0:00Richard Greaser Welcome back to the Beagle. Welcome back to what's this? Episode three or four of, Behind the Podcast where we're talking to mostly so far, it's been Bitcoin podcasters. So we are joined by a, colleague. She's the first female guest that we've had out and I think the first socialist guest that we've had but not the first Bitcoin podcast, which is what I'm trying to say. So we're talking to,

0:29Richard Greaser to to Margo. You might know her as Jin Erso

0:32Margo on, Twitter. How's it going, Margo? Oh, it's going great. Thank you for having me. I'm really honored to be part of this show.

0:41Richard Greaser What is, you know, how many how many episodes of the Progressive Bitcoin or or the the Progressive Bitcoin podcast have, you've done so far?

0:52Margo So we just released our second episode this week, of me being the host of the show. So we're doing it once a month. So, yeah, you know, it's keeping it chill, playing around with the format.

1:06Richard Greaser It's been fun so far. Were you nervous before your first the first one? I know I was I was shaking in my baits for my first one. I remember that date very clearly.

1:17Margo No. No. I wasn't nervous because I actually, I brought on a friend to on on the first episode, so I actually have known Alan Minsky since I was reporting on occupy on the occupy movement. That's how I met. And, actually, he opened a lot of doors for me

1:36Margo doing this kind of work. So he brought me to the local radio station, and I was a produce like, co producer or exec no. What was that? Oh, yeah. I was the super duper associate producer on a on a political show there, and I also did some reporting for the evening news. So I have a background in this, so I wasn't really nervous. I was a journalist.

2:05Margo Yeah. I mean, in in a previous life, I was a journalist. I I was like, I decided to go to go back to school, to graduate school, because it's really hard to make money as a journalist. So I was like, you know, my options are I'm gonna be, like on local news. And I did I did, like, this journalist broadcast journalist camp thing. And

2:33Margo it was it was really uncomfortable because all the women that were there were dressed in tiny little outfits and everybody behind the cameras were men. And it was just, yeah, it was really an odd dynamic. And that and they were talking about, like, getting agents and stuff. I'm like, I was just, you know, trying to do reporting. This is not for me. I think I'm just gonna stick to being a scientist then.

2:57Margo So yeah. So I I kinda stepped away from that. So, yeah, it's kinda my return, my return to journalism, but it was more of a talking head.

3:06Richard Greaser Yeah. I mean, I know I know that Richard can share his story because he had a similar story where he had to walk away from journalism. But even as a Bitcoin podcaster, doing the bugle, you notice that, some people are just there to go to parties and the Bitcoin conferences, and some people are there to, to be Bitcoin podcasters and to, to study game theory, you know, with their guests.

3:33Richard Greaser And, yeah. So we get it. We get it. Yeah. So, but it's another thing is like a few years ago, it used to be common that, you know, it's tough, like you said, to, to necessarily make it as a journalist, that they'd get laid off and they would be told to learn to code. And now it's I think it's journalists are having to learn to podcast. Would you agree with

3:57Margo that? Yeah. You gotta learn to podcast. You gotta learn to substack. You gotta learn to just, you know, be your own create your own cult of personality. I mean, that's my goal. In fact, I was just, you know, I was just talking about this with my friend, Shinobi.

4:13Margo I was like, Shinobi, I need to create a cult of personality so that I can, you know, get rich off of NFTs. So, yeah, that's my that's my ultimate goal. As a as a as a journalist running the Progressive Bitcoiner, I'm really hoping to get rich off of NFTs.

4:31Margo I'm doing it for Podcap because they disapproved me, and I'm having second thoughts about this disapproval.

4:38Rod Palmer Yeah. Well, I do have to say, Shinobi, according to a lot of women, is pretty hot.

4:48Margo I mean, I have never seen Shinobi's face, obviously, so I couldn't say, because, you know, he's always covered up at conferences.

4:59Richard Greaser Right. But If he doesn't know better, you'd think he was knee seeks.

5:03Margo If I didn't I mean, I for a long time, I thought underneath the mask, you know, like the COVID mask and the sunglasses that he was mee Sikhs. And that time in July at Nashville when he showed up as me six, I You thought he was naked on stage? Yeah. I thought I thought that he was that was, like, his coming out thing.

5:29Margo So So the first time you saw it, Chennobi, you thought he was coming out. Okay. Coming out. Yeah. I thought he was coming out. Like, just like, you know, I'm no longer gonna be so privacy. My name is gonna let everybody know who I am. I'm me Sikhs. So, it was kind of, yeah, it really confused me when I realized he wasn't meeseeks underneath the mask. I'm still working through that. And

5:55Richard Greaser what, what what what kind of cult of personality did you decide that she needed to build or that she wanted to build? You know, that gets the men have a saying that he who makes a meme out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a

6:15Margo man. Like, why was what was yours? Like, what was your, you wanted to make NFTs and be a shit quencher. Is that what you said? Yeah. I mean, I I'm really inspired by this by Donald Donald Trump and the cult of personality around him. I know I am a an anarcho socialist. I'm an anarchist and a socialist. I'm anti capitalist. But on the other hand, I feel like, you know, Bitcoin right now is going through huge transition. And, yeah, I don't know. I just thought, like, if Trump can do it and still have David Bailey support him,

6:47Margo and give him money and, you know, build a whole empire and conference around Trump even though he's, like, showing wouldn't do that if somebody wasn't a true Bitcoiner. Yeah. So I feel like this is the natural progression. So my hope is I can build a cult of personality like Trump in this space and

7:11Margo get David Bailey to, you know, give me all of his money. Hell yeah. All this Bitcoin. Yeah. And maybe I could sell him an NFT, you know?

7:20Rod Palmer I'm, so I'm curious. So one of the things that many people that are more left leaning believe in culturally

7:31Rod Palmer is gender equality. Right? And so I have this concern that men are gonna

7:40Rod Palmer have serious issues selling meme coins and NFTs this cycle, and there's gonna be a massive, gender pay gap there. Even even if

7:55Rod Palmer people think these individuals like Shinobi are hot, I don't think Shinobi is gonna be able to sell very many, NFTs because there's just not enough women in Bitcoin to support the the demand side to keep up with all the men that will buy women's NFTs.

8:15Rod Palmer I I think the only way that that really gets fixed is for these Bitcoin companies to grow so big. That's so there's such a big demand for HR that they have to listen to their employees' podcast to make sure that they're, you know, essentially comply it. And that's the only way Shinobi could compete

8:40Rod Palmer in selling NFTs. But, like, how do we deal with this issue, which is the coming

8:47Margo gender pay gap in regards to meme coins? This is a really, really important question. I'm really glad you asked it because gender equality and closing the pay gap is really important for progressive Bitcoiners. I mean, we just we believe in an equal society. So yeah.

9:07Margo I think there's no easy answer. And one possibility, you you know, is it's just a transition. Become a woman

9:18Margo and and fix the, you know, the the supply. I mean, there's plenty of supply, so fix the demand side. Become a woman. And I think if more Bitcoin men transitioned into being trans women, we could solve this gender pay gap. So I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that trans ideology will go mainstream this cycle in Bitcoin, and we start to see a lot more people come out this way and and,

9:47Margo you know, declare their love for shinobi and buy his NFTs so that he, you know, he doesn't starve. His compliance token. You know, he's gotta buy his own compliance token. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I really don't wanna see him starve just because he's a man. Well Yeah. I this is this is where

10:08Richard Greaser this is why I have to disagree. I agree with you. What you're try what you're saying is what you're trying to do. But what's really happening is the leftist HR ladies are convincing the government to let to let shitcoins just run rampant because

10:29Richard Greaser they know that men will buy a bunch of shit coins. And then when the market crashes and it gets to zero, that loss, those capital losses will offset the salaries that they make that are higher. And it will it'll it'll it'll close the gender pay gap basically that 30% of their net worth that they lose makes up for the salary. But that is that's in the tab. That's it. That is traumatizing.

10:54Richard Greaser That is destroying families. It's hurting men and men are the victims here. And the answer is not, that's why they are turning. They're they're transitioning and they're they're becoming, shit. You know, the only way to make their money back is to become female shitcoin NFT salesman. Yeah. They need to they need to kind of mature and become men and realize that hard money is hard to use. It's not about shitcoining. It's about

11:22Richard Greaser having to spend forty hours listening to Bitcoin podcasts and watching BBC sessions, finding tutorials. Because that takes a long time and they just have they don't they have to do the work. I don't think that, I don't think they should become female Bitcoin podcasters. I think that's the take

11:40Rod Palmer Sorry. I think men are in a really tough place right now, which is that if they have to transition, so if they transition and they're employed, they're going to get a 20% pay reduction. Right.

11:56Rod Palmer And sometimes it takes, you know, a little bit of time to build up a following to be able to sell your meme coin. Do you believe to believe that they should have workplace protections so that they don't take the the pay cut? You know,

12:09Margo part of me says workplace protections like that are really important for these men. They're struggling, and you're getting taking that pay cut, it would be really bad for their mental health. On the other hand, you know, there's always risks and, you know, we should let the market decide. Let the labor market decide. You know? The free market. Yeah. The free market.

12:35Richard Greaser That that sounds, now forgive me, but that sounds very capitalistic, like pro capitalism. You were you you believe that the the market should sort it out. Well, I think the market

12:48Margo giveth and the market market taketh. And, you know, there is there is a form of anti capitalist anarchism called mutualism or market anarchism. And there is a belief that if you have truly free markets,

13:03Margo truly freed competitive markets that are not based that, you know, don't allow for monopolies and antitrust and or whatever, you know, whatever they call that. And, yeah. Like, the market can can actually be a a tool for communism. I I think that's absolutely possible. So, you know, I I I think I think in this day and age, we should on the one hand, there's an argument to let them let the dice

13:31Margo fall and roll where they go where they may and, and see how, you know, how socialist we can make the market. Maybe the market will will fix the fix this gender gap. I don't know. I I'm I'm open. I'm open to all opportunities, all possibilities. Some some that's something that I talk a lot about. So, I'm willing.

13:55Richard Greaser And so you don't think that the strategic Bitcoin reserve is, you know, a way to use the market to achieve out, you know, basically

14:11Richard Greaser fix everything. I mean, you can speed up hyper Bitcoinization. So like if if Donald Trump just apes, smash buys in Bitcoin with the Federal Reserve printer, that speed that accelerates fixing the world. We're fixing the money. We're fixing well, that's why we're strengthening the dollar. We if you you say fix the money, that's what that means, you know. Once you go on the Bitcoin standard, now you fix fiat currency. That's what that's what we're doing. And now we're fixing the world and you do that sounds like something, that sounds like a utopia. It sounds like something leftists, believe in utopias.

14:45Richard Greaser Why don't you agree with that?

14:48Margo Yeah. I mean, you know, fix the money, fix the world. Sounds great. Fix the fiat. I I mean Right.

14:58Margo Like yeah. I think, you know, I I I I always I thought this was about separation of money and state, but it sounds like it's about keeping state and money unified and fixing the dollar so that dollar hegemony can exist forever. Now this is really an opposition, I I would say, to leftist because we really are opposed to US global hegemony.

15:26Margo It's obviously killed a lot of people, a lot of innocent lives, and exploited a lot of people, and especially in the global South. So, yeah, Bitcoin strategic reserve isn't the most appealing

15:40Margo to a leftist, I would say. I think leftists are probably less inclined to support the dollar, but, you know, it seems like right now, that's where Bitcoiners are at. They really, really want the dollar to succeed. So

16:01Margo I don't know. I'm I'm, you know, I'm reassessing reassessing. I can update

16:06Richard Greaser What do you think about Tether? Do leftists approve or, like, are they a fan of Tether

16:14Rod Palmer or that is that just an extension of dollar? Yeah. The people that have been murdered in the global South for The US economy.

16:25Richard Greaser They like Tethr. Yeah. That's the well, how do you explain that? And not not that how do you personally explain that? But I'm just saying that's like an open question. But actually, how do you explain that? Yeah.

16:37Margo Well, I mean, it's true a lot of people in the global Southeast Tether. They they do. I mean, it's a stable stable. Right? The value is stable,

16:50Margo and day to day risks are probably seemingly lower when you're using a stable coin. So I guess that's the that's why it's so appealing. But I don't know that

17:05Margo leftist support tether. I I don't I don't know. I don't think, I don't think they've really given it much thought, actually. I can really say. I could tell you that people listen to the progressive Bitcoin or probably don't like Tether. I think

17:24Margo Tether is sort of like a Trojan horse for the dollar. So not really a fan.

17:34Rod Palmer Yeah. That's understandable. It kinda goes this is a good segue into Trump. So Trump, I'm blanking on his name, but his commerce secretary from Cantor Fitzgerald is a big fan of Tether,

17:52Rod Palmer which means that Trump will probably be a big fan of Tether. So I guess there's two questions.

17:58Richard Greaser Howard Butnik.

17:60Rod Palmer Howard Butnik. Yeah. I guess one of the you know, the the first question is, is so men that are listening to this podcast that are frustrated by the potential losses in earnings that

18:18Rod Palmer they're going to suffer for not being able to sell as many NFTs, that are looking to possibly transition to help fix that issue. Is that safe to do in Trump's America? What, like, what are the biggest changes that as a progressive

18:38Rod Palmer Bitcoin or or concerning to you in this shift into Trump's America into Tether being a big part of the US government and and economic policy?

18:53Margo Yeah. I I guess, you know, my concerns are that men are going to really

19:03Margo become shitcoiners, true shitcoiners under this administration. And is it safe? Is it safe to be a toxic maximalist under these conditions? You know, I think that this is,

19:19Margo you know, this is this is something that we're not really talking about in this space. I'm not hearing the podcast influencers really addressing this. Mhmm. And it's it's concerning. I mean, what you know, can you will you be able to under a Trump administration that supports Tether, will you be able to sun your balls? I'm worried that you won't.

19:44Margo I think that's gonna really damage a lot of men in this space. I mean, just going beyond the gender pay gap when their NFTs lose value. But if they can't sell their balls and they can't eat only steak, I'm just really worried. I'm worried about the the mental health crisis that's gonna develop.

20:05Rod Palmer As trans women, they won't have the right to summon their bolt. That's devastating.

20:12Richard Greaser The the one of the big problems that like what you said, it's not gonna be safe to be a toxic maxi. Donald Trump made us think that he was he was really signing up for the, you know, the people who totally like like the ghost of of Dick Whitman, Stefan Lavere, like people who did not tolerate shitcoinery. And it turns out that, he's not

20:38Richard Greaser as friendly. He doesn't believe the same things we believe. And he, you know, he was talking about Bitcoin maximalist at one of his press conferences, and he called the he called he said that some of the Bitcoin maximalists were very fine people. And the media caught wind of that, and he he walked it back, and he totally threw us under the bus and said that he did not say that Bitcoin maximalists were some very fine people. Do you worry that being a Bitcoin maximalist, being a freedom advocate, you think it, having podcasts which are very Bitcoin maximalist, potentially

21:12Richard Greaser Donald Trump could come after and try to censor our content or discredit Bitcoiners like us who are Maximus.

21:21Margo I think it's a real possibility. You know, if if Bitcoin Maximus podcasters become a threat to this administration, I think we really should take it seriously that he he could come after come after you, come after these podcasters. I mean, I just can't imagine, you know, what VTC Sessions would do.

21:40Margo You know? Like, there he is talking about how to set up a cold card. And one day, like, Trump's like, no. Out and sends his goons, and we never see him again. Or, you know, Marty Bent. God forbid something happens to him or Odell for, you know, talking about,

22:01Margo you know, hash rate risks or, you know, the latest conspiracy about Russia. I mean, I just don't know. I'm I'm really not ready for this future. I'm really concerned for their welfare. And I just feel like we've made a pact with the devil here for number go up.

22:20Rod Palmer I I think we just got all

22:23Richard Greaser I like Bitcoin, buy my shit coin by Trump. I think he pulled the one over on everyone. Do you I mean, in under the Trump administration, if they really go hard in support of Bitcoin mining and, maybe, like, you know, they subsidize it or whatever, but do you think that you you'll be able to, you'll be able to get a really good, like, lobbying

22:49Richard Greaser salary paid in Bitcoin for being able to,

22:53Margo do research that shows that Bitcoin mining is good for climate change? Yeah. I really hope so. I mean, I would I think that if I could get just, like, the the the most well paid lobbying position in Bitcoin mining, that, you know, I could really have

23:12Margo a lot of Bitcoin. And I don't know. You know? I mean, I am a socialist and I and I would definitely distribute some of that wealth, certainly, though. I would I would go through, you know, and do some philanthropy and, you know, distribute some of my Bitcoin from all of my lobbying and shilling. I I would I would absolutely do that, help support these mutual aid groups, you know, and maybe start a nonprofit to help,

23:40Margo Bitcoin podcast men who transition, obviously, to to close the gender gap. But yeah. I I yeah. Sure. I mean, I'm I'm hopeful. I'm really I gotta look out for me sometimes, you know? Like I said, I gotta build this cult of personality and, yeah.

24:00Margo I gotta do that.

24:02Richard Greaser Hell yeah. That's that brings up a good point. One of the things that, you know, we talk about is that you have to buy Bitcoin so you can be able to afford to pay taxes. Taxes are getting expensive and it's inflation. Everything's crazy. You just need Bitcoin or you won't be able to afford your taxes. But you are on the side that wants to make taxes more expensive. So I'm curious is like,

24:27Richard Greaser how do you look at Bitcoin in solving the problem of

24:32Margo re being able to raise taxes more efficiently? I mean, if the price of Bitcoin goes up, there's more to tax. And, you know, let's do it. Let's tax more. And I think it'll be way more efficient because price Bitcoin keeps going up, number go up. So there's just a lot more for us to take and redistribute.

24:53Margo So I'm I'm hopeful.

24:55Richard Greaser So wouldn't I mean, that's that's I think I think so earlier, you said that, watching Trump's ascent back to the presidency kind of inspire you. You're like an anarchist, socialist, and you could still feel inspired by Donald Trump. And I think that that's kind of the magic of Donald Trump. He brings everybody

25:19Richard Greaser together for just maybe not the the same, but different reasons. And here, I think, is where we can come together. It's that you could get behind the strategic Bitcoin reserve, and Donald Trump could pop Bitcoin to the moon, and that would solve the problem of getting people to pay more taxes.

25:40Margo Everybody wins. Yeah. You know, this is, this is an angle. Yeah. Yeah. This is an angle. It could be good for climate change. You know, it's an angle that I really hadn't considered that, you know, nation state adoption of Bitcoin strategic reserve fixing fiat could actually have an inverse effect of

26:02Margo undoing climate change through higher taxation. You know, this is really making me reconsider a lot of my own framework, and views on how the world works. So, yeah, I really you know, I this is a lot for me to think about right now. I I don't wanna commit to anything

26:19Richard Greaser yet. Right. I think that yeah. It's it's it would be I think it would be super ironic. Right? The people, the right wingers who mock they they mock you on Twitter. They say, oh, I think that I can fix the weather by paying taxes. And it's like, actually, because bitcoin fixes this, you can.

26:41Margo Yeah. Actually, Bitcoin does fix this through higher taxes. Yeah. I think it's great. I think this is genius because, you know, the thing that I I used to worry about was that if you keep teaching the government about how Bitcoin works and to accumulate Bitcoin,

27:01Margo that it's going to pique their interest to the point that they're gonna wanna control it and tax it and do all these things that would not be great for self custody and for a lot of the human rights stuff. But but now I'm reconsidering this. Yeah. Now I'm thinking we can really solve a lot of big problems with the Bitcoin strategic reserve, And I think we could really, really fix the weather.

27:28Margo Yeah.

27:29Richard Greaser With Right. With this. Yeah. You you could yeah. You could prevent Bitcoin too. You could prevent the men who are experiencing tragic loss of their net worth, during bear markets by preventing the bear market. You would prevent all these other cryptos from crashing. They would, you know, so they wouldn't have capital losses to write off. They would actually be paying taxes. They could afford

27:54Richard Greaser to pay their taxes. And, you know, you mentioned that there, there will always be some people who self custody, but with, MicroStrategy, BlackRock, Coinbase. I mean,

28:09Richard Greaser we're talking, I mean, the people in the self custody, that's gonna be a rounding error. They can just, they pull out so many, so much, so much Bitcoin profits to tax from the ETF and then just people on custodials That they they won't even matter. It'll be, you know, the the climate, the the environment. Yeah. If I guess to sum it up, if Trump comes in and just uses Bitcoin and pumps it to the moon and we all become,

28:34Richard Greaser you know, billionaires, That is in the tax implication wise, so good for the environment. Like so bullish on solving climate change, like faster, maybe before even the next half. That would be amazing. Yeah, absolutely.

28:50Margo I mean, yeah, I think yeah. Like you're saying, like, Trump inspires. Trump inspires people from all sorts of, or, walks of life. You know, it's a big umbrella.

29:03Margo Everyone's welcome. And, yeah, I think Bitcoin going to the moon, higher taxes can really solve

29:14Margo solve this problem. So Right. Yeah. I think this is great. And, you know, I think it's really gonna help those podcasters that can't sell their NFTs because, you know, once government gets involved, then the government can start manipulating the market too.

29:35Margo Now, hearing me out, this sounds crazy, but government, the Federal Reserve starts artificially pumping the price of podcast

29:45Margo compliant NFTs. Everybody wins. The men in this space win. And I think that's good for the gender, that that gender disparity that we've been talking about. Hell, yeah. I mean,

30:01Richard Greaser I was we talked if anybody who listened to the Bugle Weekly podcast in the past year knows that we harped endlessly on. If we the government is non compliant. The government that we, you know, we've been having for the past few years. And if we just out comply the government, we will defeat them. And that's how we separate money from state. And we've done that. We've out complied. We won. We now have Bitcoiners in like all the cabinet positions.

30:30Richard Greaser Bitcoiners run-in the health department. We got, Tether guys running this, the commerce department. Hal Coogan and and CZ and and Brian from Coinbase are coming to the White House. We're all in the White House now. We

30:46Richard Greaser get to separate money from state and we get to do that by pumping the ever living shit out of Bitcoin. And once everybody can afford to pay their taxes, that's how we separate money from state. If you pay your taxes, the state will leave you alone. They will, you can play video games. You can do whatever you want. You can live on your citadel. As long as you can afford your taxes, we'll stay out of your life. And then boom, that's, state and money are separate now. Yeah. Absolutely. Because you don't have to think about it. Yeah. You don't have to think about it anymore. It just becomes

31:17Margo like everyday life. You know, you turn on the light switch and the lights turn on. I mean, how does that work? You know, how do magnets work? Right? Like you can spend all of your free time listening to bull market Bitcoin podcast because it's always a bull market. It's always going up. Absolutely. And just think of how many new bull market Bitcoin podcasts will come out of this.

31:43Margo I mean, this could be a revolution in Bitcoin podcasting like we've never experienced before. You would just collect

31:53Richard Greaser royalties from your fountain booths, and they would just keep going up in value. He wouldn't yeah. You everybody could retire. Yeah. Absolutely. I I I'm just thinking about all the things that I could do in my free time after this. And if and if everybody was doing nothing but sitting around listening to Bitcoin podcast, there would be way less carbon emissions.

32:12Margo Absolutely. And less wars. So, again, Bitcoin fixes this. Bitcoin fixes fiat by

32:23Margo boosting fiat, which boosts the price of Bitcoin. And we end all wars because Bitcoin podcasts go to the moon. And we reduce our emissions because we just don't ever leave our homes because we have to keep consuming

32:40Margo Bitcoin bull market podcasts. This is a solution to a problem that I have been really thinking about for a really long time. And, you know, I used to think that the solution was Bitcoin was, a vehicle for system change. You know? Like, the Bitcoin exists outside of the existing financial system. And if we move everything, all forms of capital out of this system, this broken financial system and into a new one,

33:08Margo using Bitcoin as that primary tool, we could we could fix a lot of these fundamental issues. But now I'm seeing that, you know, my view on Bitcoin is totally wrong. And that, actually, we can solve this with a combination of government endorsing number go up, higher taxes, and,

33:30Margo yeah, more podcasts, more Bitcoin bull market podcasts. This is genius. Yeah. Thank you, Rod. Thank you for, for really

33:42Rod Palmer opening my eyes. Can I ask you a question? So I, this is just like a fundamental philosophical, like, anarcho socialist or

33:56Rod Palmer whatever the the correct political pronouns, you prefer. So, like, I consider myself like, my political pronouns are cigarette capitalist,

34:09Rod Palmer which I think is very different to your ideology, and I'm kind of unfamiliar with it. So in in you in a second, I wanna hear political pronouns, but, I,

34:27Rod Palmer I wanna understand. So in your philosophical world view, how does ownership work? Can you own an idea or does everybody

34:40Rod Palmer own an idea?

34:41Richard Greaser Are ideas invented or discovered? Yeah, that as well. If it's invented, you could have a patent or a trademark or a copyright or you could own that capital. It's an idea. Or are they discovered? Is it just something that you observed in the universe, saw a pattern, and benefit. It's a tool you benefited from, and you can't own that. Honey yeah. So that's that's that's how I would frame that for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Deep deep question. So, yeah, my preferred political pronouns are

35:13Margo libertarian socialist, I would say. And, you know, I come out of this rich tradition that goes back to the industrial revolution, where, Proudhon was the first to declare himself an anarchist. And,

35:30Margo yeah, you know, property property is something that we view very differently from the capitalist mode, which is in capitalism, you know, property really has to be defended and protected by, you

35:48Margo know, monopoly on violence. And property is truly tied to scarcity. If you have an abundance of

35:57Margo of something, it's harder to turn into property, something that you can turn into a commodity and buy and sell. And with the ideas, ideas are truly fundamentally abundant. And whether they're discovered

36:14Margo or, you know, what was the other discovered or what was the other one? Invented or discovered. Yeah. Whether they were invented or discovered isn't so important. It's really what matters is how many ideas are there out there. From a libertarian socialist perspective, we say, you know, there's a lot of ideas out there, and there's probably as many ideas out there as there are,

36:40Margo grains of sand. So Sure. You know, there's not a lot of value to grains of sand. So I would say, you know, ideas are not private property,

36:53Margo unless you can set up some laws, like patent laws and patent your idea. But in a world where you didn't have patent laws, then I think ideas would just be, you know, out there. You know? I mean, Bitcoin is an idea that nobody really owns. It's open source technology,

37:14Margo free and open source, and it's not anyone the network itself is no one's prop. So what I'm worried about property. Yeah. What I'm worried about is that

37:27Richard Greaser at some point, if people don't believe that, Bitcoin is that you could own Bitcoin, Obviously, you can't own the like, who created Bitcoin? Who controls Bitcoin? Well, if they they start to think maybe even though I listened to forty hours of Bitcoin podcasts

37:49Richard Greaser every single week for years and years. And I sacrificed parties and time with my family and friends because I had a good idea. And I had a good idea to buy Bitcoin. And they decided that my good idea to buy Bitcoin,

38:06Richard Greaser you know, didn't come with all that hard work listening to Bitcoin podcast, and they say that I can't own the the private keys just because I had a good idea of listening to Bitcoin podcast. Then, like, how would you protect

38:21Margo self custody? How would yeah. I think you have to watch a you have to watch a lot of Bitcoin podcasts to really know how to protect your self custody. I think that's the bottom line. You know, just because you had one good idea to buy Bitcoin

38:38Richard Greaser doesn't mean that you're gonna have to pay taxes.

38:44Margo Well, you know, I think if you listen to what Bitcoin did,

38:49Richard Greaser I think you would disagree. That's true. That's true. That is, sometimes we'll say to me, it's almost like a yin and a yang situation because you said libertarian socialist. So that's like, you know,

39:05Richard Greaser it's like Manero influencer. Right? It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it sounds like a contradiction. How do you explain to somebody who's listening to this who says I'm a libertarian, like, she's not a libertarian. What do you because I don't think there's that many socialists on the other side who disagree with that label, or maybe I'm wrong about that. Do you ever, do socialists ever tell you that, you're you're not socialist if you're a libertarian? No. I think that there has always been

39:33Margo this push and pull and this critique of socialism or communism or Marxism from an anarchist perspective. I mean, the really the defining

39:45Margo difference is that one group believed that you had to go through the state and another group was like, actually, you know, you just gotta get rid of the state. That's part of the problem. And so for a libertarian socialist, you know, they they're it's not just end the state. It's also end

40:07Margo the capitalist mode of production. So that's really where that comes from. And, actually, you know, right or, like, American style libertarianism, the Libertarian Party does an in its origins take a lot from left

40:27Margo anarchism, left libertarianism, because it came first, basically. Rothbard pulled a lot from that. So,

40:37Margo you know, it's not really a contradiction. I mean, it's really the original form and it was just about whether the state how should the state disappear? And yeah. Anarchists originally

40:50Margo took to violence to try to get rid of the state. Gotcha. So you would say that,

40:56Richard Greaser like, the American libertarian party is kinda like Bitcoin to hash, and liver your flavor of libertarian anarchist socialism is the, is Bitcoin, you know, core OG.

41:09Margo Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. We are the OGs. You know, we are Bitcoin core and, yeah, libertarian, libertarian party is, you know, you could almost even say it's Bitcoin

41:22Richard Greaser Satoshi vision. I would say. Yeah. But you did it. Yeah. It would go perfect example. Roger Ver. Roger Ver. He's, you know, a libertarian Bitcoin cashier. Doesn't even yeah. He doesn't recognize the the the chain with the most work.

41:38Rod Palmer That's right. That's right. I I would agree with that assessment. The the libertarian party is definitely a shitcoin fork of Bitcoin. It's almost like it's like,

41:52Rod Palmer like Ethereum came around. I would almost consider Ethereum a fork of Bitcoin

41:57Richard Greaser in Oh, yeah. Of course. Of course. I don't know why every crypto is.

42:02Rod Palmer Yeah. Because the shitcoiners wanted a shitcoin on Bitcoin and they got chased off. Right. They formed Ethereum and then, like so yeah. I'm not gonna finish this tangent. Never mind. But maybe the green party is like Ethereum

42:19Richard Greaser and libertarian parties like the green party. The green party is like Cardano. I don't know. Yeah. There's too many. Maybe maybe the parties would be better to associate with crypto if you were in Europe and they had more than two. But the,

42:34Rod Palmer So like the the uni party is like the dollar party, right? Democrats, Republicans, they're the dollar party. Now the real question is who is the Bitcoin party? And I would say it's probably the cypher punks, right? They're not necessarily they're engaging politics. They're politically active, because they're doing things,

42:59Rod Palmer but they're not always specifically engaging in the political sphere. And then there's kind of like anomalies like Dennis Porter, who are

43:11Rod Palmer bipartisan or nonpartisan, however you wanna describe it. He had kinda oscillates between the two. Orange party. What's that?

43:21Margo He's like the orange party.

43:24Rod Palmer Yeah.

43:26Richard Greaser It's like but then you got to think about the orange is the orange party a separate local party, or is it is it better to work within the Republican party like David Bailey? Well, David Bailey

43:38Margo has obviously found one path to do that, I guess. I mean, he found himself at Mar A Lago, and now he got Trump to show up and make some commitments that we've yet to see actually come to fruition.

43:56Margo But I kind of think that the ultimate path is who has the most money to give to these politicians.

44:10Margo So kinda doesn't matter what party, because during this last cycle of elections,

44:19Margo you know, Chris Larson, head of Ripple, gave and, Coinbase, you know, they get, like, 20,000,000 to campaigns and took out quite a few politicians that were deemed pro crypto. And, I would say that that is the winning

44:40Margo the winning calculus here. How much fiat can you throw at these politicians? Yeah.

44:49Rod Palmer Well, it's it is definitely there's also the side of it where you have to purchase influencers. So I I'm not sure, like, how the structure is. So do you purchase the politician, then the politician purchases the influencers for you? Or do you have to do both?

45:09Richard Greaser Or

45:10Margo does it kind of depend? I think you have to do both. I think, of course, though, you know, the politicians and political parties also buy the influencers for their own gains. But I think, yeah, you have to buy, you do have to buy the influencers along the way. And I think that, you know, I, I'm hopeful that that will

45:30Margo provide a steady income for a lot of podcasters in this space too. So I think I think when we look at the big picture that whatever is good for Chris Larson is good

45:48Richard Greaser for Steven Lavera. So you think that there's probably gonna be a lot of a lot of money poured into the Bitcoin podcast game in the next couple years, a lot of opportunities to be a engagement, you know, attention grabbing Bitcoin influencer, Bitcoin podcaster,

46:09Richard Greaser who is going to help set important narratives like whether or not covenants should be allowed to pass or whether they change, you know, they change the logo or if they wanna change the Bitcoin logo or if they wanna what if I mean, Trump loves putting his branding on everything. Mhmm. What if Trump tries to change the Bitcoin logo and put, you know, some sort of Trump flip? What if they try to add, like, that little, like, flare that Trump's hair, they make they put that on top of the Bitcoin beat, like Trump's bangs?

46:38Richard Greaser You know? Mhmm. Or Or what if he just tries to make it not orangingly? It's that's a real, you know, there's a sounds awesome to make money, but it comes with risks. Yeah. What what if he

46:49Margo changes Bitcoin Park to Trump Park? That could happen. That could happen. I think every every Bitcoin park has a price. And, you know, it's just, you know, how high does Bitcoin have to go

47:04Margo before you change the name of your Bitcoin building to Trump Park or, you know, PubKey to Trump Key.

47:15Margo Right? I think I think that there is a number go up with their names on it and and and Trump Trump Tower.

47:27Margo Yeah. Trump. You know, we may, you you know, we may see by the end of this four year cycle that Satoshis are no longer sats or Satoshis. Right? Mhmm. They they may be Trump

47:41Richard Greaser Trump trumpets. I don't know. Yeah. So that's a good point. So Donald Trump's not gonna be Donald Trump's going to take credit for Bitcoin going to the moon, but he's not gonna be the only person. But there's gonna be a lot of people taking credit for the God candle, for the biggest bull market

48:02Richard Greaser in history. And, you know, some people are gonna deserve that credit, like Dennis Porter. Dennis Porter is gonna be claiming a lot of clit for the guy candle, but he'll let me just say that he doesn't deserve it. Who do you think? What, you know, who would you put on the Mount Rushmore if you had to think about, like, who's gonna be the people who deserve credit for Bitcoin

48:25Margo having already won? I'm really betting on Corey Klipstein. K. I'm really, really betting on him in this race. I mean, you know, Dennis has really proved himself to Absolutely. No doubt about it. Capable of of taking credit for things.

48:41Richard Greaser But let's not let's not underestimate Corey. You don't think sailing? What about Sailor? Would you be on there too? You know, I

48:48Margo I I think Sailor doesn't I feel like he has achieved a certain amount, in terms of taking credit for Bitcoin success.

49:02Margo But I don't know. I I feel that he's lacking something and, like, the the level of narcissism just isn't it just isn't there. You know? And I I think Michael Saylor is a narcissist. No. I think he is. I just don't think that it's you know, if on the scale, if we could rank,

49:23Margo he's just Sure. He's a third. He's he comes in third place.

49:27Richard Greaser Oh, you can't. Okay.

49:28Rod Palmer Yeah. And I I figured I figured progressive Bitcoiners would like Michael Sailor as a homosexual

49:34Margo man. I think he has a lot of appeal as a homosexual man. Yes. And he is not married. He doesn't have any children. So I think as far as I know. So I think there's hope. I think there's hope. I think he can redeem himself if he comes out and supports the woke ideology.

49:52Richard Greaser Right. I I yeah. Some people have said that Michael Saylor is heavy in the bags, but

49:58Margo light, you know, lighten the feet. Yeah. I've seen him. I've seen him soft shoe at parties, at Bitcoin conference parties. And he's always surrounded by men, young young boys. Barely 18.

50:13Richard Greaser Young men would like young men just want to learn about their role dynamics, I think. I think, you know, but,

50:22Margo they're really taken care of by

50:24Richard Greaser that. I can't like I said, we talked to fundamentals a few weeks ago. You can't blame somebody for noticing. I mean, he's just there.

50:31Margo I'm Yeah. Sometimes you just notice things. Yeah. You just you just notice. You know, you're just standing off the side having a conversation. You just glance over. There's there's Michael Saylor. Doing flight on his feet,

50:43Richard Greaser surrounded by a young boy, young person. Yeah. With longer from, from the the the Tech Coin podcast, from CryptoCo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I

50:54Margo it is what it is. You say what you want. And as as

50:59Richard Greaser as Spetsky ever you ever seen Spetsky next to Michael Sailor? Seems like I don't know. Sailor and Spetsky. It seems like Sailor might like Spetsky based on what you're saying. The thing is is that it's hard to find Svetsky at these events because he's so tiny.

51:14Margo Yes. He's so tiny. I mean, I was in an elevator with him once in Portugal, in Madera, actually, And I almost stepped on him. It was I was really ashamed because

51:27Margo I really care about respecting other people, not, you know, getting in their space. But he was so small that I I almost smashed him. And I just I was horrified because I thought, you know, what would that do

51:44Margo to Bitcoin podcasts if I had killed Spotsky by stepping on him in the elevator? Just, like, smashing him like a little bug. I mean,

51:53Richard Greaser where would I you about this? Did he say, hey. Watch where you're going. It's comedy.

51:59Margo Yeah. I mean, I apologized profusely. He squeaked a few, you know, little curse words here and there at me. And it was you know, I took it because I I did wrong, and I almost smashed him with my foot with, like, a toe.

52:15Margo So, yeah, but I was just, you know, I was just thinking about the horrors that would be, you know, if you would not if you didn't have this little Napoleon pushing, you know, these, like, really anti women narratives in the space, like, I would be out of a job. And I just couldn't baton that. Yeah. So yeah. You'd be I But, yeah, I mean, I expect He's good for Bitcoin. You know? Yeah. Even Spetz, he's good. And and yeah. But to your question, I mean, as I said, it's hard to spot him, but it wouldn't surprise me if he and Sailor were best friends. Yeah. At at these parties. Yeah. I I think Sailor would would like him. Yeah.

52:51Rod Palmer So I'm I'm not entirely familiar with Alex Fetzky's anti, female. So is is he against

53:01Rod Palmer men transitioning to sell NFTs?

53:07Richard Greaser Oh, yeah. Was 100%.

53:11Margo Yeah. Yeah. He definitely thinks that women that, like like, one of the worst things that men ever did was give women the right to vote. So, I I I think that if, yeah, if men transitioned to be women to sell their NFTs,

53:29Margo that, you know, he might start talking about, like,

53:33Richard Greaser like, both sizes or something. This is why we need laws to protect men from taking salary cuts or from being able to vote just because they transition.

53:48Rod Palmer I mean, that's a pretty radical policy to want to restrict, trans women for voting.

53:56Richard Greaser Would you support a petition or would you be, you know, maybe support the other direction if somebody like, Smetsky

54:08Richard Greaser wanted to propose a law that, you know, women didn't have to pay taxes, would you be offended by that or would you fight for your right? I mean, I think in my mind, a progressive female Bitcoiner would absolutely fight for a right to pay taxes. Is that how you feel? Yeah. Look. I think, you know,

54:28Margo gay rights in the military was a really important thing. I think everyone has the right to put themselves out in the battlefield and be murdered or to go out in the battlefield, whether you're gay, straight, trans, or or woke, to be able to take the lives of

54:47Margo Die for die for Ukraine. Yeah. Yeah. And to die for Ukraine. So I completely think that this is totally in line, and, yeah, it would be wrong to take away a woman's right to pay taxes. I just couldn't support that. Yeah. I believe in gender equality in in all all areas. Yeah. I mean,

55:07Rod Palmer I I I think the, the the, more friendly policies towards homosexuals in the military was probably

55:17Rod Palmer primarily out of necessity. So, the CIA, for example, like, really, really needed acceptance of homosexuality

55:32Rod Palmer because so many of them were homosexual. For whatever reason, I I don't I'm just noticing. I'm not making a judgment here, but very many intelligence agents are homosexual

55:45Rod Palmer for some reason. It might might be because the good candidate is because they don't have kids. Right? That might be, like, if we're looking at Occam's razor, you know, people going and dealing with doing clandestine activities. Like, you you don't want those types of people to have kids anyways. So they're they're good recruiting. You know, if you need to go spread democracy

56:10Rod Palmer in Syria, for example, and to work with Isis, like you don't want those types of individuals to have children.

56:20Richard Greaser Yeah. Well, I think it's also, and this is why, there's so many feds on Bitcoin Twitter and spaces and group chats on Bitcoin podcasts

56:35Richard Greaser is because these, these CIA agents, be it them, you know, many of these gay CIA agents, they're really good at OPSEC. They know how to keep their, their main account, their their their dockside, you know, their personal identity and their,

56:55Richard Greaser you know, their fed personality. They're fed NIM on Twitter. They keep those separate. And there's this because they've learned to have good OPSEC and live double lives, they're they're able to maneuver undetected and then collect intelligence.

57:13Richard Greaser They collect intelligence on the other side. It's like, you know, it's like the the show with Mel Gibson. He can hear what the women think. He's like, he's like a he's like an agent. Yeah. And I think this brings us back

57:23Margo to Sailor because a lot of people think he is a CIA spook. So I think this would answer a lot of questions about Sailor's role and, you know, whether

57:36Richard Greaser Sailor does a good OPSEC. Yeah. We, we don't know much about his personal life.

57:41Margo Yeah. So I, you know, I think, yeah, that adds some fuel to the fire there. And I look, I look forward to the day that Sailor transitions

57:54Margo as well because I think that that would be really good for Bitcoin.

58:02Richard Greaser Yeah. Me too. Like, the last thing I wanna say about Saylor just is I I was I saw some pictures on Bitcoin Twitter, and, I think I made a good model posted that either Kacen was in, Michael Saylor's, like, one of his ballrooms at his property. And so that Eric Kayson was high on us. And I think that, I read on Stacker News that, Michael Saylor likes Eric Kayson's rants, his Bitcoin rants so much that it's like, it's almost like you hire a band or a comedian. He hires Eric Kasen

58:34Richard Greaser to do private rants, at his mansion. I just think that's so awesome. It's like to have such good Bitcoin rants that he gets to do private shows for Michael Saylor. Yeah. I,

58:46Margo I I'm envious because obviously I'm trying to build a cult of personality. So I would need

58:53Richard Greaser private to do like the rants, Bitcoin rants or whatever? Yeah. Would you not I don't know. Would you would you rather do it for would you do a favorite influencer that you would like your cult personality to be friends with on Twitter?

59:08Margo Maybe Safa Dean.

59:09Richard Greaser Oh, that'd be a good one. Yeah. That'd be good. One of the topics I kinda wanted

59:15Rod Palmer to wrap up with so one of the big so there's two pieces of breaking news. During this recording, Bitcoin dipped below a 100 k and then went back above a 100 k. So yellow doesn't have to start doing,

59:33Rod Palmer don't stop believing spaces again.

59:36Richard Greaser Good. He deserves to retire.

59:40Rod Palmer Yeah. So the this this breaking story so Stacy Herbert just, retweeted, the the headline or the the post that the beagle did, discussing that Max Kaiser and Steve Stacy Herbert have been evicted from El Salvador. So, on the topic

1:00:03Rod Palmer of political demagogues and cults of personalities, is this kind of a fall for grace for Naive Bukele? And what do you see the outcome for the general Bitcoin ecosystem being with this news? Are you on mute? I think you're on mute. You're back. No. You're not back. Sorry. I

1:00:28Margo suddenly I was watching, What We Do in the Shadows, and it just started playing randomly. So Oh. It was like I could hear it in the background to stop it. Sorry about that. But yes. So yeah. You know, this is really big news. I'm still digesting

1:00:47Margo what this means for Bitcoin that Max Keiser has been deported from El Salvador. The the deal with the IMF sounds

1:01:01Margo very good for Fiat, very good for Tether. And, I don't know. I don't know. This, I mean, it could you know, they say everything is good for Bitcoin. So

1:01:15Margo maybe maybe this is good. Maybe this is somehow still good.

1:01:19Richard Greaser I mean, I, you know, I read that, you know, that that Bitcoin was being used by the plebs in El Salvador, but even though Bukele put a lot of people in prison,

1:01:35Richard Greaser the, Tether on Tron gang just basically, the Tether gang just kind of recaptured and, you know, kind of had a negotiation with Bukele. Now it's, he's gone, but he's gone to Tether. Yeah. I guess he thinks he could put more people in jail with

1:01:51Margo with Tether on Tron than with Bitcoin on Lightning. Right. Right. So, you know, it's a it's a it's a gamble, but could work could work for him. No. Yeah.

1:02:04Richard Greaser If, Al Salvador if if Ukulele is profiting from, you know, a very compliant country, There's gonna be, they're gonna have to have profits from prison. And if people are orange pilled and they're using Bitcoin instead of Tether, they're gonna be listening to Bitcoin podcasts and there's just not gonna be enough. There's peep society's gonna be too good. It's gonna be too peaceful and too low crime for them to support the prison industrial complex. It's just Bitcoin fixes. People wouldn't go back to prison. They wouldn't offend. But Tether shitcoiners,

1:02:38Margo they'll probably go back to crime. Yeah. I, you know, I think everybody needs an enemy. Bukele realizes this. And if he allowed Bitcoin adoption to really flourish and allowed Max and Stacy to stay in the country as

1:02:56Margo head of Bitcoin propaganda, that this really would be a threat to his model because who would be the enemy at this point? So I think making Max Kaiser enemy the enemy and adopting Tether is a really smart political move for him. And,

1:03:16Margo you know, pushes Bitcoin in back into The US and brings it full circle with Trump.

1:03:24Richard Greaser Right. Yeah. I do not concede. I can see the argument. You know, if I lived in El Salvador, I would think that because of Max's Stacy that, Bitcoin was the Gringo's money. And I would be more likely to, wanna use the money of the global South, my fellow citizens of the global South, which is Tether. Yeah. You know, I mean, Tether

1:03:47Margo really pushes, a woke representation. They believe in diversity, and they're all for clean energy. You know, they believe in climate change. So,

1:03:59Margo apparently, they've got some really interesting initiatives like that that are very, you know, that liberals love. So I think it's just really well aligned with with this. And,

1:04:13Margo yeah, I think the gringo money just just doesn't I think. Just doesn't align.

1:04:19Richard Greaser It's, it's a sad irony that due to Max's Stacy's tireless efforts to keep shit coins out of El Salvador, the people didn't learn that it's actually Tether that's the Gringo money. It's not Bitcoin. And they got it backward. They associated Bitcoin with Max and Stacy, and it just kind of soiled its reputation, I guess.

1:04:46Margo Yeah. I I would I think that, you know, we need more diversity in our propaganda leaders. We're really lacking. Absolutely. You know, we need we need,

1:05:02Margo a disabled, black, trans woman, spelled with a y, to lead the propaganda department and to promote

1:05:16Margo number go up at all costs in order for this to work. And we just don't have that. We don't have that. And I don't know what it's gonna take for people like David Bailey, Odell, and, you know, everybody else in this space, you know, in the media space, the influencer space to to really realize that it's time. It's time for them to step aside and embrace diversity

1:05:43Margo in our propaganda.

1:05:45Richard Greaser Absolutely.

1:05:46Margo And I, for one, support seeing Dennis Porter becoming Denise Porter. And if it takes him getting, getting in the suntan booth or, you know, doing some insane

1:06:02Margo plastic surgery to add a little bit more melanin to his skin, I would support this. I

1:06:11Rod Palmer personally, the highest profile transition that I'm looking forward to is Matt Odell becoming a woman. Because as a woman, I think he'd be pretty hot or she would be pretty hot.

1:06:26Margo Well, he's got beautiful hair, so he's he's he's already pretty close Yep. To being an amazingly attractive woman.

1:06:35Rod Palmer I think one last question I I have for you, is is I wanna know what your thoughts on Kim Jong Un are because one, I think he would identify as a socialist. Two, he, as a world leader, has been into Bitcoin

1:06:55Rod Palmer longer than anybody else. He was like the OG Bitcoin president putting best Korea on a Bitcoin standard first, well long before El Salvador. But I wanna understand your thoughts on why

1:07:13Rod Palmer people like David Bailey and, the Podkoff ecosystem in general has rejected, fearless leader Un in favor for some of these other politicians like Bukele

1:07:27Margo who are now stabbing us in the back. Yeah. I think there's an irony there because if we recall when Trump first came into office in 2016 that he actually reached out to, to to this to Kim Jong un, to the supreme leader of, the Korean People's Republic. And,

1:07:47Margo I think there's a missed opportunity there, truly a missed opportunity. And I I think there's a missed opportunity for Bitcoiners to learn, to really learn from Kim Jong Un and to learn from how they run their society on a Bitcoin standard.

1:08:06Margo Mhmm. Yeah. I I think it's a missed opportunity. I, you know, I can't really get into the head of David Bailey, nor do I want to. But if I could, I would maybe rewire

1:08:19Margo a few things, including you know, I would make it so that he had gender dysphoria so he would become a woman because I think that would help. You know, I think that would help him understand.

1:08:32Richard Greaser I think David would make a great woman, honestly.

1:08:35Rod Palmer You know? Yeah.

1:08:37Margo Yeah. I think so. He he has the

1:08:40Richard Greaser he has the emotional excitability of a woman. He gets a very, very bullish very, very, very bullish and, just kind of, you know, hysterical on the timeline sometimes. I think he'd make, you know, I think he'd be great. It would, it would help him and it would help Bitcoin magazine sell NFTs. Oh, yeah. He got to shave his beard. Mhmm. Yeah. I don't think Bitcoiners are ready for that.

1:09:04Margo Well, you know, his mother helps run Cali, she helps run the Women in Bitcoin brunch every year at the at the BTC main BTC conference. So he's not, you know I think he would be openly embraced in the community, in the Women in Bitcoins

1:09:21Margo community. And, well, you know, if he did it Not by planet Earth. Not but no. No. But I think Natalie Burnell would.

1:09:30Richard Greaser Oh, yeah. Yeah. I I she would probably double cross Corey and reach out to David.

1:09:37Rod Palmer Why why do you think, like, I I know there's certain organizations like the the Human Rights Foundation, for example, that are very, very

1:09:52Rod Palmer attached to promoting the US Department of Defense's foreign policy, essentially. Are they the ones that are,

1:10:08Rod Palmer you know, actively working against North Korea getting proper recognition from the Bitcoin community? Or or who who is the they behind this? And and what do you think their

1:10:25Rod Palmer goals are here? Because it seems to me like they're slowing Bitcoin adoption. Well, you know, the Human Rights Foundation really supports

1:10:33Margo medium of exchange Bitcoin and really supports anti authoritarians who fight against despotic regimes.

1:10:45Margo And I think that that is in conflict. It's in conflict with the goals of podcasters in the space.

1:10:59Margo And, the, you know, pod comp just that's just, you know, that that really violates the the goals of PodComp, I think. You know, number go up at all costs. And so, yeah, I do think that the Human Rights Foundation is really one of the core impediments

1:11:18Margo to reaching out to Kim Jong un and to really bringing the, you know, nation states into the fold on this Bitcoin strategic reserve, Bitcoin standard. We don't talk about it enough. You know? It's kind of like the elephant in the room. Mhmm. Absolutely.

1:11:36Richard Greaser Before we go to the lightning biz, I wanna give you an opportunity real quick to talk about your podcast and what, what you're gonna be talking about, what you're gonna be exploring with the podcast, and then most importantly, how are you,

1:11:56Richard Greaser how are you going to resist the influences and pressures of PodConf now that you are on their radar? Yeah. So

1:12:07Margo the Progressive Bitcoiner is a podcast. I think it's been around since then of 2021, and our goal is to highlight voices in the space and that are adjacent to Bitcoin,

1:12:21Margo that appeal to a different audience, that comes from more out of a left leaning perspective to really tie in, you know, the human rights narratives and the social good of Bitcoin. So that's that's what we do.

1:12:40Margo And, you know, we just wanna just wanna, like, lighten up the space a little bit because I find that a lot of podcasts are, like, too serious. They take themselves too seriously, and I'm trying to add a little humor to this and just, you know, make Bitcoin fun. So that's what we're we're doing, and we release an episode every month. And, yeah, how am I you know, I got on I got Podcom disapproved this summer.

1:13:12Margo And so it ins you know, inspired me to create, an organization called the Ass Queen, which we haven't really touched on. And,

1:13:24Margo you know, I I really all I did was give them a platform. And I said, look, let's just put a name to this. And I really don't I'm not really involved with them. I just kinda I advise, but they're a ragtag bunch of queer, very queer, non

1:13:42Margo binary bitquaters who are DEI terrorists, and their mission is to undermine number grow up as much as possible using e cash. So that's what Yas Queen is about. So

1:13:58Margo I think that if I can support them in any way possible, then I am doing something good to really counter Podkom. So that's that's how I try to, you know, I try to keep myself in in a position where

1:14:16Margo I keep PodComp at bay because I've got this DEI terrorist organization backing me up, and they are not afraid to throw glitter bombs on people as necessary, you know, to sabotage

1:14:31Margo the number go up. So I I feel confident that they have my back when I need them, and I'm just really grateful that they exist.

1:14:43Richard Greaser Yeah. If, if you go back to our website, we'll put it in the show notes if you wanna read more about Gas Queen. And it's just, if you're wondering why you should be interested in the world of quantum computing and quantum threats and the quantum entanglement, it's gonna be important to have non binary thinkers because,

1:15:03Richard Greaser compute computation, it's not gonna be binary anymore. So you have to be able to, understand that, that vibe, I guess. Let's go into the base. You wanna start off the base, Richard? So

1:15:21Rod Palmer do you know any about our last episode, what we did?

1:15:26Richard Greaser No. Yeah. We should probably give her context before we read that.

1:15:30Rod Palmer Yeah. So the last episode was titled Satoshi is Jewish. And, we had fundamentals from the what, the rock paper Bitcoin podcast on,

1:15:45Rod Palmer and, he is a Jew that happens to notice things. And so we had an interesting discussion.

1:15:58Richard Greaser I don't know if that's enough context. We she could always ask more questions if she's Yeah.

1:16:03Margo Like, what the hell is that? I have no idea what this means, but I guess I'll just play along.

1:16:08Rod Palmer Alright. So our first boost for a 100 thousand sats, big boost, is from Rakin who says, from the synagogue of Satan to the synagogue of Segway and from Jesus of Nazareth to Satoshi Nakamoto,

1:16:28Rod Palmer nobody can deny that our world continue to be passed from one Jew to another, which makes me want to start training for a visit to the Wailing Wall. I hear you have to have a strong pelvis muscle to do humping moves in

1:16:47Rod Palmer in an appropriate manner. A 100 humps till fiat dumps. That's one of the more interesting boosts.

1:16:58Margo I mean, I I'm also Jewish, so I would say that working the pelvic muscles

1:17:09Margo really important for davening or prayer at the Wailing Wall. And I think that's, you know, not any way you can do this. It does help to,

1:17:23Margo you know, have part of your penis cut off. It does give you a certain magical advantage

1:17:29Richard Greaser that I can't deny is true. And It looks better. Right? It just looks better. That's attractiveness

1:17:36Margo is an advantage. It is. It is. God likes it. God, you know, is in the section.

1:17:43Richard Greaser Yes.

1:17:44Margo Oh. So yeah. I would I would say do those kegels. And if you if you need to see a pelvic therapist, go for it. Circumcision.

1:17:55Rod Palmer Yeah. I mean, it's better than yeah. Okay. What what are your thoughts on this idea that Satoshi could have been Jewish? Well, you know, Satoshi is

1:18:04Margo larger than life in the same way that Jesus was larger than life and Jesus was a Jew. So I think it's just a, you know, it's just a logical progression that one would think that Satoshi is Jewish.

1:18:19Richard Greaser Right. Right. I I we were, yeah, we were thinking, kind of along the same lines. It's just, you know, who doesn't appreciate prices going down, who doesn't, like to see number go up, you know, they had to control the money. Why would they control the the rest of the money? The the artist money. Right? It's like it's it's just, you know, but, fundamentals, yeah. It was his, his theory.

1:18:44Richard Greaser And people people really thought it was interesting, I guess. So I don't know, because that's I guess we'll get to that in a bit. The next one is from Shadrach. Shadrack is, one of our most loyal OG intellectual Silk Road members, heart, and a cigarette emoji. He pays 23,232

1:19:04Margo sets. Plus his soul.

1:19:06Rod Palmer Thank you, Shadrach. Shadrach, is kinda cool. So, one of his buddies, he introduced to my music, and he was learning how to play it on guitar. Posted a pretty cool video on Noster. Oh, yeah. It's, well, let

1:19:24Richard Greaser me we'll find this. We'll just play it in snitch. Put the flink in the show notes because it is a good video. Yeah. I missed that. I I gotta see that.

1:19:33Rod Palmer I mean, it it only took me about fifteen minutes to actually be able to watch the video because, primal wouldn't connect to the relays. It was pretty, arduous. And I'm not I don't think it's my typewriter that's the issue. I think primal is experienced some disruptions.

1:19:52Rod Palmer But this is what you have to the price you have to pay as an innovator. You know what I mean? Like, you have to you have to yeah. Well, thank you for the boost, Shatter. Next boost is from fundamentals for 21,000 sats who says, congrats on making podcast history good luck following this episode.

1:20:16Richard Greaser I think we followed it up for you. I think he's I don't think he's gonna be disappointed in the way we followed that. Mhmm. Yeah. I think he's gonna be disappointed we had another Jew on the on the on the show to follow him up. And didn't mention him for so long? Mhmm.

1:20:31Margo Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry.

1:20:35Rod Palmer Yeah. That that's one thing about fundamentals is he will always let you know he's Jewish very quickly. And did apologize.

1:20:43Richard Greaser The next one is from Jason. Thank you for the shout out to our humble 100 celebration. Fundamentals helps run a great knee up and is the best guest on your show. Keep up the great work. Seeing the Bitcoin scene needs Rod and Dick. Thank you, Jason.

1:20:60Margo That's very nice. I agree. I think I just don't know where we'd be without the bugle.

1:21:06Richard Greaser I don't either.

1:21:08Rod Palmer I wish we had a time machine to be able to go into the future and read the boost of this episode with you. That'd be pretty interesting. I think those would be

1:21:19Margo not as

1:21:20Rod Palmer kind. So there there's this issue, which is in order to get a time machine, humanity has to smoke an enormous amount of cigarettes and increase our cigarette consumption exponentially.

1:21:37Rod Palmer But one of the reasons why I think a lot of people on the left don't like cigarettes. Not all of them dislike cigarette. There there's some base people on the left. Is they're afraid of the carbon emissions

1:21:54Rod Palmer from humanity smoking

1:21:57Margo in mass. It's just a theory I have. Curious if you have any thoughts. I mean, there are a lot of there are a lot of cigarettes and you do have to light them, and you are burning you are burning organic material in the process. So, you know, you are putting c o two into the atmosphere to a certain degree. Right? So It should be clean tobacco. I yeah. I I do think that the solution is clean tobacco. And, and I think that the narratives around it have traditionally been been about health in avoiding cancer. But I think, you know, the emissions

1:22:37Margo story is much bigger than we're led to believe. And I I do believe that we need, people on the left to understand that if they just use a filter,

1:22:54Margo this could solve a lot of problems.

1:22:56Rod Palmer Well, I think one of the problems that, you know, I I'm really frustrated with the conversation about smoking because I feel so many people are being, intellectually dishonest. So, there there's many people that, that promote vaping as like the, the green version

1:23:17Rod Palmer of smoking. You know what I mean? It's kind of like the electric vehicle versus, combustion engine debate that's going on right now. The real issue here is not necessarily the emissions

1:23:33Rod Palmer because to charge the vape, you create the same amount of CO2 of it being essentially charged by a coal plant. And it could be argued that

1:23:46Rod Palmer cigarettes are cleaner than coal plants, right? The real issue here at the end of the day though, is the waste. And the one thing that's beneficial about cigarettes compared to vapes is that cigarettes are biodegradable.

1:24:03Richard Greaser They don't require rare earth minerals and slaves to mine them. Exactly.

1:24:09Margo Yeah. You know,

1:24:12Richard Greaser this is It's a lot to think about.

1:24:14Margo I think yeah. I think I think, Greta Greta Thunberg, I think, needs to hear this because we may be going at this the wrong way. This this thing that this idea, this belief, this false sense of security that we could solve the issue of cigarettes by replacing them with technology, you know, advanced

1:24:39Margo technology, semiconductors, is probably a myth.

1:24:44Richard Greaser Yeah. Plus tariffs are gonna make them more expensive anyway.

1:24:47Margo Right. They're all they're all built in Maine and China, so you might as well. Just you know, I mean, like, the movement towards, eating more organic food, buying food locally, not using plastic. I think there is an argument that can be made that we should just go back to smoking regular cigarettes. Yeah. For the save the save the environment, smoke a Marlboro red. I could see this at the next five protest. That's a news save a horse riding cowboy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:25:20Rod Palmer I like this line of thinking. I mean, smoking cigarettes only leads to a net benefit to humanity. So I think we settled that. So humanity has the right to you because, like, all the all the carbon emissions from more people smoking cigarette would promote the Bitcoin price, which would make mining more profitable, which means that Bitcoin mining would fight

1:25:46Rod Palmer climate change more and therefore offset the carbon emissions from cigarette smoking. Is kind of a incredible feedback loop.

1:25:56Margo Yeah. Absolutely. You know, we're all about closing the loop on this stuff, you know, creating these closed systems, and Bitcoin fixes this again. So, yeah. Congratulations, Bitcoin. You've solved another problem.

1:26:10Margo It's all in a day's work. I got your boost, Jason.

1:26:14Rod Palmer I'm sad. I'll I'll I'll just blast through these real quick. So we got Pies for a thousand sats. So Pies is our number one listener. Always consistent. Message says, yo, beer emoji, mushroom emoji,

1:26:31Rod Palmer flexing emoji, fist emoji. Well, thank you, Pies. User and then a bunch of numbers. Let me see if I can see their Noester pro profile. Daddio on Noester says, just for mentioning Michelle Weakley,

1:26:47Rod Palmer fire emoji, fire emoji. You got any thoughts on Michelle Weakley? I try not to.

1:26:54Margo Try not to have thoughts about her. It's for the yeah. She's interesting.

1:27:01Rod Palmer Mo most of us, you know, that that believe in Ofsec, we try to avoid the Michelle weeklies, if you know what I mean.

1:27:10Margo It's very wise.

1:27:14Rod Palmer Boost from Abyl for 500 says this is one of the best podcasts of the year, theocrat Bitcoin, theocratic, or otherwise. Never even the Iron Dome can stop Bitcoin, but, likewise, not even the most repressive censorship can stop quality journalism. I I agree. No way no way can the Iron Dome stop

1:27:40Rod Palmer Bitcoin.

1:27:43Margo And Definitely not. Definitely. Has not stopped Bitcoin at all. Little Kev for 420

1:27:48Rod Palmer SaaS says huge breaking, Dennis Porter. Hell, yeah. Dennis is always, breaking the Internet. And then a 100 sats from Pies again says, rock, paper, Bitcoin in the vehicle, LFG, motherfuckers,

1:28:04Rod Palmer forty hours of Bitcoin podcast forty hours a week of Bitcoin podcast. Yeah. I guess, the final question before we, wrap up this interview is

1:28:17Rod Palmer that I have is, there's only one progressive Bitcoin podcast. I don't think there's very many left leaning Bitcoin podcasts. How could people on the left listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcasts a week despite the deficiency in supply of podcasts?

1:28:35Margo Well, there's two things. One, we could have more people create progressive podcasts. And then the other option is really just to hit the repeat button and just keep listening to them over and over again until you've memorized all the words to every episode of the Progressive Bitcoiner. And, I personally I think that's

1:28:60Margo probably the best thing. I would love to see people, you know, just listen to me on repeat over and over again because I think, as I said, it would help me build my cult of personality. So,

1:29:15Margo ideally, that's what I want, but I think it would alter the alternative would be, yeah, let's get more people creating progressive content and get

1:29:29Margo the more people who are doing that, the better, I think, you know, reaching out to other progressives, talking about Bitcoin. I think that's that's probably the best thing. I I always advocate for more content, just more content. Yeah. We we we wanna hit we do wanna hit forty hours

1:29:49Margo of podcasts, so we just need more people. And and I have to say, Trey Walsh is is working on that because, actually so Trey is turning the Progressive Bitcoiner into a nonprofit organization, so he wants to really start building out a lot of content around the Progressive Bitcoiner beyond the show. So I'm hopeful that, you know, we'll be able to eventually join the ranks of forty hours a week of Progressive Bitcoin podcast, Bitcoin content.

1:30:19Rod Palmer Very cool. Well, I am confident the bull market will bring that. Well, thank you for, coming on the show. Really enjoyed this interview. And, yeah, I'm excited to see what you do with your, podcast going forward as well as, your academic research and, pursuit of,

1:30:40Rod Palmer credentials.

1:30:42Margo Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm really excited to see all of the male podcasters transitioning in the coming years. So

1:30:54Margo that's something I'm I'm really grateful for. So thank you. Thank you.