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Transcript: A Renaissance Man | Intellectual Silk Road Episode 1

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1. bugle-ingest[bot] 2026-08-12 Ingest: 0 new episode(s) — raw sources + transcripts 32a9a2b
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   +---
   +title: "Transcript: A Renaissance Man | Intellectual Silk Road Episode 1"
   +type: transcript
   +episode: a-renaissance-man-intellectual-silk-road-episode-1
   +generated: true
   +date: 2025-09-08
   +audio: "https://feeds.fountain.fm/R8scBF2Wiykm0YVldsHQ/items/I2983FLEAKhDEYQvrhk8/files/AUDIO---DEFAULT---f6dac169-c7e9-4a2d-8321-6d93c84f0db3.mp3"
   +duration: "1:42:43"
   +sources:
   +  - raw/episodes/a-renaissance-man-intellectual-silk-road-episode-1/bundle.json
   +---
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1">0:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1" data-t="1">Some historians credit coffee with kicking off the enlightenment.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-5" data-t="5">America was built by coffee drinkers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-8" data-t="8">Coffee has played a role in radically changing the world for the better. The greatest intellectuals,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-14" data-t="14">writers, and thinkers like to mix coffee</span> <span class="cue" id="t-17" data-t="17">with their cigarettes.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-18" data-t="18">But in modern days, there's been an attack on this revolutionary</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-22">0:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-22" data-t="22">being.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-23" data-t="23">The wokes are taking it over,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-26" data-t="26">Infiltrating</span> <span class="cue" id="t-27" data-t="27">every good coffee house in America</span> <span class="cue" id="t-29" data-t="29">is an angry looking lesbian.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-32" data-t="32">White suburban women are demanding more cream and sugar than coffee in their drinks and the culture around it has shifted towards soft tops instead of straight black nectar of the gods.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-44">0:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-44" data-t="44">But the pumpkin spice</span> <span class="cue" id="t-46" data-t="46">drinking soccer moms have not completely destroyed intellectualism.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-51" data-t="51">Joining us tonight is a Renaissance man, a plumber,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-54" data-t="54">an electrician,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-56" data-t="56">a coffee roaster, a musician,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-58" data-t="58">a Bitcoin podcaster,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-60">0:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-60" data-t="60">father and husband.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-62" data-t="62">Looking like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-63" data-t="63">a paper Bitcoin company cobbler</span> <span class="cue" id="t-66" data-t="66">joining us tonight, Otis Bittmeyer.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-70" data-t="70">You did an incredible job at Lake Satoshi with your coffee shop next to your boss.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-76" data-t="76">How are you doing tonight? Great.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-79">1:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-79" data-t="79">Real good.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-81" data-t="81">Thanks for having me. What's it like running</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-84">1:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-84" data-t="84">a coffee shop,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-86" data-t="86">on the on the Bitcoin standard?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-89" data-t="89">You</span> <span class="cue" id="t-90" data-t="90">live a little bit of an alternative lifestyle.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-95" data-t="95">You kinda like, Richard said, you look like I don't I I wouldn't say you look like a cobbler. I just would say that you look like somebody who's friends with a cobbler.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-106" data-t="106">And so but more importantly,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-108">1:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-108" data-t="108">somebody who,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-110" data-t="110">serves coffee to cobblers</span> <span class="cue" id="t-112" data-t="112">and to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-113" data-t="113">homesteaders</span> <span class="cue" id="t-114" data-t="114">and to plaids and to ungovernable misfits,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-119" data-t="119">to AI musicians,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-121">2:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-121" data-t="121">to guys like Bubba.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-123" data-t="123">What</span> <span class="cue" id="t-124" data-t="124">what is it like running a a coffee shop</span> <span class="cue" id="t-128" data-t="128">on Nostra?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-130">2:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-130" data-t="130">You know, it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-133" data-t="133">I'd say it's a lot more fun</span> <span class="cue" id="t-135" data-t="135">than running a shop, a coffee shop</span> <span class="cue" id="t-138" data-t="138">on Fiat.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-142" data-t="142">Lake Satoshi was</span> <span class="cue" id="t-144" data-t="144">just</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-146">2:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-146" data-t="146">really</span> <span class="cue" id="t-147" data-t="147">okay. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-149" data-t="149">when I when I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-150" data-t="150">closed</span> <span class="cue" id="t-151" data-t="151">when when we closed our coffee shops, I was tired. I was tired of running,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-156" data-t="156">like,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-157">2:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-157" data-t="157">working more more hours per week than I wanted to.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-161" data-t="161">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-162" data-t="162">it felt like for the if as long as I wanted to stay in that industry, it was gonna require</span> <span class="cue" id="t-168" data-t="168">more than I wanted</span> <span class="cue" id="t-169" data-t="169">to give</span> <span class="cue" id="t-171" data-t="171">just to keep the lights on and and</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-175">2:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-175" data-t="175">get by. You know?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-177" data-t="177">And so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-178" data-t="178">I decided</span> <span class="cue" id="t-180" data-t="180">it just wasn't worth it to me to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-182" data-t="182">to give my life to that type of extractive</span> <span class="cue" id="t-186" data-t="186">arrangement.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-188">3:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-188" data-t="188">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-189" data-t="189">it felt like Lake Satoshi was a way what was kind of the first iteration</span> <span class="cue" id="t-194" data-t="194">for me to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-196" data-t="196">try doing it a different way</span> <span class="cue" id="t-198" data-t="198">and pay really close attention to where is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-202" data-t="202">my energy being returned to me,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-205">3:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-205" data-t="205">where where am I able to give in a way that is that I'm excited to give.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-210" data-t="210">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-213" data-t="213">it was super fun</span> <span class="cue" id="t-216" data-t="216">to just get to show up and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-218" data-t="218">share coffee with people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-220" data-t="220">while essentially hanging out at the same time.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-225">3:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-225" data-t="225">So I'm not sure where it goes from there, but I feel like we I learned some things</span> <span class="cue" id="t-231" data-t="231">Yeah. Like Satoshi that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-233" data-t="233">I'm excited to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-235" data-t="235">to dig deeper</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-237">3:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-237" data-t="237">into. You did you didn't it sounds to me like you didn't want to just serve people coffee.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-243" data-t="243">You wanted to participate in the experience</span> <span class="cue" id="t-247" data-t="247">of your coffee shop with your customers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-250" data-t="250">It wasn't you didn't just want to be the person serving it. You wanted to be there to enjoy it with them,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-256" data-t="256">in a, you know, a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-258" data-t="258">this is, you know, I say this</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-261">4:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-261" data-t="261">seriously, a thermodynamically</span> <span class="cue" id="t-263" data-t="263">sound way.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-264">4:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-264" data-t="264">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-266" data-t="266">Yeah. For sure.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-268" data-t="268">You know what?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-270" data-t="270">I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-271" data-t="271">it was tiring. It was a lot of work, and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-276" data-t="276">it took</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-277">4:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-277" data-t="277">it took, you know, some some planning and it took some intention</span> <span class="cue" id="t-282" data-t="282">to make it happen. But I kind of view what I did as setting the stage or maybe</span> <span class="cue" id="t-288" data-t="288">providing the canvas, and then we're all just there painting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-292" data-t="292">on the canvas together.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-296" data-t="296">Or if you wanna go back to my stage analogy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-300" data-t="300">we're all there creating the play together.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-303">5:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-303" data-t="303">And that feels way better to me than,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-307" data-t="307">you know, someone coming in</span> <span class="cue" id="t-309" data-t="309">were separated by a counter,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-312" data-t="312">and their expectation is that I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-315" data-t="315">essentially am their servant and get them their thing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-319" data-t="319">as quickly as possible. And in exchange,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-321">5:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-321" data-t="321">they'll give me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-323" data-t="323">some money,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-324" data-t="324">and that's supposed to be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-327" data-t="327">satisfactory</span> <span class="cue" id="t-328" data-t="328">arrangement.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-330" data-t="330">It's not. It's not for me anymore, and I think</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-333">5:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-333" data-t="333">it's not for a lot of people even if they don't realize it yet.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-337" data-t="337">That sort of exchange</span> <span class="cue" id="t-338" data-t="338">is just not gonna cut it moving forward, I don't think. And</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-344">5:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-344" data-t="344">last thing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-345" data-t="345">about this for me is that it sounds like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-349" data-t="349">you didn't want people to, come to your coffee shop just because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-353" data-t="353">it was convenient. That's the coffee shop nearby. It's the quickest, whatever. You wanted people to, like, get on a plane with their daughters and fly across the country</span> <span class="cue" id="t-363" data-t="363">and then, like, miss a flight and then still get up the next day and and make the connecting flight and then order a trailer and drive a couple hours</span> <span class="cue" id="t-372" data-t="372">into the forest</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-374">6:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-374" data-t="374">to get your coffee because it's that good. Like, people will fly across the country just to get a chance</span> <span class="cue" id="t-381" data-t="381">to talk about Bitcoin or anything,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-384" data-t="384">really.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-385" data-t="385">It owes my it Meijer's Coffee Shop.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-388">6:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-388" data-t="388">Well,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-390" data-t="390">yeah. I mean, totally.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-391" data-t="391">That's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-392" data-t="392">that's exactly what I want because I know that those people wanna be there.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-396" data-t="396">And I know that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-398" data-t="398">if they wanna be there that badly, they're invested in making it a good time as well.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-403">6:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-403" data-t="403">So, yeah, you're absolutely right. And they have to listen</span> <span class="cue" id="t-408" data-t="408">to your, your podcast stories or your orange piddling theories because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-415" data-t="415">they drill all the way to air. It's like driving out to the outlet mall. You gotta stick around and check out the deals. Right? Like, it's they're gonna listen to your theories. Yeah. And and I I have to listen to theirs as well,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-426">7:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-426" data-t="426">but I'm happy to do it.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-429">7:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-429" data-t="429">Because Gotta listen to Carl</span> <span class="cue" id="t-431" data-t="431">explain the six forms of capital. Yeah.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-434">7:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-434" data-t="434">Yeah. As many times as it takes for it to</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-438">7:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-438" data-t="438">to seep into my brain, for sure. So yeah. So, like, tell tell us about running a coffee shop back in the day. You know, you're slaving away.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-446" data-t="446">I think you and I had similar experiences.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-448" data-t="448">You know, my experience was with the media, you know, where I felt like it was soul sucking and I I quit to leave, do something else.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-457" data-t="457">And it radically improved my life. It sounds like you've done the same</span> <span class="cue" id="t-461" data-t="461">with,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-462" data-t="462">closing down your coffee shop.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-465">7:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-465" data-t="465">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-466" data-t="466">did you, like, employ people? Did you have to employ these angry lesbian ladies</span> <span class="cue" id="t-471" data-t="471">with a bunch of tattoos</span> <span class="cue" id="t-473" data-t="473">or,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-475" data-t="475">what what was the structure of the coffee shop like?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-478">7:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-478" data-t="478">Yeah. So we we did structure it so that we had to employ people.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-483" data-t="483">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-484" data-t="484">we definitely got some of that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-487" data-t="487">angry</span> <span class="cue" id="t-488" data-t="488">energy</span> <span class="cue" id="t-490" data-t="490">that,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-491">8:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-491" data-t="491">I'll say</span> <span class="cue" id="t-492" data-t="492">I mean, it it happened under my watch. So, ultimately, it was my responsibility to weed it out, but I didn't.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-499" data-t="499">At the time,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-501" data-t="501">I I kind of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-503" data-t="503">I hadn't</span> <span class="cue" id="t-505" data-t="505">fully realized how toxic</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-507">8:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-507" data-t="507">that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-509" data-t="509">mentality</span> <span class="cue" id="t-510" data-t="510">was,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-512" data-t="512">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-514" data-t="514">I let</span> <span class="cue" id="t-515" data-t="515">it go</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-516">8:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-516" data-t="516">for far too long and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-518" data-t="518">ended up I wouldn't I wouldn't say it ruined our company, but it significantly</span> <span class="cue" id="t-523" data-t="523">like, that that mentality</span> <span class="cue" id="t-524" data-t="524">of,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-525" data-t="525">outrage and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-528" data-t="528">essentially,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-529">8:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-529" data-t="529">it it seems to me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-532" data-t="532">requiring everyone else to solve your problems</span> <span class="cue" id="t-536" data-t="536">and, like, you just getting to sit back and poke</span> <span class="cue" id="t-541" data-t="541">fingers at people.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-543" data-t="543">Like, that was a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-545" data-t="545">that was something that was a real challenge,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-548">9:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-548" data-t="548">you know, from our employees anyway. Like, that that mentality</span> <span class="cue" id="t-552" data-t="552">where</span> <span class="cue" id="t-555" data-t="555">we</span> <span class="cue" id="t-556" data-t="556">I get to blame the boss.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-558" data-t="558">You know? The boss is always wrong.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-561">9:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-561" data-t="561">That,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-562" data-t="562">it's it's very common</span> <span class="cue" id="t-564" data-t="564">if you look into the drama. Because there's always, like, little dramas</span> <span class="cue" id="t-569" data-t="569">between coffee shops and their employees. There a lot of times it's these coffee shops who they claim it's like a group chat or a a spaces in Bitcoin where it's like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-580" data-t="580">the they seem to agree on the most things or it's like the most esoteric</span> <span class="cue" id="t-584" data-t="584">little meme gang, communist meme gang,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-588">9:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-588" data-t="588">but they get in the biggest fights and biggest quarrels and they end up having to shut their co op coffee shop down because the employees</span> <span class="cue" id="t-595" data-t="595">are in the mindset,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-597" data-t="597">and it's not just coffee shops but it's definitely in coffee shops too that the employees feel like they're being exploited by the employer. It's a it it's Right. Whether it's an exploitative,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-609" data-t="609">relationship or not, the tone,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-611" data-t="611">especially in a corporate like Starbucks</span> <span class="cue" id="t-614" data-t="614">or something, but even everywhere, it's</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-618">10:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-618" data-t="618">is my boss exploiting me? And it's, like, pretty incongruent</span> <span class="cue" id="t-623" data-t="623">with what a coffee shop experience is supposed to be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-627" data-t="627">is not the foundation of it being exploitative.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-630">10:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-630" data-t="630">Yeah. Precisely.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-632" data-t="632">So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-633" data-t="633">you know, before I owned a coffee shop, I worked,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-637" data-t="637">in a roastery</span> <span class="cue" id="t-639" data-t="639">as an employee.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-642" data-t="642">And one of the reason or one of the visions that I had or that Jubilee and I had when we started</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-648">10:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-648" data-t="648">our shops was we wanna try to do it differently. We wanna try to treat our employees</span> <span class="cue" id="t-654" data-t="654">better.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-655" data-t="655">Well,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-656" data-t="656">I didn't realize</span> <span class="cue" id="t-658" data-t="658">that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-660" data-t="660">we're still within this exploitive system</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-664">11:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-664" data-t="664">of fiat,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-667" data-t="667">that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-669" data-t="669">it doesn't really matter whether you're an owner, whether you're an employee, whether you're a landlord.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-674" data-t="674">Everybody's getting squeezed. And so I I felt like I had played enough roles</span> <span class="cue" id="t-680" data-t="680">within the system</span> <span class="cue" id="t-682" data-t="682">by the time I was an owner that I could kind of see, oh, wait.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-686">11:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-686" data-t="686">The employees are just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-689" data-t="689">feeling like they're being exploited by me, the owner.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-693" data-t="693">As an employee, I felt like I was being exploited by the owner. And then as an owner, I felt like I was kind of being exploited by the employees in a way,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-704" data-t="704">or at least certainly beholden to them in ways that didn't feel</span> <span class="cue" id="t-708" data-t="708">like it was in my best interests</span> <span class="cue" id="t-711" data-t="711">as,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-712">11:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-712" data-t="712">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-713" data-t="713">personally and for the good of the business.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-716" data-t="716">And so that was kind of around when COVID started that all of this started coming together for me, and COVID just was a clarifier where I was like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-725" data-t="725">there's no win here for any of us within this system. We can't. Like, it just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-731" data-t="731">it is whether it's by design or whether it's just the way it happened, the system</span> <span class="cue" id="t-737" data-t="737">essentially</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-739">12:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-739" data-t="739">breeds and nurtures</span> <span class="cue" id="t-741" data-t="741">this kind of division.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-743" data-t="743">And I'm just I'm not gonna participate in shit like that anymore.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-748">12:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-748" data-t="748">It boils down to I'm not gonna build my coffee shop on a foundation of fiat. I gotta Right. I gotta build my my wife</span> <span class="cue" id="t-757" data-t="757">on a stronger foundation. This one is you can't fix it.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-761">12:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-761" data-t="761">Right. Going back to our, you know, our church background, there's that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-766" data-t="766">don't build your house on the sand.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-771" data-t="771">I definitely feel</span> <span class="cue" id="t-772" data-t="772">like that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-774" data-t="774">was pertinent in this situation.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-776" data-t="776">Just felt like I was keeping on trying to build</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-780">13:00</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-780" data-t="780">something on sand that was current constantly shifting, you know, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-785" data-t="785">we had COVID going on, and then we had Black Lives Matter. And I remember being in the midst of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-791" data-t="791">a employee meeting where I'm, like, I'm coming to this meeting.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-795" data-t="795">Like, we just spent a couple months shut down because of all of the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-800" data-t="800">you know, all of the stuff going on with COVID.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-803" data-t="803">And we're just getting back, getting our feet under us, and I'm, like,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-807">13:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-807" data-t="807">thinking, okay. Let's be strategizing how we can make this</span> <span class="cue" id="t-812" data-t="812">make this thing work.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-814" data-t="814">And my employees are all bent out of shape about Black Lives Matter</span> <span class="cue" id="t-820" data-t="820">and are, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-821" data-t="821">urging me to start a nonprofit.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-825" data-t="825">And I'm like,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-827">13:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-827" data-t="827">guys,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-828" data-t="828">do you want a job,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-830" data-t="830">or do you wanna, you know, like, we're there's there's more going on here than than</span> <span class="cue" id="t-837" data-t="837">this,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-839" data-t="839">this storm that's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-841" data-t="841">currently raging right outside, you know, the the Black Lives Matter storm. Well, coffee culture is really interesting. So coffee is</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-851">14:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-851" data-t="851">incredibly important in The United States.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-853" data-t="853">Yeah. I don't know what the percentage of people that drink coffee is, but it's probably well over 50%, probably daily. But there's a there's a huge split in the dynamics between different types of coffee drinkers. So, like, there's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-867" data-t="867">like, when you think about the working class</span> <span class="cue" id="t-871" data-t="871">American, you think of people, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-873" data-t="873">they're they're drinking, like, gas station coffee.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-876" data-t="876">They're going through the drive through in the morning to get their black coffee from the the lady in the bikini. You know, that that's the thing that I learned about recently. I don't know if you knew this, but</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-886">14:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-886" data-t="886">if the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-887" data-t="887">the bikini</span> <span class="cue" id="t-889" data-t="889">coffee drive thrus,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-892" data-t="892">they're drinking Folgers. They're drinking,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-896" data-t="896">you know, just, you know, what whatever. Just kind of trash coffee. You know what I mean?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-901" data-t="901">And then you've got</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-902">15:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-902" data-t="902">the intellectual,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-903" data-t="903">like, college educated left</span> <span class="cue" id="t-906" data-t="906">that's drinking like, a lot of I would say, like, a lot of the middle class</span> <span class="cue" id="t-911" data-t="911">educated,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-913" data-t="913">individuals, they'll do, like, drip coffee at home</span> <span class="cue" id="t-917" data-t="917">or something along the lines of that. But then you you talk about the</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-921">15:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-921" data-t="921">the leftist</span> <span class="cue" id="t-923" data-t="923">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-924" data-t="924">it started in Seattle. Like, I I think it really started in Seattle where Seattle</span> <span class="cue" id="t-928" data-t="928">is, like, the capital of coffee in The United States, as far as I can tell,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-934" data-t="934">which is one of the most Looney Tunes leftist,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-938" data-t="938">areas</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-939">15:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-939" data-t="939">like Pinochet</span> <span class="cue" id="t-941" data-t="941">might have invaded The United States over it. It was it's so bad, but he couldn't resist throwing those guys out of helicopters. But,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-949">15:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-949" data-t="949">Then we would let them. And we would let them. It it'd be a favor to everybody.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-955">15:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-955" data-t="955">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-957" data-t="957">but, like, the the type of coffee shop that I imagine that you were running, you know, where it was kinda hipster ish in a sense is how I would describe it, where it's not just like a chain. You're you're doing different types of brews.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-972" data-t="972">You probably have, like, an Ethiopian,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-974" data-t="974">blend of coffee and, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-977" data-t="977">a Colombian blend, and, like, people can choose which blend they want over they eat is it a pour over</span> <span class="cue" id="t-984" data-t="984">or is it that pour? It's that's all dominated by leftists. Like, you the the per the people that, like, work at those, like, want either or from Seattle or wanna be from Seattle. Yeah. I think, you know, since I've been out of</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-999">16:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-999" data-t="999">the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1000" data-t="1000">I guess, the mainstream</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1002" data-t="1002">third wave coffee scene now for a few few years. So are you familiar with the terms the the term third wave? So, like, third wave feminism?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1013" data-t="1013">I have no idea. Could be.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1017" data-t="1017">So first wave was kinda like Folgers,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1022" data-t="1022">that kinda like coffee out of a can when coffee became</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1027">17:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1027" data-t="1027">kind of accessible to the common man</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1030" data-t="1030">here in The United States.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1034">17:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1034" data-t="1034">What what years when the were were the</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1038">17:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1038" data-t="1038">That's a good question.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1040" data-t="1040">I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1042" data-t="1042">I can't tell you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1044" data-t="1044">specifically.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1045" data-t="1045">I I wanna say, like, post World War two, maybe.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1050">17:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1050" data-t="1050">But I could be wrong with that. Prior to World War two, coffee was a delicacy for kings in presidents, and then it became</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1057" data-t="1057">he gets some, some Folgers</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1059">17:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1059" data-t="1059">in a can. That's kinda my perception.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1063">17:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1063" data-t="1063">Gotcha. Okay.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1065">17:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1065" data-t="1065">So second wave then was when,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1068" data-t="1068">like, Pete's and and Starbucks came up, and they kind of made,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1074" data-t="1074">a higher</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1075" data-t="1075">higher grade coffee</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1078" data-t="1078">and all of these more,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1080" data-t="1080">you know, like, the the lattes and that type of experience.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1085">18:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1085" data-t="1085">So first wave wouldn't have been</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1087" data-t="1087">wouldn't have included much espresso.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1090" data-t="1090">Second wave was when espresso kind of started to become more popular here,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1095" data-t="1095">and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1096" data-t="1096">Starbucks was a big part of that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1099" data-t="1099">And then third wave</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1100">18:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1100" data-t="1100">was a response</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1103" data-t="1103">to the second wave from people who</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1107" data-t="1107">wanted to experiment</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1109" data-t="1109">with lighter roasts</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1112" data-t="1112">and really,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1114" data-t="1114">highlighting</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1116">18:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1116" data-t="1116">the terroir of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1118" data-t="1118">individual beans as well as,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1121" data-t="1121">renewed focus on sourcing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1124" data-t="1124">relationally,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1126" data-t="1126">sourcing, like, fair trade,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1129" data-t="1129">that sort of thing.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1131">18:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1131" data-t="1131">And whether it was,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1134" data-t="1134">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1136" data-t="1136">what you know, like, there was a lot of focus on</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1139" data-t="1139">how how we treat the farmer, what what the farmer gets paid,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1143" data-t="1143">that sort of thing. And I don't know if there's a relationship or a correlation there between</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1149">19:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1149" data-t="1149">What those so my question</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1152" data-t="1152">Yes. Is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1153" data-t="1153">my question,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1155" data-t="1155">why</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1156" data-t="1156">is it so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1158" data-t="1158">pre or why is it so specific to coffee where everybody</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1162">19:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1162" data-t="1162">is questioning</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1163" data-t="1163">or look trying to look out for</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1166" data-t="1166">everybody else in the supply chain's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1169" data-t="1169">best interest for the you're a why do nobody seems to trust or,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1175" data-t="1175">feel good about everybody just following their own incentives. It seems like everybody's worried about exploiting each other in the coffee industry, whether it's the farmers, the employees, the shop owners,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1185" data-t="1185">the managers,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1186">19:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1186" data-t="1186">the,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1188" data-t="1188">you know, exporters, importers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1190" data-t="1190">Why is everybody just not focused on their own incentives</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1194" data-t="1194">and just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1195" data-t="1195">serve coffee?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1197">19:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1197" data-t="1197">You know, that's an interesting question.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1200" data-t="1200">And so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1201" data-t="1201">I I've been talking to the importer that I work with,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1205" data-t="1205">about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1207" data-t="1207">things like this.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1210" data-t="1210">A lot of</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1212">20:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1212" data-t="1212">what sets the price of the green beans that I get</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1215" data-t="1215">is the commodities market.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1217" data-t="1217">Even in specialty coffee where,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1221" data-t="1221">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1222" data-t="1222">my importer is paying significantly</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1224" data-t="1224">more than the sea market price,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1228">20:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1228" data-t="1228">she's still</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1229" data-t="1229">when she's talking to the farmers that she's working with, she's still</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1234" data-t="1234">that, like, that's the the c market</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1236" data-t="1236">is still in their mind as, like, kind of the the standard</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1240" data-t="1240">for coffee, what coffee</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1243" data-t="1243">should cost.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1244">20:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1244" data-t="1244">And so they're still basing their pricing on c market plus</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1249" data-t="1249">instead of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1251" data-t="1251">I would think what the logical thing that the farmers would do is they would look at their input costs,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1257" data-t="1257">and then they would decide what</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1260" data-t="1260">amount</span> <span class="cue" data-t="1260">they of profit they need to make on top of that, and then that's what they would charge for their coffee. And,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1267">21:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1267" data-t="1267">like, my importer</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1269" data-t="1269">seems</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1270" data-t="1270">willing to pay</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1272" data-t="1272">whatever it is that the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1274" data-t="1274">the farmers</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1275" data-t="1275">need to charge for their coffee.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1278">21:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1278" data-t="1278">But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1280" data-t="1280">for some reason, the sea market still</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1284" data-t="1284">seems to loom large in a lot of farmers' decision making processes. So I don't know. Maybe we're in this period where we are starting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1292" data-t="1292">we'll we'll start to be able to affect some change there and be like, no. Farmers, just charge what it is that you need to charge to make it worth your time, and we'll pay it.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1302">21:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1302" data-t="1302">I don't know. That's it's it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1306" data-t="1306">I don't know. It just seems like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1309" data-t="1309">there's a lot more</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1311" data-t="1311">to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1313" data-t="1313">this whole coffee</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1315" data-t="1315">industry,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1317">21:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1317" data-t="1317">the coffee as a service, coffee as a commodity, as a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1323" data-t="1323">cultural,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1325" data-t="1325">staple,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1327" data-t="1327">as a stimulant, as a drug, as a there's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1331" data-t="1331">a pathology to this coffee thing, and it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1334" data-t="1334">is there a do they just need more bit like, coffee podcasts</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1339">22:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1339" data-t="1339">so people can get kinda drill down to what</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1342" data-t="1342">is so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1344" data-t="1344">deep about this coffee rabbit hole.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1346" data-t="1346">It's like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1348" data-t="1348">it it seems like something that's perfect for Bitcoin to fix.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1352" data-t="1352">Like, it's got, Bitcoin's gonna fix the coffee industry.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1355">22:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1355" data-t="1355">So the farmers and the blue haired, you know, lesbians</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1359" data-t="1359">will stop bickering</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1361">22:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1361" data-t="1361">and just do their jobs. Yeah. I mean, I hope I hope that works. Yeah. I I do think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1367" data-t="1367">Bitcoin</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1370" data-t="1370">could be really helpful in just something as simple as payments, like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1375" data-t="1375">streamlining payments, making it really easy for,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1380" data-t="1380">payment to get to these small farmers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1383" data-t="1383">But it takes time, and a lot of them are really,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1387">23:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1387" data-t="1387">not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1389" data-t="1389">super</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1390" data-t="1390">ready to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1391" data-t="1391">take risk and try new things because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1394" data-t="1394">they're already kinda living on a knife's edge as far as,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1398">23:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1398" data-t="1398">they're not ready to be node runners.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1400">23:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1400" data-t="1400">They're not ready to be node runners, I guess. Yeah. So are the the farmers</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1405">23:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1405" data-t="1405">they're they're not charging enough is what you're saying they should charge more?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1409">23:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1409" data-t="1409">I don't know. It it's hard for me to tell because when I hear somebody making decisions based on</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1415" data-t="1415">what a commodities market is doing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1419" data-t="1419">that is confusing to me because I would think,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1422" data-t="1422">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1423" data-t="1423">as a human being</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1425" data-t="1425">who's trying to grow coffee, if I was trying to grow coffee as a farmer, I would be looking at my input costs. I'd be looking at the amount of time it takes me to do this and, like,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1435">23:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1435" data-t="1435">what I want</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1437" data-t="1437">to be making to make it worth my time,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1440" data-t="1440">and then I'd be pricing accordingly.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1443" data-t="1443">But it seems like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1445" data-t="1445">for some reason, the c market</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1448" data-t="1448">still</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1449">24:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1449" data-t="1449">still,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1452" data-t="1452">is is a is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1454" data-t="1454">a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1455" data-t="1455">something that people look at or that farmers look at</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1458" data-t="1458">a lot as far as</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1461" data-t="1461">a a source of</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1463">24:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1463" data-t="1463">kind of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1465" data-t="1465">sorry. I'm struggling for words here. But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1467" data-t="1467">the the farmers are seem to be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1470" data-t="1470">putting a lot of weight in the sea market for what they should be charging, and I just don't it doesn't make sense to me. I don't quite understand why you would look outside of yourself and outside of your farm for guidance on how to price your products. It's a price signal, and it's a global market is probably what they're thinking.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1488" data-t="1488">Right. But it it I mean, we see this</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1492" data-t="1492">in farms here where, like, the c market price</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1497">24:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1497" data-t="1497">at times</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1499" data-t="1499">has is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1500" data-t="1500">decoupled from the actual cost of production.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1504" data-t="1504">And then other times, like right now with with cattle,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1508" data-t="1508">the market is ridiculous. And so people are are actually incentivized</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1512" data-t="1512">to sell off their herds because</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1517">25:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1517" data-t="1517">the the market is extremely high.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1520" data-t="1520">But that's not in the best interest of us over the long term. Like, collectively,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1525" data-t="1525">it's not in the best interest of humans</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1528" data-t="1528">to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1530" data-t="1530">have all of this volatility,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1533">25:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1533" data-t="1533">I don't think. Yeah. That's interesting.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1535" data-t="1535">I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1537" data-t="1537">so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1538" data-t="1538">one thing that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1542" data-t="1542">what it's kinda a shift focus here. I guess my question is we were talking before the show</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1547" data-t="1547">about music,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1549">25:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1549" data-t="1549">and we keep probably go on this topic</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1551" data-t="1551">of music and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1554" data-t="1554">and technology is kind of like merging with the ability to produce and distribute this music.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1560" data-t="1560">What kind what kind of music do you play</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1563" data-t="1563">at a coffee shop that's, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1566" data-t="1566">as,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1567">26:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1567" data-t="1567">unique as your own and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1569" data-t="1569">in many different contexts with many different</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1572" data-t="1572">vibes of crowds,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1575" data-t="1575">how important</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1576" data-t="1576">is music</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1578">26:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1578" data-t="1578">to the coffee shop? Oh, I think music's very important. Nobody wants to walk into a coffee shop where the music isn't</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1585" data-t="1585">playing or it's just silent,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1588" data-t="1588">and nobody wants to walk into a coffee shop where the music is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1593" data-t="1593">not supporting the vibe that's going on.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1597" data-t="1597">So I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1599" data-t="1599">I mean, to me, it just depends. The the the kind of music that I like to have in a shop depends</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1607">26:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1607" data-t="1607">on the time of day,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1609" data-t="1609">depends on the the number of people in the shop, depends on what the people are in the shop to do.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1616" data-t="1616">If it's a business meeting,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1619" data-t="1619">it might be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1620" data-t="1620">it's gonna be different than if it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1623" data-t="1623">I don't know, a bachelorette party.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1629">27:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1629" data-t="1629">What if, what if what if a broccoli haircut shows up and starts playing Wonderwall</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1635">27:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1635" data-t="1635">by Oasis, and you're is that allowed? It again, it depends on the time of day. I'd say maybe</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1641" data-t="1641">maybe around two in the afternoon.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1643" data-t="1643">That probably feel about right, when when the shop is mostly empty.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1648" data-t="1648">But a few people that are there, I think, would appreciate that. That's my thought. I mean, do you guys have thoughts on that?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1654">27:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1654" data-t="1654">Were were you the DJ or were your employees the DJ?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1659">27:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1659" data-t="1659">We</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1660" data-t="1660">we gave discretion to whoever was working</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1663" data-t="1663">to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1665" data-t="1665">curate the their own tunes.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1667">27:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1667" data-t="1667">There there was a coffee shop I used to frequent that, would play metal music.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1672" data-t="1672">And I like that a lot, but that was really unique. But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1676" data-t="1676">like, were there any songs that you would consider a fireable offense? Like, if they were</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1682" data-t="1682">playing Margaritaville?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1683" data-t="1683">Like, it just crosses the vibe. Like, this boomer slob is not allowed.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1690">28:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1690" data-t="1690">You know, I'm trying to think of when Margaritaville</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1693" data-t="1693">would be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1694" data-t="1694">appropriate.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1695" data-t="1695">I'm sure there'd be a time.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1697">28:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1697" data-t="1697">I would say coffee shop if you had a coffee shop in a casino or on, like, a a cruise ship, that'd be Oh, absolutely.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1705">28:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1705" data-t="1705">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1707" data-t="1707">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1708" data-t="1708">I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1710" data-t="1710">this this is just my personal</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1712" data-t="1712">my personal opinion.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1714" data-t="1714">I</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1715">28:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1715" data-t="1715">am not a fan</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1717" data-t="1717">of, like, screaming,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1719" data-t="1719">screamo,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1722" data-t="1722">or, like, I guess, in general, like, super intense music at a coffee shop.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1728" data-t="1728">So, like,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1729">28:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1729" data-t="1729">EDM. You look you look like you might</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1733" data-t="1733">prefer the Lumineers</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1735" data-t="1735">or,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1739" data-t="1739">what's the other one? The,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1742">29:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1742" data-t="1742">Of Mice and</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1743">29:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1743" data-t="1743">Men. Of Mice and Men. Yes. Or Alabama,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1747" data-t="1747">Arkansas.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1748" data-t="1748">I do love my Ma and Pa. Are you into that? Like, the the folk music?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1753" data-t="1753">Oh, yeah. What about Bob Dylan? What about Wagon Wheel? Wagon Wheel,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1759">29:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1759" data-t="1759">one of my daughters,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1762" data-t="1762">we listened to Wagon Wheel every night</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1765" data-t="1765">for maybe a couple years, putting one of my daughters to bed.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1769" data-t="1769">So,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1771">29:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1771" data-t="1771">Wagon Wheel has a special place in my heart. Definitely. And your and your and your wife is named after a Lumineers album. Am I right? Is that correct? Or am I confusing that? Yes. That's correct. Yeah.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1784">29:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1784" data-t="1784">That's so good. Yeah.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1786">29:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1786" data-t="1786">Yeah. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1788" data-t="1788">that mean, that sounds like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1791" data-t="1791">this sounds like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1792" data-t="1792">a a sitcom. You you could also you could have a sitcom coffee shop. You know? It's like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1797" data-t="1797">the Lumineers coffee shop. The,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1800" data-t="1800">but it to be more serious,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1805">30:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1805" data-t="1805">what is it how do you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1808" data-t="1808">find customers and convince them</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1812" data-t="1812">to fly across</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1814" data-t="1814">the country to try your coffee and to come to your coffee shop? How do how do they</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1820" data-t="1820">what's the marketing like for that? What is the outreach?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1823" data-t="1823">How how does one succeed</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1826">30:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1826" data-t="1826">in that business model? Well, I don't know how one succeeds. I'm still figuring that out.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1831" data-t="1831">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1834" data-t="1834">I do not have any interest in trying to convince people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1838" data-t="1838">to buy my coffee.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1840" data-t="1840">So here here</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1842" data-t="1842">here's how I view it.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1844">30:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1844" data-t="1844">I roast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1845" data-t="1845">the coffee that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1847" data-t="1847">I enjoy drinking,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1849" data-t="1849">and I share it with my friends. And I'm looking</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1852" data-t="1852">for more friends to enjoy it with.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1856" data-t="1856">But</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1857">30:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1857" data-t="1857">whatever that number whatever the Dunbar's number of friends is that will enjoy my coffee with me, I don't know.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1865" data-t="1865">But beyond that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1867" data-t="1867">you know, it's kinda take it or leave it. If you wanna come</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1873" data-t="1873">and enjoy the coffee with us, you're welcome.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1877" data-t="1877">And</span> <span class="cue" data-t="1877">if it's not for you, then it's not for you.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1882">31:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1882" data-t="1882">But I'm not trying to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1885" data-t="1885">convince anyone that they should drink my coffee because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1889" data-t="1889">that I mean, that this just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1892" data-t="1892">it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1893" data-t="1893">it's not where I wanna spend my energy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1896" data-t="1896">I've got plenty of other things that I wanna do with my time, and so it's kinda like I'll roast coffee,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1902">31:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1902" data-t="1902">up to a point</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1903" data-t="1903">for as many hours a month as there is interest.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1907" data-t="1907">And then the rest of the month, I have freedom to do</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1911" data-t="1911">to pursue other interests,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1913" data-t="1913">if that makes sense. Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1916" data-t="1916">Makes sense. So so I guess my</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1919">31:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1919" data-t="1919">advertising wise,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1921" data-t="1921">it's like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1924" data-t="1924">it's the fans. It's the people that enjoy the coffee that do the advertising.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1929" data-t="1929">So, like, early on, it was Carl. I mean, it's still Carl,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1933" data-t="1933">fundamentals.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1934" data-t="1934">But, like, Carl was</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1936">32:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1936" data-t="1936">one of my first</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1937" data-t="1937">he was my first,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1940" data-t="1940">customer, if you will.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1942" data-t="1942">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1943" data-t="1943">Ian has introduced my coffee to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1946" data-t="1946">numerous other folks. Fundamentals</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1948">32:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1948" data-t="1948">was another</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1949" data-t="1949">early adopter,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1951" data-t="1951">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1952" data-t="1952">he's been a tremendous ally</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1955" data-t="1955">and spread the word. So it's like, you know, just find find your fans and let them do the marketing for for you is my approach.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1964" data-t="1964">You</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1965">32:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1965" data-t="1965">Your marketing style is by harnessing social capital.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1971">32:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1971" data-t="1971">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1972" data-t="1972">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1973" data-t="1973">Exactly.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1974">32:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1974" data-t="1974">So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1976" data-t="1976">would that make</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1977" data-t="1977">you a social capitalist?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1981">33:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1981" data-t="1981">Yeah. Yeah. Sure. That's a new boy. That's a new yeah. That's an that is a new</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1986" data-t="1986">that's of, like, a new podcast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1988" data-t="1988">genre.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1989" data-t="1989">Social capitalism.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1991">33:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1991" data-t="1991">I might put that on my business card.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1994" data-t="1994">Social</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1995">33:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1995" data-t="1995">capitalists. I can't I can't wait till the, like, the new wave of communists are coming after the social capitalists.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2001" data-t="2001">Like, you can't have friends.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2003" data-t="2003">You can't have friends that are podcasters that talk about your coffee.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2008" data-t="2008">It's a exploited it.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2010">33:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2010" data-t="2010">You talked you talked about you're like, alright. I will roast,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2015" data-t="2015">for as many hours a month is there as interest, and then I get to move on to other things.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2021" data-t="2021">So what what are those other things? Who is the person or the interests,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2027" data-t="2027">of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2028" data-t="2028">the coffee guy Otis Bittmeyer?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2031" data-t="2031">Besides coffee.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2033">33:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2033" data-t="2033">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2036" data-t="2036">So I'm really interested in</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2039" data-t="2039">permaculture</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2040" data-t="2040">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2042" data-t="2042">centering my life in such a way</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2045" data-t="2045">that,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2047">34:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2047" data-t="2047">what I do</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2049" data-t="2049">is is productive in multiple ways. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2056" data-t="2056">like homesteading</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2059" data-t="2059">and developing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2061" data-t="2061">like, building land</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2063" data-t="2063">to</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2064">34:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2064" data-t="2064">over time</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2066" data-t="2066">produce a yield</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2068" data-t="2068">that requires</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2070" data-t="2070">less and less input from me is something that I'm really interested in.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2075" data-t="2075">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2076" data-t="2076">that that's all a very low time preference</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2081">34:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2081" data-t="2081">endeavor,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2084" data-t="2084">and, it just looks like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2086" data-t="2086">a lot of spending time</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2089" data-t="2089">on land</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2091" data-t="2091">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2092" data-t="2092">slowly over time</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2095">34:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2095" data-t="2095">discovering what wants to happen</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2097" data-t="2097">there.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2098" data-t="2098">So it's a very,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2101" data-t="2101">kind of it's a process that that really,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2104" data-t="2104">a lot of days doesn't look</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2106" data-t="2106">like there's much going on, but,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2110">35:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2110" data-t="2110">it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2111" data-t="2111">my my hope is over time that it will yield</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2114" data-t="2114">other revenue streams. You know, like, we're we're we're looking at getting rabbits.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2119" data-t="2119">We've got some chickens that were,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2122" data-t="2122">taken</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2124" data-t="2124">care of, and</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2126">35:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2126" data-t="2126">I guess my my goal would be similar to with the coffee</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2130" data-t="2130">that I'm roasting the coffee that I want</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2133" data-t="2133">to be drinking, I'm also growing the food that I want to be eating</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2137" data-t="2137">and then,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2138" data-t="2138">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2139" data-t="2139">making more of it than I can consume and sharing it with my friends. So very similar to like, the coffee is kind of the prototype for how I wanna live in general.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2149">35:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2149" data-t="2149">You just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2150" data-t="2150">you wanna do things with more intentionality.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2154" data-t="2154">Everything you do, everything you consume,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2157" data-t="2157">the way you spend your time, your energy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2160" data-t="2160">just very intentionally</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2163" data-t="2163">and not,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2166">36:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2166" data-t="2166">for, you know, pay working 50%</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2168" data-t="2168">of the time to pay the state or to pay the bills or to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2172" data-t="2172">whatever, pay taxes.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2175" data-t="2175">You don't care about affording taxes. You</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2178" data-t="2178">care about,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2180" data-t="2180">affording to have the time</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2183">36:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2183" data-t="2183">to do everything exact like, you make sure you wanna do it.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2187">36:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2187" data-t="2187">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2188" data-t="2188">I just don't think life is long enough to spend it,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2192" data-t="2192">doing like, working for other people and their dreams.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2196" data-t="2196">At least</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2198" data-t="2198">that's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2199" data-t="2199">I my life isn't long enough for that.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2201">36:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2201" data-t="2201">So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2203" data-t="2203">I've gotta figure out</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2205" data-t="2205">what it is that I want. I'm I am figuring it out.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2209" data-t="2209">You know, another another huge,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2212" data-t="2212">another big thing that I spend a lot of time on is my kids and my family.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2216" data-t="2216">And,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2217">36:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2217" data-t="2217">I got a you know, that's just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2219" data-t="2219">not there's no shortcuts</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2223" data-t="2223">to parenting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2224" data-t="2224">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2226" data-t="2226">teaching our children,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2230" data-t="2230">besides spending</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2231">37:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2231" data-t="2231">large amounts of time with them. I I kind of view it as, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2236" data-t="2236">maybe I'm not that great of a shot,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2239" data-t="2239">like, getting to the basketball analogy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2241" data-t="2241">But if I keep</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2243" data-t="2243">shooting the ball,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2244" data-t="2244">eventually,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2245">37:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2245" data-t="2245">I'm gonna have a decent number of shots go in.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2249" data-t="2249">And, also,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2252" data-t="2252">if I'm shooting the ball</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2254" data-t="2254">a lot,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2255" data-t="2255">I'll probably get better at shooting as well.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2258" data-t="2258">So that's kind of how I view, like, time with my kids.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2264">37:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2264" data-t="2264">It's, like, just gotta be around.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2266" data-t="2266">Gotta be around and try to be available as much as I can. Well, it seems like</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2272">37:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2272" data-t="2272">a good portion</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2273" data-t="2273">of the world has structured their entire life around primarily paying taxes first and parenting second,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2280" data-t="2280">especially in The United States. And the the public education system has really,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2285" data-t="2285">allowed for this</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2287" data-t="2287">to be a thing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2290" data-t="2290">And it seems like you're structuring</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2293">38:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2293" data-t="2293">your entire life around</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2295">38:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2295" data-t="2295">taking care of your kids first, paying taxes second. Yeah. Again, I it's it's it comes back to, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2303" data-t="2303">putting my energy into things</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2306" data-t="2306">that return</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2308" data-t="2308">energy to me,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2311" data-t="2311">and I've not really discovered</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2314" data-t="2314">how</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2315">38:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2315" data-t="2315">paying taxes gives my energy back to me. It's an extractive process.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2319" data-t="2319">It takes my life force and sends it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2322" data-t="2322">to kill people in other countries as far as I can tell.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2326">38:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2326" data-t="2326">In</span> <span class="cue" data-t="2326">yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2328" data-t="2328">In a very real sense,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2330" data-t="2330">you can either pay your taxes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2333" data-t="2333">or pay attention</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2335" data-t="2335">to your kids. And when you pay attention to your kids, you are putting in and receiving,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2342">39:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2342" data-t="2342">the right energy</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2343" data-t="2343">back</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2344" data-t="2344">from that, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2346" data-t="2346">experience that that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2349" data-t="2349">way of spending your time and you're not giving, you're not getting that energy back when you pay your taxes. They don't fix the roads.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2355" data-t="2355">They don't they don't help people with their taxes. They they launder it.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2361">39:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2361" data-t="2361">Yeah. And they and they give it to Ukraine and and Israel and so your every which is everybody else.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2367" data-t="2367">Right. People who Jeffrey Epstein connected them to. Right? Like, it's but I don't time just paying attention to your kids. I think so. You know?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2375">39:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2375" data-t="2375">And</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2377">39:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2377" data-t="2377">Not everybody agrees.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2379">39:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2379" data-t="2379">Well</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2380" data-t="2380">and that's fair. That's fair. But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2383" data-t="2383">we each gotta make our own decisions. And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2387" data-t="2387">I'll say since I started</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2390" data-t="2390">moving more in this direction</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2391" data-t="2391">and,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2393">39:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2393" data-t="2393">trying to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2395" data-t="2395">orient my life this way, it has</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2398" data-t="2398">I won't say it's been easy and or that it is easy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2402" data-t="2402">but I feel like the results that I'm getting are much, much better than what I was getting before. Yep.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2409">40:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2409" data-t="2409">So what what would you say to the average American that looks at you and they say,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2415" data-t="2415">here's this hippie guy riding around the bus. He's not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2419" data-t="2419">primarily focused on paying taxes. I'm working my ass off here trying to give the state as much money as it possibly can.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2426" data-t="2426">He spent time with his kids.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2429" data-t="2429">He doesn't have a white picket fence. He's not out there mowing the lawn and watching sports ball on Saturday and Sunday. He's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2438" data-t="2438">he's a threat to my way of life. Like, he</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2441">40:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2441" data-t="2441">is a challenge</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2443" data-t="2443">for my world view.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2444" data-t="2444">I just want him</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2447" data-t="2447">to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2448" data-t="2448">take on a mortgage</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2450" data-t="2450">and,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2452">40:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2452" data-t="2452">focus primarily on paying taxes just like I am. What would you say to somebody like that? I'd say</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2458">40:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2458" data-t="2458">they should probably read</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2460" data-t="2460">more Atlas Shrugged.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2464" data-t="2464">And that's that you know, like, I don't really have an argument for someone who says that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2469" data-t="2469">because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2470" data-t="2470">we're just on such completely different pages. And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2475" data-t="2475">in that way,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2478">41:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2478" data-t="2478">so yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2479" data-t="2479">Read some Atlas Shrugged and then check back. Yeah.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2483">41:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2483" data-t="2483">If if two in 2025,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2486" data-t="2486">if you're still</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2488" data-t="2488">proud to be a taxpayer,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2490" data-t="2490">you need to read Atlas Shrugged cover to cover twice a year. And that's the only way that you can be helped. And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2497" data-t="2497">if you if you try everything else,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2500" data-t="2500">except that,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2501">41:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2501" data-t="2501">my answer's the same. There's only one solution.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2504">41:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2504" data-t="2504">Right. And and and particularly,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2506" data-t="2506">I would say,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2509" data-t="2509">you gotta you it it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2511" data-t="2511">it's difficult,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2512" data-t="2512">but you really gotta dig into John Galt's speech and and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2517" data-t="2517">make sure that you</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2518">41:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2518" data-t="2518">catch what he's saying there because,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2522" data-t="2522">in my experience,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2525" data-t="2525">a lot of people that like paying taxes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2527" data-t="2527">haven't really done the work to understand what John Galt is saying in his speech.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2533">42:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2533" data-t="2533">Right. And so you we go this goes back to that you like to do things</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2538" data-t="2538">with intentionality.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2539" data-t="2539">And so when you pay your taxes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2541" data-t="2541">with intentionality,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2544" data-t="2544">it makes you, you know, it makes people suicidal, makes them depressed, it makes them question everything. So, like, when you sit down and you actually think about what you're doing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2555" data-t="2555">when you're using TurboTax</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2557">42:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2557" data-t="2557">and you pull up pictures of CNN on the news, you see what's going on in The Middle East, or you see what's going on in Chicago, or you see what's going on,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2566" data-t="2566">you know, with ocean mining,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2568" data-t="2568">you you say to yourself,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2570" data-t="2570">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2573" data-t="2573">I'm paying it. What?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2574" data-t="2574">For</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2575">42:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2575" data-t="2575">this? And if</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2577" data-t="2577">and it just doesn't make sense. You can't live that life anymore.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2582" data-t="2582">But if you, you know, so it's just a it's just a perspective thing. You're an intentional person and people who are proud to pay taxes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2589" data-t="2589">are maybe they should be more intentional with their how they spend their time. Well, you know,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2595">43:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2595" data-t="2595">if you're intentionally</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2596" data-t="2596">paying taxes and that really gets you going,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2600" data-t="2600">great.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2602" data-t="2602">But I I come back to, like, what is the fruit</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2605" data-t="2605">of whatever it is that you're doing? Whatever you're investing your time, your effort, your</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2611" data-t="2611">your</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2613">43:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2613" data-t="2613">your</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2614" data-t="2614">physical capacities,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2615" data-t="2615">your mental capacities, all of your yourself. What are you giving yourself to, and then what does it give back to you? And if it's not leading</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2624" data-t="2624">so,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2625" data-t="2625">you know, we talked earlier about,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2628" data-t="2628">again, about coming back to this religious</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2631">43:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2631" data-t="2631">upbringing that we've had,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2633" data-t="2633">I come back to what is it that I want in my life. I want the fruits of the spirit. I want more of that. I want love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2645" data-t="2645">self control,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2646" data-t="2646">whatever the other ones are that I forgot.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2649" data-t="2649">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2651" data-t="2651">I'm gonna put my energy and my time into the things that produce more of those things for me.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2657">44:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2657" data-t="2657">And if it doesn't produce that, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna keep doing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2662" data-t="2662">it because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2663" data-t="2663">Right. Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2665" data-t="2665">what's the point?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2666">44:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2666" data-t="2666">Right.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2667" data-t="2667">I I I will sum up my thoughts on this with would people say to me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2673" data-t="2673">forty hours</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2674" data-t="2674">of Bitcoin podcast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2676" data-t="2676">per week?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2677" data-t="2677">That's a lot of time. And,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2679">44:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2679" data-t="2679">my only answer is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2682" data-t="2682">I'm taking more out of forty hours per week than it's taken from me.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2686" data-t="2686">I'm getting more out of it than it's getting from me.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2689" data-t="2689">And when you put the in things into that perspective, it's like same with with cigarettes.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2694" data-t="2694">You know? I'm I'm getting more out of cigarettes, and they're getting out of me. And as long as that's true,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2699" data-t="2699">as long as that's true, you know,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2702">45:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2702" data-t="2702">it's a it's a good guide for,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2704">45:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2704" data-t="2704">smoking, you know, smoking ticks and how many to smoke. I think a lot of people need to ask the question, like, does it make you gator to do this activity too? It's important.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2713">45:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2713" data-t="2713">Even if nobody else knows,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2715" data-t="2715">even if even if only you know how gay it is,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2720" data-t="2720">should you still you know, it's</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2722">45:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2722" data-t="2722">time to slow down. Well, you know, and maybe maybe,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2728" data-t="2728">maybe</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2729" data-t="2729">being gay is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2731" data-t="2731">leads to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2733" data-t="2733">goodness for some people.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2735" data-t="2735">You know? Yeah. It it it might get them where they wanna go. I don't know. I would I would say my advice would be</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2742">45:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2742" data-t="2742">whenever you start feeling gay,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2745" data-t="2745">stop doing what you're doing</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2747">45:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2747" data-t="2747">and go hang out with your wife. Yeah. Well, we're I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm using gay as a slang</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2752" data-t="2752">term.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2753" data-t="2753">It's like a synonym for So am I. It's a synonym for lame. It's not like actually homosexual.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2759">45:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2759" data-t="2759">If you're if you're are if you're arguing with Matthew Crowder on Twitter at 10:00 at night, that's gay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2766" data-t="2766">Cool. Go</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2767" data-t="2767">go watch,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2769" data-t="2769">Netflix with your wife.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2771">46:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2771" data-t="2771">Like, a lot lot of homosexual men are pretty gay, you know? Like, Matthew Crowder. He's very gay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2780" data-t="2780">He's just sitting there just, you know, being and when I say gay, I mean lame, but he's also probably homosexual.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2786" data-t="2786">Probably had a special relationship with Peter Thiel back in the day.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2790" data-t="2790">But there's a lot of street men that act pretty gay too.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2794" data-t="2794">Like, predator acts pretty gay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2797" data-t="2797">And,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2797">46:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" data-t="2797">like, vaping makes you gay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2799" data-t="2799">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2802" data-t="2802">listening</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2803" data-t="2803">to little bubble music makes you gay. Yeah. There are some people.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2807">46:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2807" data-t="2807">So so if we're if we're going down this route where,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2811" data-t="2811">gayness is things that are lame, I would say that there are things that I've done in the past</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2817" data-t="2817">that used to be life giving, that they were giving back more to me than</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2822" data-t="2822">than they</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2824" data-t="2824">took.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2826" data-t="2826">And then at some point, that changed.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2829">47:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2829" data-t="2829">And they started taking more than they were giving.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2833" data-t="2833">And I think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2835" data-t="2835">maybe that's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2836" data-t="2836">that's something that I've noticed</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2839" data-t="2839">is that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2840" data-t="2840">some people</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2842">47:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2842" data-t="2842">seem to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2845" data-t="2845">they recognize that there's something in their life that they wanna change, and then they change it to a new thing,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2851" data-t="2851">and they find a lot of value in it for a while.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2854" data-t="2854">And then</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2855" data-t="2855">they just keep doing it even after</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2858" data-t="2858">it seems like it's lost the benefit that it once had.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2862">47:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2862" data-t="2862">Or I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2864" data-t="2864">I've noticed that in my life, and then it's like, okay. It's time to it's time to move on. There's something new that wants to be born here. Yeah.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2872">47:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2872" data-t="2872">Like, not wearing a suit to work. Like, it felt good when you were, like, a kid showing up at, like, McDonald's.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2879" data-t="2879">Well, I guess they make them dress up at McDonald's, so that's a bad example. But yeah. Fuck it when you're a kid showing up to whatever your silly job was, entry level job, like, not dressed up. But when you become a grown up, you wanna wear a suit to work. I think tattoos</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2892">48:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2892" data-t="2892">have kind</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2893" data-t="2893">of gone through that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2895" data-t="2895">that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2896" data-t="2896">trajectory as well a bit.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2899">48:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2899" data-t="2899">Tattoos are dangerous.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2901">48:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2901" data-t="2901">Because if it's a gay tattoo, it makes you gay for life. Yeah. Tattoos are a low time preference decision. You need to lower your time preference when you get a tattoo.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2911" data-t="2911">And a lot of people go in there. They're high time preference with their selection, and that's how you get, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2917" data-t="2917">barbed wire,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2919" data-t="2919">you know, things on around your arm, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2922" data-t="2922">move the the triamp stamp for women,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2926" data-t="2926">getting 58 k</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2928">48:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2928" data-t="2928">tattooed on your butt cheek if you're,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2932" data-t="2932">in a mean dang.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2933" data-t="2933">You know, it's You know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2935" data-t="2935">not to not to shit on tattoos. I think They'll get a Bitcoin tattoo until your second cycle. That's what I'm saying. They'll get a Bitcoin tattoo until at least your second cycle.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2945">49:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2945" data-t="2945">Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" data-t="2945">No. Yeah.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2947">49:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2947" data-t="2947">I I think there's there's nothing, like, bad to be said about tattoos, but the the problem is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2953" data-t="2953">a lot of people do it impulsively when they're young,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2957" data-t="2957">and it defines them for the rest of their lives.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2960">49:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2960" data-t="2960">Yeah. And they change. Yeah. I think that's that's what I'm getting at is, you know, if you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2966" data-t="2966">memorialize</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2967" data-t="2967">a particular</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2968" data-t="2968">period of your life</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2969" data-t="2969">on your body,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2971" data-t="2971">does that make it harder then for you to leave that period behind</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2976">49:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2976" data-t="2976">when it's time to grow up a little bit? I don't know.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2980" data-t="2980">I can't speak from experience with that.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2982">49:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2982" data-t="2982">Yeah. It sounds there needs to be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2987" data-t="2987">more rituals</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2989" data-t="2989">in our lives, in our communities</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2991" data-t="2991">as men for, like, alright.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2994" data-t="2994">You,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2995" data-t="2995">are going through your podcaster,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2998">49:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2998" data-t="2998">phase in life, and that's gonna hit you it hits everybody differently, and then you're gonna have to retire from podcasting,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3006" data-t="3006">and you're going to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3008" data-t="3008">you're gonna have to go into a new phase. And, like, I I think we're finding out what the what happens to podcasters when they retire. But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3016" data-t="3016">it's a it happens with MMA fighters. Right? Like, they can't or athletes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3020" data-t="3020">or</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3021" data-t="3021">musicians who kinda had just, like, a a short career.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3024">50:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3024" data-t="3024">They can't</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3026" data-t="3026">seem to move on,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3028" data-t="3028">and they keep trying to relive</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3031" data-t="3031">to trying to succeed</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3033" data-t="3033">in the role</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3035" data-t="3035">that, they've outlived.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3038">50:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3038" data-t="3038">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3039" data-t="3039">it's it's roles. It's about roles.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3042" data-t="3042">And what do you think your next role might be?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3046" data-t="3046">Or where do you think what you think your role is right now? If a father is out, you know, a father. You've made that clear. Yeah. So that's pretty,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3054">50:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3054" data-t="3054">you know, that's gonna be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3056" data-t="3056">ongoing</span> <span class="cue" data-t="3056">for quite a while, I think.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3059" data-t="3059">But as far as everything else, it feels like it's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3063" data-t="3063">always a a process of discovery.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3066" data-t="3066">Even the coffee</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3070">51:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3070" data-t="3070">the coffee,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3073" data-t="3073">endeavor</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3074" data-t="3074">is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3076" data-t="3076">so</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3077" data-t="3077">I I recently had this realization</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3080" data-t="3080">that my first,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3082">51:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3082" data-t="3082">like, the coffee shops,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3084" data-t="3084">I had a very clear vision</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3086" data-t="3086">for what I wanted to do</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3089" data-t="3089">and how I wanted it to go, what I wanted it to look like.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3093" data-t="3093">And that really</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3094" data-t="3094">was a hindrance</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3096">51:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3096" data-t="3096">to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3099" data-t="3099">certainly my happiness and my my ability to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3103" data-t="3103">enjoy the process</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3105" data-t="3105">because it never really lived up to my expectations</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3108" data-t="3108">no matter what happened, no matter what successes came our way.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3114" data-t="3114">It was always falling short of what I</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3117">51:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3117" data-t="3117">had in mind that it should be.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3119" data-t="3119">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3121" data-t="3121">so this time around, I've been trying it a little bit differently</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3126" data-t="3126">and more</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3127" data-t="3127">just responding to opportunities and interest as it comes my way</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3132" data-t="3132">and holding it loosely and openly</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3135">52:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3135" data-t="3135">as a kind of, well, we'll see what this thing wants to be.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3139" data-t="3139">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3140" data-t="3140">you know, never would I have imagined that I would be sitting here with you guys</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3145" data-t="3145">talking</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3147" data-t="3147">about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3148" data-t="3148">coffee.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3149">52:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3149" data-t="3149">Never would I have imagined that I would start a podcast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3153" data-t="3153">about coffee</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3154" data-t="3154">or coffee adjacent</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3156" data-t="3156">material</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3157" data-t="3157">with fundamentals.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3160" data-t="3160">You know, it's it's</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3162">52:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3162" data-t="3162">so I think where I'm currently at is just trying to stay open</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3168" data-t="3168">and keep my eyes open for</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3171" data-t="3171">the opportunities that come my way and then respond to them in whatever way feels,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3177" data-t="3177">like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3178" data-t="3178">I'm able to respond. You want optionality?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3181">53:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3181" data-t="3181">You value optionality?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3184">53:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3184" data-t="3184">Well and I don't I just I don't know. Maybe it's just me, my personality.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3188" data-t="3188">Also,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3190" data-t="3190">I don't think this is the time</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3192" data-t="3192">in, like, this the current</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3194" data-t="3194">epoch that we're in.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3199" data-t="3199">I don't think this is the time to be strapping yourself down to all sorts of commitments. Like, I feel like we're in</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3205">53:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3205" data-t="3205">a volatile season. We need</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3207" data-t="3207">to be able to respond.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3209">53:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3209" data-t="3209">If business cat and fundamentals are right,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3213" data-t="3213">there might be a pole shift, and you wanna be able to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3216" data-t="3216">drive south</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3218" data-t="3218">and get, you know, to a safe spot in the event of a pole shift or a fourth turning. If you if if we get a fourth turning,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3227" data-t="3227">you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3228" data-t="3228">load up the bus,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3230">53:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3230" data-t="3230">head to El Salvador,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3231" data-t="3231">or, you know, wherever, where wherever you wanna go.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3234" data-t="3234">It just seems like the future is extremely uncertain</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3238" data-t="3238">and that the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3240" data-t="3240">revolution</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3241" data-t="3241">will not be geographically</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3243">54:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3243" data-t="3243">evenly distributed.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3245" data-t="3245">So you want optionality. You don't wanna plant roots yet. You're you're not ready to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3249" data-t="3249">to to to start a homestead</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3252">54:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3252" data-t="3252">next to Rev Huddle. Yeah. I mean, that sounds great.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3255" data-t="3255">But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3256" data-t="3256">yeah. It's I mean</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3259" data-t="3259">and it's hard, you know, it it is hard to do</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3262" data-t="3262">what I wanna do</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3264" data-t="3264">without</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3265">54:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3265" data-t="3265">tying into some land somewhere.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3268" data-t="3268">But,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3269">54:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3269" data-t="3269">Real estate's a shit coin. We get that. Yeah. But I think there are ways</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3274">54:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3274" data-t="3274">Yeah. There are ways to you know, what I come back to is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3279" data-t="3279">not everybody's in the same boat where everybody feels like they need to be as mobile</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3285" data-t="3285">as I do. So that's where I come back to, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3287" data-t="3287">this is this is maybe the role that I play</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3290" data-t="3290">in that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3291" data-t="3291">I'm more available</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3294">54:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3294" data-t="3294">to come alongside</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3296" data-t="3296">folks</span> <span class="cue" data-t="3296">who,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3299" data-t="3299">want</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3300" data-t="3300">to build things</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3301" data-t="3301">together with other people.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3305">55:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3305" data-t="3305">I wanna build things with people. I don't wanna just be out here doing things.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3310">55:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3310" data-t="3310">You wanna be with the pioneers. You wanna you wanna go</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3313" data-t="3313">Yeah. And and be mobile with the you wanna go on the Oregon Trail with the pioneers, the El Salvador Trail, the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3321" data-t="3321">whatever you wanna call it, whatever that turns out to be.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3324" data-t="3324">Right. You wanna be out the edge at the fringe,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3328" data-t="3328">change air, you know, just changing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3330" data-t="3330">like, Richard said.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3332">55:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3332" data-t="3332">Yeah. Do you being a threat to, being a threat to the MPC lifestyle? You don't wanna stop being a threat to the MPC lifestyle. You know, I don't I mean,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3341">55:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3341" data-t="3341">view it as a threat or not. I I just think</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3345" data-t="3345">we need examples</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3346" data-t="3346">of people. So all of my life,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3349" data-t="3349">I've kind of felt like if I wanted to do the things that I wanna do,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3353" data-t="3353">I simply cannot do them the MPC way because it's too expensive. It's too extractive.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3360" data-t="3360">I'll never be able to do what I wanna do,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3363">56:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3363" data-t="3363">by following the rules</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3365" data-t="3365">per se.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3367" data-t="3367">And so,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3369" data-t="3369">yeah, here here I am. You know, here we are</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3373" data-t="3373">doing the things that we wanna do, living the life that we wanna live, and I would say to anyone who's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3379" data-t="3379">kinda sitting there</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3381">56:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3381" data-t="3381">in their Fiat job,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3384" data-t="3384">wanting</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3385" data-t="3385">like, dreaming</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3387" data-t="3387">of someday</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3389" data-t="3389">living</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3391" data-t="3391">whatever it is whatever their dream is.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3395">56:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3395" data-t="3395">You gotta do it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3397" data-t="3397">now. You gotta do it. You gotta start in some way now, and you gotta be willing to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3405" data-t="3405">think outside the box. You gotta be willing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3409" data-t="3409">to say no to the status quo,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3411" data-t="3411">to the to the way intentional. Done.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3414" data-t="3414">Yeah.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3415">56:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3415" data-t="3415">Otherwise, you know, like, the rules are not set up</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3419" data-t="3419">for you to accomplish your dreams.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3422" data-t="3422">The rules are set up to keep you away from them or to to,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3427" data-t="3427">like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3429" data-t="3429">set up roadblocks.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3430">57:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3430" data-t="3430">So The baseline is retarded.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3433" data-t="3433">You don't wanna be striving to be the baseline.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3437" data-t="3437">There you go. So was that always something that you were like, or is that relatively new that you started adopting that type of mindset?</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3445">57:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3445" data-t="3445">I think I just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3446" data-t="3446">I think I've always been this way.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3449" data-t="3449">I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3450" data-t="3450">I,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3451" data-t="3451">you know, I went to school for accounting,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3454" data-t="3454">and</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3456">57:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3456" data-t="3456">all through school,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3458" data-t="3458">I just was like, what is going on here? This is stupid.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3462" data-t="3462">This is just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3464" data-t="3464">a waste.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3465" data-t="3465">But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3466" data-t="3466">I knew I needed to finish,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3469">57:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3469" data-t="3469">and I think it was just because I needed to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3472" data-t="3472">really see</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3474" data-t="3474">how the whole system worked. But as soon as I graduated, I knew I could never be an accountant. I could never sit in that office</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3483" data-t="3483">and and push pencil</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3485" data-t="3485">for</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3486" data-t="3486">forty hours a week.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3490">58:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3490" data-t="3490">So, yeah,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3491">58:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3491" data-t="3491">I think I've always got It was it was value. You mentioned something about this earlier</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3497" data-t="3497">that it's, sometimes it is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3499" data-t="3499">good or it's valuable to have,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3502" data-t="3502">the, you know, these</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3504" data-t="3504">very</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3506" data-t="3506">extreme, like, options in these sides and these perspectives,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3511">58:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3511" data-t="3511">to be able to kinda, like, immerse yourself. And so it's, like, valuable to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3516" data-t="3516">try out the role of the accountant,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3518" data-t="3518">to try out these different roles because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3522" data-t="3522">you finally you're looking for something very specific,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3525" data-t="3525">and you can't articulate it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3528" data-t="3528">You experimented with doing gay you experimented with doing gay stuff. You experimented</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3532">58:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3532" data-t="3532">with</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3534" data-t="3534">Steve Coiner stuff,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3536" data-t="3536">and you're looking for something better.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3538">58:58</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3538" data-t="3538">And I guess</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3539" data-t="3539">growing up in a conservative</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3542" data-t="3542">religious tradition,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3544" data-t="3544">where there were lots of rules, there was a certain way of doing things.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3550" data-t="3550">Like, that started early on and then just always feeling like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3555" data-t="3555">I needed</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3556">59:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3556" data-t="3556">to be able to explore more. I needed to be able to have more</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3561" data-t="3561">optionality as you're saying.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3564" data-t="3564">So, yeah, I mean, it's it's been a theme.</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3566">59:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3566" data-t="3566">It's been a theme. What's your what's your favorite weird,</span></span></p>
   +
   +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3570">59:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Otis Bittmeyer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3570" data-t="3570">religious rule that you grew up with? I wasn't allowed to wear shorts or a tank top. So when I played basketball</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3577" data-t="3577">in middle school,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3579" data-t="3579">I was wearing sweats and a short sleeve shirt under my jersey, and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3584" data-t="3584">it was pretty hot. Interesting.</span></span></p>
   +

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