody listening like Luke Luke Junior, for example, he probably doesn't really care for he doesn't like ordinals. He doesn't like astrology.

16:48Richard Greaser But it's like, Luke, if you read the bible and you read about the birth of Jesus, which you should do every Christmas and you probably do with your family, you probably have your 25 kids sitting down and you're reading them the story of Jesus being born in the manger. Guess who showed up to the party?

17:05Unknown The astrologers showed up. The astrologers Three wise men.

17:08Richard Greaser Exactly.

17:10Erin Redwing So The three wise men following a star to the birth of Jesus Christ. Yeah. I mean, that was the beginning of the age of Pisces. So you mentioned earlier that we're in this, like, transition to the age of Aquarius. So the ages are the longest cycle in astrological time. They're two thousand years approximately,

17:28Erin Redwing and that's the procession of you know how Earth is not, it's hard for me to gesture while also staying in front of the mic. Earth's rotation is not purely up and down. It's like at an angle. Right? So that that angle of rotation shifts over time, and that takes about twenty six thousand years for it to go the whole way around. So if you divide that up by 12 signs, 12 quadrants of the sky, you have these astrological ages where the equinox is pointed at a specific astrological sign. So the birth of Jesus Christ, which is what the three wise men were looking for, was the beginning of the age of Pisces. Those three wise men, they were astrologers.

18:06Erin Redwing They were looking to see, okay, we're following this specific sign for the beginning of this next astrological two thousand year cycle. We wanna be there. We wanna, like, pay our respects and be a part of it. And now with the age of the Internet, we're entering into a new age, which I can get into, but to stay on the the Christian side of it, you're absolutely right. Like, Christianity and astrology have never really been antagonistic to each other. If you look at, the astronomers during the enlightenment that were saying things like, oh, actually I think the earth revolves around the sun, and then, like, getting killed by the church for that, or under house arrest or whatever, those people were primarily practicing astrologers who did astronomy as a hobby. Galileo was a great example.

18:49Erin Redwing Galileo was a practicing astrologer. That's how he made his income. The church knew this, had no problem with it. As long as you didn't say, like, that the planets were gods themselves or that you sort of tried to imply that you had some specific mystical way of knowing things that made you kind of above other people. The church was totally fine with astrology. The problem that they had with people like Galileo

19:11Erin Redwing was that they were challenging the structure of the universe, which was an astronomical idea. And so, like, I think somewhere along the way, kind of just like a satanic panic narrative got tied up into what people think astrology is. Also, astrology is a little bit pagan, so I kind of understand, like, if you do, you know, get into, like, oh, Jupiter's a god. Saturn's a god. Whatever. Like, that's like Roman and Greek, like, paganism. Right? So I kind of understand where people start to get their wires crossed. But historically speaking, there was never a division between astrology and Christianity. Or I should say there was never an antagonism between those two groups. So I don't know. I always think it's interesting that that people go there. Because to me, again, it just shows ignorance. Right? It just shows they don't know what they're talking about. They're kinda just like

19:58Erin Redwing vibe checking, because they don't understand and they're scared of it. But like literally age of Pisces, Pisces is a fish, Christian fish is the Jesus symbol, like the, you know the the brain, psychedelic, schizophrenia connections should all be connecting now where you realize like oh my god it all makes sense.

20:14Rod Palmer Like is there can you find connections or patterns between like the major religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Bitcoin maximalism. Like, can those can you find can you explain those can you find patterns in that by using astrology? Like, what are, like, the, common, you know, interpretations?

20:35Erin Redwing Yeah. So I would say, the age of Pisces, which is the age that we're leaving, but that we've been in since, you know, year zero, was the age of monotheism. Pisces actually, can I ask you guys what your signs are? Is that too doxing?

20:49Rod Palmer I'm Aries.

20:51Erin Redwing Love that. I'm

20:52Richard Greaser a Gemini.

20:53Erin Redwing Wow. Slight. Okay. Bitcoin's an Aries moon, so there's a lot of Aries in Bitcoin because they're attracted to, like, Bitcoin's inner world. Anyway, the age of Pisces and Pisces as a sign in general is all about, like, dissolving yourself into a a larger conglomerate. So Pisces are not very individually minded. They're not good at kind of having their own individual direction. They can fall into escapism. They can fall into delusions.

21:21Erin Redwing And so Pisces prefer to sort of defer to someone else for knowledge. And basically, I think when you look at the major monotheistic religions that have dominated the last two thousand years, you see that as their structure, where it's like you kind of have to go further and further up to the top in order to get information, and you yourself don't have an individual way of connecting with God, or at least not sort of through the traditional church teachings.

21:48Erin Redwing I think Bitcoin maximalism a lot of the kind of Bitcoin Maxi religion is is repeating these patterns. But I think if you really talk to people who are actually, like, deeply spiritual about Bitcoin, not in, like, a performative

22:04Erin Redwing crisis of faith filling the gaps with something just because they they lost faith in traditional institutions and they need to just replace it. You talk to people who really have, like, a true spirituality around Bitcoin, they often just have a general reverence for the age of transformation in the Internet that we're in right now. So it's more that they're kind of like Accelerationists. Yeah. Exactly. They're like, okay. Like, we don't know how many years we have left until the AI controls everything. Like, I'm not saying that's a good way to be, like, spiritually or religiously, but it's a little bit different. It's almost like they're they're, like, trying to put the pieces together themselves. They're acting like conspiracy theorists or, like, weirdos in, like, the dark forms trying to, like, understand the secrets of the universe. It's a very different thing than, like, going to the church of Michael Saylor and, like, expressing your worship that way. So I don't know. I think Bitcoin maxis are a little bit

22:56Erin Redwing misguided in that I think the the spiritual reverence that they feel is real, but I think they don't have the language to articulate the type of spirituality that's emerging with the Internet age. And so that's why I kind of wanted to start talking about Bitcoin astrology, not because I think everyone is gonna be into astrology. It kinda takes a specific, you know, I don't know. I like systems. I like I like cycles. I like to be able to, make predictions and check myself. It gives a lot of structure for understanding time cycles around you, which in a very volatile market can can be helpful.

23:32Erin Redwing But I think that sort of movement towards, like, coming up with your own spiritual ways of understanding things rather than expecting someone else higher up above you to do it for you, that's what we should be doing as Bitcoiners in general. Right? Like, that's what Bitcoiners love to think of themselves as. They're like, I'm sovereign individual. But it's like, you're not, bro, if you're just, like, parroting the opinions of someone else higher than you that actually doesn't even really know how Bitcoin works in the first place.

24:00Richard Greaser You don't think Corey Clipston knows how Bitcoin works?

24:04Erin Redwing Actually, I have some hot takes about Corey Clipston. I think Corey We we have some too. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. Who doesn't? Corey is interesting because I feel like Corey is kind of, yeah, one of those, like, genuine sociopath types that I was talking about before. Corey in the early days of ordinals was actually quite friendly to me and Casey. He reached out. He wanted to talk. He was like, hey, bro. It's so cool you're doing stuff on Bitcoin. Like, I'm so excited for you if you ever need help.

24:35Erin Redwing And then I think he realized that, the fact that ordinals was driving up fees was a direct threat to Swan's business model, which tries to prioritize low fee transactions. I don't know if he realized it, someone else realized it. This is sort of me filling in the the dots. And then I think the Swan Media conglomerate kind of pushed the narrative through all of their pod con,

24:60Erin Redwing you know, extended universe to say ordinals are immoral. Right? It's it's actually not about the technical things that have to do with my business model not working in a high fee environment, which by the way will always be a problem if Bitcoin succeeds. It's it's that it's spam. It's immoral. This is this is degenerate scammy behavior. And and I think that narrative emerged because of business incentive reasons. And I haven't really heard that many people say that, which is confusing to me, because to me it seems

25:29Erin Redwing obvious.

25:31Rod Palmer But It also it also seems obvious that something as important as Bitcoin would be used to inscribe everybody's daily horoscope in the blockchain every day. Like, that's what they're gonna do with it. Right? Eventually.

25:45Erin Redwing And it's, you know I I don't do a ton of inscribing myself because it's expensive. Right? And I think that's part of what I like about inscriptions is that they're, they naturally are spam resistant because you have to pay money to put something on Bitcoin, just like I have to pay transaction fees to send you Bitcoin. So, the only things that I've really personally inscribed myself is, like, I have a project where I inscribe astronomical data, so, like, the exact position of planets onto Satoshis

26:14Erin Redwing from the exact time that they were mined in order to create a tether between decentralized Bitcoin block time and decentralized astronomical time, which is like the decentralized clock of the natural world. I view this as, like, an important primary source document for future Bitcoin archaeologists that are, like, trying to understand our civilization. Right. I mean, I could go off on this forever, but, like No. TLDR, Bitcoin is the library of Alexandria that can't be burned. And we have in front of us, like, a situation where the winners can write history and always do. And the winners in this case are anyone who's inscribing things on Bitcoin. That doesn't mean that what they inscribe is true or good or valuable, but Bitcoin is essentially the most robust decentralized data archive in existence, And it spreads like a virus where every time that you mine Bitcoin, every time that you run a node, it replicates in its entirety, including all of its inscriptions. And so if you think about, like,

27:07Erin Redwing what is a permanent online document that will outlive me, you, maybe our kids, whatever, It's probably going to be Bitcoin with all of those inscriptions on it, and that's probably going to be the way that if you imagine, like, thousands of years in the future, like, archaeologists, like, digging up a Bitcoin node, trying to understand our civilization, they'll be like, oh my god, I guess this little frog was their god. Like, they seem to really love this little frog. You know? No. So I don't understand

27:34Rod Palmer why you wouldn't be excited by that if you're into Bitcoin. You know? That's what I that's what I mean. Like, that cost that you it's like everybody talks about. The reason that ordinals and inscriptions are important. Now this is, you know, one of the early arguments, but it's still one of the underlying arguments, is that shit coins, like, now you can have an NFT on this chain or that chain with this bridge or that bridge, but the most valuable ones are gonna come back to Bitcoin. So and people are gonna know that the most valuable horoscopes are gonna be inscriptions. It's not gonna be in the newspaper. It's not gonna be in the New York Times. That's for sure. It's not gonna be on Ethereum. The most like, people are gonna tune in to the horoscope on Bitcoin because that's the most signal.

28:13Erin Redwing Yeah. And, I mean, you can literally time it to the like, I mean, imagine that you're a miner. Right? And you're mining, let's say, a block a day. Miners that wanna know their horoscopes too. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. You could literally do it with that moment. You could say at this moment that this time the time that this block was mined and these stats were created, this is what the stars were like. This is our inferences about them. Like, I mean, the fortunate thing about, like, planetary positions is that once you have a couple positions, you can project out the orbits of planets for thousands of years. So you don't need that many tethers between, planetary position and exact time in order to create an entire model of the solar system. Like, right now, we have the data on Bitcoin to create a model of the solar system that we can project out for hundreds of years. So I can do on chain astrology already. It's it's quite beautiful.

29:02Richard Greaser Well, you know, talking about business incentives too with astrology and and why a lot of these these people because I kind of imagine the maximalists don't like astrology in general. I I feel like they'll be skeptics of it in the same way they are of ordinals.

29:17Rod Palmer I can just hear a predator right now. Yeah. Yeah. Pleader predators ring,

29:23Richard Greaser for sure. But, yeah, I mean, talking about business incentives, like, you know, not not to say that Corey is necessarily against astrology. We haven't seen that yet, but, like, one of the things that's very obvious that could be cults. Yeah. He likes cults for sure. But one of the things that is very obvious is if we have more Bitcoin astrologers

29:47Richard Greaser out there, we're gonna get more women in Bitcoin. And if there's more women in Bitcoin, it means the orange shells are gonna find girlfriends. And if the orange shells find girlfriends, they're not gonna be as horny for Michael Saylor and for, it's gonna be bad for the MicroStrategy

30:04Erin Redwing prices. Gonna really cut into their forty hours a week that they need to be clocking in at the Bitcoin podcast mines. You know what I mean? It's not good. A lot of a lot of people are gonna get girlfriends are stop listening to podcasts, and we're gonna lose a lot of really good simps. Yep. Yeah. It's a shame. I mean, but honestly, ordinals events have much more I mean so I I'm kind of the the perfect. I'm the pod con, connoisseur here in that, like, I'm a Bitcoin podcaster, and I host Bitcoin conferences. So I really am doing it all. And the conferences I host are all ordinals conferences, and the gender ratio is way better. And part of that is because I I have this, like, esoteric astrological bend in all the things that I do, and so that's kind of the audience that I attract. But part of it is that because it's like it's art and culture. Like, art and culture is inherently more interesting to women

30:52Erin Redwing than economics, and you telling me that Bitcoin's literally a battery. You know? Like, it's just content wise, it's a totally different environment. So I don't know. Come to an ordinals conference. You might meet, a GF who at least understands Bitcoin, like, 30%.

31:08Richard Greaser You know? What what's the gender ratio look like?

31:11Erin Redwing I would say it's probably, like, thirty, seventy, maybe 35, 65. Yeah. It's better. I mean, I've had I went to BitBlock Boom in twenty ninth no. 2021 or 2022. I don't remember.

31:28Erin Redwing And I literally think there were three women there, including me. Like, in the one of the parties that I was there. I don't mean to say there's only three women at that entire event, but it was like, I walked into one of the after parties, and I was like, this is shocking. This is horrifying. And of course, everyone just thinks I'm there, because I'm Casey's wife. Right? Like, that's Well, a lot of a lot of them. By the way. I'm not Casey's wife. I'm just a an insane astrology girl that's obsessed with Bitcoin.

31:50Rod Palmer A lot of the women at at bit Bitbuck bloomed out. To be fair, at late at parties, they are a little too old to be in sleep. They're back at the hotel. That's true. That's true. That's why that's not a fear. I would say that's that's a just to set the context.

32:05Richard Greaser Yeah. Yeah. As a conference organizer with with a little bit more reasonable gender ratio, Like, how do you deal with the logistical issues of of the bathroom lines? Because I like, I know a lot of the women I talk to that go to Bitbucket and the Bitcoin magazine conference. Like, one of the things that they're really happy about, like, they don't want the gender ratio to improve. One, because their dating stock value is a lot higher when everybody's walking around with their Podkoff goggles on. But then they also feel like VP VIPs because they get to walk in the bathroom and they don't have to wait in line. Like, does that present any issues for the attendees having to wait in line for the bathroom when they wanna hear somebody talk on stage?

32:47Erin Redwing Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, crypto in general has a better gender ratio than Bitcoin does. Like, if you go to something like ETHDenver, for example, it's almost maybe not fifty fifty, because there's a lot of there's like like corporate crypto is probably still very, very, male dominated. But, like, once you get into kinda like web three world, there's a lot of people that are thinking like, oh, we're gonna make NFTs for makeup. We're like, we're gonna make NFTs for luxury fashion items. And so there's kind of all these weird things that

33:18Erin Redwing draw contingencies of women in. And ordinals, primarily the women in ordinals, are crypto women that are learning about Bitcoin for the first time. So for them, I think it's still quite an upgrade in terms of bathroom line experience. I hope they don't go to a normal Bitcoin conference and then stop coming to my ordinals conferences because they realize how good they could have it. But, yeah, honestly, ordinals, I would say, was more of an onboarding crypto people to Bitcoin rather than, like, Bitcoin people getting into ordinals, which was a surprise for me when ordinals kinda took off.

33:52Richard Greaser Very interesting.

33:56Rod Palmer We had a we had a one of our buddies in Telegram. He wanted me to ask. He's an orange cell. And he wanted me to ask, do you think that I have to focus on orange pilling a woman around age three or 31 when she's going through her Saturn return? Do you think, like, if I don't hit that window, like, she's expired? She's not gonna be orange filled? That's a really good question.

34:23Erin Redwing Yeah. So for those of you who aren't familiar, the Saturn return is a really important astrological cycle that happens in your late twenties to it's like age 27 to 30, depending on where Saturn is in your chart. And that time, I sort of consider it to be like the actual beginning of of true adulthood, where it's like, if you've totally fucked around in your twenties and, like, not done work on yourself and not built anything for yourself, you hit 30 and you're like, fuck. What am I doing with my life? This is awful, and it's a terrible experience. Alternatively, if you've, like, been trying really hard and it seems like nothing is breaking through, whatever, you reach your Saturn return, and Saturn is the ruler of karma, so you kind of become rewarded for the hard work that you've put in. So

35:06Erin Redwing in terms of, like, I think, orange pilling, it's probably good to orange pill before or during the Saturn return, because I think I don't know if if that that's like an idea that I think has to hit you relatively early that you can gravitate to. I also think, you know, it's like it's the Saturn return has a financial bend to it as well, where it's like, have you done financially well during your twenties? In which case, like, you get promoted, you have financial stability, you buy a house, whatever. Or have you just, like, squandered all your money, and you're, like, living with roommates in your thirties and whatever. So I feel like if if she's averse to being, orange pilled at or before that time,

35:48Erin Redwing it's probably not a great, like, money manifesting vibe. Like, you want a woman who, like, is able to, like, get into that money abundance mindset. You know what I mean? So Right. Do they have, like, do they have, like, apps or trackers so you can find out when, like, a woman is in her, like, astrological

36:06Rod Palmer cycle that's, like, most fertile for orange pilling?

36:10Erin Redwing For orange pilling specifically. Yeah. And this in this window. Yeah. In this window, you want a orange fill in this window. Right? I feel like it's a little bit more about her compatibility with Bitcoin. That's the way I would think about it. So Bitcoin has a natal chart because Bitcoin was the first Bitcoin block, the Genesis block. I consider that to be the birth of Bitcoin. The white paper was like the conception, and then, you know, it it gestated for a couple months, and then it was born on 01/03/2009. And the cool thing about Bitcoin astrology is that because you have that exact time of the first block being mined, you can do really exact astrology on Bitcoin. You don't know its location of birth, so that confuses a couple things, but it's not super important.

36:53Erin Redwing And so because of that, you can look at, like, a woman's chart relative to Bitcoin, and you can see if they have synastry. So for example, Rod, you're an Aries. Bitcoin is an Aries moon. I find that a lot of times Aries are attracted to Bitcoin because Bitcoin has this, like, deep Aries sort of fighter vibe to it. And so, like, I think maybe what might be more productive is if you break down Bitcoin's chart, which a a seasoned Bitcoin astrologer could do this for you. Also, you can get Bitcoin astrology reading, and you can see your compatibility or a woman that you're interested in her compatibility with Bitcoin. You can identify like, oh, okay. You know, her Mercury is conjunct Bitcoin Saturn. So Bitcoin as a store of value is gonna be an idea that communicates to her. Or, you know, Bitcoin in the Aries moon case, maybe she's an Aries sun, Bitcoin's an Aries moon. Bitcoin's fighter spirit is gonna is gonna speak to her because she also has that fiery spirit.

37:49Erin Redwing So what I would say is, like, maybe, you know, get a Bitcoin astrologer to look an expert to look at at a chart for you, and then you can see what the n is. And also, if you tell a girl, hey. Can I get your, like, time and place of birth because I really want an astrologer to look at our synastry, that's already, like, plus two or three points with her? So I think that alone is a really good move.

38:15Richard Greaser Definitely. So I wanna talk about ordinals. So I don't really know anything about ordinals. I've never I've never touched an ordinal. At least, I don't know. Maybe somebody sent me a rare stat or something, and I have no idea. But to me, every all Bitcoin's fungible in the way that I use it. Just because out of ignorance, not not necessarily out of, any preference or ideology. I just don't I don't know,

38:41Erin Redwing how that It's super simple, honestly. I think the problem that people have is that they mix up ordinals and inscriptions. Bitcoin because all an ordinal is is a unique identifying number for a Satoshi. So Yeah. If you imagine the first was touching people's ordinals at the last Bitcoin conference. Well, you know, everyone's touching ordinals. I'm touching your ordinals. You're touching my ordinals. You know, we're all touching ordinals all the time. But, yeah, you may have never touched an inscription. That's possible. So, basically, all ordinals is is like serial numbers for Satoshis. So if you start at the first Bitcoin block, which mined 50 Bitcoin, the first Satoshi

39:23Erin Redwing is sat zero, ordinal number zero. And then whatever, there's however many 100,000,000 Satoshis in a Bitcoin, so it's like 50 times a 100,000,000. That ordinal number was the last one, or maybe it was minus one. So it's like four nine nine nine nine nine, whatever. Those are those ordinal numbers. Then you mine the next block, and you get 50 blah blah blah blah blah to nine nine nine nine nine ordinals. And you keep going all the way to twenty one forty when the last sat is mined, and then you basically just have an ordering scheme for Satoshis.

39:53Erin Redwing And the way that ordinal theory works is because Bitcoin has this UTXO model where I can I have my UTXO, which has my stats in it? I send you maybe half of those stats, and so half approximately of those stats come back to me. There's, like, a little bit taken off from the miner. If I if I take the stats that I sent you and I trace them back all the way back to the block that they were first born in when they were mined, I can then find their ordinal number. And so essentially, it's just an algorithm for tracking every satoshi based on its, like, birth order, essentially. That's why I say ordinals is, astrology for Bitcoin, because it's basically like caring about

40:30Erin Redwing identifying the birth of satoshis and ascribing meaning to that, which is literally exactly what we do with astrology. We say, okay, these are the planetary positions at the time that you were born, and I'm gonna ascribe meaning to that. And when you when you talk about things like uncommon sats, rare sats, whatever, those are sats that are interesting for arbitrary reasons. The arbitrary reasons are, let's say it's the first sat in a block or it's the first sat after a difficulty adjustment. So that's uncommon and rare. And so that's literally like getting into, like, time cycle, like, astrology stuff for for time cycles, natural time cycles in Bitcoin. So that's all ordinals is.

41:09Erin Redwing Ordinals then enables the tracking of inscriptions, where if I take a transaction and I have the first side of that transaction, that's gonna be the one that's assigned to the inscription. I have a transaction, and in that transaction, I put in a monkey JPEG or I put in a Pepe image or whatever. And in that transaction, that transaction is now put on Bitcoin forever, and the first SAT in that transaction becomes the identifier, the tracking piece for that inscription. So then when I transfer that ordinal around,

41:39Erin Redwing everyone has the consensus. It is a social hallucination, by the way. Like, it's totally like social consensus. You have to believe in ordinal theory in order to be into inscriptions as tradable assets. But let's say that you believe in ordinals. You subscribe to the collective consensual hallucination, and you basically then, after you've inscribed content on that first sat, you can then transfer that sat around, and that's how you trade the inscription. The inscription lives on Bitcoin. The inscription isn't moving around. You're just trading the tracker. So it's probable, if not, like yeah. It's probable that you haven't ever had inscriptions in your wallet, because I don't think a ton of them are floating around. Some of them get spent to fees or deposited into exchanges. Like, it does happen. But in general, I would say we're still at a phase of ordinals where, like,

42:27Erin Redwing it's not entirely just, like, junk floating around. But I dream of a day where, you know, you are you're, like, doing some crazy high fee transaction between, like, the Bank of China and the Bank of the United States that's, like, insane high fee transaction, and you just see some, like, really explicit Pepes, like, spent in that transaction as a part of it. And then you can, like, read the tea leaves of, like, oh, what did it mean that this one had four Pepes? So You know? Very auspicious.

42:56Rod Palmer You talk about, like, leaving this footprint or this mark in the time changing culture. But, like, I'm thinking about somebody far in the future that are looking back at the present time, and they're gonna look and they're gonna see the most important inscription, you know, that was birthed, or, you know, tracked back to this point was president Trump's meme coin. He's the president of The United States. He's the first orange pill president. He's got a big old picture of his his,

43:26Rod Palmer of his warranty here. And, like, that's the most important inscription about, like, how do you stand out from that when people look around that area and they start seeing somebody that's maybe telling the truth about the that time and place. Maybe not in conflict with whatever the biggest meme is, but, you know, just you can one of them is just gonna be noise and this one you can kinda count on to be the truth of what was going on. So I think, you know, what you're talking about is kind of like a it's sort of a deeply philosophical question about how we decide on truth in general. Like, that's why I said earlier

44:03Erin Redwing that, you know, the the winners write history is, like, that's kind of the story of history. It's, like, we don't really know what happened. We know a narrative that dominated that that's sort of our canonical narrative. And I think, like, if you look at inscriptions that way and you think of yourself as, like, an inscription archeologist in the future, like, there's gonna be some weird sort of archaeology PhD students that are trying to understand, like,

44:30Erin Redwing who was the real Trump. So, for example, if you look, at the first inscriptions, inscription 30, which is, like, very, very early on, is an image of Casey ordinals dressed as Trump, which is the first image of Trump inscribed on Bitcoin. So I'm kind of curious if they're gonna think that Trump created ordinals, or, like, Casey was Trump, you know? Because, like, if you're just basing it off of, like, the historical record,

44:57Erin Redwing that is the first image of Trump on Bitcoin. They're gonna blame they're gonna blame whatever Trump does on Casey. It's gonna be Casey's fault. Yeah. And he might deserve it, you know? So Right. It it could all be fair in the end.

45:10Richard Greaser So just a hypothetical. So somebody gets into ordinals, and they go to their Bitcoin meetup, and they start talking about ordinals, and the meetup organizer tells them that they're gay. How do you suggest people deal with that that type of stigma towards them? That Right. There's

45:30Rod Palmer there's a lot of people that think you have to be liberal or you have to be a Democrat to be into ordinals. And that's you're saying it's not true.

45:38Erin Redwing No. Definitely not. I mean, crypto in general is, like, so I mean, part of what I like about crypto is there's just, like, this Wild West feeling to it. I mean, Bitcoin is in in a lot of ways, Bitcoin is a lot more puritanical than the rest of crypto. And, by the way, I know I'm speaking fondly of crypto. I genuinely believe everything that's not Bitcoin is either a literal intentional or unintentional scam. Like, I am, by all accounts, a Bitcoin maxi. But, like, I can at least observe things that the culture does right, that Bitcoin maximalism does wrong, which you guys probably do all the time because there's so much fucking wrong with Bitcoin max maxi culture. But, like, in general,

46:17Erin Redwing like, ordinals people, I would say the vibe of ordinals people versus Bitcoin people is ordinals people are usually more, techie nerds that are trying to have fun on the computer. So, like, ordinals people know how Bitcoin works better than most Bitcoin maxis. Ordinal transactions made up the majority of transactions on the Bitcoin network in 2024. So if you look at, like, who's actually using Bitcoin, who's experimenting with Bitcoin, who's learning the ways that Bitcoin,

46:47Erin Redwing needs to improve, for example, it's it's Ordinals people. It's not Bitcoin Maxis that are DCA ing through Swan and, like, not ever doing anything with their Bitcoin. So to me, it's like, yeah. Okay. If if you go to a Bitcoin maxi meet up and you say you're into ordinals, they're probably gonna shit talk you, but, like, they know so much less about Bitcoin than you do, probably. So I don't know. I feel like, honestly, Bitcoin maxis have a lot to learn from Ordinal's people, and I wish that they I wish that they were more curious about Bitcoin. You know what I mean? Like, I think it's interesting.

47:19Rod Palmer I think people come down to the realization here that the the two people who know Bitcoin the best are, like you said, the ordinals people and feds. And people have to make a decision. Do they wanna be an ordinals person or do they wanna be a fed? Because it seems like that's the choice you have to make. And a lot of people were not prepared to to make that choice. But I don't know. That's how I see it. You have to hit that fork in the road.

47:45Erin Redwing Yeah. It's very true, honestly. Like, you either have to be like a like a weird techie degen who's just, like, trying to, like, use Bitcoin as an interesting tech thing and not think too much about, Bitcoin as money in a way, even though, of course, like, money is a major driver behind the ordinals ecosystem as well. Or you have to be like, no. Bitcoin is an inert object. It's literally a battery, and, we can use this to, like, lock down warfare because we'll just fight on the blockchain instead of having drone bombs or whatever. Like, it's it's yeah. It's it's a little bit,

48:19Erin Redwing I mean, yeah, I would much rather be an ordinals person in that in that case. Right. And it it's like,

48:24Rod Palmer at the end of the day, both the fads and the ordinals people are ultimately finding creative ways and new and creative ways to do money laundering. So it's like you're gonna go have you're gonna have to launder money. You're either gonna have to launder money for the CIA, or you're gonna, you know, be able to make some memes. You know? You're gonna have to trade rare Pepes.

48:43Erin Redwing Which one is worse? The rarest, dankest Pepes, and you're gonna have to huddle those dank Pepes. You have to climb your way to the top. Yeah.

48:50Richard Greaser Yeah. Has has Jason has Jason Lowry ever talked about the software implications of, meme warfare through using inscriptions on the blockchain? Like, do we we've even seen the meme warfare ramp

49:05Richard Greaser up between China and The US recently, but we could be looking at the like, you were talking about China, US Bitcoin transactions. We could be seeing things like The US could be sending in descriptions of Winnie the Pooh to China. And could that that type of, psychological

49:26Richard Greaser warfare, so to say, actually increase trade tensions and and geopolit cause a geopolitical. Could Winnie the Pooh in in inscription really bring us to the brink?

49:37Erin Redwing Yeah. I've always thought that it would be an interesting inscription project to, like, make politically inflammatory content in inscriptions and then send it to all the OFAC, addresses. You know, like, there's, there's Bitcoin addresses that are associated with, like, Hamas. Right? Like, you could send them, like, a free Palestine thing or, like, a pro Israel thing. I don't know. You know, whatever kind of trolling sentiment you wanna make. Shenobi. Shenobi is always sending stuff to to Hamas. Right. Yeah. I'm I'm sure he is.

50:05Erin Redwing So, yeah, I feel like there's kind of a lot of potential because Bitcoin is this, like, pseudonymous network where you can kind of identify, like, you can identify whales. You know? You can identify, like, certain activity that looks a certain way and kind of figure out, like, oh, it's this group, or it's happening in this time zone probably, so it's probably someone in this country. Like, I feel like there's kind of an interesting way that if you were really like a like a mempool detective, you could start identifying, like, interesting addresses and, like, send them weird inscriptions to troll them. I mean a very basic way of doing this, like if you're concerned about, like, sending Bitcoin to OFAC addresses, and like getting yourself on a watch list, would be to, like, deposit inflammatory inscriptions into Binance or something like that. Like in the case of of China. Like, go to a Chinese exchange

50:52Erin Redwing and deposit, Winnie the Pooh inscriptions such that that's, like, now floating around in their, like, total Bitcoin. And so then maybe they accidentally, like, give that to someone as a withdrawal, and then, like, the CCP gets mad at them. Right? So you kinda could set people up.

51:08Rod Palmer Or you could, like, also have somebody in the company who you there's, like, an inscription. It's, like, the the canary on a website. And if they, like, send that out from, like, the the company's wallet, like, you know, like, the company's been coughing once. They can send us a signal. So we talk about on here all the time and we bemo it that the revolution will not have good UX. The user experience sucks when you're at the edge of the entropy, when you're at the edge of the frontier. And it's almost like you're saying,

51:41Rod Palmer we, we know that this blockchain data should be very valuable, like with all this transaction data going on, but it's hard, it's hard to reason about it. But if we like using scripts, they can improve the user experience. They can teach you to like find patterns. It's only like astrology, like Bitcoin itself. It teaches you to find these patterns that if you can see it here, you can extrapolate it or you can notice it elsewhere and you can start to put things together. You're increasing the user experience, because obviously the the the block data is not in high demand right now. So there's a lot of,

52:16Rod Palmer you know, cheap space to build on to for builders to make a user experience.

52:21Erin Redwing I Why do you I'm curious your statement about, the revolution will not have good UX because this is, like, the bane of my existence. Why do you think that is? Do you think that's do you have opinions on it? Do you think it's morally right or wrong, or you just sort of observing it to be a natural law? We're just we're sick and tired. We're Bitcoin podcasters, and we're sick and tired of

52:42Rod Palmer all these companies and all you know, they have bad user experience. The podcast, apps, they don't listen to us. They don't they all listen to the users. It's buggy. You know, the lightning sucks. It doesn't work. You know, you you have to watch listen to forty hours of BTC sessions, tutorials, just to be able to run a lightning node. And it's it's tough. It should be you should just be able to get an orange build and just not have to do any work, not to have to think. You should just be able to do everything instantly.

53:15Erin Redwing And Bitcoin should just work like that. And you should have to think about it. I totally agree. It's crazy to me. We did an episode of our podcast where we we reviewed Noster, and we were just, like, looking at a couple. I think we used Domus or maybe Primal or maybe we use both. But I I think on one of them or maybe both of them, the search bar was fake. Like, you went to search something and the search bar wasn't actually searching. It was just like a cosmetic detail. And I was like, how the fuck are you gonna use something that's like Twitter where you're you're

53:46Erin Redwing you just started a new account. You're like, okay. I would really like to follow Michael say Sailor and Corey Clipston on Nostr. Right? And you can't even fucking look those people up because the search bar isn't real. Like, what the fuck? And we complained about it. And then, who's the Nostr guy? I can't remember. Jeff. Yes. Yeah. And then he complained about it on Nostr, and he was like, oh, these people from outside our ecosystem, they don't really care about us. They don't listen to the and I'm like, bro, I'm a fucking Maxie too. Like, I want your product to be better. Of course, they would say, it's not a product. It's an open source protocol. And it's like, okay. Great, guys. It's still gonna fucking fail if it has a bad user experience. And then You Primal fixed the search bar. I disagree. Fixed it. I disagree. You disagree. Yeah. No. I You love the you love the bad UX. Yeah. You're

54:34Richard Greaser into it. It it's great for my marriage because my wife, she's the technical one. She's the one that's always teaching me how to use these products and doodads and whatever, and it's great. It's like it it's instead of going on dates, she she figures out how to troubleshoot shoot Noster for me. But, Right. I think the bad UX is important. I think it's important, and this is where the term the revolution won't have good UX is because it filters out all the casuals. And one of the great things about Nostr

55:04Richard Greaser is the only people that are there are the hard most hardcore orange shells. Those are the only people that are there because they're the only ones that are willing to do the proof of work to actually figure out how to use that app.

55:16Erin Redwing Right. And Yeah. And the It's very important stuff. You know, we should make sure that, like, no one ever fucking uses Bitcoin except us DCA ing at Swan.

55:26Rod Palmer Will there be no help? Also, the problem is that, to have a good user experience to build a good user experience, you have to know your users. You have to know your customers. And what's the one thing that everybody, you know, is avoiding is KYC. But, like, if you want good user experience, you have to give up. You have to make that trade off. You have to let them know about you. So if you you can see how quickly it can devolve, but,

55:57Rod Palmer also it's like if you wanna be sovereign or whatever, you gotta deal with bad UX. It's it's good for the economy. It's good for the Bitcoin economy because

56:06Richard Greaser as a company, if you have a bad UX, you need a bunch of customer support people working for you. And so you're employing people to teach people how to use your product that has bad UX. And you're creating jobs. You're creating jobs in a time where there's there's not as many jobs as there could be or should be. Right. And it's you're you're providing more value to society.

56:29Rod Palmer It's like a complicated tax code employees a lot of lawyers. And it's like lawyers are the backbone of the economy.

56:36Erin Redwing Indeed. I mean, I think, I think a lot of people who are devs in the Bitcoin space that are building Bitcoin products, they all, in their own way, think that they're Satoshi. And so they think, build it and they will come. I don't need to make it anything that it isn't. If anything, you know, it just shows how much I'm, like, my Well, I'm calling to have the same way to do it. It's it's I think it's a really negative like, I I think okay. Obviously, I'm not averse to a spiritual narrative around Satoshi or Bitcoin. Satoshi is, like, the immaculate conception of Bitcoin. It's a beautiful story, and it's something that, like, really sets Bitcoin apart from every other cryptocurrency that's just like a a company with a CEO and, like, an undred unregistered security.

57:20Erin Redwing Right? So I think, like, having reverence for Satoshi and wanting to, like, live like Satoshi in some ways is a beautiful thing. But if you wanna make the biblical narrative, you're not Satoshi. You're like a like, who are the guys like John, Paul, whatever? The guys who actually, like, wrote the bible. Right? Like, you're like the disciples of Satoshi. You're not Satoshi himself. So you can be inspired by Satoshi, but, like, Jesus didn't write the Bible. Right? Like, someone had to, like, translate those ideas for the masses. And I think, like, that should be your goal if you're trying to be, like, a disciple of Satoshi is, like, figure out how Satoshi's ideas or principles or Bitcoin's ideas and principles can be translated to a mass audience. But I I honestly think all these people, they just wanna be Jesus themselves. You know what I mean? Like, they don't want to think of themselves as lower. They wanna think of themselves

58:09Erin Redwing in that tier of of developer, creator, immaculate conception, anon. Right?

58:17Rod Palmer Or Robert Breedlove. Yeah.

58:19Erin Redwing Yeah.

58:20Richard Greaser Well, I Robert I mean, one of my favorite sayings is we're we're all Peter Todd.

58:25Erin Redwing We can all be We are all Peter Todd. Yeah. It's it's really beautiful. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, ordinals like, the interesting thing that happened with ordinals when it popped off and still is happening now is, like, there's so much money in crypto. Right? Like, part of the problem that Bitcoin companies have is that, like, if you're a VC, what's the point in investing in a Bitcoin company when you could just buy Bitcoin? Like, it's very hard for a company to beat the rate of return on just, like, literally holding Bitcoin. If you pump and dump a token, you can and you're an insider that has, like, first allocation,

59:01Erin Redwing you can beat the rate of return on Bitcoin. But if you're just like a Bitcoin company that's creating a service for Bitcoin, I find that a lot of Bitcoin VCs, they basically do it because they love Bitcoin. You know? They're like, oh, I wanna invest in the Bitcoin economy because I think it's good for the world. Like, Jack Dorsey is a great example of this. They're not people that are, like, making a ton of money usually, and they're not doing it because they think they're gonna they're not doing it for the financial incentive, which is, like, by the way, what Bitcoin is supposed to be based on. That that is that is huge. One of the first things people do when they they fall in love with Bitcoin and then they make poor and, you know, poor financial decisions.

59:36Rod Palmer They whether it's the timing or just they don't know what they're doing. They're like, some people will just stay mooing about Bitcoin and they go out and they buy a a thousand bid access. And there is not ready to deal with a thousand bid access and it ends up just being a huge waste of money. Well that the same thing if you have a lot of money you just are like ten thirty one. Matt Odell and Marty, I don't think they ever ever invested in a profitable company but they keep doing it. And you just you just you you try to learn as you go.

1:00:06Erin Redwing But if you're a VC in Bitcoin and you've already sort of decided that you don't care about making a return on your investment because you're just trying to support the Bitcoin ecosystem, then you don't care that it's a bad UX. You don't care about making the product better for onboarding users. It's really just about, like, showing up to a podcast, episode or showing up to a conference and speaking on a stage and being like, I'm really supporting the Bitcoin builders. You know? I love the developers that are working on a very important freedom technology. You know what I mean? Like, it's it's more about the way that it makes you feel than it is about making money, like, from the get go. And so there's just less pressure to build a product that actually succeeds. Something that's cool about ordinals is, like, the people that are investing in in ordinals companies are crypto VCs, so they do care about making a profit. And, like, you can drop, like, a rune token or something, but, like, honestly, like, in Bitcoin world and ordinals world, it's not the same, like, pump and dump kind of, like, quick money environment that you get on Solana or Ethereum.

1:01:05Erin Redwing So ultimately, a lot of them are actually, like, trying to do things like, oh, help people in scribe and then take a fee on that. And so they, like, have to have a good user interface. Like, a lot of ordinals wallets are better user experiences than Bitcoin wallets, and they function as Bitcoin wallets. Like, you don't have to have them on ordinals mode. You know? The ordinals mode is, like, the hard mode for the the wallet itself. So, like, it's kind of interesting. Like, I think there's quite a bit use ordinals mode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I I think, like I don't know. The ordinals innovation space is, like, very strangely, like, it has, like, a better financial incentive or it's more honest maybe about its financial incentive. And so, like, I'm much more optimistic about ordinals builders kind of doing good Bitcoin work. Also, because as I said, they're the ones that are actually, like,

1:01:55Erin Redwing really thinking about Bitcoin transactions and, like, really getting in there and doing a lot of stuff with Bitcoin. They're not just kind of trying to create a DCA product. Yeah. Getting feedback about their transactions, getting feedback about the way they use Bitcoin. Because every way every use usage or use case for Bitcoin,

1:02:14Rod Palmer is gonna be somewhere ranked in market efficiency every single time. It's like a vector. And the more feedback you get, the more, it's almost you can start vibe coding on Bitcoin. And that's because there are a lot of people, but

1:02:28Erin Redwing it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. I have honestly a lot of thoughts on, social media also because I I came from the the Tik Tok world, like, in terms of content creation originally. So I'm like a Tik Tok Maxi. I really feel like

1:02:45Erin Redwing the most important thing that a social media needs to be is, like, attention grabbing and making a user want to use it. Like, users don't actually care about being sovereign. They don't care about privacy. They don't care about their data at all. They only care about being amused and consuming. And so, like, I really think, like, the Chinese have figured it out. And, like, if we ban TikTok or try to fight against that, like, we're really just fighting against excellence at the end of the day. And, like, we need to just do better. Like, Nasser needs to do better. Twitter needs to do better. Instagram, everything needs to do better. Otherwise, like, the Chinese know how to create a docile population, and they're gonna beat us.

1:03:24Rod Palmer I mean, TikTok last summer, TikTok picked a random, somewhat attractive, average Tennessee hillbilly rural girl, and made her the most famous meme in the world as big, maybe bigger than Donald Trump, at least in that moment,

1:03:41Rod Palmer in, like, seventy two hours. That's probably a pretty good way to orange pill people. If you could get their attention on, you know, with the TikTok that important. And then everybody tried everybody. Everybody tried to attach their logo to her. Yeah. Like

1:03:58Erin Redwing it's

1:03:59Rod Palmer it's everybody trying to combine their ordinals with her.

1:04:01Erin Redwing Yeah. Exactly. Everyone was trying to get her to endorse their collection, you know? Mhmm. Yeah. It's it's it's interesting because it's like she almost was there in a way. I mean, obviously, it's like, okay, a hawk to a token. There's many skips and jump between that and and being like a Bitcoin maxi. But it's like, she's engaging with crypto. Right? Like, that's something that's, like, unheard of for TikTok influencers, generally speaking. So it's like, we're almost kind of there, but it's just like the pieces are not coming together. There's too many sociopaths in the way. Like, it's just not fully clicking.

1:04:34Rod Palmer It's like What do you think about Donald Trump? Because it seems like he is just drowning out Whether you like him or not, there's just, like, nothing that kind of is a bigger headband than what Donald Trump's doing or saying today. And, sometimes it's funny, but, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of important Bitcoin companies and podcasts that would like to get engagement

1:04:58Rod Palmer and be able to advertise. We could have hyper Bitcoinization faster if we have more Bitcoin podcasts, and Donald Trump wasn't consuming all the headlines.

1:05:07Erin Redwing Yeah. I mean, Trump is Trump is the biggest meme on the planet. Right? So when Trump launched his token, which he did at the fucking crypto inaugural ball that I was at in DC, which was insane, He basically, like, in my opinion, ended the meme coin bull run with that. He's the biggest meme. There's nothing bigger than that. And he rug the token in less than forty eight hours by launching a Melania token immediately and thinking that somehow there was an additional ruined it. Yeah. His wife ruined it. Typical. Right? Like,

1:05:38Erin Redwing somehow they thought that there was an additional $15,000,000,000 of liquidity to suck out of the market and that that wasn't just gonna go directly from Trump token to Melania token. But in any case, like, I do think that essentially what happened over the last, like, eight months is Trump kind of hijacked the bull run, the crypto bull run, the Bitcoin bull run, whatever, as his own narrative, and then he kind of destroyed it in his own way.

1:06:04Erin Redwing I mean, of course, you're seeing right now now I'm gonna sound like a real Bitcoin podcaster, but you are seeing right now a decoupling from Bitcoin and the the market right now. So I do think there's an interesting aspect of, like, Trump can do whatever he wants. Bitcoin doesn't care about you or whatever. You know? I think there is an opportunity for Bitcoin to break out on its own. But if you look at the narrative, the attention, the headlines, I really think Trump just does such a great job of capturing anything and everything, under his umbrella, and, like, using it to build his own brand. And I feel like that's what he did with Bitcoin and crypto, and then there were just enough crypto freaks that got in his ear and were, like, oh, you should launch a token. You should do this. He launched an ordinals collection actually with magic Eden. He like launched an instruction collection. So Right. You know, he's doing it all.

1:06:51Erin Redwing He's having fun on chain.

1:06:53Rod Palmer Just like in 2021, everybody gave Elon Musk credit for the God candle. And then, like, two or three months later, he rug pulled us and he was started spreading frickin' climate ESGIFA. And then Donald Trump does a say to him. We gave Donald Trump credit for the God candle way too early, and then he rug pulled us by being a meme corner. So, the we gotta stop we gotta stop give like, making people giving people credit

1:07:23Rod Palmer for the the narrative. Stop giving one person, especially Donald Trump. Like, we didn't know Elon was as retarded as he is in 2021. He we we thought he was, like, way more like the rocket, you know, scientist all the time. You did. Yeah. I had

1:07:41Rod Palmer by a you know, there was no excuse with Trump. We knew how retarded Trump was. Even if you were even if you voted for him, you're like, I don't necessarily trust him not to fuck up the bull market. Well There's but, you know Sorry. Go go on, Richard. There there's only one

1:07:55Richard Greaser politician who has any integrity in this world, and I'm throwing my hat in the ring right now. I wanna be his campaign manager for his presidential run-in 2028, and that is Dennis Porter. There's only one politician we could put our faith in, and it's Dennis.

1:08:12Erin Redwing Yeah. I agree with that. I mean, I I live in California, and I've seen, Gavin Newsom. Seems like he's starting to do his thang and gear up to a 2028 run. So, I would love to see California secede and and go, like, full states rights mode and just become, like, a sovereign nation, fifth largest economy in the world. Just, like, complete woke nightmare. But, it would be fun. So I don't know. I mean, Trump, like, I do have a certain so he's a he's a Gemini also, actually. And Geminis in general, the archetype of Geminis is that they are they're messengers

1:08:47Erin Redwing that can go between the overworld and the underworld. So that's where the phrase, like, don't shoot the messenger comes from. It's like Hermes, which is like the Gemini figure in Greek mythology, can go and deliver messages from, like, Hades in the underworld up to, like, Zeus in the overworld. And, like, some of those messages are gonna be things that you don't wanna hear. But, like, the Gemini is just the the the vessel for, like, delivering the information. Kanye's a Gemini. Trump's a Gemini. Actually, Xi Jinping is also a Gemini. Muammar Gaddafi is a Gemini. There's sort of, like, these kind of famous iconic Geminis that are just, like, they're just saying shit in a way, but it sort of, like, taps into a deeper narrative that people don't know how to articulate themselves. So I think with Trump, it's like I kind of love him for that. It's like I love that he's, like,

1:09:36Erin Redwing kind of the greatest poet of our time in a lot of ways, and, I don't I say many such cases every single day. I literally say that every single day and have for, like, over five years. Like, there's no one that's that's, like, gotten into our heads as much as Trump has, and in that way, he sort of deserves to be the mascot of of America, you know? Like, that's he's kind of earned it, you know? So He's the best memer. He's the best mimer. He's the best mimer. And it's, like, what we deserve. You know? How do people get over

1:10:06Rod Palmer Trump derangement syndrome? You got people with, like, long COVID, whether that's a literal or, you know, metaphorical condition. And you got people with Trump derangement syndrome. How do those people get over some people? Why do people have both? How do they start to deal with that?

1:10:24Erin Redwing So I think, first of all, not all of them will. And I think, you know, I I'll actually I'll give some, like, astrological context. So 2025 is a super transformative year. If you ask UFO people, they actually also point to this year separately, not for astrological reasons, but more for, like, schizophrenic alien contact reasons. But, 2025 is supposed to be this year where

1:10:47Erin Redwing the transformation is happening so fast that it either feels like heaven or like hell, depending on how how much of an accelerationist you are, basically. And I think part of that transition is, like, for people that are gripping to an old way of, like, you know, we used to have Barack Obama, and he made us look so good in front of the European Union, and he got the Nobel Peace Prize. Like, if you're still clinging to that version of reality, that version of reality is dead and gone. Okay? And it's just gonna become more painful to cling to that. So I think, ultimately, like, there's an aspect of, like, embracing

1:11:23Erin Redwing transformation and accelerationism during transformative times that I think a lot of people are just averse to doing, and it it kinda makes sense. People don't like change. A lot of people don't like change. But, ultimately, I think that's the thing is, like, it's not even that people that love Trump love Trump. They love that he's, like, doing things and changing things and, like, that there's drama and chaos, and it feels right with their idea of how the world is headed. Like, it make it's cathartic in a way. Alright. They're triggering lives. Even if that's it, it's triggering lives. Yeah. And it's like collapsing institutions. You know? Like, it's like destroying things that people feel aren't working anymore. And I'm not gonna say that's a good thing, but it feels like it's a correct thing at this time. And I would say astrologically, I that's what I would say as well. So I feel like It's justice.

1:12:09Erin Redwing Or It's yeah. It's it's just it's like the natural order or, like, the natural progress it feels. You know, the Internet has changed everything, and so, of course, like, our society is gonna go through a painful, difficult transformation with that. So for me, I think whether it's, like, Trump derangement syndrome or, like, whatever, a lot of it has to do with just, like, being willing to ride the wave. And, also, like,

1:12:36Erin Redwing for me, I feel like it's it's not having the hubris to think that I know what's gonna happen. Like, a lot of people have this idea of, like, oh, Trump's gonna do x, y, and z, or climate change is gonna do x, y, and z, and it's gonna be awful. And the reality is, like, none of us know what's gonna happen. Like, literally none of us know. And so, like, in a way, being nihilist in that in in that sort of, like, concrete form is like a sense of hubris and, like, believing that you know things that you don't really know. So I don't know. I feel like it's a little bit of like surrender in a way of just like, bro, this is crazy times. We're at the beginning. We're at the dawning of the fucking age of Aquarius. Like, of course, it's gonna feel crazy. You know? So just ride the wave. Last time this happened, we had biblical floods. You know what I mean? So it's, it's transformative times. You just kinda gotta go with it, I think.

1:13:24Erin Redwing Totally. But not everyone's gonna make it. I know that's, it's like a weird thing to say, but it's like not everyone is is meant to, like, get into that mindset. Like, some people are just gonna be like And and GMI. Not gonna make it. Very unfortunate, but it's it's, you know, not everyone becomes sovereign individuals. You know, that's like the thesis of that book. So I don't know. It's the trade off. I've got a prediction,

1:13:49Richard Greaser and I'm curious. It's based on astrology. I'm curious on your your take on this. So we're having a big shift happening. So in May, at the end of May, right before the conference. So Saturn's gonna enter Aries on, May 24, which essentially signifies people

1:14:11Richard Greaser moving more towards self sovereignty, taking life into their own hands. And so what I predict is gonna happen is this we're really gonna see a Bitcoin pump. And the reason why is, like, we we know that taking response what what actually taking responsibility into your own hands of becoming a sovereign individual. One of the first steps

1:14:33Richard Greaser in getting there is starting your own Bitcoin podcast. And I'm not sure if you're familiar with Bitcoin podcast, power law,

1:14:43Erin Redwing but it is I'm not. Please. I would love to hear about it. Well, this is my my credentialed,

1:14:48Richard Greaser price model that I came up, which is essentially the price of Bitcoin goes up with the with more as there's more Bitcoin podcasts out there, the price goes up more because more people hear about it.

1:15:03Erin Redwing Right. We are the future. Yeah. We're driving Bitcoin adoption.

1:15:07Richard Greaser So I think what we're gonna start seeing on May 24 going into the conference is people are gonna really start considering starting Bitcoin conference or podcast. That that's what Saturn Saturn entering Aries means.

1:15:22Erin Redwing What are your thoughts on all of that? I think that's beautiful. I mean, I would say so Saturn requires hard work. I mean, you guys know very well how hard it is to be Bitcoin podcasters, and I think a lot of people underestimate the work that it takes. So I think you're absolutely right. There's this, this structural push towards sovereignty and and maybe individual expression would be another form that that could take. And so to me, it makes sense that people would start getting, you know, if they're really passionate about Bitcoin, they'd be like, how can I help the revolution? Like, let me get on and and have a podcast with my friend. But the the warning there is, like,

1:15:57Erin Redwing it's gonna take a lot of work. You know, you have to, like, every week or every other week or whatever, you gotta sit down. You gotta record. You gotta edit the episode. You gotta promote the episode. Like, it's, try being an influencer for a day. You know what I mean? It's it's not all it's cracked up to be. So I think you're right, but I think Saturn's not gonna take it easy on on these new Bitcoin podcasters that come in to compete with us, the old guard, you know, of Bitcoin podcasting. Yeah. They're gonna get it now. Right. Like, I'm I'm, I'm beautifully shocked by your Saturn and Aries, insight because it really is, like, as of, like, May or sorry, as of April 21, which we're recording this on the twenty third. I don't know when this is posted. But as of April 21, we're, like, really out of the the really difficult time that was March and April.

1:16:43Erin Redwing I have been looking to q one twenty twenty five astrology since 2022. Like, in 2022, I looked at the astrology of q one twenty twenty five, and I was like, oh, this is gonna be bad. Like, Like, this is not gonna be good. There's gonna be some fucking chaos going on. And it actually targets Trump's chart very directly. So I remember in 2022, if you if you remember, like, there was a period during the Biden presidency where Trump was, like, totally deplatformed, and, like, it didn't seem possible for him to come back. And I remember I looked at his astrology of 2025. Trump was born on an eclipse, by the way. So he was born on eclipse. There's an eclipse that happened in March 2025 that, like, exactly squared his natal eclipse, so it created this big x over his chart.

1:17:23Erin Redwing And I literally looked at that, and I was like, oh, he obviously has to be president 2025. There's no fucking way that he's not really, like, major major figure. And so I kinda started being like, yeah, I know it seems like he's out right now. Like, he's totally deplatformed. He's just, like, chilling on truth social, but, like, I think he's gonna come back. And, basically, like, the astrology of particularly March, but, like, into early April is essentially, like, that era of time is what Trump will be known for as a president. So we don't exactly know how things like tariffs or whatever or, honestly, like, how many fucking executive orders did he sign that, like, we don't even know what's in them? He literally just sat at a desk and did stand up for, like, two weeks straight, just like signing documents. So I think there's a lot of fallout that's gonna come from this time that we don't even really know, like, what it's gonna be. But May is super positive astrologically, like, we're kind of on the upswing. July is, like, one of the nicest months that we've had a long time. And then 2026,

1:18:22Erin Redwing I think, will be the best astrological year since I've been in a a practicing astrologer, which is, like, eight or nine years now. So, I think, like, we're not headed towards, like, doom and gloom. I think we're headed towards some sort of, major transformative times that for those of us that are, like, terminally online

1:18:41Erin Redwing and looking a little bit for the old institutions to fall, that will feel actually quite cathartic and in line with what we think will happen if we believe in, like, a hyper Bitcoinization narrative or whatever. That doesn't mean it's gonna be, like, easy. Doesn't mean it's gonna be, like, smooth sailing for everyone. But, I don't know. If you're a Bitcoiner, I do think part of you probably recognizes that collapse is part of that. So Yeah.

1:19:07Rod Palmer You know? This is why this is why Marty Bent says that this time is different. Marty Bent has been getting into astrology, he's been listening to Halmani, and he's been reading his horoscope. And this is this is why Marty knows this time is different. And it it feels I

1:19:26Rod Palmer I mean, we both have been talking about this. What you were talking about, like, somewhere at in the depths of Donald Trump's problems in 2022, we were like, whatever is gonna happen is he's gonna win. Like, they're gonna have a primary. He's gonna fucking steamroll a bit. Like, I don't know. I didn't have no tie to astrology here. But I just the you it was just like, if you're on the right vibe, you could feel that, I don't know, energy. And it just kinda kept being right. And that's why we started saying, like, Bitcoin has already won. Donald Trump has already won. Like, we were we were saying this last summer. It's like, this is how it's going. You can if you just pay attention, you can

1:20:04Rod Palmer you you ride that wave. And astrology apparently matches up with that too. I thought it was the fourth turning. I just read the fourth turning, so I was just reading kinda like a nerdy history buffs, like astrology.

1:20:18Erin Redwing And that's how how I connected to it. Astrology for boys. Yeah. No. I mean, that's beautifully said because I think ultimately, you know, astrology is my preferred tool. I also do tarot, but I would say I'm like tarot is is like a nice practice for me, but I'm more of like an astrology, like, scholar or researcher. But for me, it's just like that's a form of honing my intuition that speaks to me because I probably because I came from planetary science before. So I was, like, already sort of used to thinking about, like, the cosmos and our place in the universe and whatever. But I don't think that, like, astrology is the only way of getting to these realizations. I think honestly, like, you have everything that you need inside of yourself, and if you trust your gut and you trust your intuition, you know a lot of these things already.

1:21:02Erin Redwing Actually, like, interesting, like, use case for crypto that's actually played out. I feel like Polymarket is, like, a good example of this, where Polymarket accurately predicts things so much more than polls. Right? And with Polymarket, it's just a bunch of people betting on their gut. Like, if you look at the the poll for will Donald Trump or Kamala Harris win the election, it basically tracks exactly how I felt. Where, like, Trump was, like, probably gonna win, probably gonna win. Like, Biden was kind of there, and it's, like, Biden shot down when he dropped out or whatever. And then Trump got shot, and then it was like, shoot up. And then there were a couple weeks in September where it felt like maybe Kamala would win. It felt a little bit like, oh, maybe no one cares about that, but then he, like, came back. I remember all these cycles. Exactly. Yeah. Like, I felt that way at that time, and I think a lot of people felt that way. And so, like, it's kinda cool. Like, I mean, actually, PolyMarkets is like an absolute clusterfuck behind the scenes, and it, like, doesn't work at all from, like, a technical crypto standpoint, which is the story of every fucking crypto.

1:22:01Erin Redwing But, like, as a tool for, like, understanding what's gonna happen in the world, it's essentially an aggregate of, like, everyone's gut feeling that they're willing to put money on. And, like, it's yeah. I don't think you need astrology or, religion or fucking like reading tea leaves or whatever to get these insights. I I think you have them inside of you, and it's just a matter of like being a noticer, you know? Right. I'm noticing. We talk about that all the time and noticing. And,

1:22:29Rod Palmer the last thing on the the Trump thing is just, like, you're talking about Polymarket. You're talking about how that feeling. And then you kinda get up to the election, and everybody like, the age of conspiracies, everybody's thinking, maybe 2020 was stolen. Maybe they are scanning like are they gonna try to stop it like they've tried to if whatever day means but quote unquote day they tried to kill him twice so like what the you know are they gonna stop the ballot boxes surveys thinking about that and the election day was like a cathartic moment whether you liked him or not. Like, I knew people who were liking do not like Trump, but the cathartic moment of just he won.

1:23:05Erin Redwing It played out like it felt like it should have played out. It wasn't Yeah. Everything else is gonna sigh up, and this one didn't end up like a sigh up. That's how I felt at the time. I mean, I I actually don't even know if I've ever said this publicly and, like, whatever if I if it's clipped. But, like, I voted for Trump because I'm a fucking California voter, so my vote doesn't fucking matter. But I literally voted for him because I just I wanted to bet that I would be right. You know what I mean? Like, I felt like I'm recognizing and acknowledging that this moment is happening, and to deny myself that truth feels like denying like a an essential truth in a way. Like, I'm not I mean, I was never gonna vote for fucking Kamala Harris. It was like either not vote or like vote third party for whatever. You know what I mean? Like, I just felt like for my own sanity, I needed to just be like, no. Like, this is what's happening. And then, yeah, you're totally right. It just played out, and I think

1:23:58Erin Redwing Bitcoiners in general are getting a lot of that catharsis right now. The the main difference with Bitcoiners that I think is causing a little bit of existential strife in the Maxi community is, we all thought that there was gonna be this and then they fight you phase that seems like it's not happening now. I kind of get that now. Like, if you look at it from, like, an incentives perspective, it's like, yeah, everyone is incentivized to participate in number go up technology. Right? Like,

1:24:25Erin Redwing politicians in The United States are not actually interested in the success of The United States. They're interested in their own personal net worth. I think, like, the age of the neo cons is kind of behind us. That doesn't mean that none of them are, like, conniving or, like, working in intelligence, like, agencies that have all their own, like, motives. But in general, politicians are bought, you know? And so when a politician starts accepting Bitcoin donations and they start getting Bitcoin, all of a sudden they're invested and number go up. Right? So it's like it's essentially like you're cutting out the middleman of the lobbyist that shows up to the politician's office and says, hey, you should favor x pharmaceutical company, because we're gonna donate a lot of money to your campaign. Like, all you have to do to get a politician to care about Bitcoin is, like, send them Bitcoin, and all of a sudden they care about Bitcoin. And they probably care about Bitcoin more than they care about The United States, because they don't really give a fuck about The United States in the first place. So

1:25:20Erin Redwing I feel like looking back on it, it makes sense to me that the incentive structure of Bitcoin is just so fucking strong that, of course, the institution, nation states, politicians, like, whatever are gonna adopt it. I feel like the fear now is, like, is Bitcoin effectively a Trojan horse for their own demise, or does it somehow get co opted in a way that that makes it less than the original vision that maybe, like, Bitcoiners had for it? I don't know. Well, this this is why it's so important to listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast a week, because I think that's more

1:25:52Richard Greaser that's more of an individual choice than it is a collective choice of, like, it's an all or nothing because it's kind of up to you on whether you become a, you know, a cock or not at the end of the day or whether you, actually strive to be sovereign or or improve your life or you know, like, I think this is one of the the problems is everybody's so focused on everybody else. Like, you know,

1:26:18Richard Greaser they're so focused on getting permission for the things that they're doing. Like, you you should just smoke cigarettes whether people want you to or not. You should make that decision for yourself at the end of the day. And in the same way, you should use Bitcoin in the same way. And, I don't really think it's an all or nothing. Like, you know, that's one of the great things about it. It is, like, you know, on a weekly, daily almost daily basis, like, I go and I go to my cigarette dealer and, you know, we do non KYC cigarette transactions, even though, you know, the government wants me to report capital gains on it and,

1:26:55Richard Greaser you know, buy from a KYC platform. I just reject the the premise of all of that.

1:26:60Rod Palmer Then sometimes it's just a little win. Sometimes it's just buying a non KYC cigarette and smoke. It's just that little act of defiance

1:27:08Erin Redwing that keeps you going just like MGU. All all of ordinals, like every ordinals marketplace is like a non custodial decentralized marketplace. So there is kind of a weird, JPEG circular economy that has formed in ordinals, which is beautiful. I mean, it's cool, like, you know, I I have a company and do some stuff in ordinals. Not like a ton. I kinda just do what's, like, interesting and fun to me, podcasting and conferences among a couple other things. And I pay everyone in Bitcoin. I pay my podcast editor in Bitcoin. I get paid in Bitcoin. So it is interesting, like, when you start living on a Bitcoin standard in your own way, like, the world starts forming around you. I have the benefit that I live in the Bay Area, so there's already a little bit of, like, a techie vibe here. People are more kind of aligned with that. I know Bitcoiners would think for some reason, they they think that Bitcoin means, like, being a carnivore and, like, owning guns. But in actuality, like, getting paid in Bitcoin and interacting with Bitcoin, probably you're just like a computer nerd who, like, actually is relatively apolitical,

1:28:10Erin Redwing and probably you live in the San Francisco Bay Area, or some other, like, tech metropolis. So I do think, like, I'm fortunate that at this point, I am so surrounded in my real life by, like, what I would call, like, genuine Bitcoin maxis that are, like, walking the walking the walk. But I don't know. Like, I definitely still have friends that are, like, locked in the matrix that I don't think will ever get out. And, like, every time I see them, they're just like, oh, man. You told me to buy Bitcoin five years ago. If only I had listened. And I'm like, bro, it's never too late to start saving. You know? Like, don't think of it as an investment. Like, it's never too late to just, like, you know, get a little I try to like, if people can't sit for me, I try to, like, pay them in Bitcoin. I try to force them to, like, let me pay them in Bitcoin.

1:28:55Erin Redwing But I don't know. Something Yeah. It is little things. It's little things that make you feel, like, you're living your own version of the sovereign individual story in your own way, you know?

1:29:04Rod Palmer Yeah. And some people will they will like your ideas. They will like your perspective on life, but they they just feel like they need to get permission from somebody else to actually, follow it themselves. But, yeah. Richard, are you about ready to get into the found this? Or do you have any final questions?

1:29:25Richard Greaser Well, I just wanted to say real quick. If anybody was paying attention to the astrology, they would have seen that Kamala Harris was her chart was just as retarded as she appeared and that she had no chance of winning against Trump. And you probably could have made a lot of money betting on PolyMarkets just based off of that alone.

1:29:43Erin Redwing It's true. It's true. I mean, ultimately, Trump's chart couldn't lose. Like, it's just the truth of it. And there were many, many astrologers that were very upset by this because a lot of astrologers are, like, Libtards. Right? So they can't deny what's happening in the stars, but they did not like to see it.

1:30:03Richard Greaser Yeah. The cope was real. Yeah. So, every week, what we do, with, our guests is we go through and we read the fountain boost from the week before, which is always an interesting experience. You're following up, John Seth, which was a, you know, pretty big episode. But, it sounds like you so I asked before we go into this, I asked the guest two questions,

1:30:29Richard Greaser two very important questions. So you kinda answered this before we started recording, but did you listen to last week's show?

1:30:38Erin Redwing I listened to half of it, so I'm not gonna know half. And also, I didn't this is so bad. Like, I know who Joon Seth is. Like, I know it's a name, but, like, I have no idea. Like, it's not my realm. So it was out of my, midst a little bit.

1:30:53Richard Greaser Yeah. He's a he's an OG Bitcoin podcaster. He did, Bitcoin uncensored, which is

1:30:59Erin Redwing very important. Been told how money has Bitcoin uncensored vibes, I think. Did he have some big falling out with someone about, like, a token or something? Is that that podcast? I don't know what the falling out was, but I think there was a split with Chris DeRose. Podcast broke up or something. And I've been told many times that Hell Money podcast has, like, pre Bitcoin uncensored, split vibe. So I don't know what will cause the split of Hell Money podcast, but it does seem, like, auspicious that that happened to the last, Bitcoin podcast that had our vibe. Have you charted this out? I mean, ultimately, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on on that. You don't wanna know your chart compared to somebody else's. Unfortunately, it's like I'm too I'm I'm too in it, so I do know. But I I think I've managed things effectively such that, if if things really hit the fan, like, we would figure it out.

1:31:49Erin Redwing But how many podcasts could go up in flames at any time? There's really no way to know. You know, it's a Wow. It's It's an explosive, cutting edge, Brooklyn podcast.

1:31:58Rod Palmer It's hard to go on when you know it's doomed. But Mhmm. Mhmm. You know? You have to you have to find out you have to find out if it's, if the chart's gonna play out. You gotta know you gotta have that cathartic moment whether it's good or bad. Totally.

1:32:13Erin Redwing Wait. What was question number two? There was one question, but there's a second question too. Yeah. Are you Jewish? No. I'm not, unfortunately.

1:32:22Richard Greaser Do you ever wish that you were Jewish?

1:32:24Erin Redwing Yeah. I do. Like, kind of often.

1:32:27Richard Greaser If you were Jewish, what type of Jew would you be?

1:32:32Erin Redwing I'd probably be, like, New York Ashkenazi. Like, I think that I would do really well in a community of, like, like, I love Shabbat dinner. Shabbat I actually host Shabbat dinners, like, with my family even though they're not Jewish because I just think it's such a good tradition, and my parents are just like, okay. Like, I guess we're doing this. So I think, like, I would be like a like a cultural Jew that would really, like, engage with a lot of the, like, traditions and, like, the fun activities. Yeah. I really love, like, cultural Jewish activities. So I feel like I'd be very, very involved. I'd also be really into musical theater, which, like, I am now. So I'd be, like, a musical theater Jew as well.

1:33:11Rod Palmer I'm super I'm super binary. I I'd break it down. I'd rather would I rather be a New York Wall Street Jew or a Los Angeles, California Hollywood Jew? And I would prefer to be a Wall I would wanna be a Wall Street Jew at the end of the day. I like the weather in Los Angeles. I like the weather in Southern California, but it's just a little too there's not enough macro out there for me.

1:33:33Richard Greaser If I was to which, like, I I kinda, like, relate to being Jewish through osmosis having worked in the media for so long, but, like, I would pretty much be exactly how I am now.

1:33:45Erin Redwing Yeah. I think the same. I mean, I feel like I already I mean, I have so many Jewish friends. I think I really am already, like, embodying a lot of the important aspects of being Jewish, which are mostly, like, cultural and social, not really, like, religious or moral in any way. So, yeah, I do get kinda jealous of them. I do wish that I had, like, some sort of, like, community like that that, like, they don't care if you believe anything. You know what I mean? Like, it's not really about, like,

1:34:10Rod Palmer like, you can be an atheist Jew. It's totally fine. Like, they don't give a fuck. So You just have to be able to pay your taxes. You just gotta yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we talk about here. As long as you can afford to pay your taxes, it's it's it's all good. You can be a part of the community.

1:34:24Erin Redwing Totally. So it's like I don't know. There's something very, like, beautiful and easy about that that I never had because I didn't have, like, a cultural identity that was so tight knit like that. You know? It's it's a beautiful thing.

1:34:35Richard Greaser Very cool. Well, we we need to get a Jew on the show because we've had a few non Jews and Casey's Jewish. Casey's Jewish. You can have him on the show. Oh, wow. Casey Ortiz is Jewish. Yeah. It starts putting the pieces together, doesn't it? You know, when when you learn that detail.

1:34:49Rod Palmer Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it would be nothing would piss off Todd Kampf more than interviewing Casey Ordinals. So that'd be wonderful.

1:34:57Erin Redwing Casey's something I something I don't understand, like, people haven't connected the dots. Like, Jeremy Rubin, Udi Wertheimer, Casey Rodemore, all Jewish. Like, I've not seen people point this out,

1:35:07Rod Palmer but I do think this is kind of an important this out every day on Oh, okay. You gotta send me the stuff. Twitter for sure. I'm trying to point it out to people, but but it's, like, you know They some of these guys in the Bitcoin and the Axie world, it's they notice that you the second the Jew show, like, walks in the door. They they got their they got they ironically, they have better, you know, sniffers

1:35:28Richard Greaser than the cheese they're they're calling out. The thing about Oodi, though, is even the Jews don't like him.

1:35:34Erin Redwing Well, that's that's part of it. You know? It's like there's always antagonism within the Jewish community as well. Yeah. It's it's yeah. You should have Casey on. I mean, why not? You know, you need that that cultural perspective. He does the whole, like, the, like, wrapping the box thing. You know? What does it call it to fill in or something? Like, he does the he he does the wrapping the box thing on the arm, which I've I've told him before is, like, Saturn cube devil worship, but he does not listen. So it is what it is.

1:36:02Richard Greaser Very interesting. Yeah. It would be good to have Casey on the show at some point. What what was the I just blanked on when I was gonna

1:36:12Erin Redwing You weren't gonna keep going down the the Jewish line of questioning? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One one last question

1:36:18Richard Greaser about the Jews. So, yeah. So, like, Casey is the descendant of the people that killed Jesus, and he's the father of ordinals. And do you think that is the crux of the

1:36:32Richard Greaser conflict between Luke and and Casey is Luke looks at Casey and says, you're the guy your your ancestors killed Jesus.

1:36:44Erin Redwing Mhmm. I don't like it. That's a really interesting point. I mean, Luke also is set of a cantus, so he has problems even with, like, the normie Catholic church. Right? So it's like there's, like, layers to that. I mean, I think,

1:36:58Rod Palmer I could go out of a way. Idea.

1:36:60Erin Redwing Like, in a lot of ways, like, ordinals is a natural, like, part of Bitcoin. It's like a natural way of looking at Bitcoin. And so I kinda feel like Casey is I mean, by the way, Casey is, without a doubt, the biggest maxi that I know. Like, actually committed to Bitcoin, actually knows it very well. He's the most, like, technically sophisticated Bitcoin. It's crazy. Like, you can put him against anyone, and he knows everything. It's it's insane.

1:37:29Erin Redwing The way that I think of Casey is, like, that I think ordinals is like a natural part of Bitcoin that required the right vessel to be made manifest. So, I think it's Johnson Lau or Jonathan Lau, I don't remember his name, kind of first came up with the idea of ordinals in the Bitcoin talk forum in 2012. He kinda just was like, hey, someone could do this. Like, someone could enumerate Satoshis in this way. And he just didn't do it,

1:37:55Erin Redwing probably because he had, like, a job or, like, something else to do or, like, a wife or whatever. And I think Casey was kind of just, like, the right vessel at the right time to bring ordinals to life, but I think it's always been there, and it's always been kind of stewing around. So, like, you know, I think Luke is essentially a puritanical, like, religious freak that that and that's, like, regardless of the Bitcoin aspect, like, that's just generally true. He's had. Yeah. He he talks about it. Yeah. So it's like yeah. It's part of his, like, identity very openly. So I think, like, ultimately,

1:38:31Erin Redwing like, Luke is afraid of, like, losing what he sees as, like, his ideological or, like, intellectual control or understanding of what Bitcoin is. And, like, ordinals push that in a way that doesn't compute with, like, his understanding of the world and, like, his religious fervor. So I don't know. I think, like, Casey's, like, a very,

1:38:53Erin Redwing like, he's a very astute disciple of Satoshi. He really has, like, done things in Satoshi Bitcoin Satoshi's vision. He's done it in Satoshi's vision. And I think that that's just, like, threatening for people that have a much more tyrannical spiritual view of what's going on here. You know? So, you know, it could also be that he's Jewish, I guess. But, that would be my my take.

1:39:16Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, Luke Luke the thing people have to understand about Luke is he is so autistic that he doesn't understand nuance. Everything is baked into being incredibly literal. And so I think he was one of the people that that coined that ordinals as spam, because he's he's super autistic. He had this idea around data caps on the blocks, and and

1:39:45Richard Greaser he's very stuck to that. And, you know, and, like, I I appreciate Luke's autism. His his memes, like, when he breaks out on the normie Twitter due to his autism, it's it it it's, like, one of my favorite things.

1:39:60Erin Redwing Don't always I totally agree. I totally agree. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, for him, Bitcoin's a permissionless software. You know what I mean? Like, that's, like, not, that's not in line with, like, like, you you have to permit sinful behavior on the Bitcoin network. That's just you don't have a choice. So it's, I can imagine that would be hard to reconcile with as, like, an extreme artist trad, like, set of a can test or whatever. You know? Yeah. That

1:40:27Richard Greaser I respect his right to be autistic. 100%. I have respect for people's right to

1:40:33Erin Redwing to shape their own Bitcoin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Mhmm.

1:40:37Richard Greaser Alright. Let's let's get into the bush. Yeah. Before

1:40:40Rod Palmer just I wanna ask you you you talk a lot about Casey, and I would really would like to interview him. But, boy, quick with a, you know, high level, would you recommend being on a Bitcoin podcast, you know, with with two people who are together or only with your husband and wife?

1:41:02Rod Palmer Do you think that, like, that's you know, we have a lot of listeners. They don't know they think that their wife should use their own node, like, use their husband's node. They shouldn't run their own node. They should use their husband's node. Or if they don't have a husband, they should use their father's node. Should a woman be you know, not Tianchi. But should she start a podcast with somebody other than her husband?

1:41:26Erin Redwing Yeah. That's an interesting question. I mean, I think so part of my personal advice I've been with my fiance for ten years. My fiance is not Casey, by the way. So I am the story of the, the trifling woman who started a Bitcoin podcast with another man. But I think part of the success of my relationship is that,

1:41:48Erin Redwing my fiance is pretty offline. Like, he's not on the timeline. He's not, like, engaging with Internet things. Like, I have to tell him that things happen in the world. He's just, like, doing his thing. And I think that that's a really nice dynamic for a relationship to have. I don't think it's ideal for both people to be terminally online. I think it, like, causes a lot of insecurity. It also means that, like, you're mediating your relationship through, like, your relationship with your husband or wife's relationship with social media, which is often not healthy in the first place.

1:42:23Erin Redwing So I think in general, it's better to have separation from your, like, online life and your offline life. And so, you know, I think, like, the way that, unfortunately, that plays out for, like, a lot of, like, orange cells is they think, like, oh, I'm gonna have a trad wife who, like, never leaves the kitchen and births me 10 children and, like, doesn't know what's going on in the world. Like, I don't think it's quite that, but I don't think, like, I don't think it's it's really realistic to expect that the other person is gonna be, like, an exact copy of you, nor should they. Like, I think people that are, like, touching grass all the time have a lot to teach those of us that are, like, terminally online and vice versa. So I think that's, like, a much better pairing. So and in general, I don't think, couples should have podcasts, like, at all. I think that should be maybe made punishable by death. So

1:43:15Erin Redwing I don't think I would ever recommend husband and wife Bitcoin podcast. Just a terrible idea all around.

1:43:22Richard Greaser So you think Pierre and Morgan should get put put to death?

1:43:26Erin Redwing I mean, we should consider it at least.

1:43:30Rod Palmer I think anybody who listens to that comes to that conclusion. The first first is from, mutual friend, Rob Hamilton. He sent us 21,000 sats. Rob Hamilton helped us, land the Joseph podcast interview. So thank you for paying us to do that for us, Rob. We appreciate that. That's what we want our fans to do.

1:43:58Rod Palmer And he says, this based in my forty hours per week entropy massively. Thanks, Rob. We love you, bro.

1:44:06Richard Greaser Yeah. Rob actually,

1:44:08Erin Redwing told me about your guys' podcast. I know. He's kinda setting you guys up left and right is what it seems like.

1:44:14Rod Palmer Oh, yeah. We owe it all to him. And he's one paying us. That's the best that's a thermodynamic we sound value for value relationship.

1:44:22Richard Greaser I think I think he's the number one merch buyer of, Bugle merch. And unfortunately, he's the number one merch buyer, Podkoff merch, which is kinda disappointing. So

1:44:34Rod Palmer yeah. Rob is we always have the debate is, are things indented or discovered? And Rob discovered many scripts. So that is his claim to fame. The next the next bit is just for me. I was, gaming the the fountain algorithm to, produce the podcast and fountain. And then yeah.

1:44:55Erin Redwing See. But don't you see why when you see your Rod Palmer comment next to Rob Hamilton and it's almost the exact same thing, like, don't you see why I thought Rob Hamilton was you guys? Like, it's it seems like it's a natural alt for him.

1:45:09Richard Greaser I yeah. I mean, Rod, are are you Rob Hamilton?

1:45:13Rod Palmer What's going on here? No. I'm I I'm not Rob Hamilton. Rob Hamilton has no he has no affiliation with the Bugle. He claims to have no affiliation with Podkompf. There are a lot I mean, Pleditor has has accused him of being the behind BlockSpace Media as well. And Pledger has receipts and a lot of people, they've called Rob wearing Podkomf gear all over

1:45:40Rod Palmer in Dubai, in Florida, at the yacht party, at the crypto ball, in conferences, in Mar A Lago. Yeah. So but, you know, he's just he's just a really, really big fan who helps us book podcasts.

1:45:59Richard Greaser What is his profile picture he's got on Noster? It's It's kinda small. I can't see it.

1:46:06Rod Palmer It has him with hair.

1:46:08Erin Redwing Oh, wow.

1:46:10Richard Greaser Who is that? Wow. He's like, wow. He used to have hair. It looks like he's playing poker with hair.

1:46:16Rod Palmer That's very cool of him. I I didn't think that was him at first. Having a having a picture with you when you have hair is kinda like wearing your varsity jacket, you know, from for guys, you know Mhmm. In their thirties and forties.

1:46:30Erin Redwing Mhmm. It's like FaceTune for men.

1:46:33Richard Greaser Totally. Next boost from open mic, 7,777 sats, Beagle, Ohio Beagle Mile High Club, 40 HPW, 30 k feet.

1:46:48Richard Greaser Do you do you have this with the Hell Money, podcast? Do you have the Hell Money Mile High Club where people are listening to your, podcast on airplanes frequently?

1:46:60Erin Redwing Not that I know of. Our podcast is video, and I I think we're both, like, very attractive people who often do our best to go into cool costumes. So I don't recommend that people listen to the audio. I recommend that they only watch the video. So I guess they could have YouTube premium, and they could download it ahead of time or whatever. But, in general, like, I think ideally, you're very locked in full attention given to the video podcast. You're not sort of watching it while doing other things, you know. That's that's interesting. Yeah. Me and Richard decided not to do video. We didn't want our attractive handsomeness to distract from the message. Right? Right. Yeah. I mean, I found it pretty distracting throughout this whole episode. So I think you made the right call.

1:47:40Richard Greaser I I actually I was a part of the the Hell Money, Mile High Club. I I rode on an airplane, on Monday, and I was listening to your show on the airplane, actually. You're missing out by not watching. You're you're really missing out. So Are you get into get into the video. Are you not uploading the the video to, Spotify?

1:48:02Erin Redwing Maybe that's We are. It's we uploaded to Spotify. We used to upload it to Fountain, and then we stopped, but maybe we should start doing that. We kinda stopped whenever ordinals popped off. We were like, okay. I guess our audience isn't, like, Maxie's anymore. So kinda who cares? But Well, you'll at least get Pies. Pies will Pies boost every single podcast. So me and this eventually. So he'll be your number he'll be your number one fan right away. He listens to every every single show in the RSS feed every single week. Cool. Okay. Good to know.

1:48:28Richard Greaser I don't I don't know how it is. The time is crazy. But yeah. Well, maybe that's what I'll do next time. I'll download it on, Spotify before going on. Or if you haven't found it, I'll download it before and then watch it there. The,

1:48:44Rod Palmer the next one is, we got some double boost here. Late stage HODL, 5,000 sets, like the chickens and the eggs, to bugle or what Bitcoin did, get John Seth on first. Obviously bugle boys got it published first. Yeah, we undercut Danny and what bitcoin did we released the johnson does episode first. So you know

1:49:10Rod Palmer it just kinda shows you it's a competitive you're we're podcasting adversarially. And it must have been like Danny, you know, they had to get it out there first and be the first John Smith interview on this circuit.

1:49:24Erin Redwing Good for you guys. You're real pros.

1:49:27Richard Greaser Yeah. Dan Danny's slow. I mean, these these British people, they're not they're not just slow they're not just slow at producing podcasts. They're they're slow mentally too. Mhmm. They're just Mhmm. This has, like, been the biggest psyop in in human history is that the British people are smart, and it's, they they talk wrong. They talk incorrectly. The the, you know, the the reason why the British empire lost

1:49:60Richard Greaser the dominant position in the world is because their memes suck. They just suck at memes, and they talk wrong. And that's why America took dominance globally. There's something to be said about that. Yeah. Yeah. The the Americans had to save the the British from World War two because they couldn't fight the war because they were so bad at memes.

1:50:19Rod Palmer Yeah. Jason C, that's, that's fundamentals cohost on Back on the Chain, the Phish podcast. It's about fucking time. Only boosted

1:50:32Rod Palmer 4200¢. It's about fucking time. I almost had to send one of my Tyson's carrier positions to the Beagle newsroom with a Gwen Johnson note. Johnson and Dick represent the continuum of Bitcoin Sapphire and this conversation, a changing of the guard. I owe Johnson and American HODL a debt of gratitude for keeping me focused through this pot, this past bear market. Fuck Teddy Bitcoins. And Teddy Bitcoins, of course, is the the Maxi Madness champion who is he's the scrubbed a lot of Maxi Madness fans the wrong way.

1:51:05Erin Redwing It's a nice sentiment from Jason.

1:51:07Richard Greaser I I I disagree. I I'm kind of offended by this booth. Jason, I I don't know why our audience thinks that we're satirical. It's a very serious podcast, very serious news organization ran by a credentialed journalist. I don't I I just don't understand why they think it's satirical. I find it offensive. We we all our publishing standards

1:51:32Richard Greaser are on par with New York Times publishing standards. We're just the Bitcoin standard of Newt. We're the most thermodynamically sound podcast. But, yeah, anyways, I appreciate the boost, Jason. And, do do you like Phish? Do you ever listen to Phish, Erin?

1:51:49Erin Redwing I never have. No. I don't even know. Like, do they sound like the Grateful Dead?

1:51:55Richard Greaser I would argue they're they're better than the Grateful Dead. But, yeah, they're they're kind of like a Yeah. Spam band.

1:52:01Rod Palmer Yeah. Yeah. It's it that's like saying the difference between Ethereum and, Polkadot for, you know, 90% of the people. It's, they're it's close enough. For the normies like myself. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But, yeah, if you listen to forty hours of Phish podcast and it's Wednesday Phish and Bitcoin podcast, so it's like it met matches those two topics. And there's, you know, surprisingly a lot of connections there. But, thank you, Jason. Jason's been sounds like a new, new listener. New booster. That sounds from Dave. Dave from New Zealand. Forty hours per week. Forty two hundred sats. Just tagged us and said the title of the show. So just by sharing that on Monster. Thank you. Thank you, Dave. Dave's a big fan.

1:52:48Richard Greaser Appreciate you, Dave, but you should probably go get some, if you're from New Zealand or Australia or whatever, you should probably go learn how to talk American.

1:52:59Erin Redwing The Kiwi accent, the New Zealand accent is actually the closest to the American accent of all of the English speaking nations. Don't let them get a big head. Alright. Sorry. Yeah. I'll take that back. You can edit that out.

1:53:11Richard Greaser Americans are the the dominant English speakers in the world. We're we're the alpha males or the yeah. We're the alphas of, English speakers, and and we have to retain that. We're the haptuous. The base name talks to the male out of the, alpha statement there. It's a very respectful Yeah. No problem. It's it's hard. You know, it's hard because, like, you know, we don't we just don't deal with that many women in Bitcoin. So it it's very easy to to kind of consider it a very, like, masculine dominant thing, especially, like, you know, if you're going to the Robert Breedlove, alpha male courses on a regular basis, it it makes you think that

1:53:52Erin Redwing all there is is dudes here. You know what I mean? That's true. I actually could have pulled another card because I don't know if you can tell by my last name, but I'm native American. So I could have pulled another woke card on you with that one saying that, Americans are all alpha males or whatever. So, you know, you're lucky you got spared there.

1:54:06Richard Greaser Did you did you find it offensive that we didn't start out the podcast by doing, what what do you call a rod?

1:54:12Erin Redwing A land acknowledgment? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I did notice that.

1:54:17Rod Palmer So We did. We used to. We actually used to. We stopped doing it. When Trump won. We we got regulatory clarity, but that was no longer more or needed. So we dropped it by you know, it's just about managing our time more efficiently.

1:54:31Erin Redwing Yeah. We we got that official White House notification too at How Money podcast, but we decided that we're more on the resist camp, so we still do it every episode.

1:54:40Rod Palmer Interesting. Alright. So resistance is doing is doing the land acknowledgments.

1:54:44Erin Redwing Mhmm.

1:54:49Rod Palmer To wrap it up here, we got I've gotta go in here soon, but to the next one is a thousand sats from Maggie, Maggie Morris. She's a contributor. She could probably start doing horoscope stuff for us at the Bugle. She's a girl I've seen. She knows it. So she says, thousand sats. There's a lesson in this. Don't give people respect they don't deserve. Maggie was not happy with, some of the things Johnson said. Johnson said that most Bitcoin, women are strippers,

1:55:18Rod Palmer and they're the only ones that understand Bitcoin. I think he just meant that Bitcoin is, you know, there for people who need it. And sometimes, strippers, you know, they you know and he's talking about, like, 2,014 or something. It's like, I just needed it more. And so they were the ones who understood it, because they needed it. And I don't think he was saying that, that, you know, women have to use their husband's note. I don't think he meant them.

1:55:43Richard Greaser Does does she not like that he gave respect to those strippers? Is that the group that she thinks he knows? That's right. That's what I think. I don't think she knows that. A little bit closed minded. I'll be honest. No. I'll stick up for I'll stick up for Maggie here. I think I think she was bothered by a comment that June Seth said. He said, that the worst type of woman is the a woman that understands Bitcoin. And,

1:56:05Erin Redwing He might be right. Yeah. Maggie understands

1:56:09Richard Greaser Bitcoin. That's right. I think I think he feels that way because, d plus plus said something offensive to him sometime, and I think he took it a little bit personally.

1:56:18Rod Palmer Yeah. He didn't get him over there. Yeah.

1:56:20Richard Greaser Maybe yeah.

1:56:22Erin Redwing He got his feelings hurt. It happens.

1:56:26Richard Greaser Yeah. Maggie's gonna be okay, though. Next boost, 500¢, t k, CTV, h 80 HPW. What a username.

1:56:38Richard Greaser Says the empire knows who, quote, they are. You should too. We know. Hand up.

1:56:46Erin Redwing What is the second emoji there?

1:56:48Richard Greaser I don't know. Blueberries. It's blueberries.

1:56:51Rod Palmer Blueberries. Blueberries. That's the, that that those are the guys that were trading the wooden door meme. They're, they're on to the Rothschilds. They have under they have, discovered the Rothschilds are out of control. And, you know, maybe they're on to something. And then he he follows,

1:57:10Rod Palmer with another 500 sad boost. Yes, Juntsef. Great episode. You fucking clowns.

1:57:18Richard Greaser Again, I I don't know why people think we're clowns or joking or journalists. Mister Rabbit, 500 sets. Paint plainly ruthless. Interesting. Pink Montague, 500 sats. No comment. Thank you, Pink Montague. BTC

1:57:39Richard Greaser onboard. I like this guy. He's part of red team. 300 sats. Thumbs up. Thumbs up. Lightning. Lightning. Salute emoji. That looks like it was a double boost. This is funny. So Mag Maggie started out the episode, like, in June, Seth.

1:58:00Richard Greaser So

1:58:02Erin Redwing do you know what? Through many emotions throughout your last episode, it would seem. Yes. It was a It was an emotional roller coaster. Mhmm.

1:58:13Richard Greaser Did I read it? She says, o m g. I love June, Seth, so much. Yeah. Oh, average Gary. 100¢. Clothes are not gay if you're deployed. I think clothes are gay whether you're deployed or not. I don't I don't care. Smoking clothes is gay. Smoke real cigarettes. A Aggie Choate

1:58:39Richard Greaser 100 sat. Information density is so thin. I'm not even sure this counts towards my forty hours. It definitely counted. You suck, Aggie. You're wrong. Anonymous one seventy seven. This is a long one. That that's that's,

1:58:58Rod Palmer that's Maggie's, when she was at her most, upset in the it's a pretty long one. I think if you I think if you really wanna see Maggie's emotional roller coaster, you should just go and read the, she boosted and and commented many times. Just go read that that transcript for yourself because it was just a wild ride. Yeah.

1:59:21Erin Redwing Wow. She's really got a thesis going.

1:59:28Rod Palmer Yeah. You wanna check that one out. So go to the page. Read that one. It's it's good. And it's and it's real. It's not, that's a real some people are very reactive when they listen to Bitcoin podcasts.

1:59:39Erin Redwing It's revealing truths to them whether they like it or not. Or it's just their it's putting something in their face, and you can go read that journey. Well, that's part of putting in the forty hours. You know what I mean? Like, not all of it's gonna be easy the whole time through. You gotta you gotta clock in. You gotta clock out. And, you know, you're not gonna like every moment.

1:59:56Richard Greaser Yeah. It's part of the entropy. Sometimes you run across things that you disagree with. Well, Erin, you got any,

2:00:06Erin Redwing thoughts closing up? You got any questions for us, before we wrap this up? Questions for you guys. I'm like, I I've learned it all. Honestly, at this point, I don't need to know anything more. I'm curious to see I mean, I'll read the comments on, this episode, or, like, I'll listen to the next episode hear you guys review it. I'm really curious to see what your audience thinks about ordinals and astrology and those two things separately and also together because, like,

2:00:33Erin Redwing I've honestly not been on very many maxi podcasts, even though I consider myself a maxi. So really, like, I'm just curious to see how your audience receives it. And I guess, actually, question for both of you. How has your opinion changed throughout this episode on ordinals and astrology as separate ideas?

2:00:51Rod Palmer I've always I've always considered ordinals kinda like an astrology. I know I never really, like both ordinals and astrology. I'm I just didn't really they didn't peak my interest. I didn't really have a negative. But the more I learn about both of them, the more interesting. They more made me ask a lot of questions. And and think about Bitcoin

2:01:13Rod Palmer from a different perspective and, like, from a whole new, like, how how to value block space and what the value of block spaces at any given moment time things like that which I think maybe are more advanced topics that, you kind of get into when you're learning about this stuff and so I thought that was cool. I just, you know, sometimes it's funny when people dunk on Oodie and, you know, retweet that. But, like, you know, no hard feelings. It has nothing to do with the ordinals. It's not a privilege. It's it's just fun to make fun of Oodie. Totally.

2:01:45Richard Greaser Yeah. Making fun of Oodie is important. I mean, I I was pretty open to astrology before. I I respect it. I think it's interesting. And, so I don't know how much my opinions have really changed on that. As far as ordinals, like, I mean, I have to I don't understand any of it. So I'm gonna have to have my wife listen to this episode and then, have her teach me about ordinals. But,

2:02:13Richard Greaser I I think the thing that I found really interesting is that there's a better, man to woman ratio at the conferences. I thought that was, very, very interesting. And and, you know, my theory going into this is that we need astrology in Bitcoin to bring more women. You know, there there's a lot of people out there that say we need more women in Bitcoin, but then they they actually do the opposite. They do a lot of things to chase the women out, even though they say they want more women.

2:02:41Richard Greaser And, I I figured that astrology was the best way to do that, but maybe maybe ordinals are one of the better ways to bring more women to Bitcoin. That that's something that I kinda wanna think about a little bit more.

2:02:55Erin Redwing Yeah. It's an important point. I think it's it's important work to kinda connect orange cells with women. I would say big takeaway is, like, look up the natal chart of Bitcoin, which is like the astrological chart of Bitcoin. Send that to a girl that you're talking to and ask what she thinks about it. Be like, Bitcoin's a Capricorn sun, Aries moon. Like, what do you think? You know, I'm trying to learn more about this.

2:03:20Rod Palmer Instead of just sending yeah. Instead of just sending a girl, hey. You at 2AM. See if you wanna she wants the orange build at 2AM. Send her send her some astrology at 2AM.

2:03:31Erin Redwing See if that gets you any further than the you up text. I will say don't ask her time and place of birth because it is a negative signal that a man has ran through if he has too much astrological knowledge. So it's more if you wanna ask her. Treat her like the expert. So that's, you know, word of advice.

2:03:48Richard Greaser That makes sense. I mean, that's really interesting. It's kinda like I I feel like it'd be a turn off to a lot of these orange shells if if you go on a Tinder date and she starts, explaining Bitcoin to you and knows more, than you do. And It's a little concerning. Yeah. Yeah. She could write Yeah. Put them on the astrology side.

2:04:07Erin Redwing And where and hers pseudo science, you know.

2:04:11Rod Palmer Where is, where where do they go for these really captivating videos?

2:04:16Erin Redwing Your video podcast then is it the hell money YouTube channel? Yeah. We post on x, YouTube, Spotify. We should probably post on fountain. I'm just, like, lazy about it. But, yeah, you can find us anywhere that find podcasts are sold. It ends up being a lot of, like, ordinals, kind of Bitcoin renaissance, Bitcoin season two style content on Casey's side, and then, like, weird esoteric astrological Oh, yeah. Content on my side. So I think it's a nice balance of, like, like, Reddit atheist and, like, spirituality hoe kind of vibe. So we got a good dynamic going. Yeah. I'd recommend if you're looking for something a little bit different in your forty hours, add this in as a little bit of a palate cleanser.

2:05:00Rod Palmer Yeah. As when Rob Hamilton said it best, like the all the best Bitcoin podcast, how money talks about Bitcoin, like, 20% of the episode. And the rest of it is just relevant stuff around it. So it probably ties back to Bitcoin at some point in the conversation, but it's just it's more well rounded. It's, like you said, like you said, good entropy, well rounded, broad, good stuff. Definitely highly recommend it.

2:05:24Erin Redwing Thanks. And I love this episode. Thanks for having me on. Can't wait to see the reaction.

2:05:31Richard Greaser I have faith in our audience. I think they can handle it. Me too. Me too. Alright. Well, thank you very much, Aaron. And, yeah, we'll catch you on the next episode of Behind the Podcast.

2:05:52Unknown I came for the money. I came for the gains. I wanted a Lambo and side chicks on planes. But after a while, my NBC brain became obsessed with the immutable chain. Forty hours per

2:06:09Unknown week. Forty And that's just the start. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

2:07:30Unknown And that's just the start. Now I'm in the podcast studio two days a week. I haven't missed a meetup in twenty one weeks.

2:08:26Unknown And that's just the start.