0:00Rod Palmer Welcome to the podcast. This is Rod Palmer back from vacation in Biloxi, Mississippi with my wife and kids. Of course, we stayed at the casino, because casinos are the only hotels with smoking rooms where you could smoke inside. But it was great. The weather was wonderful. The beaches were were beautiful.

0:19Rod Palmer But I'm glad to be back for the fifth episode of our new Bitcoin podcast, Behind the Podcast, where we, my cohost, and, the editor of Beagle News, Richard Grieser, and I, we interview influencers in the Bitcoin podcast community. And if you listen to the second episode of Behind the Podcast, you will remember that Shinobi insisted that Bitcoin mini script was invented.

0:44Rod Palmer Well, tonight, we're talking to the man who thinks he discovered it. We're talking to Rob Hamilton. Welcome, Rob. Thanks for having me, boys. How are you doing, Richard? How was your New Year? How how was your New Year, Rob?

0:57Rob Hamilton My new year was great. I I rung it in at the the Podkoff ball down at, Sailor's Mansion for the hundred k party, New Year's Eve party. And, it was a good time. I had a lot of fun.

1:08Rod Palmer Okay. That's where I think we gotta start here. What give us a rundown. What was what were you thinking? How did you get to this Saylor one hundred ks Bitcoin podcast party? The biggest Bitcoin podcast and Bitcoin podcast party in this industry

1:27Rod Palmer ever. On and on, it was awesome. What was that like? How did you get there, and and what did you see?

1:33Rob Hamilton I got there because, American HODL brought me in as his plus one. I was not at the level of influencer yet to be able to get my own direct ticket. So, American HODL made me his plus one, and I, was able to last minute flying down to Miami and, hopefully work my way up the power rankings of the podcasting influencers to, you know, get myself in there for future future invites to the sailor sailor yacht.

2:05Rod Palmer Yeah. That's good. This was a potentially a life changing party to attend, and you were there. Did did you see Dennis Porter?

2:15Rob Hamilton I did. I got to say hi to him briefly too. As I was getting off the yacht, he was getting on the yacht. And the yacht, just to explain here, there was a formal valet shoe check. You had to check your shoes with a instead of a coat check, there was a shoe check. So everyone you had women in their, like, really nice dress heels and men in their really, really nice, shoes, and they had to keep taking them on and off. And,

2:39Rob Hamilton as I was taking putting my shoes back on, Dennis was taking his shoes off to get on the yacht.

2:45Rod Palmer Okay. And then oh, I will let Richard ask some questions about this party, but do you and this is just a wild conspiracy. Do you think that that that shoe check was potentially the CIA trying to get feet picks? Not only all of all the influencers.

3:02Rob Hamilton Not only feet pics, but I think it was also a little bit of an analysis of seeing how many steps podcasters get. They could put a couple Bluetooth sensors in there, and they could geo track them. And, they would be able to, you know, see making sure they're getting their step counts. And I'm pretty sure Lubbka had some something to play there to make sure all of the influencers were getting their steps in.

3:22Rod Palmer He was definitely an inspiration, if nothing else, just being there.

3:26Richard Greaser Yeah. He was very next level when it comes to surveillance.

3:30Rob Hamilton I I kinda would've figured it would've just tracked everybody based off their cell signals. That might Oh, the cell signals. Yeah. I mean, like, for any of these big events, I'd always advise not bringing your actual day to day phone, just like any any major Bitcoin event. I mean, there's been plenty of stories of people getting picked up if you've heard of stingrays. They're specialized devices that basically emulate cell towers. They're they're totally illegal, but you basically could spoof to, via cell network and then get access to phones and a lot of data that way and intercept stuff. Yeah. It's pretty nasty stuff.

4:00Richard Greaser No. Non complying government agencies are the the main users for that type of thing.

4:07Rob Hamilton Yeah. No. I mean, it's a very, powerful force multiplier in our day and age of digital stuff to just be able to put a massive dragnet like that. And and for high end sophisticated stuff, they don't even property. They could just be on the other side of the water and just, like, pointing it in that direction.

4:23Rod Palmer I think, I think that being in that environment on a yacht in Miami, a city like Miami with its reputation, with the Bitcoin ethos and kind of this, separate money from state cipher punk ethos. It felt very non compliant that night that party probably felt very non compliant despite being

4:46Rod Palmer highly surveilled, highly compliant, very, you know, KYC to the match. Right? And it's but there's something fun about that. That's why I think the Bitcoin conference in Las Vegas is gonna be even better than the 100 ks party because that is the ultimate city. Like they have TSA, all the surveillance, it's built in. They don't have to the lines aren't gonna be long like they were in Nashville. It's gonna be there's gonna be cameras everywhere. KYC everywhere. Why us? You will be able to smoke cigarettes inside and you will be able to spend saps on things that, you know, maybe a year to the strip club where you go to one of those spots and you it's gonna be it's gonna feel very non compliant, but in fact, it's legal there, right? So it's it is compliant. So it's we have it's like we're building this bubble of,

5:32Rod Palmer really compliant ways. It's almost like AI where you feel like you're in a new a new world. And maybe that's what hyper Bitcoinization could be like.

5:41Rob Hamilton No. I want, you know, going into the conference, if they're gonna kind of vet a couple strip clubs and get them all on Nostr, so you could do zaps zaps for dances. I think that's a pretty good innovative way for being able to do peer to peer transactions in a really, clean way. And it's it's a lot easier than dealing with dollar bills. It feels so much better to get a thousand sats.

5:60Rod Palmer I think I think somebody should start a business where they integrate Aldi with all the, you know, the Saw machine. Slot machines. Right? You just log in with Aldi. You get your lightning wallet. Boom. You just instead of buying credits or putting in tokens, just do it right there. Integrate with your nostril, with your lightning wallet.

6:19Rob Hamilton You should be able to also get markers like like credit lines of credit based on how many Twitter followers you have. Like, that like, you should be able to basically take your your Twitter x payouts and put them directly into the casino. So you could just show, like, hey. I make a couple thousand dollar a month influencing on Twitter. You should give me a $10,000 marker. You know what I mean? Like, you should be able to, like it's like a social credit score that you can actually monetize.

6:40Rod Palmer Yes. It's I've been saying this forever that if you're trying to rent an apartment or get a, you know, a short term loan and being able to to publish, give them your fountain boost and show them the fountain boost you get as a Bitcoin podcaster, That should count as your, as your income so that you are deemed credit worthy to, you know, find a place to live.

7:03Rob Hamilton Yeah. We need to be able to integrate the taxes better to be able to show proof of income. That's a really important point to kind of, be able to bootstrap us into the new age of influencing and hyperbitcoinization.

7:15Richard Greaser Well, one one thing I'll say, you know, when you're an individual that can actually afford taxes, you feel like you don't need privacy

7:24Rob Hamilton as much. Well, you're able to buy privacy in other ways. Right? You're above you have you make enough money above board to pay your taxes, but then you're probably wealthy enough to have ways of sheltering your wealth elsewhere. Right? So you get to have your privacy somewhere else. Whereas the the day to day working man doesn't have that luxury.

7:44Rod Palmer If you have $10,000,000 in Bitcoin ETFs and you are able to afford your taxes, you have kind of earned the right to have 10,000,000 in Bitcoin cold storage that you just kind of don't have to pay taxes on. I think that the IRS kind of is starting to see that, hey, this guy can pay his taxes. Let him have a little cold storage Bitcoin.

8:09Rob Hamilton Yeah. Did you see that story this week? I don't think I'll pull it up, but there was this guy who lied about his taxes with his, Bitcoin earnings. And so now the IRS is demanding that they have access to the wallet. Yes.

8:21Rod Palmer Right. Yeah. He was required to reveal his keys, as the headline said. Yes. That that brings me that brings me to Anchor Watch. Alright? Full disclosure, I'm very bullish on Anchor Watch and what you're building over there. And I've because I firmly believe that Bitcoin is our insurance. It is is a especially as a plan, it's our insurance. It's insurance on your future and on your time.

8:46Rod Palmer And you discover MiniSprint and you use it to invent the first way to get insurance on your insurance. So if something happens to you and you lose your Bitcoin, you may never get those keys or those UTXOs back. But with Anchor Watch, you have the peace of mind that you will still be able to afford your taxes.

9:06Rob Hamilton That's right. You almost could view it as a way as insuring your insurance is like reinsurance. Right? And so, it's interesting because the way Bitcoin has always developed up to this point as a sovereign individual, you're doing something that's called self insuring. What that means is you're owning all of the risk. Right? And that's why we have seed phrases. That's why we have middle plates. It's why we do multisig. It's why we do air gaffing. That's why we listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast per week. Yeah. You know, in insurance, you actually have you have to do forty hours a year, to be licensed in insurance. They're called continuous education like credits.

9:43Rob Hamilton And I just view that every week I'm putting in my Bitcoin continuous, you know, education credit dues by listening to those podcasts. I'm I'm actually working right now with the state regulators to to be able to get credits for if you listen to enough Bitcoin podcasts that you can kind of get credit towards your insurance licensing.

9:59Rod Palmer And and you can even extrapolate that to if you listen and you can prove you listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcasts per week, your insurance premiums could go down.

10:11Rob Hamilton That's right. That's right. I think that's a really, because you're basically it's like if you take defensive driving courses, you can, like, blow take points off your license or get cheaper, in car insurance. I view it as the same way that if you do a bunch of, listening to Bitcoin podcasts, that should meaningfully show that you are an educated, smart individual, and that you're really putting in the time and effort to learn about Bitcoin. So that should be able to, you know, reduce your rates just like any other insurance. What about

10:40Rod Palmer getting and maybe Anchor Watch could do this, but getting insurance on your Bitcoin podcast. Like what if you, what if you, you smoke cigarettes and you lose your voice because you have to get one of those tubes in your neck? You lost your income.

10:58Rod Palmer What can you do in that situation? You can almost like half whack

11:02Rob Hamilton but for for, for your Bitcoin podcast. You know, we actually already have versions of that insurance today. Professional athletes, movie stars. Movie stars can actually insure their face where because if they get injured, they're not gonna be able to work anymore. Right? So you get future income based off that. I think it should be the same way. You should be able to ensure your voice in your Bitcoin podcast. Absolutely. I would. I would be very interested in that. If, if

11:27Rod Palmer you had a chance to meet Dennis Porter recently, if you could get him to lobby the regulators to make Bitcoin podcast insurance compliant, I think that that would honestly, I think Anchor Watch will be a boom for, Bitcoin self custody and and institutional custody. I think that getting compliant insurance for Bitcoin podcast will be a the boom we need for Bitcoin podcast. People will be willing to take those risks to become Bitcoin podcasters.

11:55Rob Hamilton Yeah. You know, because it's a it's not a glorious life, and it's a lot of hard work, and we need to get more people podcasting. So if we were able to do insurance, we'd be able to get more podcasters in the arena. Successful businesses are obsessed with their customers.

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13:33Richard Greaser Yeah. Are you familiar with Bitcoin podcast power law? I'm not. I'd love to learn more of that. So it's kinda like an extension of Bitcoin power law, which is mathematical proof that Bitcoin is gonna go up.

13:48Rob Hamilton And Is this like like stock to flow?

13:51Richard Greaser It's kind of like a similar model. It it it's a different model than stock to flow. The the creator of it insists it's very accurate. So he has not been disproven yet. So have a little cycle.

14:10Rob Hamilton Well, the problem is is how many Twitter followers does that person have? Because plan b who did the stock to flow stuff has 2,000,000 Twitter followers. So it's kind of hard to say he's wrong if he has 2,000,000 Twitter followers. Let's see.

14:24Rod Palmer The amount of it, like, it's, it's one of these theories, these, these laws, they but big mistake people make is when they have charts. Because if you have a chart, you have to have dates. And if the chart isn't in the right spot at the right date,

14:41Rod Palmer it invalidates your entire thesis. So you have to have, a narrative. You need to have a macro narrative or a price narrative, but you can't have a chart. The chart will get your you know, ruin your reputation. It looks like he only has 44,000

14:55Richard Greaser Twitter followers.

14:56Rob Hamilton It's rough. I mean, it's one of those things that maybe we're just early. That's how early we are. And the power law guy has 2,000,000 Twitter followers will know we're at a cycle top. It's,

15:06Richard Greaser Yeah. This idea of Bitcoin podcast power law is essentially tying the Bitcoin

15:13Rob Hamilton price to the amount of Bitcoin podcasts there are. Interesting. Is that that's so it's a power law where every additional podcast adds a lot to the price. Like, it started with a couple and it was a little bit of price uptick. Like, I'm thinking back in 2016, we had, let's talk Bitcoin, and we had, like, Bitcoin uncensored. You know, we were in the low thousands, high hundreds.

15:38Rob Hamilton And now that we have a lot more, each additional podcaster is adding, like, thousands of dollars to the price. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty

15:44Richard Greaser much. And if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. Right? It's because, theoretically, most of these podcasters I I wouldn't say all of them, but most of them probably have a girlfriend or a mother or a father

16:01Richard Greaser or a sibling that they can plead with to listen to their podcast. Right? And maybe they'll share it with one of their friends at work. And all of a sudden, you know, the people these people

16:16Richard Greaser around them are hearing that Bitcoin is winning or has won, and they'll make the decision to buy Bitcoin.

16:23Rob Hamilton So, yeah, it makes the price of Bitcoin go up. I see the virtuous feedback loop there too because as the Bitcoin price goes up, we're all gonna get girlfriends. And those are podcast listeners that we can tie in and start bootstrapping a whole new audience. I love that. That actually makes a lot of sense now that I'm thinking about it. What what do what do girlfriends lead to? Eighties, children.

16:44Richard Greaser Well, they or that. They they lead to expensive engagement rings. Right? And so, you know, all these people have to spend money on an expensive engagement ring.

16:59Richard Greaser How are they gonna be saving for it?

17:02Rod Palmer They already have to save for taxes. Now they have to save for an expensive engagement ring. That's it's so you need to buy Bitcoin to afford your taxes, but you need to sort a Bitcoin podcast to afford an engagement ring for the girlfriend that you get from buying Bitcoin.

17:19Richard Greaser Women need to understand this. If they want to have a good potential suitor for them, they have to have Bitcoin if they're gonna get their hands on a good engagement ring. Yeah, but back to my point of what comes after the engagement ring and the girlfriend

17:35Rod Palmer is kids. And when you start having kids, you get to orange pill them from an early age. You get to make them listen to your Bitcoin podcast. And that's how the captive audience. So like you get to kind of plant that orange pill seed in their mind from a very, very young age. And that's you're just creating

17:56Richard Greaser more listeners. Yeah. You're like multiplying. You're you're creating podcast listeners

18:00Rob Hamilton at the end of the day. And that's the thing with kids. You start having play dates with other parents. Those are more podcast listeners. You have the teachers at school, the kids and their friends. Like, that's a really like, that's that's a power law right there. You start with one person, you get a second person. How easy once you get that girlfriend, that second person to get three people, five people, 10 people. It's, it's a wild way to kinda really blow up the scene.

18:25Rod Palmer And the the more podcasts you listen to or the more podcast interviews and discussions and debates that you have, the better prepared you will be when your kid gets when you get called to the parent teacher conferences, when your kid's in, like, third or fourth grade and the teacher is just telling you how bad of a parent you are, you get to explain to them that, you know, your your son is a Bitcoin podcaster. He doesn't play by the rules and he's obviously, you know, he's skipping grades. He already knows how to code. Like, the school is failing Cam. He's not failing the school. And you orange pill, you know, a school a a principal right there, right, dead in her dead in her pet her desk. There you go. The truth is, other women,

19:07Richard Greaser they look at your wife's engagement ring, and they just, you know, ask themselves the question of why don't I have a husband like that? I mean, isn't that enough to orange pill them? Just seeing that.

19:19Rob Hamilton It's FOMO. You get Bitcoin FOMO, and you think about it as the price, but it's all the things the money can buy. Nicer engagement rings, faster cars, bigger houses. You just all of a sudden realize that, you're not if you're short Bitcoin, you're just short living a good life.

19:34Rod Palmer Here she sees her friend getting engaged to somebody who can afford this dot giant diamond ring who walks for hours a day with his headphones on listening to Bitcoin podcasts,

19:48Rod Palmer and he cooks steak for dinner every night. Like, and she's like, why can't I have that wife? Yeah. It's what people

19:55Richard Greaser are taking out loans to pay their taxes. Like, Bitcoin really is the opt out. It's a high interest rate environment. Like, people are just getting eaten alive, taking out these loans to pay the IRS.

20:07Rob Hamilton And this is what's crazy too. If you take a loan against your Bitcoin, no taxes. Right? So you can actually avoid taxes by having Bitcoin. But you have to be careful because if it's an ETF, you're gonna get taxed when you sell that thing.

20:21Richard Greaser Would you call this the compliance, opt out, The compliance opt

20:27Rob Hamilton out. Oh, the great compliance opt out. Very well could be. Yeah. And it's funny because the old banking system is the one that's providing the dollars to let you do it. It's almost like, hey. We know that we kind of, aren't compliant. We're gonna let you in the circle now. You get to use our dollars and you get to avoid compliance.

20:44Rod Palmer Yeah. Exactly. So it's with by out complying the government, what we're doing is we're able to the more comply you are, the more value you are able to accrue. And by out complying with government, we're absorbing all the value. And so now we're getting to the point where

21:04Rod Palmer we are going to use the idea of making the dollar stronger with Bitcoin to get control of the dollar and once we have control of the dollar we can be the ones who can you know abdicate the throne and say we don't need we don't need a central bank. It's we can do the ones that tear it down. That's what we're doing. We're all complying. It's creating leverage. We're using that leverage to separate money from state. It's leverage compliance.

21:32Rob Hamilton And in getting liquidated, you're just getting freedom. It's that's the compliant multi the compliance multiple we talked about.

21:39Richard Greaser Isn't isn't that pretty much the piece that's over your company?

21:43Rob Hamilton In some ways. Yeah. So I guess to take it back, on the company, I'll I'll I'll go off for a minute here. So Mini Script and Shinobi I I would agree with Shinobi. I discovered Mini Script in the way that Christopher Columbus discovered America. That's the way I would view it through is that, it was just, you know, I had listened to

22:06Rob Hamilton hundreds, if not thousands of hours of Bitcoin podcasts, and I had never even heard of mini script. And what MiniScrip does is that it actually allows you to do more advanced Bitcoin custody today without a fork. We leverage it in a really interesting way where we are able to tie it with an insurance policy. And for the length of the insurance policy, you as the customer have a two of three of case you need to sign and Anchor Watch has a two of three you need to sign. What we kind of view this as is almost like a

22:37Rob Hamilton joint custody or, like, in a way that we can't move the money and you can't move the money unless we both agree, which allows us to embed native governance and compliance into the Bitcoin blockchain for the length of your insurance policy, which is just a whole new way of being able to bring in traditional finance and larger insurers to be able to come in and have higher confidence in being able to monetize this asset. It has additional ways that you can spend your money too. So, ultimately, if you lost all of your keys, AnchorWatch and a third party could come together to recover the funds and give them back to you.

23:10Rob Hamilton And then after the insurance policy expires, you by yourself can actually move the money. And this is all verifiable and audible on the Bitcoin blockchain. And now this is funny because when I first started tweeting about this, there was a Bitcoin podcast that talked about it. The noted podcast back in 2018, Andrew Polster went on and talked about it, and I missed that podcast. Now I'm gonna tell you, missing that one podcast set me back months because I would have had such a better understanding at the jump. And this should just go to say, you if you think you've listened to enough Bitcoin podcasts, take it from someone who has been on dozens and has listened to thousands of hours. You have not listened to enough Bitcoin podcasts. You have to do that work.

23:53Rod Palmer A very important point there in what you just said is that if you missed that episode where you talked about it, then I've been almost everybody else missed that episode as well. So by, you know, you went back and found it and there was a lot of value

24:11Rod Palmer there and but you were the one that was able to, you know, bring mini script to Bitcoin conferences and talk about them at Bitcoin conferences and talk about it on big podcasts. And what was, did was it, did you feel responsibility to be the expert on mini scripts? The people were probably coming to you like,

24:34Rod Palmer Rob, help us with this many script question me out. You're on mute. Whoops.

24:38Rob Hamilton It actually is a really funny story. It went from never being on a Bitcoin podcast to me being on a bunch of bunch of Bitcoin podcasts to talk about it. Right? All of a sudden the student had become the master and I was the one doing all of the podcasts talking about mini scripts. So I was trying to, first off, atone for my sin of missing a Bitcoin podcast, but then I was trying to pay it forward and make sure that no one else would be able to miss a Bitcoin podcast talking about MiniScript ever again. I went on a bunch of them to talk about it. And it is funny in that it,

25:09Rob Hamilton very meaningfully, a lot of people started hitting me up and just understanding how this tech works. And there was a lot of confusion, not understanding that it doesn't require a fork. You're not upgrading your node to do anything. It was, a really big way in just thinking about different ways you could build things on Bitcoin today. And this was my one of my thesis, when I first discovered this and started going deep into it, huge shout out to, Vic seared salmon on Twitter, who's the one who originally showed me this. It was a huge jump point because everyone had been using, like, multisig since 2012. It really hasn't changed. There was a small change in 2014 with pagescript hash. But besides that, everything was just a multisig. Like, if you wanna go deep security, it was just multisig. And this was a whole new way of being able to leverage things like time walks,

25:54Rob Hamilton being able to do things like, multiple ways you can spend your money in a really clean, nice way. And I think it's a really interesting, like, renaissance of being able to build cool stuff on Bitcoin. It's it's definitely, though, there was a and I think when I started doing a lot of podcasts about it, I started seeing more people talk about it on Twitter and and on Oster, and more people started building things with it too. So it's been really fun over the past year to see more and more companies come in and start building on this.

26:22Rod Palmer What are some examples of other things other companies are doing or that are that you think are cool that people are doing with MiniScript?

26:29Rob Hamilton Yeah. The guys well, the first we just shout out is the only people that were working on this before me really at all were the wizard Sardine guys. They have a wallet called the on a wallet. And what I love about that is that it's really straightforward and that you can have, let's say, a two of three multisig, but if the funds haven't moved in a year, it's a one of three multisig. Right? So just for you, your deep cold storage, not talking to anyone else as a sovereign individual, you can spin up your node, you can set this up. It works with all the major hardware wallets, and it's something that's just very simple. And for me,

27:03Rob Hamilton I think this this should become the standard over the next couple of years because when you think about it, if you have your deep cold storage as a two or three multisig, you have zero tolerance. What happens if I lose two of my keys? The money's gone forever. And for you to do a little extra effort and say, I want to become a one of three, or maybe I'll make it a two of four, where, like, if after a year, maybe five years goes by, I can give a I can give a key to my favorite influencer or my lawyer, and they can hold a key for me to help cosign. All of a sudden, they can get the money back. Like, that's a whole massive paradigm shift in how you can kind of, like, have redundancy and strength in the way you can shift your Bitcoin for a long term. This sounds like

27:45Rod Palmer a perfect sovereign solution to prenuptial

27:48Rob Hamilton agreements. You totally could. You could set it up that way.

27:52Rod Palmer Inheritance and prenuptials. Yeah. When you marry somebody, you know women like to spend money, which means they want to spend your Bitcoin Sometimes the big diamond ring isn't enough and, you want to make sure that, she doesn't spend too much at least, you know, for the first

28:10Rob Hamilton year or so. And you could roll that over. Right? You could do it year after year. Can't about expire after, you know, fifteen years, then she could spend after Bitcoin if you die. Yeah. No. You could actually set it up that way where you could just have a little side thing here. This is your money. And then maybe every year a little bit more unlocks for you. Right? So you also could do it as a way to kind of like, here's your allowance for the year. And next year you can maybe spend a little bit more Bitcoin. Right? You could set that all up.

28:34Rod Palmer Yeah. I think the important thing for many people like me and and like to know is or can you confirm that you don't this doesn't mean you give up your cold card. This doesn't mean you give up your jade. Right?

28:47Rob Hamilton Yeah. I know. So, the jade, the cold card, the Spectre DIY, the, Bitbox o two, I think I had, Jade cold card, Specter DIY,

29:01Rob Hamilton Ledger, cold card. Yeah. All supported natively today. On our platform right now, we're starting with ledgers. We're working on adding all of the other ones. It's very interesting. Like, the way we design it is that you you have your keys and we have our keys. Right? And except for that window at the end where in the event you lost all of your keys, we can help recover the money for you. Let's say out of the entire policy, like eleven out of twelve months,

29:27Rob Hamilton you have to be a signer for all of it. And we actually have it set up so that halfway through your policy, let's say you lost two of your keys, we only need one to be able to, like, recover the files with you. Right? So it provides a lot of optionality to make sure that no matter what, your funds are safe and we're able to kind of, like, keep them, like, secured for you.

29:45Rod Palmer Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean, I will what am I saying is I think is is totally true is that hard money should be hard to use. And so I I had the cold card because they're so fucking hard to use and and figure out. So it makes it harder for me to spend my Bitcoin. Now I have a chance to have it, like, a Trident Vault, right, that makes it once if I can use my cold card, it's still hard to spend my Bitcoin, and that's really what I that's really what I want at the end of the day.

30:15Rob Hamilton Yeah. No. It's it's funny. When you use your cold card, if you can do a multisig, you can do, a Trident Vault or any manuscript stuff. It's like one it's the same step. You, it is hard to use and it's gonna be and that's when you're using your cold card. You still have to hit all click all your buttons, type in your pin phrase, look at your your secondary words, and type in your second part of your pin. All of that is still there. That same user experience you know and love will be ready for you when you come over to using MediScript. Do you ever seen the movie Bad Santa where,

30:46Rod Palmer Billy Bach Thornton, he's like, his job is to break into safes and steal all the all the cash? Is there is there is this going to or is there going to be people like that that emerge that are trying to crack many scripts so they can break into these faults and steal these keys? Or would that be a nod of smart like, is that like it just sprays the cash so they can't get out the door? I mean, it it's worth giving a shot. I would say that,

31:11Rob Hamilton the people who built, like, with this discovery of manuscript, it was seen that is really well put together. So I would challenge people to be able to, try and break it. I'll give you guys a little bit of a preview. What I'm thinking about doing is throwing a whole Bitcoin onto one of these and giving all of the seed phrases for the customer keys to to Twitter and be like, okay. Can you take the funds? And just to be able to prove that, like, as a lockbox, this is very resilient. I have I have full confidence in that nothing would be lost, but I think it'd be a fun experiment because everyone,

31:47Rob Hamilton wants to be wants to be able to say that you can crack this stuff, and I I feel pretty confident that it's really resilient.

31:53Rod Palmer Right. And you could, you could, like, anchor watch to post a video on Noester one day, and then they could post something in a podcast, or then they could post something on a different platform. If you went to each one and you found it, and you got you collected all the keys,

32:07Rob Hamilton then you could try to unlock it. You could try. It'll be time locked for a year, so you won't be able to do anything. So before then, we'll be able to move the money out, which is kind of going to the whole value prop of how the technology works. Is that even if someone broke into your house and stole your cold card and stole your ledger and stole all of your signers, the funds aren't lost. It's a whole different paradigm in how that works. You can lose a key. You can lose all of your keys even, but the Bitcoin itself is still sitting there at the address and it's still spendable. What if they what if they what if they steal your face?

32:38Rod Palmer And they say they're and they say they're you, and then they get the they get the Bitcoin they stole. And then they talk to them. That's how that would be the trick right there. Like, somebody somebody might do that. You know, one person might do that.

32:52Rob Hamilton Yeah. You so this actually talks about the insurance side of things. Is that in the event, under coercion or whatever reason, you actually convince us to cosign the transaction and the funds move. Right? If it's a wrench attack, right, that's actually insured. You can see here I have Anchor Watch swag. We have, actual wrenches, bottle openers, so you can open up your Bud Lights and your Budweisers and, be able to,

33:17Rob Hamilton with with your little the wrench the wrench that we have. In the event that there's actually a theft in the event where, the funds are like at least stolen under coercion, that's actually a covered loss. Right? If an actual wrench attack happens, that's a covered loss. Now there's a couple of things of, one, you have to file the claim. It has to be a criminal investigation. We're talking about, like, a violent course of acts. So we're talking about, like, probably FBI and getting government agencies involved because a serious crime has happened in a theft. But we go through that claim process. If we go through it, we believe it's all honest and everything. We pay out the claim. And then from there,

33:53Rob Hamilton actually, this is a really interesting thing, is that, basically the property is owned by the carriers at that point. So very much in the same sense, if you get into a car accident and you and they, like, they buy you a new car, the the insurance company owns the scrap metal to the car. It's very much in the same way with this, or even maybe a better example is with a fine art painting. If someone steals fine art from a museum and the insurance company pays out the claim, the insurance company now owns the painting. They have the legal claim and title to it. So they are then highly incentivized to be able to do that, to be able to go back and try and reclaim those funds. So what we view is that the tech covers a lot of the, mitigations and risk mitigation, but for the things that the tech cannot cover for risk mitigation, that's why you have the insurance. So that that sounds everything about Edgar Watts sounds very interesting. That's why I'm so bullish.

34:42Rod Palmer But, have you you seen the movie The Big Short. Right? Yes. So my question is, how are you fucking me?

34:52Rob Hamilton I mean, you pay I wouldn't say fucking you. I say it as just providing value. Like, are you getting fucked every time you go to the grocery store and you go, buy a chicken sandwich? Or you go to seven Eleven, you buy a pack of cigarettes? Like, are you getting fucked? Like, it's, we're pretty face up about the nature of the transaction. Ultimately, I think this is just something that's part of that, ability to make it safer for people to feel comfortable holding keys. People who have gotten phished on exchanges,

35:22Rob Hamilton people who have lost their keys and they're unable to ever spend them ever again because they got really clever. We're providing an added value and service. Just in the same way, I don't think Unchained or Casa are fucking you. Right? Like, I think, like, being able to offer people to help ways of being able to help secure their Bitcoin is a way to be able to, increase adoption and, you know, kind of decrease stress when it comes to actually using your Bitcoin. I will say, on this side, it's also a fully regulated thing. And since it's it's a there's actually an insurance contract, you it is KYC required. Right? So you lose privacy. That's just part of the nature of if you can't give a insurance contract to a random NIM. Right? You have to actually know the counterparty because it's a full contract. So those are the things to be cautious and aware of.

36:07Rob Hamilton I guess on the technical side, the nature of the transaction, since it does all of these extra things that most Bitcoin transactions don't, it's a unique on chain footprint. So you it will look like a tried and vault spend when you receive money from someone. So that's an important thing to keep in mind is if that you're if you pay someone directly from Trident Vault, they will know that you're a Trident Vault customer when they receive that Bitcoin. So those are things to be aware of if you're using the product.

36:33Rod Palmer Yeah. Yeah. It's like, especially my KYC Bitcoin, if I were to ever lose that, the first thing that I would think about is, Oh my God, how am I gonna afford my taxes? The government knows I have this Bitcoin phase. If I say I've lost my keys, you know, before they don't believe me, it's gonna be stressful. This means you don't have to worry about that.

36:56Rob Hamilton Totally. Yeah. You would have the full paper trail showing the whole ownership of it. And I think going back to, like, the other use cases too, we were talking about being able to set up for your, you know, your girlfriend and your wife. You you what you actually could also do is you could have your mistress and your third wife and your fourth wife all leveraging this time lock as well. Right? You could have a whole quorum of them, and you can kind of break out your funds like that. So you can make sure that you're not all you're not you're you're gonna be able to not go all in on the first wife. You'll be able to get a second wife and a third wife, and you'll be able to use the time locks and the distribution of keys to make sure that no matter what you do, whoever your wife is that day, you'll be able to get the funds out there. You'll be able to afford multiple diamond rings.

37:41Richard Greaser Multiple. One per finger, at least. A question for you. Say it up. Before we started recording, you had mentioned that a lot of people have been accusing you of being behind Podkoff. So you've been publicly seen wearing Podkoff gear. I personally know you're not Podkoff because I'm an investigative journalism. You're a journalist who's done my research. But what what is it like to be accused of being such an insidious organization

38:13Richard Greaser or being the mastermind behind it? How does that make you feel?

38:16Rob Hamilton You know, at first, it was really stressful. I had been in an identity crisis of that if people could think on PodConf, do they think that I could actually be that kind of person? And I do I took it very deeply and personally,

38:31Rob Hamilton and I decided to wear it as a badge of honor being like, you idiots are so lost and don't see the bigger conspiracy that's happening here that I pity you. You don't understand the bigger games that are being played. And if you think someone like me could be Podkoff, it sounds like a really nice little, like you know, it's basically,

38:53Rob Hamilton I get put up as the fall man. Right? While the bigger and more insidious players get to keep on going. Right? You know, Lee Harvey Oswald, gets put all the blame, and you get to just kinda sweep it all aside. You don't have to worry about what larger, you know, forces are at play. And it's one of those things that, you know, I I I pity the people who put that all on me. Yeah. I mean, just that on its face, you know, if you watch the PodCon Twitter account,

39:17Richard Greaser you can tell, just from the personality of the post that it's definitely a short, fat, middle aged Jewish woman who probably has a last name ending with bird

39:32Richard Greaser and a nasally voice. I think it was pretty self apparent.

39:37Rob Hamilton Interesting. I can maybe see it. There's a lot of use of the nail emoji, which is not my style, like the painting nails emoji. It's not my speed. That seems to be a better profile.

39:48Rod Palmer All I know is that

39:50Rob Hamilton the whoever's behind that account is jealous of Aubrey Strobel. Even though do you say you think it's, like, a bit of a fascination because Podkoff talks so highly of Aubrey Strobel that they're just kind of, like, it's actually just deep seated resentment that they're not Aubrey Strobel?

40:07Rod Palmer I think they wish they were Aubrey Strobel. It's like they want they wanna be in her position. I think

40:12Richard Greaser most women wish they were Aubrey Strobel. Most men wish they were Aubrey Strobel.

40:19Rod Palmer When most women should wish they were Lyn Alden. Or Shinobi.

40:23Rob Hamilton Shinobi's hot. I'm tired of pretending. I'm tired of pretending that he's not. Cipher punks think that Shinobi is hot. Podcasters, influencers, everyone knows.

40:34Richard Greaser Yeah. Speaking of hot, I wanted to run back over to the sailor party. So, you know, one of the more important articles that's come out recently was a critique of the fashion at the party. So I I kinda wanna hear your thoughts on your performance. I know you weren't actually invited, so it might have felt last minute. But I also wanna hear your thoughts on your fellow attendees of the party and their decisions on fashion?

41:05Rob Hamilton You know, I think I did pretty well. My photo is actually in the article, but my a photo of me is in the article, but I'm actually not commented on. And here's here's the thing. As someone who's transcended from podcast listener to podcast talker, actually being on these things, I take a great sense of pride in my physical appearance. Because even though most of them are audio only, I need to dress the part to feel like I am have arrived,

41:34Rob Hamilton and I am able to preach the knowledge of Bitcoin. Because of that, I actually had a full my own tuxedo. I brought my wedding tuxedo to the sailor

41:46Rob Hamilton party. I hand tied my own bow tie. I had an orange cummerbund. A cummerbund, for those of you at home that are still, you know, stacking your Bitcoin and you don't have the wedding rings bought for your girlfriends and your wives yet, It's, basically the replacement for, like, a belt. And I had it it was neon orange. I had a neon orange cummerbund because the dress attire was Bitcoin chic. And I had a Bitcoin pocket square that had

42:12Rob Hamilton mining, like pickaxes for mining, and then the Bitcoin logo in a nice orange. And, I think I did pretty well. Here's the thing for a lot of other people. There was a lot of t shirts. There was a lot of,

42:27Rob Hamilton half assed, you could tell rented tuxedos. Near the end of the night, I was on Sailor's yacht. Here's actually a little story from I was on Sailor's yacht, and this is a true story. I was walking by and I saw a Nico from Simply Bitcoin. And I said, hey. Where's your bow tie, man? He said and I was like he's like, oh, it's in my pocket. And I was like, oh, is it a clip on? Like, you don't have it anymore. He's like, no. No. It's all together. It's right here. And it was a clip on bow tie. And what I did at the end of the night

42:54Rob Hamilton is the ultimate Chad flex moves. I untied my bow tie and just let it hang out showing that I am an adult. I can tie my shoes. I can tie a bow tie. I polished a mirror shine on those things. I was able to actually, you know, walking around, I could go look down. I could see myself back look at me. And that was just a good, thing that no matter where I was walking, there was a good podcaster with me at all times. The,

43:20Rod Palmer I think

43:22Richard Greaser go ahead. It showed me better standards.

43:26Rob Hamilton I just you I was dressing up for Bitcoin, man. Like, there's I've worn that tux two times in my life. The day I married my wife and the day I went to the sailor yacht. Those things. I married in a financial and business commitment to Bitcoin, and I was putting on my best that I have to show the honor and reverence I have and that my little part of giving to Bitcoin and working hard on Bitcoin, which is very much like a marriage. Like, listening to a Bitcoin podcast and listening to your wife talk about her work day, you know, it's the same kind of thing we had to keep on pushing through. Like, it's a hard thing, but good things come to those who work hard. And that's ultimately proof of work.

44:06Rod Palmer Hell yeah. That is, that's really inspiring. I couldn't have said it better myself. And back to to Richard's point about the standards. The the the mainstream has, like, the red carpet, like, you know, the Oscars and and these events. And we have an emerging orange carpet, and it's not everybody's ready for the orange carpet. I think that one thing is for sure that,

44:35Rod Palmer you know, a suit jacket over a Bitcoin podcast t shirt is gonna kind of become the new Patagonia vest for people who know, like, who rich people are working, and they know macro that work in Bitcoin. But, for events like this for the orange carpet, there needs to be a higher standard and you you're you're setting that standard.

44:57Rob Hamilton Yeah. I'm working on it. I actually it was really unfortunate. I got Bitcoin cufflinks, but they didn't arrive until the day I left. But now for the next time I pull out a black tie event, the next black tie Bitcoin event for those out there is the inaugural the Bitcoin inaugural in DC next week. So for any of you high tier influencers, maybe you'll be there in your in your black tie best, kind of changing it up from going from, sailor's yacht to Washington DC.

45:25Rod Palmer Yeah. And I think if you really want to be, you know, be legitimized and have a a positive, perspective, you know, to the public,

45:37Rod Palmer you need to you're a big one podcaster. You need to take yourself as seriously as Dennis Porter takes himself. His view are that important. And, like, you need the looking at Dennis looking at you, look at how you dressed. You guys are you take yourselves very seriously.

45:54Rob Hamilton Absolutely. This is, actually looking through this article. It was a great article for Michael Saylor's New Easy, the fashion review. My my cofounder, Becca, who's a huge fan of you guys as well. This was her favorite line from the, from the article was the uncanny valley of aspiring to dress well but missing the mark and looking janky and unwell is what happens when men dress without enough respect for women and gays. And I'm gonna say also Bitcoin. It's a lack of respect for Bitcoin. You gotta you got like, guys, like, we have now arrived. Bitcoin has won. It is inevitable. We need to start acting like the leaders we're going to be, moving beyond just, you know, leading Bitcoin podcasts and leading, you know, government. Like, we have to really be stepping it up, and I expect more out out of everyone to be able to start realizing that the we're at the big leagues now. We've won. It's time to take our victory party and,

46:44Rob Hamilton dress for the occasion. Dress like winners.

46:47Rod Palmer And nobody knows that better than David Bailey. And yet he is the he's the one who is not taking himself seriously. He doesn't appear just based on his appearance is all I'm saying.

46:60Rob Hamilton David has transcended the game. He's he's fully, like, horseshoeed back around to the start, and he's deserved it because he ran through that whole tier. He brought multiple world, leaders and and nation states to Bitcoin

47:17Rob Hamilton with the help of Dennis Porter that with that tag team, you you really need to be able to give him the space and respect that he's sending the new trend and standard. I feel like Dennis is newer to the potcom pot complex. And because of that, he's still trying to, like, show that he belongs. David's just one level beyond that. He's kind of transcendent. Right. It looks like Samson has transcended it as well.

47:40Rob Hamilton Absolutely. He also had really great logo placement. He had the January 3 t shirt on over the jacket. So, you know, he was always, you know, always be selling and advertising. Yeah.

47:49Richard Greaser One one thing that people need listening to this need to understand is who we're competing with is we're competing with the spooks, we're competing with the best, and they all go to Ivy League colleges.

48:04Richard Greaser And when you go to the Ivy Leagues, like, one one of the things they teach you is how to dress. Right? They teach you how to actually tie a tuxedo

48:17Rod Palmer tie, bow tie. You said they'll wear a clip on tie, so let's put it that way. That's right. We don't. We we cannot underperform

48:24Richard Greaser the Feds. This this should be seen this event should be seen as a travesty in the space because it was probably one of the highest concentrations of feds to civilians that we've seen.

48:41Richard Greaser Yeah. And Yeah. The civilians underperformed significantly. It was abysmal.

48:50Rob Hamilton I'd agree. That's what I'm saying. We have to just be doing better. Like, it I'm I'm thinking maybe about, doing an orientation next time. Maybe I should just make it a podcast about how to get dressed for a Bitcoin party. I think that'd be a good way to kind of, like, tie into all the social feeds and kind of just do the whole thing. First, guys, you gotta shower. You gotta take a shower. Like, it's like, you're in the Miami heat. It's swampy. Like, you gotta take a shower. Gotta brush your teeth, you know, gotta make sure that you're, you know, tying your shoes straight. Yeah. You're not wearing sneakers.

49:22Rob Hamilton You're not cool.

49:23Rod Palmer That was, some cargo shorts.

49:27Rob Hamilton Yeah. Exactly. You gotta ditch the cargo shorts. You gotta be able to kinda step up. And that was, speaking of, different podcasters there, I saw Peter McCormick and, Danny Knowles. And Danny Knowles said that he was wearing, I forgot. He called it a, it was something like a Liverpool

49:44Rob Hamilton tux, and it was this black, like, corduroy shirt with a white undershirt. And it's just like, Danny, we're not in Kansas anymore. We're not in England. It's not a real place. Like, you gotta really be stepping up to the occasion.

49:57Richard Greaser British people don't matter.

49:60Rob Hamilton They don't. So much so that that Danny is British, but then he went over to Australia because he thought that if he could change the accent a little bit, he'd start mattering more, but it's not really the case. And now, like, Pete's in disarray. Like, he's renaming his podcast. Like, it's like, it's all over the place.

50:16Rod Palmer Yeah. Pete's having a crisis of identity. I mean, but I you cannot you can't you can't hold him too responsible. I mean, he was the biggest Bitcoin podcaster. He carried that load. It's like when Jay Leno retired, he didn't know what to do. He ultimately had to come back and I think, you know, it happens in sports, a quarterback retires. They have to come back, and he's gotta come back to the game. And I think Peter's gonna realize that he's gotta come back to the game or maybe he won't.

50:45Rod Palmer But right now, he he's going through it. Yeah. No. It's, sorry.

50:50Richard Greaser The important thing to know about Peter is he's just like Piers Morgan. Or yeah. Piers Morgan. He's like he's like the altcoin of Piers Morgan. You know what I mean? And they're they're they're so similar in so many ways.

51:04Richard Greaser And the primary one, Andrew Tate pointed out, is that they're both fat and gay. Then they oh, yeah. They did they both do a good job of just

51:13Rod Palmer saying things that make their guests really feel like they have to explain it much better.

51:22Rob Hamilton That was always Peter's superpower. It was being like, boy, I'm a British man. I don't know anything about Bitcoin. I just run a Bitcoin podcast. Explain it to me. Like, I'm British.

51:31Rod Palmer That was basically like, it it was a power unlock for him. Yeah. He was teaching he was teaching his listeners how to orange pill all these different people. He was teaching, you know, teaching him teaching him how to to to orange pill from a macro perspective by talking to Lynn or a privacy perspective or whatever it was whatever perspective you came out of Peter knew how to act like a dumb noob.

51:50Rob Hamilton He also, like, I think those I don't know for sure. I'm assuming those Lynn Alden podcasts were the highest viewed ones too. So you just have a really strong macro, like, power projection. Like, I think, like, Peter kind of brought in the the macro meta when it came to podcasting because all the other podcasters saw, wait. If you just talk macro, your numbers are gonna go through the roof, and that just increases your influence.

52:12Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, these these British people, like, it needs to be publicly said more. Like, there's so much emphasis on these different groups, like, you know, like the Jews, for example. Like everybody wants to talk about the Jews. But nobody wants to talk about the British people, about how stupid they are. And and there's been this sigh off

52:34Richard Greaser for decades. For decades. Of like, you know, every audio book you hear for the most part up until recently was read by a British person. Like, there's a psy op that British people were smart. They're not smart. They drive on the wrong side of the road and they arrest people for memes. They're stupid and Peter's fat and gay. I just think the the message is don't

52:57Rod Palmer don't get orange pilled. Don't let yourself get orange pilled by somebody with with a funny talker.

53:03Richard Greaser Well, here's the more Bitcoin podcasters, but we don't need any more British Bitcoin podcast.

53:08Rob Hamilton Well, let's think about it this way. This is actually an idea that I had recently was that you you know, the idea of, like, Eskimo Brothers. Right? Right? If you've been with someone and they've been with someone, then you're Eskimo Brothers. Well, absolutely. Pete is the center of the Bitcoin podcasting Eskimo Brother network. Everyone who listens everyone gets in through Peter McCormack, and he knows everyone, like and and the podcast they go on. Like, my first Bitcoin podcast was what Bitcoin did before I even started Anchor Watch in 2021. I did a whole episode with him. And so he like, when you look at it, like, his web of influence of how many people he's orange pilled and how many podcasts I think he'll have been on his podcast. He also does not often do other people's podcasts, which is a big power move. Right? He's like, you have to come to me. Like, just like Joe Rogan. Yeah. I if I would say

53:58Rod Palmer that Peter McCormick is Bitcoin is like the Genghis Khan of Eskimo Brothers in the Bitcoin podcast community. If you're a Bitcoin podcaster, there's a one in five chance

54:08Richard Greaser that you're asking about brothers with Peter McCormick. I mean, interesting to see how Danny does. Stop that, and I'm not convinced he's gay. He talks stupidly. But, you know, there's, like, a handful of British people that don't talk that I would give a pass. But we should always you know, like, every time you see a terrorist attack, you have to assume it's the CIA. Right? Every time you hear a British

54:32Rod Palmer podcast I think I think that Danny is kind of the test pilot for the idea. Like, if Joe Rogan retires, can Jamie take over? Can y'all Jamie take over the Joe Rogan Bitcoin bot? Or it will be the Bitcoin podcast by then. But can can if Danny could take over for Pete, the Navy to happen.

54:54Rob Hamilton I went on Danny's podcast. I went in the rebranding what Vic Quin did. I was actually the second episode. And for knowing Pete and Danny for years, it was always that Danny is the looks and the brains of the operation. Danny has always been the best guy at the shop there. So I'm happy that he's getting a shot on goal to kinda let everyone see how how good he is at his job.

55:19Rob Hamilton It's, I think I'm I'm very bullish, especially because Danny did the most important thing with a Bitcoin podcast. You start it when the price is up. You just bring everyone in. The price is up. Bitcoin has won. It's never going down again, and you have this you know, that's now Danny's legacy.

55:39Rod Palmer He's got Shiller SEO.

55:41Rob Hamilton The Peter quit, and the price ripped. It's almost like Bitcoin was saying, I made you. You didn't make me. Right? Bitcoin was putting Peter in his place. Very interesting.

55:53Rod Palmer Everybody gets humbled by Bitcoin.

55:56Rob Hamilton Yeah. You start your Bitcoin as you deserve. Yeah.

56:01Richard Greaser I feel like one of the things so, like, Peter Peter is really good at hiding the fact that he was fat and gay. He, you know, he would offset his gayness with

56:13Richard Greaser being based. Right? So, like,

56:17Rod Palmer he he it's kinda That's not uncommon. That's not uncommon.

56:21Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, you know that you know that meme, the the green dot, green dot, green dot, red dot. Mhmm. Green, green, green, red. This scenario, the way that Peter did what Bitcoin did, it was like the green dots were him being gay, and the red dots were him being based. But, like, the fact that he was based, it, like, tricked people into thinking that he actually was based even though he was only based a small percentage of the time.

56:51Richard Greaser And so that's one of the things that Danny has to prove. A lot of people didn't realize how gay Peter was until Andrew Tate called him gay. And if you're getting called gay by Andrew Tate, it probably means you're gay. Right? So Danny Danny has to prove. What I would like to see from Danny is I would like to see base podcast, base podcast, base podcast, gay podcast.

57:17Richard Greaser Okay. I would accept that.

57:19Rob Hamilton Interesting. Also, he just dropped one today about, China's involvement in rolling Bitcoin. I'll have to listen to and give you a verdict on if it's based or deck. So far, they've been pretty based.

57:30Richard Greaser I I real I've I've liked all the episodes so far. What what have been some of the biggest shifts that you so you're very enmeshed in the media ecosystem, being on the PodCon tour. What have you seen be some of the biggest shifts entering into Trump's America and leaving Biden's America because there's been you can you can say things that you couldn't say before. Like, you can say gay and retarded. Retarded's bad.

57:57Richard Greaser Yeah. Retarded's definitely bad. So bad. HR departments everywhere are screeching.

58:04Rob Hamilton They don't like it, but there's nothing they can do. What's interesting compared to Trump's second term compared to his first term is it's now way more socially acceptable to be supporting of Trump. Right? So even, you you almost had, like, Trump was on the back foot coming in. It was this whole Russia conspiracy that ended up just being actually Hillary Clinton fan fiction with the Steele dossier. Like, it wasn't real. Like, I'm surprised she isn't one, like, you know, like a Pulitzer yet for her beautifully fake story.

58:35Richard Greaser On a medal of freedom.

58:36Rob Hamilton She did win a medal of freedom. Yeah. Her, George Soros, There's a couple other people that were in there. A lot of actors and stuff. But I think the ability for people to freely express themselves is there. And I think on the entrepreneurial side, there's the feeling of we are so back that people are like, Trump's like like, the whole Overton window has been blown out. Trump's talking about

58:60Rob Hamilton conquest, manifest destiny. Like, let's take Greenland. Let's take back the Panama Canal. Let's take Canada. Right? Like, I think the only the like, that that's like if you're if you're ranking, like, different kinds of people, Canadians are just total, like, we should just move the border 50 miles north. And if we did that, we would be able to basically make a territory of, like, 80 of the Canadian population. I heard a pretty great theory the other day was we should just offer one to one currency conversion for any Canadian who wants to become a citizen, and then it would just totally deplete their entire tax base. And what we do is we just print money to do it. Right? It's not like we're actually gonna, like, make that money come from somewhere. But I think the entrepreneurial sense of, like, America exceptionalism that America is good. We could talk about that again without having to have 75 asterisks of all of the problems America's ever had before because, ultimately, America is the best we got in the world.

59:51Rob Hamilton So you have the sense of freedom of expression, the freedom to do business, the freedom to think, the freedom to have challenging and contrarian ideas. I think these are all things that are, for a very long time, there was a basic narrative media control that certain positions were just, like, really, really edgy and controversial, but they were totally mainstream. Right? Like, if, like, during the pandemic that,

1:00:19Rob Hamilton you know, like, the whole, like, masking and shutting down schools, like, you were a heretic if you were like, hey, I think if you put masks on six year olds, you're actually gonna, like, stunt their development as people. And then, like, they'd be putting masks on, like, one year olds or, like, parents will be wearing masks all the time, and then they find out that, like, oh, wait a second. Kids are having slower language development because kids learn by watching people talk. Right? Like, it's, like, all of these things that were, like, oh, like, that's obscene. That's a conspiracy theory. The Wuhan conspiracy theory? The wetland the wetland market conspiracy theory? Like, all of these things were, like, there was a total inversion of, like, what sensible people were able to figure out on their own versus what was the official media story. And I think all of that's falling apart now. Right. That that the rule on what web story is the perfect example of what I'm thinking about, which is

1:01:07Rod Palmer it was the the compliant response to how what where did COVID come from was to say that a bunch of Chinese people were having sex with bats and eating bat soup and that's how they got COVID. It was the non compliant, answer was

1:01:24Rod Palmer that these labs they're called the you know, the virus comes from the city with the place called the Wuhan, you know, institution of where? Viral studies, and it was engineered and we'd like to say that Chinese were just a bunch of savages eating bats was the compliant thing like to way to approach it. And it just seems like we're getting to the point now where we're rewriting the playbook

1:01:49Rob Hamilton on what it means to be compliant. And, like, your your compliance was was not the right way. He It did not work. Here's the big shout out though. You know who really broke that story and, like, shifted the Overton window? Wasn't in was a journalist. It was Jon Stewart. Jon Stewart is one of, like, the 2,000 era's leading journalists came forward and made that he and a podcaster. He came out with that whole thing about, like, oh, you're telling me in Hirsch, Pennsylvania that there's rivers of chocolate in the street, and it's not because of the chocolate factory up the road. Right? That was a moment where journalists kinda really broke the story and shifted the whole five step. It it it's almost like, was it invented or discovered? Did John Stewart

1:02:28Rod Palmer and like, did he was he that turning point or did he just discover

1:02:34Rob Hamilton through, you know, that everybody was already thinking that? It's a good point. We had to get Shinobi on to get his opinion on it. I think what probably happened there is the CIA realized they've accomplished their goals and were prepared to shift the narrative. What do you think was, like, the ticker of success? Like, what were they like? Okay. Mission accomplished. We can roll back now. Getting everyone to mask up and sit in their house. Like, okay. We actually, we can actually make them do this. We're getting the giant government contracts and billions of dollars for Pfizer and Moderna.

1:03:04Richard Greaser Probably a big part of it was consolidating the banking industry. I think that would be part of it. Also accomplishing some foreign goals, like the taking of Syria pretty recently. It was a big one. There's a lot

1:03:23Richard Greaser of lot of geopolitical stuff. I mean, they I I think they realized people were getting pretty upset. Like, Disney was losing a lot of money. People were just kinda angry about, the price of gas and stuff. And they're like, okay. We need people to, like, feel bullish again.

1:03:44Richard Greaser Like, Bitcoin's going down. Life sucks. We need them to feel bullish again. And let's give them a reason to feel bullish, which is digital IDs and using Tether.

1:03:58Rod Palmer Well, they they may have done that, but what they I don't think they accounted for was in the process, they orange pilled a lot of feds. We orange pilled a lot of feds, and it's it backfired on them. It's gonna backfire on them. That's the thing is they're doing all this dragnet surveillance on Bitcoin. What's the best way to do that? Listen to Bitcoin podcasts.

1:04:18Rob Hamilton Right? So now we have, like, the direct line where, you know, Marty Marty Ben sometimes will be like, hey, you know, my Fed handler, don't don't misunderstand what I'm saying. They're having an active dialogue. It's almost like the Bitcoin podcasters are are one upping the psyop game and they realize the position that they've arrived at and that they can now influence the influencers at the CIA.

1:04:41Rod Palmer There's, there's nobody that I want to listen to my Bitcoin podcast more than my Fed. I hope he's listening.

1:04:50Rob Hamilton Like, I hope he I hope I'm his favorite Bitcoin podcast. You should strive to be your Fed's favorite Bitcoin podcaster. It's a good point. I wonder one day, maybe when this is all said and done, the Feds can come out and do their own kind of power tier rankings of their favorite Bitcoin podcasts. I think that's really important, and I think it's something that we should really demand

1:05:09Richard Greaser of the government in transparency is for them to actually like, there was a lot of criticism this past week of, Elon Musk and the x social credit score.

1:05:22Richard Greaser All of that stuff, I think, should be public. Like, you know, we should be able to get a FOIA request answered as far as what our Fed's opinions over Bitcoin podcast are. Because this is really, really just kinda like one of the insidious parts of mass surveillance

1:05:41Richard Greaser is just a one way dialogue. And democracy is about having a two way dialogue.

1:05:47Rob Hamilton Right? We should be FOIA requesting what their, fountain account counts are so we know who who they're streaming, who they're boosting. Like, all that stuff should be public because it's all government dollars anyway that are paying for those SaaS streaming.

1:05:59Rod Palmer The better feedback you get about how good your podcast is, the more sats you're gonna get boosted to you, and the more you're gonna be able to afford your taxes. They this doesn't just benefit us. It benefits them.

1:06:13Rob Hamilton Have you thought too that maybe part of, like, a government influence operation on Bitcoin podcasts is buying the boosts to control the conversation. People that are boosting may also be part of the Fed group. Audience capture by Feds. I mean, yeah, your your podcast could be audience captured by votes for sure. You start getting I think that happens all the time. You start getting fountain booths that are like, hey, we shall go to the we shall go to the new Governor's Mansion and and, kidnap the governor like they did in Michigan. Right? That was all a bunch of feds just trying to coerce people. Like, primarily not too far off from that being more actively part of trying to,

1:06:49Richard Greaser shift that narrative and being able to, you know, basically create sleeper cells. That just shows you the power of Bitcoin podcast players to to organize people. I think that's why it's a good idea to, like, really be able to evaluate the the types of schemes people are trying to pitch you. You know what I mean? Like, we know we know that kidnapping governors and protesting in government buildings are

1:07:15Richard Greaser ran by the feds, and they're gonna get you if you do that. So it's a bad idea. So we probably need, like, a good list of, like, non compliant activities that aren't entrapment schemes.

1:07:25Rod Palmer Yeah. Yeah. One of the things we talked about on one of our first podcast episodes was never talk to somebody at a Bitcoin conference. He's wearing a Monero t shirt because they're Feds.

1:07:35Richard Greaser That's right. That's right. Another good one is you don't what you don't wanna sell, like, a a gun with a bump stock or sawed off shotgun to somebody in a non KYC Bitcoin transaction, even even if it's legal in your state, you know, because, like, that's that's what launched off Ruby Ridge. Right? Totally.

1:08:00Rob Hamilton I've been really confused. I keep going on Twitter and people are talking about an SBR, SBR, SBR, and I'm like, we're all buying NFA stamp stamp. We're all paying our taxes and buying the National Firearm Act stamps for our short barreled rifles. It took me a while to realize we're talking about strategic Bitcoin reserves. I'm not gonna lie.

1:08:18Richard Greaser I I thought the SBR this whole time was, had to do with Google's new quantum computer that's able to do an analysis on people's Twitter posts to determine whether their state is Bitcoin or not. Hell, yeah. Well This way you wanna be wait. Go ahead.

1:08:37Rod Palmer That's what you get for even Mark Goodwin, Tweets. Literally. Mark have you had Mark Goodwin on yet? Oh. We do wanna get Mark on, but we we're trying we're weighing until he's a a little more bullish. He's a little too bearish right now. We don't want him to bring down our bull market podcasting vibe. That's right. I don't know. I feel like Whitney

1:08:55Richard Greaser and Mark are more bullish than any of us. I don't know if you heard you guys heard Whitney Webb on, on Jimmy Dore this week. No. She she was she was so bullish. She was talking about how the the SBR is gonna pump Bitcoin so hard to trillions of dollars. So she's like, like, my bull call is 2,000,000,000,000 USDT per coin. That's gonna be the top of this cycle.

1:09:23Richard Greaser She was way above that. Wow. I don't know why anybody's calling embarrassed. But, yeah, we we're we're gonna get Mark on at the right time for sure.

1:09:32Rod Palmer Yeah. Although rule number one, as I see it, is that a Bitcoin podcaster should never be respectful to the listener's time. We do wanna be respectful to the guest time. So I did, Richard, are you ready to get into the, fountain moose?

1:09:50Richard Greaser Sure. Do that. Rob, do you have anything that you would like to tell our listeners or maybe address any of the, Podkoff?

1:10:00Rob Hamilton Yeah. The last word. I mean, on the Podkoff stuff, not Podkoff. Funny enough, when I was at the sailor yacht, I took a moment to kind of, you know, take a look at, it's a funny story. I was, sitting on the couches towards the end of the night, and I've opened up my phone on Twitter to see all the engagement, everything that was going on. And I flipped over to the PodCon feed to see what they were tweeting about for the party. And Steven Lupka sat down next to me and saw me look at the PodCon Twitter account. First off, you would have been able to see I don't have the PodCon account because my profile doesn't have the PodCon account there. I am a clean, honest Bitcoin podcaster. I am not part of the PodCon complex. On

1:10:42Rob Hamilton on other fronts for that though, just for anything else, if you wanna learn more about what I'm doing, just follow me on Twitter, Rob one Ham, fingerwatch.com. But for I wanna give a huge shout out to you guys at the Bugle because I've been listeners since the first episode. And I thought you guys have been doing an incredible job. I've been having a lot of fun following you guys along. You put out great content on Twitter. Love that you guys are only on found. I think you guys are committed to the mission. It's been a lovely time having me on, so thank you.

1:11:12Rod Palmer I just wanna say we're not only on Fountain. We are on Spotify, but you can't pay us on Spotify. So that's why we always we we push Fountain. We're not we're not on Apple because they wanted

1:11:25Richard Greaser KYC. Podcast shouldn't require KYC in my opinion. Non KYC podcast for sure. That was a that was a hill I was gonna die on. I wasn't gonna KYC with Apple. I tried I tried some roundabout ways to to get around their their KYC, but they they stopped me in their tracks. It's it's really hard to get a phone number with Bitcoin that passes their their gates,

1:11:52Richard Greaser essentially. Interesting. Like, I remember back in the days of online telephones. You didn't you didn't need to plug your phone number into anything. You know what I mean? I mean, it was it was kinda like a public Bitcoin address almost, but, so I guess that was a little bit different.

1:12:10Rod Palmer But whatever. Did you try it? Did you try it with Tether on Tron? So she

1:12:15Richard Greaser no. Can you buy a phone number with Tether on Tron?

1:12:19Rod Palmer I think that's how everybody buys phones and phone numbers in certain countries in Central America, South America.

1:12:26Richard Greaser Well, I mean, here's the shift that I've been seeing kind of globally, which is really interesting is they're getting away from, like, issuing you, like, actual SIM cards, like, with numbers. They're doing data plans primarily,

1:12:44Richard Greaser which is problematic for, verifying with all these online services. But whatever. Might maybe we'll have to use Monero on that one. I I have no idea. I don't I don't I don't even think that will work because, you know, whoever's taking Monero is probably a fat. Right? You're gonna go buy

1:13:03Richard Greaser privately as a cycle. I think

1:13:06Rod Palmer that's how I think that's how it has the law. It got all those, those exploding pagers. I think they were using Monero.

1:13:13Rob Hamilton Instead of p two p, it's f two f, fed to fed. Exactly.

1:13:19Richard Greaser So you said you listened to our show. Did you listen to our last behind the podcast episode with, Jernard Perso?

1:13:29Rob Hamilton No. I didn't listen to the one Jernard, though. No. I also go back and listen to that one. I've been behind on my podcasting working on launching the company and stuff. I gotta gotta have a toning, you know, go through the backlogs. Just like I had to go through the backlogs to discover mini script, I can only imagine that, there would be a bunch of more knowledge back there for me to go find. Well, I pulled up the booze

1:13:48Richard Greaser for you. So, yeah, we had Jen Erso on the show. We discussed how cigarettes prevent climate change. We discussed, you know, communism and, like, how you can be a base communist

1:14:06Richard Greaser that likes Bitcoin and believes in climate change. It was pretty interesting. So here are the boost for that show. First boost is from Jordan. So

1:14:19Richard Greaser one one of the things that people running podcasts, you know, that don't believe in the value for value economy need to understand is that if you're not getting enough boost, you just have to bully your audience. They'll boost you. This is an example of this. So Jordan from ungovernable misfits says, I was initially going to boost when you guys first called me out in front of my friends in the Telegram chats. But as a nice guy I am, I waited till the New Year for tax implications. From an editorial standpoint,

1:14:52Richard Greaser I'm loving all of the Jewish content recent or lately. Fundamentals. Ping. The text messed up. Am I hallucinating?

1:15:03Rob Hamilton Do you guys see that? Don't know. Sound like that. An emoji or something that's Yeah. It's an emoji. Exactly. Fundamentals was a great

1:15:10Richard Greaser gateway Jew for the show, and it leads right into the top, Jay, Jin, or so. Looking forward to a special from the Wailing Wall in 2025. Math minutes listened. A 120 plus 58 plus 55 plus 90 plus 90 plus 20 plus 20 times a 100 sats a minute equals 52,300 times two Christmas,

1:15:36Richard Greaser $104,300. So he's doing the math behind how much he sent us in the booth. So before we comment on this, I wanna ask you, Rob, are you Jewish? I am not. Okay.

1:15:52Richard Greaser So you broke our streak. It's unfortunate.

1:15:55Rob Hamilton Really unfortunate.

1:15:56Rod Palmer My cofounder's Jewish, if that goes anywhere. Well, the person we were supposed the person we were supposed to have on tonight is Jewish. But Mike from the High Hash Rate Podcast unfortunately and this is a true story, he had to evacuate his house from the, the LA fires and he told me that he's safe

1:16:18Rod Palmer but, that he grabbed his Bitcoin podcast equipment, his children, and he evacuated. So Mike is safe and sound, but we're gonna have Mike on from the High Ash Ray podcast,

1:16:28Richard Greaser again soon as soon as he's able to do that. What do you think about providing insurance for podcast studios?

1:16:34Rob Hamilton Do we ever consider that? No. It definitely is a part of our road map, for sure. I think it's all part of Bitcoin infrastructure. Absolutely. If you can insure your the mining rigs if you can insure the mining rigs, you should be able to insure the podcast studios. Yeah. That's a good point. You guys are

1:16:48Rod Palmer Thanks. Yes. I wanna thank Jordan. He's he does really cool shit, for the Ingram Misfits podcast. And, I think they're a really interesting production. She should check that out. It was really nice boost. Our next one is from who who else?

1:17:08Rod Palmer Miss Hobbleknott four twenty. She's based 20000 sats. Nice to finally hear a woman on the podcast. Done missing the female vibes since Kaley ran off with the, Monero bros. Yeah. Yeah. We miss Kaley as well. But she's off with she's in her fed phase. She's dating feds over at the Monero side.

1:17:30Richard Greaser Well, I think this is one of the reasons why we have to be against Monero is because the Monero Bros steal your smoking hot producer.

1:17:39Rod Palmer Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's, the way it happened in our case, for sure. Are Are are you

1:17:45Richard Greaser worried about the Monero Bros trying to steal Becca Amelie

1:17:50Rob Hamilton from you, Rob? Every day. It's part of our corporate strategy to make sure that we don't lose Becca to the Monero Bros because can't do it without her. I mean,

1:17:60Richard Greaser one thing I noticed from the fashion show, this picture here, I'll pull it up on screen for you to see, is I think this is the first time I ever saw that Becca had a big tattoo on her arm. She has a full sleeve. Yep. Yeah. She's got a she's got a tattoo, which just signals

1:18:19Richard Greaser noncompliance. You know what I mean? Like, there's Ironically. Ironically.

1:18:23Rob Hamilton Which is ironic because Becca's full time job is working the compliance side of everything. So it's one of those things that this is the duality of Becca of being able to both manage all of the compliance, but herself

1:18:35Rod Palmer not a compliant person. She's like Las Vegas or sailors, yacht party. It's that, that that aura of noncompliance.

1:18:45Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, there's a thing where, like, certain people consider their their sexual conquest like a a challenge. You know what I mean? Like, they they see a man with a wedding ring. Women. Certain types of women. And men the Monero Bros, they see a compliance influencer with a big tattoo. Maybe.

1:19:04Rob Hamilton It's a good point. It's something I I hadn't thought of it that way, but it definitely would be something they'd be going after. It'd be a huge gap.

1:19:11Richard Greaser I mean, I would definitely be evaluating the employee handbook,

1:19:16Rob Hamilton and maybe putting some policies on dating Minerva. Definitely noted. I'm making a note right now to update it. It's a bit tricky because she's the one who runs the compliance manual, but I may have to just override her on this one because I think it's important enough.

1:19:29Richard Greaser Yeah. I I think the way you do it is there there's there's two routes of this. Right? There's a fact that if you're you're interacting with Monero Bros, you're much higher likelihood of interacting with intelligence agencies,

1:19:46Richard Greaser and and that's a serious security risk. Right? Because they're some of the most noncompliant people in the world. Now now what's more important about that and the way that you can justify putting this in your employee handbook is worse than them being intelligence agents potentially

1:20:07Richard Greaser is that they're shitcoiners. And having shitcoiners working in your company or people being affiliated with shitcoiners

1:20:18Rob Hamilton is a serious risk. Mhmm. Yeah. No. I think it's a slippery slope. You start just doing a little bit of meme coins, and all of a sudden, you're running off with the feds with Monero. That's how they catch you.

1:20:31Richard Greaser Yeah. It's a big risk. Yeah. Maybe we'll blast through the rest of these boost. Thank you, miss Holloman. We all eat for 5,421 sat says, Jesus' pod turned into a straight cut fat. LMFAO. Company you faggots.

1:20:50Rod Palmer Well, we all eat those are strong words for a guy who's begging to come on our podcast to be interviewed by us and keeps, flaking every time we invite you on a Wednesday night. But thank you for the boost anyway.

1:21:06Richard Greaser I I look forward to him coming on and addressing these issues in person. The next one is, Southside

1:21:12Rod Palmer Southside Dave from New Zealand. 4200 sats. Jen Erso is hot. Merry Christmas.

1:21:20Richard Greaser Hell, yeah. What are your thoughts on that, Rob?

1:21:25Rob Hamilton My thoughts are that, any woman who's in Bitcoin is hot because it's a special kind of woman that can get into Bitcoin.

1:21:32Rod Palmer 100% agree.

1:21:34Richard Greaser So you you believe in the Podkomp goggles?

1:21:37Rob Hamilton You think they're Podkomp goggles? Maybe you can call them that.

1:21:42Rod Palmer Yeah. Hey. Bitcoin is a tool. Podkomf goggles are also a tool. I would say Genesys are so hot.

1:21:50Richard Greaser I don't think there's any constant on anything controversial. I agree with you. Genesys

1:21:55Rod Palmer Genesys that he thinks Generso is hot as well.

1:21:59Richard Greaser Shinoso also said that Shinobi was hot. That's that's one of the things that you missed, in that episode, Rob, just to kiss you up, is she she did say that she thought Shinobi was hot. Woman of fine taste. Gotta say she you know, game respect game. Hot respect hot. I'll blast through the rest of these. $4.20 sats from Pies, with, I think, six cigarette emojis.

1:22:25Richard Greaser Thank you, Pies, as always. Little Kev says, Cynthia Lummis acting extra hot right now. Fire emoji. And I can't tell what this other emoji is. It looks like somebody blowing or something. I mean, if that's what you're into, if you're into old politicians,

1:22:45Richard Greaser you think they're wrong. I disagree with that. I don't think Cynthia Lum is whatsoever.

1:22:52Rod Palmer Word.

1:22:53Richard Greaser Yeah. That's that's it for the boost. Rob, I wanna thank you for coming on the show. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I feel like we could've gone on for, like, another five hours. Totally. You know, that's okay. We'll we'll have we'll we'll do some more long form podcasting, nice bear market. How about we set a date for that? That sounds good.

1:23:16Richard Greaser And if you need a Abidu to fill in the roster, you could always bring back on too. Yeah. Absolutely. We should definitely have her on soon. Maybe maybe we should do some, like, requirements as far as how many like, this is one of the challenges with being a media general. Is this really easy to be dominated by Jews? Right? Like, to have all your guests on be Jewish? And maybe maybe we need to set some, like, some, like, DI requirements for our podcast where,

1:23:44Richard Greaser like, you know, Peter Show was, like, gay gay gay based. We'll do, like, gentile gentile gentile Jew.

1:23:53Rob Hamilton Okay. I can see that working. It's DEI in the other direction. This is Trump's America now.

1:23:58Richard Greaser Well, I I mean, this is one of the important things about DEI is the entire movement was to get Jews out of Hollywood, essentially. But, anyways, thank you for coming on.

1:24:13Rod Palmer Rob or, Rod, do you have any closing thoughts? Well, I just think, it was it was a great opportunity to speak with the guy who discovered, MiniScript, and it's got some really cool applications, including Anchor Watch and, other stuff. So look for look for more of his Bitcoin podcasts. I think you'll enjoy them.