0:12Richard Greaser Jingle bell, jingle bell, jingle bell card with no battery. Jingle bell, jingle bell, jingle bell, jingle bell, stop. Bubbles of nonsense you can't unstop. We text these holes till we all just drop. A Christmas made from

1:07Richard Greaser ways. Tintzel on truth, but the shine decay. Grandma says, honey, enjoy the night, but I'm doom scrolling by LED lights. It's just nuts roasted in corporate rights. A festive fight for the cheapest flights. Oh, what plastic string. If Christmas is a mood, I'm buffering. But the slob still hits like everything.

1:55Richard Greaser Check the beat, repeat, repeat. Holiday eyes from a peppermint sweet. We chase that cheer like a limited seat even our lying sounds.

2:48Rod Palmer Welcome back to, another episode of behind the podcast. Today, it is just me, Rod Palmer, and I am speaking to Rob

2:60Rod Palmer from Bitcoin News. And, you know, if if you haven't listened to behind the podcast before, it's kind of a reference, and I'm sure you will understand this one, Rob. It's like inside baseball. It's a it's a just it's a it's a podcast about podcasters with podcasters, talking to other podcasters, in getting into the details inside the podcast industry.

3:24Rod Palmer So welcome to have you on. You're a a fellow potential journalist and podcaster. It's great to have you here.

3:32Rob Wallace Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure and, ready to divulge some secrets inside baseball, the industry nitty gritty.

3:42Rod Palmer Hell, yeah. So right now well, actually, I a little backstory. I don't know. Bitcoinnews.com has been around for a few years, and it's definitely risen a lot in the past maybe two or three. But in the early days, there was a conspiracy by, Dick Whitman, ghost of Dick Whitman,

4:03Rod Palmer who many people have seen on the timeline. And he he thought that you were the the the Krasenstein brothers. So, so just to clear things up, are you are you the third Krasenstein brother, or is that just a totally off base conspiracy?

4:20Rob Wallace I'd be a lot cooler if I was. I mean, who in, like, has the ability to turn a, Justin Feigert Justin Bieber fan club page into a political career of being Trump's number one troll during his first administration. Right? No. We have absolutely nothing to do with the Krasenstein's, but that was hilarious. I mean, Dick Whitman, he's a he's a frequent commenter on our stuff. Usually, something like, hey. This guy talks about crypto. Don't fucking bring him up at all, please, because this is Bitcoin only. And but he's I mean, Bitcoin has its immune system, and I feel like Dick Whitman is a is a part of that. You know? He's part of the predator,

4:59Rob Wallace milieu, and they they have a role to play. And I I I'm thankful for it because Bitcoin wouldn't be the same without him. But, no, we are not affiliated with the Krasenstein's whatsoever. No.

5:09Rod Palmer It's interesting though because in between, the Justin Bieber fan pages and, you know, whatever it is that they are now, they they were Bitcoiners.

5:25Rod Palmer And they famously, you know, were running into problems with the feds, with the law, and their dealings with Bitcoin. And I it makes me wonder,

5:38Rod Palmer do you think they're like the Bitcoin or, like, predator who goes to Dick Whitman that you just mentioned? If it came down to what they would put, free to Krasenstein's in the profile, if they needed a pardon for president Trump, I don't think you'd give it to him, though.

5:53Rob Wallace Free Krasenstein's day two. That's that's the new slogan right there. Yeah. I think, if if they were breaking the law in the right way and they were Bitcoiners, then they'd definitely be supported by, by the Dick Whipments for sure.

6:12Rod Palmer So you I mean, you report the news. Right? And Yes. You're at the intersection of this wave of media we've got right now. I call it plex slop, invasion and farming,

6:28Rod Palmer announcements. Everybody's begging for a Dennis Porter announcement. We haven't had one in months. How do you figure out what is

6:41Rod Palmer newsworthy and what is Plebslot? How do you do that?

6:46Rob Wallace Great question. And it's something that I have to face every single day, because there definitely is I mean, when you see someone who's as credentialed and as respected as a Bitcoin historian like Pete Rizzo, go down the path that he has the last year, I mean, there definitely is something to it. There's an allure there. Right? There's a calling from the plug slop abyss that says, hey. You're gonna get the the clicks, the Twitter bucks, the engagement that your dopamine deprived brain so desperately needs

7:21Rob Wallace if you go all caps, if you say buckle up, if you put a rocket emoji. And if you do those things, I mean, again, I'm at first, it was sort of annoying to me when we saw that real big change. I think it was this year. Right? I mean, I think it was early twenty twenty five that we saw this sea change in how sort of the Bitcoin news world was reported. And, I mean, power to them, it worked for them. There's a whole class of of of Twitter users that really, leaned into it hard and were able to get the impressions that they wanted and needed.

7:58Rob Wallace I I'm pretty proud of the fact that we did not lean into the all caps. Right? I mean, we use some caps. Yeah. Of course. But going all caps, if you're not Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To use yeah. Then then, I mean, what what are we doing here? I am I a credentialed journalist? No. I mean, I I studied international relations. Right? I mean, I've always found history in the news and geopolitics very interesting, and Bitcoin, of course, fits all right into that. But

8:27Rob Wallace there when you when you do start getting a certain amount of impressions, there is a sort of a there's a duty that you have to I think it I guess the best way to put it is, do you respect your audience or not? And I think I try to make an effort to to respect my audience. So, I mean, I I do like to add in some humor. Like, I do think some of the things and it's a process. Right? You figure out how to post online and what works and what doesn't. And I think, some of the things,

8:56Rob Wallace work better than others. The the PURESLOP, all caps, works well better than trying to do some sort of, edgy or nuanced joke. Nuance doesn't work. Right? Nuance doesn't work at all. But, I I think you gotta if you're gonna do this every single day, you gotta make sure that you're doing it because you enjoy it. It's fun, and, you're actually providing value.

9:16Rod Palmer Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's I think it's it's good to have a decentralized, diverse, choice of content and use to consume. I mean, if you want pure Plebs lock, you've got Rizzo, you've got Bitcoin magazine. If you want satire, there's those are available. But you people just want news. And you know what?

9:41Rod Palmer I would say it's like between you, you're kinda like the New York I mean, you you're the new you're Bitcoin news. You're the New York, paper or podcast of record. There we go. The podcast of record for news. And I would say Simply Bitcoin is, you know, the Miami, you know, podcast of record. Like, I don't know. Do do we need do we have an LA, a Los Angeles? Who's the wet West Coast podcast of record? And is there can you maybe we could fill out all the regions, honestly. Yeah.

10:15Rod Palmer I mean, Philadelphia, that's gotta be that's gotta be random little recap. Right? King of the king of Philly.

10:22Rob Wallace Yes. That that that works there. In turn I mean, I think I think McCormick is pretty Hollywood. I mean, he might be Bedford, but, him and then, of course, his predecessor, Danny Knowles. Daniel is very fashionable. He wears high end T shirts. And he

10:39Rob Wallace I think he I think he's pretty look conscious. But, I mean, that's the brand. Right? It's the black, the white, the pink, the, Nuvo marketing. They know what they're doing. Everything is very, polished.

10:52Unknown And I think that I would say that's the the LA right there.

10:57Rod Palmer Wow. I like that. Is there is there competition or how would you describe the competitive nature of being a journalist in Bitcoin in terms of, you know, other markets,

11:13Rod Palmer other cities, like, we just talked about. Other, you know, niches or, you know, you've got, like, your your the rage. Right? And they're, like, covering KYC and privacy stuff. Like, that's super paranoid tech brag. You know? Not and I don't I don't say that in a negative way. But you guys were saying it. Right? How would you describe it from your perspective doing, you know,

11:40Rod Palmer the news? Just straight up the news.

11:44Rob Wallace Yeah. It's, it's it's a competition, but, I mean, we're all on the same team. Right? And I think that, you've got to respect people for what they do because at the end of the day, we're all we're all playing the same game. We're all trying to fight the same fight. And at the end of the day, we are, doing it, I think, most of us, for the right reasons. Right? We want more people to know about Bitcoin. We want more people to be able to protect themselves and their purchasing power and, hopefully, believe in a future that is brighter than what we're living in today. I think that's the real goal of us Bitcoiner evangelists. But there is competition, of course. I mean, we all are pretty much fighting for the same

12:21Rob Wallace limited number of eyeballs of people that are actually generally interested in this stuff. And especially I mean, the hard part is is trying to make a business out of this. Right? Sponsorships. Bitcoin companies are notoriously frugal.

12:36Rob Wallace They don't like to throw the money around. And, of course, they can't print a coin out of thin air like these altcoins can, so they can't give you that either. And, you and Bitcoiners will also call you out the second that you promote anything that is slightly, out of bounds in terms of the Bitcoin ethos. So, I mean, it makes it it makes it difficult to to run a business, especially a sponsorship based one, an ad based one. And so you gotta find ways outside of the box to try to make it work, you know, consulting, helping businesses with their marketing, all that kind of stuff. So when it comes to making money straight off of content, it takes it takes years. Right? It, you gotta build an audience, and you gotta have people,

13:18Rob Wallace believe in you and trust you, and then you can actually get some companies to start opening their pocketbooks. But and and I think that's sort of where competition might come from. But, at the end of the day, I the only people that annoy me are the ones who I think are doing it the wrong way. And I would say it's, I would say 80% of of Bitcoin media is doing it the right way. So I'm not too much of a a curmudgeon about all this.

13:48Rod Palmer You know, do you guys do you guys wish Sailor would say stop? Do you ever sell your Bitcoin? Because you're right. Like, the Bitcoin industry, the companies around here, they are frugal. They are very, hyped with their pocketbook. And it's, you know, I it's it seems like a culture problem. And who sets the culture? It's Saylor. And he we need him to

14:13Rod Palmer we need him to let the podcast you to butt the pod comp understand it's okay to sell your Bitcoin to other Bitcoiners. Exactly.

14:24Rob Wallace Yeah, dude. I mean, I want a piece of digital Manhattan, each time I open up Riverside. Right? That's that's my right as a Bitcoin podcaster. I need a slice of your digital capital, sir. I don't want you to refine it. I don't want you to be the ExxonMobil turning that digital capital into, digital cash. I want I want the capital soft. Right? Like, peel me off a piece. Send it to me. I'll be I'll be a happy Bitcoin boy.

14:52Rod Palmer Hell, yeah. Did the Bitcoin news participate in paper Bitcoin summer or the, the the paper Bitcoin, you know,

15:06Rod Palmer freeze, so to speak, I guess? Was what was that like covering, you know, the, probably the coolest summer in in Bitcoin history.

15:19Rob Wallace Pretty much the coolest thing to ever happen to us. No. I mean, it was very interesting to see in terms of media, the amount of people that were sort of able to create a meteoric rise for themselves, literally go from, doing Twitter posts to podcast appearances, creating a podcast to being part of the management team of a publicly traded company. There was a a fast track for that this last year, and I think that is, like, the definition of people who really, I guess, quote, unquote, won paper Bitcoin summer. Right? I think from from my standpoint, it it sells clicks. Right? People really were into it, all these companies, because it's so funny being in the middle of a media. Right? I mean, like, $20.21

16:03Rob Wallace Bitcoin itself, Elon buying, like, the whole world's gonna be taken over. Then we smarter web company, Meta Planet. You know? There's a Spanish coffee shop buying Bitcoin. So I mean, it and in the moment, it feels like it's that there's a paradigm change. Right? That there's a phase shift, that things are forever going to be different rather than this is just this is a brief blip of time that is completely ephemeral, and things are going to revert very quickly, very harshly, and a lot of people are gonna have egg on their face. So, I mean, you report on it, of course, but I don't think that we were ever

16:44Rob Wallace treasury fanboys. Right? But, we've done some podcasts with, with treasury company people and whatnot. And I I mean, they're part of the the scene. They're part of the industry, so you gotta talk to them. But,

16:58Rob Wallace never go full treasury company.

17:00Rod Palmer Never go I mean No. That's for sure. I all these these. Some

17:04Rob Wallace of those Well, I'm 100% NSDR 0% Bitcoin because I wanna ride the fastest horse. It's like, come on, bro.

17:13Rod Palmer Oh, yeah. No. I'll be the first to tell you. The Paper Bitcoin summer parties are the best parties. All the hot chicks, it's it but you do have to deal with the Paper Bitcoiners, unfortunately, when you're at the Paper Bitcoiners parties. You know, though, you

17:32Rod Palmer thought I mentioned it. We talked about out here all 2025 and then, you know, going back to 2024, the importance of listening to podcasts, starting the podcast, and just the podcast in general. And it boy, you know,

17:50Rod Palmer that thesis was proven correct. Nobody has risen. Yeah. 2,025 was the year of the podcaster. For the better and worse, it end of two thousand twenty five now, we're we're seeing the

18:04Rod Palmer the consequences of giving podcasters too much power and control in society. Control of the FBI, control the media. There's very little

18:16Rod Palmer that isn't influenced directly or indirectly by podcasters and listening to podcasts. What do you think, like, how would you grade podcasters this year? And, you know, do is it is it about having the right podcasters in the positions and just not having the one, you know,

18:36Rod Palmer who, you know, bad pod plex lot podcasters in important positions or or do podcasters need to be more humble?

18:45Rob Wallace I mean, what's funny is that a lot of people who are, quote, unquote, the powerful and elite want to be podcasters. Right? Because they're it's it's a hack. The fact that you can actually become a habit into somebody's weekly rituals, and get an hour of their brain time directly speaking into their eardrums. I mean, that's power. Right? That's power that's never been had before. Kings of the past would die for that power to speak directly to their thousands of, citizens or subjects, for an hour a week. And it's it's so bad that, I mean, Chamath Chamath not only became a, a podcaster, but also a newsletter writer. Right? I mean, because he just it was too he he loves the power so much, that this job entails.

19:29Rob Wallace And I think another really telling sign is that the number two in the FBI, Don Bongino, he said today that he's stepping down to return to the microphone. Right? And it's, it was really funny to see the comments underneath his poster announcing his resignation saying one saying, we need you there. The next one saying, we need you on the microphone. Right? So if you're really in this once you've reached a certain level of power in society, you really are torn between a frontward facing position in society and being behind the microphone. It's, there's two wolves. Right?

20:04Rod Palmer Yeah. And, honestly, something that maybe not enough people think about is the massive l that the podcast fans of fallen podcasters feel in a moment like this? I mean, Dan Bogino talked

20:21Rod Palmer he talked very tough about would be he was going into this job. Right? And he got there, and he looked like he was like a month in, and they they had DanBot Gino on a podcast. And he looked like he had seen a ghost. And he was like, I I I he was kinda like, he didn't know how to answer. And he was like,

20:43Rod Palmer I wasn't ready for this apparently. That's what it seemed like. And now he's stepping down. He wants to be with his family. Do I think we as podcasters do need to, by his head, be a little bit more humble because

20:58Rod Palmer there's just more examples of it. Justin Betchler went on the what is money podcast with, Robert Breedlove. And, Robert Breedlove asked him one question, which is the, you know, the question he asked on every episode was my and and Justin Bachelor didn't have any answer for him. He spent the rest of the hour trying to figure out how to talk around it. We need to have answers. So be do you think before you start a podcast, that you need to have some answers

21:26Rod Palmer to help to help people point them in the right direction, give them good information? Or it's like, do you go like the what Bitcoin did Peter McCormack, and you have to ask all your guests for the answers?

21:41Rob Wallace I think I think there are two roads. I but, you can either have the answers or you can have the risk. If you've got the risk, if you got the way to carry a conversation, be aw shucks, poor little dumb me, please tell me the answer, but still make the other person laugh and have a good time and have the listeners be a part of that, enjoyment for that hour, then I think you you can that is a viable option. You don't need to have the answers, but you need to be able to ask the right questions.

22:11Rob Wallace And, yeah, have the risk, man. You gotta have the risk.

22:18Rod Palmer Do you do you have, like, any problems with the Plebs? Do do do Plebs ever, you know, try to pile in on your mentions, call you a scammer? Do you ever had run ins with them? I don't know if you ever seen Trailer Park Boys, but I kind of think of the Plebs like the bottle kits. They you just never know when they're gonna come around and just pelt you with empty, beer mail

22:42Rod Palmer beer and wine bottles. But do you ever have a run-in with them in your career so far?

22:48Rob Wallace Yeah. I mean, Dick Whitman, I think he could classify as a bottle kid, but he he serves his purpose and he's done well. And, like, nothing personal. Right? He's never called me a scammer, but he's definitely says that we we platform. If we if we say a quote from Scaramucci, then we're, quote, unquote, platforming Shitcoiner. So we, we we can't be doing that. One time, Plettador did get mad at us for, I mean, I I post most of the things on Bitcoin news, but I got one other guy,

23:20Rob Wallace who works with me. And he posted, a Arkham screenshot saying that maybe Hal Finney's wife had moved some coins. Right? And Pledder quote tweeted that, called us a bunch of grifters and pieces of shit for, reporting that news.

23:38Rod Palmer Oh, the I I didn't even have to ask if you've had run ins of Pledger. Everybody's had runs run ins with Pledger is especially journalist.

23:51Rod Palmer Pledger is especially, a sniper to terms. And you had any other run ins with him? Has he been a a consistent adversary?

24:04Rob Wallace Not even. Actually, he sort of steers clear of us in a lot of ways. I think one time he actually did give us a compliment back early on. I think this was, like, 2023. He said that, these guys are where's their engagement from and whatever, but they they sort of do it the right way, something to that extent. So, I mean, I I respect that. I I I took that. I actually I kinda felt good when he said that, you know. That was a that was a nice thing that Clutter said about us. But yeah. I,

24:35Rob Wallace oh, and then one time, he wanted to he was look looking for people who could do, like, follow some coin. I think he was trying to track if, like, Trump had sold that, cashless coin, right, that, Bailey had gave him on stage. And I offered to introduce him to some people who might be able to help him. He's like, no. I I no. I don't care. But, yeah, that's, I think, like, the extent of the

24:60Rod Palmer That's the I wanna do 101. That's interesting. I the compliment is funny. The idea of, like, the altruistic engagement farmer and or or something like that where it's

25:20Rod Palmer a it's just a lack of self awareness of pleader. He's just, you know, he's their engagement farming like everybody else. And it's sometimes it seems like they're like you these type of guys are the only ones who don't get they don't get it. They don't realize that their engagement for me tier, like, it's if you're on a marketing platform, like, if we if you think about how monetized everything has become and if you really think about Plov's Lab, but like how do you describe it? It is just those

25:50Rod Palmer breaking with the, the the siren and then like say some just a headline is very very obviously pointed headline where it's like, this post is about making money. And this platform is about making money and, like, all these ads in the the battles of, between the advertisers and Twitter. And, hey, just your very presence at this point, and not just presence, but

26:15Rod Palmer if there's any obvious heifer being put into your communication and your timeline and in the information in the content you're putting out there, Your engagement for me, like, that's that's what it is. And he's got more followers. He's got, you know, how many people in the role have thirty, fifty thousand followers. And it's that's why he's such a he's such a special character to me. He's just totally unself aware, but he's so good at it nonetheless.

26:44Rob Wallace No. I I mean, I respect it. You know? I I do. And what's really funny is how when you're online for six, seven, eight hours a day, I mean, these these people do sort of occupy some mental space because you see them all the time, and you see their thoughts, and you see their stances. And so, like, when you see that predator profile picture of, like, that anime guy, I mean, you, like, in your mind, I at first, I thought, what what if he's, like, some six foot four Indiana corn fed Chad who's, like, just holding down the law and has, like, really pure morals. He doesn't he doesn't he doesn't tweet like a Chad. I'll tell you that.

27:24Rob Wallace And then and then I saw your guys, like, AI rendition of him sitting amongst his, like, Pokemon toys, as a overweight basement dweller. And that really just completely threw me for a loop. I was like, oh my god. I've had this guy all wrong in my head maybe. And so you just don't know. Wow. You just don't know.

27:44Rod Palmer If you if you wanna be thrown for another just as crazy wild loop, I got a, a message on Telegram the other day from two different people in two different channels. One was from, from Labka, and one was from Shinobi. And they were both,

28:04Rod Palmer up close by Pledder where he was he was talking about basically going and copping some new, you know, fresh sneakers. And just the way it read and it was like, oh, no. We've got Pledger all wrong. Pledger is, you know, one of those weeb the black weeb's, like, the black days, you were super nerdy and into anime and, like, Bitcoin and shit. And it's like,

28:28Rod Palmer oh my god. It it could I could see that, and it just blows my mind. Wow.

28:37Rob Wallace A a black Midwest dude who's a nerd in high school. Wow. That does check some boxes. That could work there. And then just the anime picture is his profile just to really throw you off the scent, but that makes sense. You know what? Thinking

28:55Rod Palmer about Pleasure listening forty hours of Kid Cudi over and over fifteen years ago. Like, damn, it it starts to make a little bit more sense. You know?

29:06Rob Wallace Dude, imagine Pleasure, Lowcut, and Shinobi locked in a room for, for forty eight hours. I wonder what would be the the outcome of that situation.

29:18Rod Palmer Oh my god. The it's like the unmovable force or, like, the, unstoppable force versus the immovable object. It's like the unstoppable ray of sunshine versus the, you know, all massive black hole, and then you just have, like,

29:41Rod Palmer Shinobi. I don't know where he would fit in there except for it would he would probably be maximally annoyed. Like, it seems like those two others, like, clashing with each other would be the most annoying thing possible to Shinobi. And it would be his his retarded hell.

29:58Rob Wallace But I think the fact that the two of them both messaged you about a predator post just shows how you're really in the pocket, dude. Like, you're at the nexus of so much of this culture and community. And, did you ever think that you would find yourself in such a position of, like, really having your finger on the pulse

30:20Rob Wallace in such a

30:21Unknown strong way?

30:24Rod Palmer I think that that is where the forty hours per week I I try to tell people is you find out that forty hours per week is not a joke at the price you deserve. And if it it it's a portal into a a a new culture. A and you can like the more you listen, the deeper you go, the deeper you go

30:50Rod Palmer until ultimately you your life becomes a podcast. And it's only it's like a a cartoon where he wakes up and it's in the cartoon world. But once you realize that everything's a podcast, it's it's like a Home Alone where he's like sitting there. He's like, my family's in Florida. I'm in New York. And he's like, my family's in Florida.

31:13Rod Palmer I'm in New York. They're like, everything is a podcast. You're a this is how the pod big business, how wide podcasters have cut catapulted to the top of everything. It's because, life has become a podcast and and some people are aware of it. Right? And some people are not. Tiger is not aware that he is

31:36Rod Palmer a, foundational point of a of an of a podcast verse of, like, this whole culture. And it's it's that's what makes him so awesome. Like, that's what makes all these characters in the Google verse so funny.

31:53Rob Wallace Yeah. I mean, when you do listen to forty hours per week, these people seem to be a part of your actual life. Right? And there's really no other way to insert yourself into that story other than to start a podcast. You just made me think of something of, Predator being an accidental

32:14Rob Wallace podcaster. What you guys are super good with AI. What if you just, like, took crawled all of his tweets, fed it into an LLM, and then

32:23Unknown made a predator podcast based off of all of his posts? I mean,

32:29Rod Palmer is that not That's a good idea. Yeah. I it's funny that you say this because I was inspired by the Will Stancil show. If you're if you're if if you're aware of this Will Stancil show Will Stancil was, like, running for Congress

32:47Rod Palmer or, and maybe he was even, like, local con of Senate or something like that. In the in if you look it up, you can get all the details, but it was Summer and then Ortiz, I I think. But he was just, you know, super the most annoying, like, celeb slap version of, like, a woke lefty politician. It but to the point where he was one of those engagement farmers where it was just saying the absurd

33:14Rod Palmer positions in, like, a vile way just to get the rise because, you know, right wing Twitter had had blown up. Like, if you if you tweeted the wrong thing, you just got dumped me your retard of the week. I go to the equipment, the retard finder would come and find you and send in deep tag you and say, I found one. And it was embarrassing at first, and people were like, damn. Like, I can't believe you're coming. But now, then they realized, oh, I can, like, make a bunch of money by being a retard. And and being a convicted retard on Twitter so much money so to combat to like finally

33:49Rod Palmer I don't know neutralizing that wave is was like the Will Stancil show where they did they took that. They took everything and they created a sitcom, like a cartoon sitcom and it inspired a ton of memes like the it do be like that, Mr. Stancil.

34:08Rod Palmer And, it is it's really good and I thought that would Flight of her would be the next, like, Will Stansell. It'd be perfect. It's like he's the ornery the ornery grump, who's, you know, engagement farming from the in, like, that negative way like you talked about earlier. It's like you're not doing it in the right way.

34:28Rob Wallace He's coming from the right place, but he's not doing it in the right way. Right? No. I mean, there's something there, dude. Creating a whole AI universe based off of Vladimir's writings, I mean, that that that would drive clicks. That would drive clicks. You guys are always looking for a new project.

34:45Rod Palmer Totally. And that is, that is the brings up to them great, which is AI. Because that is the other angle. That is probably, if not probably, almost definitely

35:01Rod Palmer the catalyst to everything that's going on right now. You think about the music, the the sitcoms, the movies, whatever it is. It used to take, you know, very illy, talented, or skilled people all in one area with a ton of money, a ton of equipment,

35:19Rod Palmer cameras, like all this equipment. And the people write scripts, lawyers to litigate, who owns the rights to the story and blah blah blah. It just didn't create like a, you know, a movie. And now it's like people are just sitting out and farting around on chat GBT pumping out content that used to take, you know, to get untold capital and efforts to, produce. And now we're just all we have access to too much, too much slot.

35:46Rod Palmer And it feels like that's everybody all the announcements, the news, the the slop, but Barcini, the plexa, all that is just trying to keep up with the fact that we're really addicted to bullish announcements.

36:01Rob Wallace Mhmm. Absolutely. And AI definitely helps your output in creating bullish announcements. And that it is a great debate. Right? I mean and you see it so much now. It's especially if you're online a lot, you can pick up the telltale signs of it's not x, it's y. Right? And, of course, the the n dash. People have gotten caught onto that, so they're deleting the n dashes now. But there it's we are surrounded by it. We're swimming in it. We're drowning in it for sure. But I also think you're an idiot if you don't use this stuff, especially if you're in the content creation world. If you aren't leveraging the fact that you have a copy editor that's way better than you in terms of,

36:44Rob Wallace making sure all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed, then you're you're just gonna get left behind because there are people who can who can leverage it faster than you and just put out more. And it's a quantity game too. I think at the end of the day, the biggest thing is the input you put in first. If you have an idea, an outline, and have put in thought as to what you really wanna say, you're you're you're making good use of AI compared to those who just say, hey. Write me a story. Enter.

37:17Rob Wallace And putting that online. Because we're still early enough where that that does work to some extent, and it's it's really annoying and sickening to see.

37:25Rod Palmer How do you how do you use AI? Both for professionally and, like, what other, like, creative or personal proceeds? So, like, in do how much do those blend, And how much is it changing what you do?

37:49Rob Wallace Yeah. I mean, the my number one most used prompt is definitely edit for clarity. Right? I'll write a a tweet, and I know exactly what I want to say, but just plug it in there and see if it comes out better, just in terms of the way that it's structured. It's some certain word usage and whatnot. And

38:08Rob Wallace a good amount of the time, it's tiny bit better. Sometimes it's not. I just go with what I wrote. But, I mean, it's just that editor, right, is extremely important. When it comes to like, I I do a live stream on Mondays, Bitcoin News Weekly, 11AM eastern, tune tuning on x, tune on YouTube. But, yeah, I write a intro monologue. Right? And I know what I wanna say. I'll gather all my information. I will create an outline,

38:36Rob Wallace and then I'll just hit enter, see what it comes up with. And then I'll compare it to what I was gonna do and go back and forth, and it just helps you iterate faster and faster and faster compared to having to do it all from scratch like the like, in the olden days.

38:54Rod Palmer But you said it right there. In one of my most frequently used prompts is the same, edit for clarity or help me be more concise or help me emphasize, whatever to best communicate

39:12Rod Palmer the messenger problem and it has been extremely helpful and I you can tell other people are doing it like it is sometimes you notice that where somebody just is throwing straight AI slop on the timeline. I mean, you take out the em dashes, like, they don't even try to make it look, authentic.

39:34Rod Palmer And but some people but you can just notice everybody's it seems like people are getting better at communicating. And when an example I would give is, like, racism and, like, saying retard and saying slurs and, like, everything is, like, way more pot like, it's just if you look at the timeline that somebody from like 2017

39:57Rod Palmer or '18 like it would you would not believe it but the way people are able to be clear about and more precise in their language is is creating more tolerance or more leeway from everybody else

40:14Rod Palmer when they're being very sharp or very aggressive or being a very offensive and trying to kind of because they can sense the intent maybe a little bit better. I don't know. That's just kind of a theory. But AI but AI in general is doing a good job. It's not just translating Chinese to English. It's translating English to English because one of the most the biggest problems, especially in Bitcoin, is when we're talking about big ideas and very ambiguous terms like what is Bitcoin money, data, whatever.

40:44Rod Palmer People are just talking past each other left and right, and most of them don't even know it. But now it's like it was a joke on South Park. Everybody's just using AI to talk to each other. They're not really speaking anymore. But if it is what what is happening when anybody does that, it's like they're getting better at their job. They're getting better, communication at work. They're able to get more chicks on Tinder. It's it's having a beneficial effect.

41:10Rob Wallace Or, you know, yeah. And it's it's super interesting when you actually are reading something, and then you get halfway through, and you're like, oh, this is AI. But I'm actually sort of interested in this, and this does have something to say. So I'm gonna complete it, but there's still something in the back of your head. It's like, yeah. But this is AI. You know? Like, yeah. But these these and it does. There is sort of a visceral reaction to sort of turns you off to it when you know that AI helped even just a little bit. I think that's probably gonna go away in a year or two from now. People are just gonna completely, lose that. But the question again is, how much human are people gonna want? How much human are people gonna demand? Right? Is there gonna be a there's gonna be a your following feed, your for you feed, and there's gonna be a human feed that's only human?

41:58Rob Wallace Right? Like, is that gonna show up in the the coming years? Because, dude, I mean, especially the boomers, the boomers are gonna be aged out. But for the next ten, fifteen years, they're gonna be completely, mind effed by what's coming. They already are on Facebook, right, with shrimp Jesus and all this weird shit that they completely fall for.

42:17Rod Palmer Okay. Talking about Facebook. So I haven't been on Facebook, in years because they believe it was now is sometimes I think I'm missing out but I I did but I from what I remember of Facebook and like the Facebook boomers that I interact with

42:36Rod Palmer when they took away like the censorship and they were just gonna let free speech flourish on Facebook. I immediately thought of, like, how much AI was going to just totally, like, what you said, like, mind fuck the boomers. And how much it was trying to scam the boomers. I mean, they were gonna see video. I but we you you see it on Twitter sometimes, and it's it looks like the guy Brad Garlinghouse from Ripple, and he's, like, holding up a thing. It's, like, pay this address, and I'll send you this, and you'll get free XRP. And like just the amount of boomers that if you put a veteran and a poppy or a guy that looks like Trump,

43:15Rod Palmer with Jesus and like their face like hello, you know, please donate money here and we're gonna go, you know, save this and that. And I I feel like they're just getting one shot at left and right by AI slop on, on Facebook right now.

43:32Rob Wallace They are getting one shotted. I mean, my dad was a victim almost a victim of a scam. Then somebody called him and said, hey. We're from the power company. We're gonna shut down the power in your house unless you go down to the local convenience store, go to the Bitcoin ATM, and send us Bitcoin. Right? And that to somebody who's older, you get them flustered. They're like, oh, what do I need to do? And they just they they're very quick to to because they grew up in a different time. Right? It was a much more higher trust society than it is now. And when you when you couple that with

44:05Rob Wallace the advancements in AI, where they're going to be able to especially people who speak online, even just a little bit, they can be able to mimic your voice seamlessly. And there's already these scams where people are getting called and they're saying, mom, I need help. I'm in a dire need. They're I'm in danger. If you don't send money right now, they're gonna cut off my finger. That that's happening right now. Everybody, I think, go home for the holidays this year and make a code word. Put all your phones in another room, no electronic devices around you, and have a family code word where if anything happens like that, you'd say, what's the code word? And you either know it or not, and you can save yourself a lot of heartache in case something like that happens in 2026.

44:47Rod Palmer Totally. So the boomers are gonna deal with scams. I mean, and they're they're not handling it well so far. But the other thing is, and you touched on this a little bit, which was if you see something and you can sense, you could detect that it's AI and not human, just not human, and you're, like, repulsed by it. But, like it's gonna get easier and easier to kinda disguise that and couch it so you keep you don't necessarily know and be but my point was or I I guess my point is based on what I was saying earlier is that,

45:23Rod Palmer there is seemingly a lot of value being added, not just to, you know, to GDP, not just to the stock market. Like, it people are wondering, is this a bubble? How are you? How are they gonna make up with this much productivity? I yada. And I

45:41Rod Palmer I think if you really look closely, you can see that it's it is making things better, more efficient, communication faster, smoother. But

45:53Speaker 5 with the ability to help people see the benefits

45:59Rod Palmer of AI without them realizing that it's AI or not thinking about the fact that it could be AI, then so hopefully, you they kind of can get you can get them the news in a way that they will start to see as valuable. And then we make make good decisions from again and be less repulsed by the fact that

46:27Rod Palmer they're listening to chat GBT or Claude or something like that. Because people think that they're gonna worse we're gonna worship AI, but really, it's mostly everybody having to tell ChatGPT over and over again to stop being retarded. Like, you're an idiot. That's not the answer. Right? Like, people aren't trusting AI the way maybe we thought they would.

46:48Rob Wallace They're not trusting it, but, again, this is the worst it's ever gonna be. And I will admit that some of my forty hours per week of Bitcoin podcasts have been replaced with AI podcasts in the last year. A good amount of them, you know. And you can a lot of people dismiss it still, but, dude, if you you listen to these people at these top labs, like, no. They're worried about PDoom, dude. It's it's all about PDoom. What's the probability of this thing literally destroying the human race? And if it's not gonna destroy the human race, what is what are we gonna do when all

47:22Rob Wallace work is relegated useless because the computers are smarter, faster, better, cheaper than any human could do anything, whether it be host a podcast or fix a toilet. And that I mean, that's a question that I'm really, sort of wrestling with in my mind. What happens five to ten years from now when shit, man. I mean,

47:48Rob Wallace there are people that there's gonna be AI podcasters that are indistinguishable from humans that can speak a lot more eloquently than me on anything. So the is the podcast industry in danger, and what do we do to create a moat around us?

48:06Rod Palmer Well, I think the moat is what we talk about on this on this show is podcast entropy. The entropy in the types of information, the type of data, type of podcasts. You got privacy podcasts. You got astrology podcasts, macro, current events news type podcast. You've got libertarian podcast, Austrian. I get you you could touch every sphere, every part of the the universe.

48:33Rod Palmer And if you get enough, you know, new perspectives and and, you know, almost chaos in the order of your of your podcast. You create a moat because it's, you know, you're not just like, at this point, like a professional sports has been ruined by gambling. All all college football has been, you know, it's being ruined by NIL. The NFL's ruined by the NBA, like, the a head coach or the guy you have arrested in the middle of the season or before the season.

49:01Rod Palmer Everything's being ruined, but Bitcoin is too it's too spread out. It's too you can't crack it. You can't ruin it with, the the key. I can't close in on it quite as easily. And it's sort of this sort of runs around with, like, the idea of variety.

49:22Rod Palmer So I guess my next question is, like, are you when it comes to AI, are you monogamous, or are you, like, you're just using Google Gemini, ChatGPT, Claw, all different ones? Are you trying everything out?

49:33Rob Wallace Dude, Google just stole my heart, dude.

49:36Unknown I was a That is what seems to be the guys. Oh my god. Dude, Google's so much better. It's just so much better. Like, you can In faster. Crazy?

49:45Rob Wallace Oh, I mean, I was with my dad this weekend, and, here's a little Rob Wallace lore. My grandpa, Robert Lee Wallace junior,

49:58Rob Wallace he was on the team the 20 man team that helped make the transistor at Bell Labs in New Jersey. And so he's got some patents to his name. So I just said I spoke into Gemini into my phone. I said, hey. There's a scientist, Robert Lee Wallace junior. He worked at Bell Labs. He worked on the transistor. Make me an infographic of him and his patents. And two, three minutes later, just made this really beautiful, like, accurate,

50:25Rob Wallace poster, of of my grandpa and what he did. And it's just like, what the hell is this? Unbelievable. Absolutely, like, the amount of time, efforts,

50:37Rob Wallace and different talents that would have been needed to put that all together. And now it's just boom in your pocket, and, we take it for granted. But we are living really in unprecedented times. And again, it's as worse as it's ever gonna be right now, and it's accelerating. It's it's getting faster.

50:54Rod Palmer Yes. Okay. And I guess for, you know, we've gone we kinda got to a pretty good understanding

51:06Rod Palmer of what's going on in the world, like how the Bitcoin industry, the slop, all that. But it it all boils down to it feels like you just say that things are accelerating. Some people will pop the memes before turning. It feels like we're going through the fore turning. Institutions are getting, like, the spot, like, the LA city government, you know, the fires a year ago. Burn everything down. They didn't have any water in the fire. They were totally incompetent. Wrote Providence, Rhode Island,

51:34Rod Palmer totally incompetent. The New York City mayor's race was between, you know, sort of like the three stooges basically up there. And one of the stooges won. And every time a new historically respected institution is put in the spotlight,

51:51Rod Palmer it seems like in the past year or so. It's nothing but a bunch of em embezzlement and and plus slot. And same thing's happening in the media culture at all. Where are we going?

52:07Rod Palmer Bitcoin is trading at what not what we expected a year ago. Totally disappoint paper Bitcoin summer disappointment. Seems like this is a lot of chaos and disappointment, but is it going to get better soon or worse? Do you, follow any of these astrological

52:27Rod Palmer fourth or any of these theories? You which one do you think explains where we're at? What is your perspective in that context?

52:37Rob Wallace Yeah. I mean, I've been a pretty hardcore conspiracy theorist, I guess, the best way to describe it, since the financial crisis. Right? Since I was a a young young lad. And that really when I went down the rabbit hole for the first time, I thought that the we were gonna have hyperinflation in America by 2012. Right? And I I was I was prepared to have to go out and fight for your meal and live in this the stone age,

53:03Rob Wallace since then. But, I mean, the twenty tens were not that. Right? It was, hipsters and Facebook and Instagram. So what's funny is when you're been prepared for the world to sort of blow up for so long and it doesn't, you get a little jaded and you start to think, okay. Maybe they can keep this game going on along a lot longer than than you thought you could. But what we are seeing is the the constant

53:28Rob Wallace I think the right word is in stratification of of pretty much everything in the in the physical world. Right? The world of atoms is getting shittier. The world of bytes is getting better. And I think that is the what we must rebel against, the desire to just dive deeper and deeper into the world of bytes and forget this physical world that we have, that human beings have

53:54Rob Wallace inhabited for millions of years, and that that which we are involved evolved for. Right? Because that's that's where our happiness comes from, when we satisfy these these biological and emotional needs. And, the worlds of bytes can hijack that and make you think you're getting what you need, but, you're you're really you're lying to yourself. So you got

54:19Rob Wallace to at the end of the day, I'm I'm sort of a a Buddhist in a way that I think that life is what you make it. Right? It's all in your head. It's between your two ears in terms of how good or how bad your life is. And so, it's up to us to to make that personal decision and that responsibility to make your your life what you want. But, yeah, there's no denying that the intunefication of the the outside world is is is happening. And we are distracted, very easily distracted by the roller bites.

54:52Rod Palmer Yeah. It's like a a digital flood. And luckily, we have a an anchor if we're seeking digital scarcity again. I think it's kind of we're overloaded with so much information.

55:06Rod Palmer It's it's almost like we I was joking because, we jumped on the last podcast that Arizona is on and Huddl. He always makes some goofy declarative statements. He he likes to announce things too in his own weird way. Is that He he wanted to he's one of Bitcoin news. He's blocked Bitcoin. He's just Of course. Of course.

55:27Rod Palmer He said, like, well, he's, like, making money already. It made Bitcoin or make boobs hard to see again. And I I lost it. I was, like, why would you wanna do that? But it may be we we have too much access to good content, hot content, interesting content, flashy content. And we gotta, like, anchor it back and make it scarcer again or because not so there's there's less of it

55:53Rod Palmer so that it's value we know how to value it better. We just need to relearn how we need to learn how to value information better at at a we gotta learn fast. And I think that it things will start to sort themselves out from there. I hope I hope so.

56:11Rob Wallace Yeah. I think it as libertarians, as Bitcoiners, we don't wanna tell anybody what they can't do. Right? But we also I think it's important for us to create a community ethos where we say

56:27Rob Wallace some things are not that good for you and should be shunned, and, some things should be embraced. And I think, yeah, boobs on the Internet are probably a little too easy to to find if you're eight, nine years old. And I think that's something that we should try to

56:47Rob Wallace uphold that, they shouldn't probably be saying that. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's funny. It's something like the the Tradcon ness of Bitcoin Twitter. I think I definitely saw its heyday in 2122. Right?

57:02Rob Wallace And I think it's sort of gone away a bit, over the last couple of years. Sort of, I guess, replaced by the suits. But, yeah. Do you remember Laser Hole, dude?

57:14Rod Palmer Oh, yeah. I don't I totally remember Laser. I think he's still I think he's still Puddles Singh on a corner in Noster, but I haven't seen him on on Twitter in a few years.

57:25Rob Wallace He's on Twitter, dude. Not Oh, he is. But I think, like, he doesn't even have, like, a name. He just has, like, a satellite emoji. It's, like, his his tag on his side. Still doing the masculine frame? But that's what I was going at. Yeah. Like, he went super hard into the the masculine frame thing, and, it's that felt like a little bit too much. Right? Like, okay. If you wanna do that in your own house, like, that that's cool. But it just, it was a little little bit off putting. So there there's a time and place for for everything. But, I think there's also a big difference between telling people

57:58Rob Wallace what you do and telling other people what to do.

58:03Rod Palmer How do you how do you prevent or do you have any tips even to prevent how do you prevent yourself from crashing out? There's a lot of people crashing out and I think there's gonna be a lot more people crashing out next year. And people are crashing all the rest. Like, I would say Laser Huddle crashed out. And he wasn't it was masculine frame. It was, like, get on zero. So basically, beyond zero fiat only holding and spending Bitcoin.

58:30Rod Palmer And it was just it it's constant extreme, like, easy period test to fail. I don't know, gimmicks, whatever you wanna call it. It's just very hard to sustain that much discipline, that much,

58:47Rod Palmer warping discipline on on Twitter. And how do you, like what do you you just have to learn to choose your battles? Like, what's what's your advice?

58:58Rob Wallace Yeah. I think it's, yeah. When you're in this world, this lifestyle of being online a lot, it really doesn't bode well for you if you're the kind of person who gets worked up too easily. And, I mean, I think you guys have sort of made a name for yourselves by picking out those people that do take themselves too seriously and, making it clear to everyone else that they do. So yeah. I'll go the the corny answer and say meditate. Right? I do think that just having

59:27Rob Wallace having some time during the day where you're not on an electronic device, where you're not consuming anything else, and you're sort of just, can you be comfortable in a room by yourself for twenty minutes not doing anything? Some people are horrified of that. And if that's who you are, you need to start working on that ASAP because you are making yourself way too vulnerable to outside forces and the world at large. And when it comes to being online and AI, you are the perfect soon to be victim. Yeah. It's like, how how comfortable can you be with with your sitting there by yourself with your own thoughts? And if if you can if you can do that, then you can you have enough mental armor,

1:00:09Rob Wallace psychic armor to to go out into the the big bad world of of the the online world and and fight your battles.

1:00:19Rod Palmer The other if you if if one risk is crashing out, the other one is probably chat, GPT, or AI psychosis. And I I don't know the answer but it seems like meditation might be the answer for both and it seems like if if you can't go out and sit alone with your own thoughts and you you probably bordering on crashing out. But if if you can't go out and sit alone with your own thoughts because

1:00:48Rod Palmer you don't have any of your own thoughts anymore, maybe that's chat cheeky psychosis. I don't know. Like, how do you think about that? And because I think anybody who's used AI enough probably can see

1:01:01Rod Palmer the dangers or the risks, from getting because chat gbt psychosis is probably a spectrum. But yeah.

1:01:08Rob Wallace Have you watched any YouTube videos on chat gbt psychosis?

1:01:12Rod Palmer I've I've gone on that. Yeah. I've I've I've found I've tried to find some good ones, and there was, like, some guys in Silicon Valley, some big tech guys that were exhibiting chat GBT psychosis and and also, you know, just goofy plebs and both of them are crazy to to see.

1:01:29Rob Wallace It's I think the the first step is to I would never use a chatbot as a therapist. Right? I I'm pretty hesitant to put in personal information,

1:01:43Rob Wallace especially that could give them a psychological profile of of myself. They they know that I like Bitcoin and that I like to edit for clarity. They definitely know about that about me. But, it I think and the the sickle fancy of these, chatbots really turns me off. It's it's so gross. Like, the second it's like, oh, that was amazing. Like, I've never you you really nailed it there. And I'm just like, shut the fuck up, dude. Like, no. I I don't want that. Stop being a sif for me, dude. Shut up. But there are some people who really like that. And, I mean, there's a lot of lonely people.

1:02:16Rob Wallace And if you're willing to to to bear your soul to a chatbot, I think then you're again, you're making yourself a prime victim to fall into it. Because a lot of this chat, GBT psychosis, is, that people thinking that they've come up with some novel way of viewing the universe. Right? That they've broken through to a new level, that they've unlocked their Tachibuty, and it is now trans

1:02:43Rob Wallace transmitting the the secrets of of deep universal truth to them. And that's that's a repeatable story that many people have have gone down. So if you find yourself thinking that you've had a breakthrough again, these things are not good at breakthroughs. Right? They're they're good at rearranging and remixing and referencing. But in terms of finding

1:03:08Rob Wallace new physics, maybe they can at the Frontier Labs, but you're not you're not doing that on on chat g b t. So so catch yourself there if you find yourself

1:03:16Unknown thinking you found Yeah. Totally good physics times two. Yeah.

1:03:23Rod Palmer You you're probably not going to impress ChatGPT and so it's like you're in Vegas and like a hot chick comes up to you and is trying to ask you out you know it's she it's there's a game there. Right? So, like, if chat g b if you're if you think you're teaching chat g b c about quantum computers and you think you're teaching chat g b t, about how it's possible to to get fusion, whatever it is and chat g b t is like, wow, like, you are the smartest person. I'd ever thought of it this way before.

1:03:53Rod Palmer That is the stripper telling you that you're interesting. They're telling you that she likes you. Right? Just remember that. This is all about money. Everybody on Twitter, everybody is posting all the podcasters, ChatGPT, all of it, all the AI, the hot chicks that with AI voices. Lynn Alden, her newsletter.

1:04:14Rod Palmer It's all about money. So just just keep that in mind. Probably, hopefully, won't get ChatGPT's psychosis and crash out.

1:04:25Rob Wallace Is it all about money, or is it all about attention? And is attention the new money of the twenty first century?

1:04:34Rod Palmer There you go. Yes. Yes. And then what is it? Very wise Bitcoin. Did, why does that incorporate Bitcoin, encompass Bitcoin? Because Bitcoin is is all about attention. Like, hey. Everybody's got their attention on Bitcoin. Then they will it's all about the drama. It's all about what's going on with every ten minutes. Everybody's looking at everybody's paying attention. And when you you pay attention to things, it's harder to fuck with it. It's harder to be fucked with. So attend yeah. The attention economy. What the things that have the most attention will be

1:05:08Rod Palmer that you it's it will be it's they'll be valuable. There you go. Got it.

1:05:14Rob Wallace How many people in terms of, Bitcoin, Twitter, how many people do you think there actually are on there that that give it enough attention to know to know the characters, to know the players?

1:05:30Rod Palmer Less than 10,000. And, like, even of the 10,000 who are, you know, acute or you they're somewhat aware. Right? It's like

1:05:42Rod Palmer a third of that knows, you know, 50% of the Dukalverse characters, right, or of the story or gets the joke. Right? And I'd say none of us really get the full picture of the joke. Right? Again, that's probably why it's fun is it's small enough that it's, the answer to your question, yeah, just a few thousand.

1:06:10Rob Wallace And it's it's funny because it is it is a small group, but there is a disproportionate amount of reach. Right? I mean, David Bailey's hanging out with the president. The like, we we do, I think, hit above our weight, and that

1:06:29Rob Wallace makes your job so much more fun and entertaining. Right? If it was just some other small group and we were into racing RC cars in in a basement, it'd be very different than if we're dealing with the the next world reserve asset.

1:06:43Rod Palmer Right. And it's all held together by a a a couple of group chats. You know what I mean? Like a car or a couple of group chat platforms. You probably know that and we talk about this on the episode. I had a whole episode with Mars about group chats and, like, the

1:07:01Rod Palmer the influencer group chats, how they work, you know, who's joining them, what the behavior is, like, how the plebs are are bickering and fighting and competing in the group chats. But, like, this whole little ecosystem, they're really, like, the if it becomes the reserve currency, it's all held together by,

1:07:22Rod Palmer by group chats. Right now, like, that's probably one of the new institutions of Fortran.

1:07:28Rob Wallace Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, decentralized communication. Tell me, dude, the the vibes. Is it bear market vibes in the group chats, and do group chats get better in bear markets?

1:07:39Rod Palmer Yep. This this is this is a huge question. We are definitely in a group chat recession. The next few weeks are gonna be, they're gonna tell a big story because the next two weeks are traditionally, like, especially United States, very people few people are working. They're kind of laying low, hanging out with their families, traveling. And even if they are at work until the first of the year, nobody's really getting a whole lot done, and nobody's even having to pretend. And ChattyPT is probably going to,

1:08:12Rod Palmer get some time off. But if the group chats do not pop back up the next two weeks, it's bad news, I think, for 2026. And I think it is because and I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's it's, necessary natural thing. I think that we didn't know how to value group chats. We didn't value group chats nearly as much as we should have. We let way too

1:08:37Rod Palmer many bad people into our we we let way too many bad people in, and we joined way too many that, we shouldn't have. And 2026 will be about being proud of the group chats you're in and being proud of your brothers in your group chat. And if we get to that again, the group chats will flourish. It's like the strong times

1:08:58Rod Palmer make, the strong men make good times, that whole thing. You could say this thing about group chats.

1:09:05Rob Wallace Have you had any group chat infiltration? Have you had any scammers try to get into your to group chat and, mess with people?

1:09:16Rod Palmer No. Not yet. The break very careful about that. And I think that's another important aspect is, fed resistant or scammer resistant group chats are very important. You definitely have to you have a captcha up to keep, like, the spammers who are just posting Solana stuff, like, spamming every group chat they can. But,

1:09:39Rod Palmer no. And I won't know what the key to success there is. Just,

1:09:46Rob Wallace Well, I've got a group chat scammer horror story. Did you hear that? So What's your what's your Our local Bitcoin meetup, we've had a group chat. Right? And about a 100 people or so were there. And, I mean, there are definitely some there's always some leaders of the group chat. Right? Some people with more reputation that precedes them. And so some new guy joined, and

1:10:11Rob Wallace somebody who has who's on Bitcoin Twitter is has a little bit of a following. He's he's in our Bitcoin meetup. And the new guy got DM ed on the side by, quote, unquote, him. Right? And the new guy, was super happy to be DM ed by him, and the guy the just call him the OG in our group, messaged him and said, hey, man. I'm about to go up and buy a bunch of miners, but the guy won't take my cash. He only wants Bitcoin. Could you just front me some Bitcoin right now? I got some reason why my wallet won't work. Just like, front me some Bitcoin, and,

1:10:47Rob Wallace I'll, I'll make you good.

1:10:50Unknown Dude, the guy lost my 0.1 Bitcoin, dude.

1:10:55Rod Palmer That's that's stop adding that. You gotta yeah. It's hard. You gotta watch out for that. But, you know, I think that when people start to

1:11:09Rod Palmer put the group chat spat together again, it'll it'll look a little bit different next time. It'll be, group chat three point o or group chat two point o. That's what we're at right the era of group chat two point o. And now, you're gonna have, like, e cash, you're gonna have more lightning, enabled you see, group chats are becoming

1:11:29Rod Palmer you could set up your own mint, you could group chat credit union. So you all have to DM something on the side. You say, hey, in the group chat where everybody can see, I need a loan to get some minors. Everybody's like, alright. I'll sign that, that loan in this federation or whatever. Right. So it's not even damn done. They already have it. It's totally Fed. Yes. Yeah. So people will start to actually build on these, hopefully. It's like you said, we can iterate faster.

1:11:57Rob Wallace Yeah. And it will be Noster based, and, UX will suck. And you'll only see half the messages. And it'll be great. It'll be more raw, and you'll really appreciate the messages that do come through.

1:12:09Rod Palmer So, like, cool, man. Is there anything else, how can what what kind of content what kind of podcast are available, on your platform and what's coming and what should people what should people look for?

1:12:29Rob Wallace Yeah. So we got the Monday livestream, Bitcoin News Weekly. You are a former, guest on there. New person each Monday, we break down the newsletter, that comes out that Monday morning. Great to go over the headlines, the biggest, news in Bitcoin, get a fresh perspective from, new guest each week, and it's a tight hour. Lot of fun. All the guests say they have a good time when they come on, so that's my sign that is we're providing some value there. A new podcast interview comes out every single week on Wednesdays on,

1:13:00Rob Wallace YouTube, Fountain, Spotify, Apple, and that's fun. And then on Fridays, we started a new show. We're trying to bring the fun back to Bitcoin, and everybody does a podcast. Everybody interviews. We want to make it more game show like, talk show like, add in a little levity to the situation, give out Bitcoin each show, Make a sort of community about it. And, yeah, that's the Friday stack. Happens 12 thirties on Fridays on,

1:13:31Rob Wallace on x and all the other live streaming platforms. I still haven't figured out how to stream to Nostr, so I might need to pay you some stats for a lesson on how to do that. But one day, I'll get there. I I just got on Stockton. So give me some time, and then I'll get on Noster, I guess.

1:13:46Rod Palmer Well, anyway, the group chats and everything else is in a bear market, in a recession. Let me tell you. Now, Noster, I am I I had tried been trying to load my notifications on primal since October of seventeenth, and I still can't see them. And I think it's because I got into one of those health threads. And so if you get on Monster, you gotta it's like the worms in, Tremors. It's like these health threads. If you get sucked into one of the your user experience has has been nuked, but I wouldn't worry about an Oscar. Hate to see it, guys, but you gotta fix that shit. But I like the game show idea.

1:14:24Rod Palmer I think we need more game shows. If you need Steve Harvey, if you need that orange pilled Family Feud, we need everything. Yeah. It was fun. But Yeah. There's reason those things are on TV every day. People love game shows. People wanna win Bitcoin. Give them a chance to. Yeah. We got we're doing Mount Rushmore segments, tier lists,

1:14:44Rob Wallace trivia, prediction markets, you know, all that kind of stuff. Just have some fun with it. We're a little bit too serious sometimes, so

1:14:54Unknown let's let's enjoy ourselves.

1:14:55Rob Wallace We've got the hardest money in the world. We've got the sovereignty on our side. Why not bring back the levity?

1:15:03Rod Palmer Alright. I'll be up. Rob from bitcoinnews.com. Thanks for joining me, man.