0:02Richard Greaser The world of Bitcoin news has collapsed into a hyper clickbait carnival. Open mouth thumbnails. TikTok macro with Ghibli Field m two charts. It takes so bad you think they came from Mike Alfred or Gary Cardone. Meanwhile, voices of signal are being buried under a Rizzo Slop engineered to deliver the idiocracy prophecy right on schedule. The pioneers

0:29Richard Greaser are sitting on the sidelines watching the plebs slurp down nothing burger announcements and watering their plants with Gatorade. Feeling isolated, exhausted, invisible, calloused from worn down demoralizing

0:44Richard Greaser UX, even the proudest pioneers are finding themselves second guessing the game theory. Group chats consumed by pioneer sanity checks are becoming reluctant aggregators of screeds from uninspired grifters. After fearing the worst, fearing that this might be a civil spoofing attack, the intellectual Silk Road has begun preparing. Our guest today is the antithesis to the TikTok macro Tether friendly pepslop.

1:12Richard Greaser For years, he has delivered some of the highest signal Bitcoin content you can actually find on his podcast, Bitcoin Amp. His name is none of your business. He doesn't rely CIA spam.

1:26Richard Greaser He's a pioneer's pioneer. His podcast covers Bitcoin, Noster, agriculture, and doing the real work of building lasting value anchored by the sense of self respect that even Tylenol Max and broccoli haircuts can't generate with AI. Bitcoin and doesn't make you feel gaslit, patronized, or grumpy. It makes you hold your chest out, lift your head higher, and move with, dare I say,

1:53Richard Greaser a flicker of purpose. He doesn't go to the studio to influence, but to inform. And just having dropped his one thousand one hundred and seventy fifth episode, joining us today is the one and only David Bennett. David, how are you doing tonight? Well, I'm just fine, Richard. So you just hit your one thousandth one hundred and seventy fifth

2:18Richard Greaser episode. You've been running for coming up on eight years straight. You're one of the longest running Bitcoin podcasters right now, I think.

2:29David Bennett Yeah. Yeah. I I I do believe that that's true. I've been doing this for since 2018, somewhere in the neighborhood of October, October, somewhere around there. And, yeah, 1,175

2:48David Bennett episodes as of today. That's that's a lot of me jawboning into a microphone. I'll say that.

2:58Richard Greaser Well, I really appreciate all your hard work over these years as a long time podcast listener of yours. Bitcoin wouldn't be the place where it is today if it wasn't for podcasters like you. There's been a lot of grief in the podcasters, but you truly are the the pioneer's podcaster

3:21Richard Greaser in a lot of ways. You're a pioneer's pioneer.

3:25David Bennett Well, I appreciate that too. The the the the whole reason that I started the podcast in the first place was I there's too much news that was going by,

3:40David Bennett there was way too many changes coming on in the space, and the space included it's I mean, everything about Bitcoin is everything that

3:53David Bennett I sort of was when I was in college, and what I mean by that is interdisciplinarian. If you're if you don't have an interdisciplinary mindset, this space will drive

4:07David Bennett you through the roof. It it'll it'll it just there's too much stuff. There's there's computer stuff.

4:16David Bennett There's cypherpunk stuff, there's, macroeconomics, there's economics, there's it's like there's history, there's

4:34David Bennett the the thoughts of like, the the people that talk about, like, one of my pet peeves is new home new home builds. They all suck. And when you when you're just looking at that as without any other knowledge, other than the fact that

4:53David Bennett some some houses that you see, you know, they're built well, you can just feel it in your bones. Other houses you see, you know, they're built like shit and one good puff from a fucking big, big, bad wolf is gonna blow it right over. And, but if that's all you're looking at, then you don't know why. And it comes back down to that the money got broke. So when you're looking at Bitcoin, you're looking at coding, and you're looking at

5:22David Bennett economics, and you're looking at all this stuff. And all of these sectors have news that goes with it. And nobody I could not find any podcast that would just sit down and read me the daily news. So I had to become the person

5:40David Bennett that I didn't want to actually be. I had to sit down, go through the news. I I'll like, I'll wake up in the morning. First thing I do get coffee, sit my happy ass down and start looking at what's bullshit And what's not bullshit, and then compile a list and then

5:58David Bennett cold read them on the podcast pretty much an hour or two hours later after I've set up the show. I've gotten good at cold reads. That's for certain, but I, you know, I'm always going to be struggling with all this stuff that I still don't know. Like,

6:20David Bennett the math behind the boat, you know, the long tail of bond yields, and then trying to suss out what the hell Michael Saylor doing with perpetual debt instrumentation.

6:34David Bennett I would have never even been able to string those words together in a sentence fifteen years ago. And and now it's like all of us are, like, way ahead of our time in what we thought we would know about economics, computer code, how,

6:52David Bennett asymmetric the hell am I trying to what is this? SHA two fifty six, that that entire realm of math. Do what?

7:06Rod Palmer Asymmetric algebra, like asymmetric compliant or, cryptography?

7:11David Bennett Yes. Thank you. Cryptography. I mean, it's like, you get into this thing, and all of a sudden, you see all these worlds that are just flashing by you. And it's hard to keep up. And that's what I wanted. I wanted to keep up, but I didn't wanna sit down and actually go through all the news and figure out what was crap and what what wasn't, but that didn't exist. I had to do it. So I got to do the exact thing that I didn't ever really wanna do.

7:40David Bennett And I've been doing it since 2018.

7:43Rod Palmer You became a journalist. Kind of. You, me, you you were the result of podcast journalism. And when you back when you needed it, when you were looking for it, because you talked about it because so, I think this is kind of analogous to, martial arts because for most of human history and really until the early 90s it was you had the kung fu fighters and you had the judo in this part of the world and you had the jiu jitsu practitioners and you had karate and you had kung fu and you had wrestling in Iowa.

8:19Rod Palmer And everybody they fought each other, they they trained with each other, they but you know their community was very tight it was isolated. And that was like similar to Bitcoin podcasters. You had people who were talking about privacy or they were talking about the Cypherpunk's history, or they were talking about the c plus plus and the GameFitter and the protocol changes, or they were talking about, you know, macroeconomics price predictions. But these, like, there was not enough

8:47Rod Palmer the network wasn't big enough, so these macro podcasters were not crossing paths with the optech podcasters. The entropy was there was too much entropy. There was there was no, synergy. And they they started to come and the network got bigger and bigger and now it's like all this big giant, industry where you could have a philosopher talking to,

9:10Rod Palmer you know, a hacker, on the on the same podcast two different times in the week you have, you know, all this happening. How did you get signal outside of your narrow

9:23Rod Palmer focus of your podcast to to kind of build upon what you were talking about and and gain legitimacy? I

9:33David Bennett at in the early days, I was glued to Bitcoin Twitter like everybody else was and where many people still are. Because as as these stories you know, as the stories that that I find in

9:51David Bennett that I'm bringing to the podcast, there are a whole host of people that are talking about those same stories that add layers of context. And as I go through the stories that I'm reading, I'm also picking up context from the people that are also looking at some of these at at not these particular stories, but

10:16David Bennett the content, like, you know, like when, Michael Saylor announced, you know, perpetual the the perpetual debt instrumentation stuff, you're picking up signals from, you know, ten, fifteen, 25 different people that you've come to respect.

10:37David Bennett And you're synthesizing all that information along with what you think about it, along with what's being written about it. And that's sort of that's sort of the way that I structure the show. And I it's not like I'm it will be the case that every once in a while, I'll reach out. I'll go grab a tweet, and I'll read the tweet directly because it's, like, really impactful to a story that I'm reading. But I don't actually do that all that often. It's just sort of this

11:04David Bennett amorphous mass that just kind of appears as I'm setting up the show. And I'll sometimes I'll start setting up the show the night before if something's, like, really heavy is about to drop, and then I'll start looking at what people are saying about it. Then I'll start looking at the news stories about it and then pick out, you know, a new story that's that's not gonna waste anybody's time. Or at least I I try. There there are times I'll pick up a story that's just crap and it happens. I mean,

11:33David Bennett I do it five times a week. They're not all gonna be good. So, but that's the signal that I'm, I'm collecting up comes from a lot of different places and I've, I've,

11:47David Bennett I've gotten, I don't know, kinda good at being a synthesizer for that to kinda boil away all the water so that you're just left with this nice delicious

12:01Richard Greaser beef stock. Right? Being able to use multiple sources and synthesize information and and and have the intuition to be able to decipher the the signal from the noise, I think, is a very important skill set to have. It's continuously going more growing more and more important. So I wanna get your take. So this week was a big week for announcements.

12:30Richard Greaser It's a very big week for announcements. Donald Trump, issued an executive order naming, September 23 announcement day in honor of Dennis Porter. America politics

12:46Richard Greaser will never be the the same ever again. What what are your thoughts on what's transpired this week?

12:55David Bennett Complete and utter bullshit. And that a stupe defying failure of respect for one's own reputation in a space. If I had to boil it down, that'd be it. Dennis. Yeah. Dennis Porter is,

13:13Rod Palmer he has a very resilient, reputation. He you know, for some people, this was their first announcement, but this this was not my first announce Dennis Porter announcement. I had followed Dennis Porter closely, Ayo, and we have been covering him and really spotlighting

13:32Rod Palmer Dennis at the Bugle since late two thousand twenty three. And I encourage anybody to go back and and look for all the content, and you'll see what I'm talking about. But all I will say about Dennis is we have not listened to him announce his last announcement. He will be back and he will be announcing more things than ever. But I am curious to go back to your journey as a podcaster.

13:59Rod Palmer Maybe if, you know, if if we came in later than you did, maybe around COVID, maybe we're just we don't remember because we weren't Orangeville back then, but there just seemed like there was way fewer announcements a few years ago. And especially before it's like, what was it like podcasting and going through like going down the rabbit hole back before there were so many announcements. I mean, nowadays you getting weird. We're getting multiple announcements a week. Back then it could have been months between announcements.

14:28David Bennett But there wasn't months between announcements because we had a gentleman by the name of Justin Sun. And I don't know if you're familiar with the man that is the legend that is the Justin of the Sun, but that son of a bitch is the master of the announcement of the announcement

14:47David Bennett of the announcement. He had that shit down pat. And what really sucks about having Dennis Porter take his place is that Justin Sun was much more fun about it. He was much more tongue in cheek about it. He had a a way of making an announcement where you knew, he knew it was bullshit.

15:12David Bennett And we loved him for it. Even though he's a shit coiner. Dennis Porter, not so much. Because when Justin Sun was doing it, it was more of an, it was an innocent time back then. It was, we were all virgins in the announcement space, and people weren't getting paid oodles of cash to have

15:33David Bennett shit tons of followers on Twitter. Justin Sun had shit tons of followers on Twitter, still does, and he's probably getting paid now. But back in the day, no. No. No. No. No. No. He he wasn't getting paid shit. He if he was getting paid shit, it was definitely not by Twitter. He was he was chilling as crap and he was getting millions of dollars for it. I mean, he's, he's doing okay.

15:56David Bennett But at the time, he wasn't doing it the way that we see Bitcoin, Twitter personalities that are now doing it. And

16:08David Bennett it's, it's kind of grotesque to watch it play out in real time. It's sort of like watching somebody gut a deer when you really have a problem watching blood, you know, it's just Yeah. Ugly. It's nasty. It's not gonna stop. But,

16:26David Bennett hats off to Justin Sun for being the progenitor of that which is the Bitcoin announcement.

16:34Rod Palmer Yo. I think maybe one of the differences between Justin and Dennis is, like, it's one thing to sell out, you know, and and and do announcements for shit coins and do announcements for, like, these big crypto conglomerates. You know, it's, you know, it pays well. It's just like, I wouldn't have taken out. It's another thing to,

16:58Rod Palmer to give your announcements to politicians and like government people and like stable coin legislation. And so it's, you know, people, one of the things that we all hope is that the announcement is bullish. No matter what it is, we hope the announcement is bullish because we love bullish announcements. But when when it's not bullish and and it's, you know, it's wasted on a politician or wasted on some kind of, like, lame government policy. It it really just debases and and, you know, waters down the value of the announcements.

17:31Rod Palmer And we used to live and die by the announcements.

17:36David Bennett Yes. Yes. We did. And what's interesting about this particular situation is that the politician in question, Ian Calderon,

17:48David Bennett has 16.6% of the followers that Dennis Porter has. I I find these numbers staggering, and it turns out that Ian Calderon and Dennis Porter worked together

18:05David Bennett at Satoshi Action Fund, and that's how they know each other. And so I got somebody with a quarter million followers, shilling a complete unknown in a gubernatorial race in the largest state, most populous state in The United States, California. He ain't got a hope in hell.

18:24David Bennett It's not gonna happen. And the fact that that he's doing he's just doing the, I like Bitcoin.

18:33David Bennett Therefore you should like me. It's not going to work this time. It's just not, he's not going to be, he's not going to even make it, make it out of the primary. And this is the nothing burger is, is like, it's a nothing burger filled with it's not even,

18:53David Bennett it's not even an empty bun. There's nothing there. It it's all it's all smoke and mirrors and bullshit. And I don't even know what either one of these guys are I mean, they know he can't win. So what what's really going on? Why the why this announcement? Why this this this connection between these two people? Something else is brewing under the under the, hood of this car.

19:23Rod Palmer This is the first politician that Dennis Porter has ever officially endorsed, and this is why this could be a game changer. With the ability

19:35Rod Palmer to get this many announcements out about when you get your name out there, Ian Calderon, make you, controversial, make you, tie you to this nothing bird or meme. Dennis Porter, his,

19:52Rod Palmer his ways are mysterious sometimes, and they are unconventional to say the least. But people do talk about bipartisan Bitcoin legislation

20:04Rod Palmer and strategic reserves in large part to Dennis's announcements. So me and maybe Ian Calderon is, you know, it's an unconventional political strategy, but these are unconventional

20:15Richard Greaser political times. I I do wanna make a correction real quick. This is, at least the second politician that I know of that Dennis has, endorsed, but this is the first politician in a long time. And this is the first politician since he's passed a bunch of pro Bitcoin legislation. So it's in in some ways, it's like a new first, even though it's not the first.

20:41David Bennett It's a new first. It's a brand new first because that other first fuck that other first. Let's get this new first going on. Maybe this one will be better. Yeah. We'll have to see. I mean,

20:54Richard Greaser I think one thing that we all know is that Californians don't largely listen to forty hours of BigQuery podcast a week.

21:02David Bennett No. They're way too more they're way too concerned about the price of gas and the fact that their state has fallen on hard times. I feel bad for them. I really do.

21:16Rod Palmer What is it? I mean, maybe you can answer this. What is it like to live in, you know, a a relatively conservative part of a a liberal loony state? Oh, god. It's so weird. So like, you know, yeah, it's like if you live outside Los Angeles, if you live, you know, in Martin Luther Moore world parts, industrious parts of California,

21:38Rod Palmer a lot of those people did not sign up for the ride that they've been on, you know, and it's just, you know, what's it like being in that where your consensus is controlled by loons?

21:49David Bennett Well, out here in Eastern Washington State, and if you just look at Washington State by itself, it's a loony bin. I mean, as a whole. Right?

22:01David Bennett You had legislation was trying to get is is still trying to get passed, or it may have even been passed, where new restaurants can't have gas ovens and gas gas stoves. I mean, I don't know if you've if if you've ever cooked for a large amount of people,

22:21David Bennett electric is just is just not gonna do it. You you need gas. There was a literally a war on natural gas. I did a a two out two and a half hour interview with a lawyer for a cattle ranch out in Central Washington that is being railroaded by the

22:44David Bennett two state two Washington state, entities, the environment their version of the Environmental Protection Agency and something else. And they've destroyed that ranch. They may not win, but the amount of money that these people have had to expend to try to defend themselves against these bogus this bogus litigation,

23:06David Bennett is probably going to run a sixth generation ranch, under. And I see all around me some of the dumbest shit that I've ever seen.

23:21David Bennett And yet, where I live, even though it's a small town, the town itself is just as stupid. But if I walk or or drive my car

23:37David Bennett 10 miles in any direction outside of the city limits, I'm right next to people that I left in West Texas. Heavy conservative, tired of the bullshit, leave me alone,

23:54David Bennett stop stealing my crap, And what you get is these two worlds that it's like oil and water, and they keep trying to mix. It doesn't mix. It's just this slop. Right?

24:10David Bennett And I like, I've driven through, you know, I've I've hung out in LA when I was a teenager for a little while. And I finally got my fill of that crap, and that was a long time ago, so it wasn't as bad as it is now. And I drove through Needles, California and stopped at a diner, and everybody is completely different.

24:32David Bennett It's a completely different scene. So one of the things that that I think we really do need to back up and and and think about is when we say things like Illinois is a blue state, no. Chicago

24:48David Bennett is blue. If you get outside of Chicago into the farmland, you're gonna end up talking to the exact same kind of people that you talk to in West Texas, the exact same kind of people that you talk to in Eastern Washington, the same exact people that you talk to need talk to in Needles, California.

25:08David Bennett They Right. Wanna be left alone. And so it's it's hard to live in a place that has these, you know, two completely different sides and watching them collide with each other all the time. And at one point or another, something's gonna break loose. I just don't know what, and I don't know when.

25:29Rod Palmer Yo. So we we would talk a little bit about the most of the new announcements are coming on accident and these higher level or mainstream social media platforms, but not you're on Nostr, and we're on Nostr as well. And one of the things that, you know, I it's very difficult to kinda describe what Nostr is in, like, these other social terms, but one way I think kind of fits is like Nostra is kind of like the West Texas, the Eastern Washington of, of social media. And it's like a little slower, a little bit more,

26:04Rod Palmer a little bit more conservative, but it's a little it's not quite as crowded. And it it it just seems like one of the things I'm talking to, this isn't really my opinion, of people on there is they kinda they came to Noster because they were sick of Twitter being woke, and they're worried that that Jack Dorsey is gonna come out to, you know, West Texas and try to make it woke. He's gonna come and try to make Noster woke. Do you worry about anything like that ever happening?

26:34David Bennett I don't. I I I don't in any way, shape or form. I I don't think I mean, you know, in in reality, if I if I go back and I start looking at, you know, if I go back and I I if I were to go and look at, Jack Dorsey's Noster profile right now, he doesn't post a lot.

26:58David Bennett He he he posts every once in a while, but he's not he's not all over it like he was at first. I don't you know, and I'm not gonna conjecture why. I I would chalk it up to the fact that the guy's probably busy. Right? He did his bit for king and country when, you know, he he, you know, started talking about it on Twitter, and he talked about it in, some print interviews. And I think he did, like, he in obviously, in a few podcasts, he talked about it.

27:28David Bennett But I haven't really seen him, like, I don't know, release a an upgrade to the protocol that says blue hairs come here. I don't think he gives a shit. I I I don't know. I've never met the man, but I I don't think he's as I don't think he's as woke as people think he is. I I I don't know why I say that considering that I've never really talked to him, But some of the things that I've heard him say

27:57David Bennett leads me to believe that he just doesn't give that much of a shit about it as as much as the people that Elon Musk fired out of Twitter. I because he got I mean, that boy came in there and he cleaned house. I'm not a big I'm not the biggest fan of Elon either, but what Twitter turned into was clearly

28:21David Bennett something that was just terrible. It just got so bad during and and and then immediately after the COVID thing that

28:33David Bennett I was almost kinda relieved that they kicked me off Twitter when they did. And I try I did try to get back on a couple of times. I think I burned through five, four, four accounts.

28:48David Bennett I burned four accounts trying to get back on, and I finally gave up. And that was at at the exact same time, that was when Nostra first came on my radar, and that was 2022. I think I woke I think I woke up New Year's Day twenty twenty two, and my account was gone.

29:08David Bennett And I had old like, I'd like, I had tried to get back on a few times, spent that year just taking a break, and then Noster comes on my radar. I get

29:21David Bennett my in pub spun up by one of or in second in pub spun up by one of the earliest, Noster clients that there was. And I really I looked back a couple of times. I I do still have an active Twitter account. It's not like it was.

29:39David Bennett I spend most of my time on Nostr, but here's the thing. Jack Dorsey involved or not? I I don't I don't even look at it because if I if I wake up and I start scanning

29:57David Bennett Twitter first, I'm almost immediately in a bad mood. Almost immediately. If I look at Nostra first, I'm completely neutral. It's

30:10David Bennett it's a sea change of attitude because you you sorta are what you process. And if you're processing

30:22David Bennett Dennis Porter's nothing burger, then you become the nothing burger. We are zen with Dennis Porter and his announcement. If I go over to Don Oster and I'm seeing people just basically shit posting all over each other, and every five, you know, noster notes is something that's actually really kind of thought provoking, I'm not in a bad mood because I I'm I'm waiting for people trying to be funny,

30:49David Bennett and at least one person has got something really nice to say. And it so I don't care if Jack Dorsey Jack Dorsey can try. He's not gonna succeed.

31:01Rod Palmer So Yeah. So, yeah, it's it's kind of a I do I'm conventional way to advertise something, but it's it's like, you know, I like Nostra because when I open, I'm emotionally neutral.

31:16Rod Palmer I'm not going to get, like, excited or to get good news. I'm not or, you know, maybe I I am, and then I get there and everything is just so awful that it makes me grumpy. And that seems like that's where like every app you open now it's either you're hella for good news but it's probably gonna be so awful that it really makes you grumpy and ruins your day. And at least when you open Nostr, somebody tells you good morning and like you it's it's it slows down. You don't have to have an a dopamine immediate reaction. You don't have to get things worked up. So I think that's it.

31:47Rod Palmer My question would be then or do you have any regrets about going to Nostr only? Like, for example, do you feel like maybe you gave up the opportunity to become a paper Bitcoin Bitcoin Treasury Company podcaster because you were off Twitter and you were only on Noster.

32:07Rod Palmer Like, is that something that you, you think about? Like, what could have been like, you could have been, like, to Nakamoto or the, the one of the big paper Bitcoin podcasters?

32:18David Bennett Well, it's funny we talk about paper Bitcoin summer because, you know, for the longest time, even before I started podcasting in the space, and I was listening to to the earliest of Bitcoin podcasts,

32:35David Bennett there was a certain there was a a theme that was always present, and it was it can take you years to build a reputation, and it takes you seconds to burn it to the ground. And so we would always talk about reputations as being made of paper. And I

32:57David Bennett this does not bode well for paper Bitcoin summer because there's a lot of people with some heavy duty reputations in this space. And it looks like there's a very real possibility of a forest fire, especially in the in this long this long tail of

33:16David Bennett Bitcoin treasury companies. These guys are gonna get burnt to the fucking ground. It's going to be really ugly. And I'm talking about the long tail. I'm talking like, there was another announcement today. They some cut. Oh, be huddle just bought a 100 Bitcoin for their Bitcoin treasury strategy.

33:37David Bennett Bullshit. And I'm like, you're gonna go you're you're gonna burn to the ground. You're too late. It's all done. The paper Bitcoins, it's fall people. First day of fall was what? A couple of days ago? It's fall. We gotta this is this shit's over. And if I had linked my reputation

33:58David Bennett to shilling strike and strife, and then yet one more, you know, double digit yield account, I I wouldn't have the remnant of a of a audience that I actually have now. You know, my audience is small, but it'd be a hell of a lot smaller if I just said, you know what? You should go buy some strike.

34:21David Bennett You you need that 9.8%. You you need that. And there's no way that I'm ever going to say that. I I value my sleep too much.

34:33Richard Greaser So one of the things that we're seeing kind of across the board, I'm sure you're aware of this, is that the paper Bitcoin companies are gobbling up Bitcoin podcasters like it's hungry, hungry hippos out there. So you see the possibility of the the paper Bitcoin ecosystem

34:52Richard Greaser getting burnt to a crisp in the future. In the scenario that that happens, I think we and correct me if you don't agree with this, but I think we agree that Michael Sailor is probably gonna be one of the strongest ones in that scenario,

35:11Richard Greaser likely consolidating a lot of this. Do you see a potential concern of centralization of Bitcoin podcasters in the scenario that Michael Saylor is the the last man standing in the in the whole paper Bitcoin, I don't know what you call it, trend or or phenomenon.

35:34Rod Palmer The whole subculture. Yeah.

35:37David Bennett I I I could almost see my I could almost see Sailor building a paper Bitcoin media company where he sucks all of us in, gives us enough money to where we have no problem burning our reputations right to the ground and beyond. And then all of a sudden, just cutting us loose like we're just kind of some kind of dead weight, you know, garbage on on the fucking love ship out there in the Pacific Ocean. I I could actually see that occurring because the man's gotta do something.

36:07David Bennett He's gotta do he his company generates no revenue, Unless he's selling debt instrumentation to rubes on the street at this point, he has no revenue. They don't make software anymore.

36:22David Bennett I I'm pretty sure that Oracle has gobbled up all what was remaining of his customers, so he doesn't have service contracts. The only thing that he's got going on right now as a revenue model is is to sell debt. And he uses it to buy Bitcoin and good for him. But I, you know, Richard, I agree that he's gonna be one of the ones that that stand. And I I can bitch about his his his revenue model all day long and twice on Sunday. He's not going away.

36:54David Bennett He's got he's got too much potential that he can leverage. And one of these days, he's gonna start leveraging it. But I still do not believe that attaching

37:10David Bennett attaching your rep, whether as a podcaster or somebody who writes for, so I don't know, Bitcoin magazine, whatever. Right? Attaching your rep to shilling that debt instrumentation and being,

37:26David Bennett like, some kind of mouthpiece for Michael Sailor, I don't think is good until at such time that he comes up with a decent revenue model, and the company actually starts making money. And even then, it's a dangerous it's a dangerous game that we play because I saw,

37:44David Bennett you know, a few podcasters get burnt to the ground during the FTX Alameda and, what would that what was that people the people BlockFi. That that whole mess.

37:57David Bennett Because there was they had money to burn, and we're going after podcasters left and right. I wasn't one of them because at the time, no you know, and nobody still knows really who I am, and not not at that level. You know, I nobody ever contacted me and said, hey. Here's a boatload of money. Why don't you shield our ship for us? And even then, I would have actually had to step back and go,

38:20David Bennett dude, should I do this? Because if this breaks and I'm in the middle of it, I I go down with that ship too. And this is

38:31David Bennett this is always a problem, you know, because it's like you you can you can try to hold your integrity together, and basically, you know, be poor, and like and I've said it on the on my podcast before,

38:46David Bennett Bitcoiners had this thing and still have this thing kind of where we say have fun staying poor, but the only people that really know how to do that is us. We're the only people that know how to actually have fun staying poor. We we built it as an insult, but the more I looked at it, the more I was like, well, wait a minute. That's us. We're the, we're the ones having fun staying poor because we are all the Bitcoiners I know are desperately

39:15David Bennett trying to keep from falling into these traps of, wow. That's that's a lot of money, man. I don't know. I could do a lot of stuff with that money. All I gotta do is, you know, burn my rep and hope nobody notices it. But we don't we don't live in a world where nobody in this world,

39:35David Bennett everybody sees the smoke from you burning your rep to the ground.

39:39Richard Greaser Well, yeah. It's it I I think it's incredibly important to have integrity. I think it's incredibly important to work to care about your reputation, not not just because you care what other people think about you, but because you care about the world around you, and just not being a shithead

40:00Richard Greaser as a result of it. Yeah. But we live in a society, we live in a culture where people burn their reputations and they continue to fail upwards. And it seems like there's no consequences. So there's no consequences for showing BlockFi. You get a bigger podcast as a result of it. You get more followers as a result of it afterwards. People forget about it. There's grumpy people on Twitter, but, you know, those people do not,

40:27Richard Greaser are not able to hold them accountable. Predator cannot hold them accountable, or there's no consequences, seemingly. And in the people that have integrity are having fun staying poor, and the people without integrity are just continuing to to gather wealth. They're getting paid by paper Bitcoin companies.

40:48Richard Greaser So a lot of people, you know, get frustrated because it's almost like there's, negative consequences for having integrity in our culture. Now I think a lot of people that choose the route of integrity believe that's at some point, these there's gonna be consequences

41:07Richard Greaser for bad behavior, that it's gonna catch up, and there's gonna be rewards for being they're having integrity. When do you think that point is when the consequences finally catch up with these people?

41:23David Bennett I don't think they do. Not in not in our lifetime. And and and I hate that I have to say that, but I've I've I've gotta be truthful about it because it ain't just this space. It's this is this is a

41:39David Bennett this is broken money. That we we've been infected by broken money for so long that even even some of the hardcore Bitcoiners that have fallen, and and many of them have, it's it's because

41:55David Bennett we could we can recognize what's wrong, and we do. And we can recognize in great detail what's wrong, and we do. We know the money's broken. We know how it's broken. We know how it gets fixed. But the money's been broken for so long

42:13David Bennett that multiple generations have have entered into a kind of humanity that,

42:24David Bennett in my case, I believe in God, so I'm gonna say that God never meant to actually occur. People walking all over each other for a goddamn dime, you know, people lying to each other, not caring about where their wealth goes after it, as long as they get theirs.

42:44David Bennett Right. And that didn't start with us and it didn't start with our parents, and it didn't start with our grandparents. It started before that, which means we have several generations reinforcing bad behavior

42:59David Bennett when it comes to financial broken incentives. And it's just come down the line. And we are at the end of it right now. But that doesn't mean that the end of the bad behavior and the end of the rewards for that be bad behavior also end. There's gonna be a longer tail

43:19David Bennett on that. Right? So as much as it pains me to say, there's I'm not ever I have yet to see any of the Shitcoiners,

43:33David Bennett quote, unquote, get theirs. And I'll go even further to say, I don't care if they get theirs or not. I have better fish to fry. I

43:48David Bennett I I I don't want to lend what you know, I've got two brain cells left after all the alcohol I ingested in high school. I don't want to waste their energy rubbing them together to worry about what the fuck Dennis Porter is getting paid, and why he's getting paid, or those assholes at Bankless. Right? I don't care.

44:10David Bennett You know, they're they're they're gonna they're gonna be much wealthier than I am. And if, if that is how I gauge myself and the other people that are in this space, then I don't understand Bitcoin. And I don't understand how the money's broken. And I don't understand what the phrase broken incentives mean. So I try as desperately

44:34David Bennett as I can to stay away from the judgment portion. Although I I don't have any problem saying that I I do think that some of these people are pieces of shit. I mean, there there's a judgment call, but then there is the I don't I'm not hoping for consequences.

44:54David Bennett Not because I don't think I'll see them, but just because it's a waste of my time. That's definitely the mindset of the pioneer

44:60Richard Greaser right there. The pioneer is not concerned entirely with other people's behavior and filled with this vitriol of failed purity test. I I think that's a mindset that is really important. You have to eat it. You

45:19Rod Palmer forgiveness for the shitcoiners is not for the shitcoiners. It's for yourself. Well,

45:26David Bennett the shitcoiners, it's like the poor. Jesus said they will always be with you. They will. I mean, there's I I keep there's been several cycles that I've been through where sure you know, I I'd hear people say, well, surely, this is the cycle where the shit coins go down the drain, and that's that's never gonna happen. And I really,

45:50David Bennett again, this is the part of this is the danger of lending your energy to hoping for consequences, Because, a, it's just a waste of your energy, and you're not applying it to something else. And and, b, it ain't never gonna happen.

46:10David Bennett There's always gonna be some grifter and, you know, figuring out how to affinity scam somebody on it's the the best Bitcoin. I mean, I know a kid that's, you know, a neighbor of mine and at the house that we have in in Colorado, and he keeps he keeps trolling me like in meat space about fucking Cardano. And the dude's not even

46:37David Bennett 17 yet. I got a I got a 16 year old kid that's got his, you know, four businesses of his own that he's built. And I'm really proud of this kid. You know, he's he mows lawns. He,

46:52David Bennett he shovels he does, God, excavation. This is a kid that was driving, you know, John Deere tractors and caterpillar fucking backhoes when he was 10 years old.

47:06David Bennett And yet, as long as he's known me, and as long as I've told him Bitcoin only, no. Charles Hoskins and Cardano

47:16David Bennett add us to the moon bro. Add us to I can't I can't do anything for him. I've told him everything that I can. I hell, I even interviewed him for this pod for my podcast, and he was, like, shilling Cardano. And I'm like, don't do that.

47:33Richard Greaser Please Look, man.

47:35Rod Palmer He came on your podcast, chilled card, Damien. Did you wanna slap the broccoli haircut off him?

47:42David Bennett No. I love the kid too much, which is why I'm I will never give up on him. I will never give up on him. I think this is the problem with the

47:51Richard Greaser the boomers, is that their parents just gave up on them. They were running around. They had the long hair, dropping acid, engaging in the MK Ultra experiments with the CIA. Their parents are just like, you guys are fucking idiots. Like, we're done with you. And then the burglars are like, oh, this is how you parent. You just give up on your kids. We're just gonna call them we're gonna call the Gen Xers, the millennials. We're gonna call them pieces of shit. We're gonna call them lazy.

48:21Richard Greaser Our parents did that to us.

48:24Rod Palmer Well, I mean, you both the the their parents, they they were the champions, the heroes of the last four turning. And then they had a bunch of kids who turned into hippies. They had kids who turned into hippies, and just were just, like, such hypocritical. And

48:44Rod Palmer it's hard to it's hard to blame them sometimes, but it's it's proof that you shouldn't give up. You shouldn't give up. Otherwise, if they're if they're experimenting with Cardano when they should be, you know, listening to the Sailor series, Robert Breedlove, instead. Like, who knows what they're gonna do if they keep it keep spiraling down? They're gonna have their own

49:07Rod Palmer their own broccoli haircut. What's stuck?

49:10Richard Greaser I we gotta break the cycle. We we can't give up on the broccoli haircuts. They're gonna be shilling their salami tokens. They're gonna be pumping Cardano. They're gonna be talking about XRP. We can't give up on them like the boomers gave up on us.

49:26David Bennett Well, what's what's really gonna blow people's minds in in the Bitcoin space is and it's kinda already happening. I've I've seen a couple instances, but it hasn't really popped its ugly head. But my prediction is that you're actually going to see a lot of people on Bitcoin Twitter, or, well, at this point, crypto Twitter that swears up and down that they're gonna make a million dollars because they're gonna hold tether.

49:55David Bennett They don't understand what it is, and they're they're gonna shell it to their friends. And there's this great cryptocurrency, man. It's pegged to the dollar, and they don't understand what that means.

50:08Rod Palmer I think you're just I think you're just gonna have, like, you're gonna have these, you know, school teachers, widows who they've got a four zero one ks in Donald Trumpets and put tether in their four zero one ks and they think that they're gonna do what they do now instead of just, you know, instead of investing in, whatever their, their four zero one ks program, allows in equities, they just keep it in a money market account and they're just gonna have their Tether sitting there earning, you know, whatever APY that Justin Sun is offering on, you know, one of his, you know, DeFi chains.

50:43David Bennett Yes. Yes. And and, you know, most of our problems a lot of people really think that our problems started with the altcoin, you know, phase coming out of, you know, leading up to 2017

50:58David Bennett and then the ICO boom after the block size wars ended. But it really wasn't that. It's that goddamn sushi swap. The whole advent of DeFi was

51:13David Bennett I didn't see it coming. Right? And at the same time that that shit was was on the table, that's when Tether that's when Tether happened. Because these guys needed to move in and out of that shit, like and and that's what really blew Tether up. And

51:34David Bennett I'm actually shocked that I did not see thousands and thousands and thousands of accounts start saying how they're gonna get rich on tether. I I mean, I I know it's going to happen.

51:49David Bennett I know it's gonna happen. Well,

51:52Rod Palmer I think I think it's already happening. I think it I don't think it's it's quite as, absurd. I mean, there will certainly be people who just, like, think they're gonna HODL Tether, but it's it's coming back kind of it was at its peak in 2021. It was you had the the centralized exchanges, BlockFi and Celsius and Nexo, but then you had all those other ones. And, like I said, Justin Sun has his his fingers in a lot of those. There's, big over in Asia, but you you just go throw your tether on, one of these yield farms or something. It is one of these

52:25Rod Palmer yield experiments they've got and they they promise ten, fifteen, 20% interest. And people think that, you know, they think that they're just making away with easy money.

52:39Richard Greaser Well, for for a lot of people around the world, they they might actually be the case that HODL and Tether is a good financial decision for them. We we saw if you read the book, When Money Dies, people were trading out of the the German or, yeah, the German mark into great British pounds and dollars, and they were just making a killing off the the currency trade. Like, I mean, you live somewhere like Canada or you live in the global South.

53:09Richard Greaser You live in Russia? Who's having currency problems? Maybe Hot Wheels and Tether is, for for a US citizen, it sounds kinda silly.

53:20David Bennett Well, from that standpoint, yeah. In in so far that they're not gonna get debased. So whenever it is that they collect the tether, that's their that's their basis line. It

53:35David Bennett technically, it can't actually go up unless excuse me. Like Rod was saying, throwing it on some kind of Solana chain that offers some kind of, you know, usurious amount of of interest rate. Of course, you always have to ask yourself, where does the yield come from? But that's that's a different that's a different discussion. The people that try that are gonna get wrecked. They they you know, they will, and and that will happen. It's all it's already happening, and it's already starting to permeate into other

54:12David Bennett into another type of thing going back to the Bitcoin treasury companies. I saw a headline earlier. It was either last night or today that the new hotness on Wall Street is dividend paying ETFs. And I'm like, okay. You clearly don't understand how this shit works.

54:34David Bennett I mean, maybe you do the people that are writing it probably don't, but the people that are sending the press releases to say, hey. We've got we're we're gonna design this new instrumentation where you're gonna get yield on your ETF, And I'm like, this is just gonna end poorly

54:54David Bennett again. And I don't have to be in I don't have to be in Bitcoin to see shit ending poorly. All I have to look at is mortgage backed securities and collateralized debt obligations. That's all I gotta say. And and collateralized or or

55:10David Bennett or CDS's collateralized debt swaps or default collateralized default swaps because that shit happened all that shit happened before Bitcoin was even born. Accord you know, from what we know, it was the impetus

55:24David Bennett that created Bitcoin, but I think Bitcoin must have been in the works before that shit actually happened. In either in either event, we keep seeing the same pattern over and over and over again, and it's spelled grift. And it's just a it's just a new it's a new wrapper on an old scam that's been perpetrated on the human species

55:48David Bennett for fucking millennia. At one point or another, we keep thinking that at one point or another, that the hue that humanity will learn from their mistakes and stop being stupid, but, I mean, I gotta be pessimistic on that. I think that there's always going to be

56:06David Bennett a large enough percentage of the human population that you can just scam until the world looks level. And it's it's sad, and I don't like being negative that way, but I also gotta be truthful with myself that all we can really do is save ourselves and save or at least try to save the people around us. We can't save everybody.

56:31Richard Greaser Why is it being negative being accurate?

56:34David Bennett Do what?

56:36Richard Greaser Why is it considered negative to be accurate?

56:39David Bennett Because it's not the story people wanna hear. And it is it's it's not that it's negative. It's that I'm not painting a bright rosy picture, because that would just be straight up lying, for one. But the picture that I am painting, as truthful as it is, it's not it's not the story people wanna listen to.

57:03David Bennett And that's that may be one of the integral parts of of running a good scam is not ever saying the truth. It's just 100% complete lie and being able to maintain that lie for very long periods of time. I I I honestly think that that's all you really need to do to to perpetrate a scam. As to whether or not you can sleep at night, I guess, is up to you and whatever god you worship.

57:30Richard Greaser So who who do you think are the people that, don't wanna hear that? That don't wanna hear the truth. Is it the people that are susceptible get to getting scammed? I think Primarily?

57:43David Bennett I think you're susceptible to getting scammed, and I don't I I don't think it depends on some kind of innate intelligence. I think it's more emotional. And it doesn't matter what your IQ is. You can be left side, right side, right smack dab in the middle. Everybody's got emotions, and everybody can be preyed upon depending on their emotional state.

58:09David Bennett And the money is since the money has been so broken for so long, it's easy to prey on people that are desperate. But that's the target. The people that are desperate. The people that

58:26David Bennett really need, Solana to do a 10 x. The people that really need Cardano to come through for them. You know? It's just I think it's just that simple. I wish it was more complicated,

58:42David Bennett but I don't think it is. And because it's so uncomplicated, I think is why we are going to see this over and over and over again, and we're not going to learn. And we're all and all all the people that are, you know, waiting for

58:59David Bennett altcoins to go away are gonna continuously be befuddled as to why they don't. And it's just gonna make them sad. And I I don't know, man. Just buy Bitcoin. Be happy. Buy Bitcoin. Yeah. The

59:11Rod Palmer the it ultimately boils down to, like, somebody who is looking for the next Bitcoin or the next better Bitcoin. Even if they are cynical enough to know that there is no next Bitcoin but that enough other people will be fooled into believing it's the next Bitcoin and they have a chance to make money they they just keep needing these cynical things to happen to come through for them instead of realizing that you have to learn to come through for yourself. It's like not gonna be somebody else, somebody else's idea, somebody else's

59:44Rod Palmer stock, somebody else's, coin. You have to come through for yourself and you otherwise, you're just gonna constantly be susceptible to, some sort of emotional tug that makes you fall for a grift or risk vulnerable to a grift.

1:00:02David Bennett Yeah. That's that really is what it boils down to. And this has been going on forever. You know, it's just it's the same pattern over and over and over again. And it's just it's just gotten worse because as incentives get broken, there's

1:00:22David Bennett more attack surface because there's more people that are desperate. The more you send the economy into into a tailspin, not just, you know, United States economy or the West economy economy, but all the countries of the world's economy, when you interlink them like this,

1:00:42David Bennett it's like a butterfly flapping its wings and, you know, Indonesia and a typhoon wipes out California. These things are so interconnected now that you can literally manipulate almost you you can almost manipulate the feelings of most of the population on the planet

1:01:03David Bennett in record time. And the more that you can produce desperate, sad people, the more you can take what's left of their money. Because that's that's what I see when I see, you know, one more shit coin come online or one more altcoin or one more ICO or whatever.

1:01:23David Bennett And that's that's the the the problem that I have with these Bitcoin treasury companies. And even though I don't have any, any particular beef with Michael sailor himself, I mean, it's actually kind of a brilliant move. He's, he is the first guy to actually say,

1:01:42David Bennett Hey, you, you should probably really look at your balance sheet and use that as a, as a, a tool of leverage instead of just letting it sit there and, and have cash on hand to pay, you know, next month's, you know, payroll. Because he really is kind of the first guy that said, yeah, we really should probably be looking at this as a our our balance sheet as a tool, as something that we can really leverage, you know, and and here's how we're gonna do it.

1:02:11David Bennett And he was doing so well for so long, and then all of a sudden, he said, you know what? We're not even gonna do software anymore. And then the next thing after that came the dead instrumentation constructions of Strife and Strife and Stride and whatever. And those are that's what I worry about

1:02:31David Bennett if it is not followed up by a rock solid revenue plan like I I have talked to I've talked about it on the podcast on my podcast before Right. Over the last couple of days that he could he could secure loans

1:02:49David Bennett for people using a third party loan, guy like, like Goldman Sachs. And he backs it with Bitcoin and says, okay. Guy that's getting the loan, you're actually not getting the loan from me. You're getting it from Goldman Sachs. I'm gonna back that loan with the Bitcoin that I have in my treasury, and I'm gonna

1:03:10David Bennett take, you know, fifth you know, 50 basis points off the top. So if they're charging you 7%, you're gonna owe me 7.5%. I'm gonna pay the 7% in your name

1:03:23David Bennett to Goldman Sachs, and I'm gonna keep, you know, point 5% off the top, and that's my revenue. If he doesn't do that, then I'm just going to have nothing but problems with if he comes out with, you know, I don't know, t u r d, preferred perpetual. You know? I like that pays, you know, 15%

1:03:46David Bennett or something like that. It's just because it doesn't make any sense. There's only there's only so much so many people out there that are dying to get into the next best thing that's gonna 10 x. And I I think there's I think it's kinda running out of steam, which is if I look at at Strive, at least they bought when they bought similar scientific, at least they bought a company that's got a revenue stream that that that has positive cash flow.

1:04:18David Bennett That makes sense, but continuously printing debt like you're the United States Treasury or the Federal Reserve, after a while that we we know how that goes.

1:04:31Rod Palmer Yeah. Well, you know, I guess really wrapping up the entire thought on the Bitcoin treasury company space is that that there is a difference. Like Michael Saylor is the pioneer

1:04:46Rod Palmer in this, sector, like in this experiment and this strategy. And I think actually, although you raised like some pretty good points, that I, from my perspective, I could see it was gonna just keep borrowing and selling if like he can do it at virtually no coupon or no interest until that kind of runs out and then they'll probably stop. But I think actually that it, I've heard multiple people speculate on this, like that they are, they, when they change the name for micro strategy to strategy with that, that symbol

1:05:15Rod Palmer that, it kind of followed or people suspected that they were doing this brand is over it takes a few years, but they slowly rebrand into, like they're gonna call them strategy bank. It's going to be some sort of financial services or financial offerings, something like what you were talking about. Maybe more broad than that, maybe more narrow, maybe something pivoted altogether. But at the end of the day, like, Sailor is the largest one at scale, the most quote unquote trusted, and most pioneer. And then there's a whole bunch of other companies that are doing this and it's very uninspired.

1:05:51Rod Palmer They don't, maybe they think they've got some sort of plan to, invest in something new and start generating real revenue. Or maybe they're going to try to become a financial city, but they don't really have a solid plan or direction, and they're just kind of piggybacking off of this wave, trying to get extra liquidity for pipe, etcetera. And I think that

1:06:14Rod Palmer that's just the only best something to pay attention to is like don't get caught up in all this hype. There's really probably one or two players that are going to execute this well and continue to grow and that's not even guaranteed. And the rest of these are definitely probably deemed before they, you know, even IPO.

1:06:34David Bennett Yeah. And what I was thinking about earlier today was that given the the news of Strive buying similar scientific, what's what's being positioned with all like like, BeHodl is is a is a great example because it they just announced a 100 Bitcoin buy today.

1:06:55David Bennett It could be, because I usually look at the at these at the longer tail of these companies that are coming in to try to execute the strategy playbook. I see most of these is it is a hail Mary. Even Meta Planet was is a essentially, they actually sell they admit it themselves.

1:07:17David Bennett They're a failed management company in real estate. They failed. Right? However, they're in a position with the amount of Bitcoin that they have that they will also probably survive. Because if they can convert and go into financial services with the kind of bank that they got, they will probably be able to survive, but they won't if they can't find revenue. But for the rest of these guys,

1:07:42David Bennett I'm starting to think that these hail Mary passes are not some of them, like, the ones that came online a couple of months ago, are gonna, like, try to, like, construct debt instrumentation, like strategy,

1:07:59David Bennett sell, you know, perpetual preferreds, and get people to give them money so that they can buy more Bitcoin, which increases their general wealth, rinse and repeat. But these newer ones, like these last ones here, I'm starting to think that they're not even interested in doing that.

1:08:19David Bennett They're looking to get bought out. They're looking for they're looking for Strive or somebody like that to come just say, hey. We'll take the whole kit and caboodle off your hands. And, the top three guys at the company, you can be on our board of directors, and we'll pay your salary. Everybody else, bye. Gotta go. Right? So you're gonna see

1:08:41David Bennett even even if I'm wrong about that particular theory, you are gonna start seeing massive collapse and consolidation probably starting pretty soon and continue throughout the year of 2026. I can't say who because I don't know, but

1:09:01David Bennett it's that gut feeling. It's that that nagging at the back of my neck that's saying, yeah. This shit's coming to an end, and it's gonna convert into something else. And I think the something else is definitely going to include a whole bunch of collapse and consolidations. But I think these newer companies that are doing the strategy playbook, they're just looking to save their bacon at the top echelons of the company and say, hey. We've got enough Bitcoin to be interesting to somebody to just pick us up.

1:09:35Richard Greaser Sounds kinda like ICOs, the pump and dump. Yep.

1:09:39David Bennett Yep.

1:09:40Richard Greaser Well, I think going into the fountain boost, I think, one of the things a lot of these companies could do is, they could buy profitable Bitcoin podcasts, and then they could generate some revenue on the books.

1:09:58David Bennett Buy my bit Bitcoin podcast.

1:10:01Richard Greaser Exactly. So one of the things we do, we we read the fountain piece from the previous interview show that we did. You're following up Matt O'Dell. This is a fun conversation we had. He used to be a grumpy Bitcoin podcaster, but he's not so grumpy anymore. He's hairless, but he's not not as grumpy. Yeah. What do you think about his haircut?

1:10:26David Bennett Actually, it's a good looking haircut. I I can't really see it because he's always wearing a ball cap, but, hey. You know, what you gonna do? Clearly, though, he's got he's got a pretty nice looking haircut, at least the parts that you can see. My conjecture is that his wife gave it to him.

1:10:43Richard Greaser You know why his wife, gave him the haircut? Because he doesn't wanna be short Bitcoin? No. Because these these AI apps, it's it's way too easy when he has long hair to make him look like a girl, and she really doesn't like

1:10:58Rod Palmer Right. She doesn't like she doesn't like the sexy Odell pictures made on AI.

1:11:05David Bennett Oh. Oh, bird.

1:11:08Richard Greaser She she doesn't she's a straight woman, and she doesn't like to admit that her husband looks super hot as a girl. Oh, dude. Double bird. Yeah. It was a fun interview. We talked we talked about a bunch of stuff. We talked about OpenSats. We talked about, Bitcoin podcast.

1:11:32Richard Greaser Odell, you know, I kinda liken him to these figures in American history that have been really important, like a like a Benjamin Franklin type character, like a Thomas Jefferson. Like, when our children are being schooled in the Citadel schools in the future, they're gonna be reading in the history books about the great Bitcoin podcasters. I'd I would lump you in there too. Oh, I appreciate that.

1:11:60Richard Greaser If if you were to compare yourself to as a Bitcoin podcaster to somebody in American history like a Thomas Paine or, you know, somebody like that, who who do you think you would, be likened to in the history of books fifty years from today?

1:12:18David Bennett David Gilmore. I don't know why. He's just my favorite guitar player. I don't really have a lot of knowledge, off the top of my head of, you know, great historical figures. What I don't know. I mean,

1:12:39David Bennett we all make our own history. You know? It's it's like again, this is sort of, like, I I go back to trying not to give my energy over into worrying about whether or not somebody gets their comeuppance. You know, all I can really do instead of,

1:13:00David Bennett you know, wasting my time trying to figure out if I'm like George Washington or not is to just be David Bennett. I mean, that's which is my real name. You don't I mean, I've I say it I say it on the podcast all the time, so I'm already doxed and have been so for years. But that's that's the only person that I can ever be. You know? I can't be like somebody else because I'm not them.

1:13:27Richard Greaser Totally. It it is interesting to think about. Like, Bitcoin Podcasts Matter, we we've all that have participated in this, we've had a sizable impact on history. We've been the, propaganda arm for this shift for for a variety of reasons.

1:13:47Richard Greaser Some of us are spooks. Some of us are good intentioned individuals. Some of us are opportunists. But either way, we've played a role in history. We've impacted people's lives. And, Bitcoin, you know, I think we're all predicting is gonna have a pretty sizable impact on history. But, yeah, we we we talk about the found boost. So, before Ron, I want you to read this first one. But before we get there, I forgot to read a boost from Barn Barn

1:14:16Richard Greaser Barn Miner. So Barn Miner is too stubborn to sound sound boost on fountain. So he sent me a, like, 3000¢, boost, and then he messaged me his message on signal. And I forgot to read this. But he has a self destruct timer on our messages. So his message deleted, but he said something about Fountain being gay.

1:14:42Richard Greaser So he wanted to he wanted to say to everybody that Fountain is gay. There was something along the lines of that. That was his boost.

1:14:52Rod Palmer That's that is the average, interaction with Barn Myers complaining about lightning networking, getting a boost from some like podcast thing that somebody built in their garage in from his meetup and then,

1:15:08Rod Palmer and then his his messages on Telegram disappear even though they're incoherent usually, so it's not like that's good where you don't. But anyways, thank you, Barn Miner. The next one is from fundamentals. Now a little context, if you didn't listen to the last episode,

1:15:27Rod Palmer I brought a situation that, you know, may I hyperbolically attributed fundamentals our friend to having Odell Derangement Syndrome, and has a rate to prove that he doesn't have Odell Derangement Syndrome, within twenty minutes of the podcast coming out, he recorded an emergency podcast about half hour long to explain how he doesn't have Odell Derangement Syndrome

1:15:56Rod Palmer and, to and talk about how much he respects Odell. So, yeah. So that is what his boost is. He is sharing a link to that. He says, my official response to being accused of Odell derangement syndrome. And this is 21,000 stats, by the way. Wanted to say that Matt was a great guest, and I appreciate his candor and generosity with you guys. I expect the retraction to maintain journalistic integrity. Congrats, guys. I already res I already responded by boosting his and saying,

1:16:28Rod Palmer way to prove his point. But, yeah, add him to what she will. I don't think that there's any commentary that I have to add to here. I think that the entire nature of the story, you can listen to the podcast, Emergency Response yourself, and draw your own conclusions. I think that, you know, it's definitely normal behavior, that way you did.

1:16:51Richard Greaser So is your official statement you're not gonna issue a retraction?

1:16:56Rod Palmer Yeah. I'm not issuing a retraction. I think that there is not enough evidence to, to clear him of the

1:17:05Richard Greaser o del durations with syndrome charges. What what's the worst retraction you've ever had to issue, David?

1:17:12David Bennett Oh, I've I can't remember a specific one. When I do issue retractions, it's usually because I I would I don't know. One of the most embarrassing ones was I just to flat out read

1:17:32David Bennett a clearly bullshit store news story or article on on the podcast and then not realize it until I'm, like, all the way through it because it's very embarrassing to do that shit. And it's happened a couple of times, and usually the retraction is immediate because I realized just how stupid it was pretty much immediately. So, yeah, it's usually when I when I

1:17:58David Bennett do screw up like that and don't really truly vet a story, and it it happens. I don't mean it to happen, but it happens. I I feel bad about it.

1:18:10Richard Greaser One one of the things that, credentialed journalists do, they typically don't issue retractions unless there are Jewish lawyers involved with either threats or actual lawsuits.

1:18:23David Bennett Well, Jewish lawyers are very good at what they do.

1:18:27Richard Greaser They're the best.

1:18:28David Bennett The absolute best. If you need a lawyer, get one that's Jewish bad because those motherfuckers don't mess around. You might know this,

1:18:36Richard Greaser next booster. Thank you, fundamentals, for the boost. I enjoyed, listening to your, rebuttal to Ron. The next boost, you might know this guy, David. If you don't, I think you it'd be cool if you did. This is Otis Bittmeyer, 5420¢. Says a delight to hear. He's a Nostra guy. He sells coffee.

1:19:01Richard Greaser He's a good candidate for the circle p.

1:19:05David Bennett Yeah. I I know I know of Otis. I I follow him on Nostra. And I think I think I've I've asked him, directly if, he he'd be interested in in in doing something like that, And I need to get I need to get back to him. There's a lot of people I need to get back to. There's a couple people that are are interested in getting into the circle p and

1:19:28David Bennett just that just makes me happy.

1:19:31Richard Greaser It's one of my favorite things that you do.

1:19:34David Bennett I love that. It's one of my favorite things that that I do. I was just because it's like it's it it for me, it's like, how do we

1:19:49David Bennett help each other in a real in a in an actual way instead of saying, hey, you know, buy StackSats and stay humble or don't buy shit coins or anything like that. It's like, what what else can be done to help people? And it was like, you know, most of these people that are trying to to make a product, they don't they don't have money to advertise. They just don't. And I like you know, even though my audience is small, they do buy things. And

1:20:20David Bennett the people that I put in the circle p, their products are freaking awesome, man. Soap miner, great ghee, Ben Jessamine, and Peony Lane Wines. Who else do I got? Who else did that? Oh, Sheeshi's comfrey. Yeah. Sheeshi and, Oshi

1:20:39David Bennett Oshi from Oshi Good. His, huddle butter and stuff like that is just it all these products are amazing, and all I really wanna ever see anybody do is be able to get out what get out of whatever grind they are doing and and do the thing that they actually wanna do. And if there's any way that that I can help these people out, that that's why the Circle p exists.

1:21:05Rod Palmer Zero. Yeah. I mean, that's that is one of the benefits of farting around on nostrils. You might find some really good hodl butter since it's always out there. Next one is from our, from our from our friend, late stage hodl five thousand sat. The Bitcoin time chain should re replace history books. I met Matt once,

1:21:28Rod Palmer when he was drunk at the rabbit hole recap, hot style takeover, and he invited me and my wife to the park. This was in between at his stage, of grumpiness and the next day of hungover grumpiness. When I got to the park the next day, we, did not get to speak. It was sad that I still don't have Odell derangement syndrome. He's a legend. Or he might have been my moment to stop acting like a retarded pleb and turn into a pioneer. Just like you said, so many people care about things that just don't fucking matter.

1:22:04Rod Palmer Oh, yeah. I mean, I can't no way I can see late stage Hoddle having Odell's derangement syndrome. He's too, he's too chill.

1:22:14Richard Greaser He's a good guy. He's a really good guy. Big fan of late stage Hoddle. I gotta hit him up, see how he's doing. It's been a while since we heard from the orange mart.

1:22:38David Bennett David, are you familiar with, orange mart? Yeah. But I haven't seen, a a nostril post from orange mart in quite a while. Come to think of it.

1:22:50Richard Greaser I need to make sure I'm following them on Nostra. It's been a while since I went to the orange part.

1:22:57Rod Palmer Yeah. They they haven't been super active. I actually went and looked because I was wondering. But it is good to, seem back in the booths, listening to podcasts, hoping to see more timeline activity.

1:23:10David Bennett Missed the orange mark. I'm gonna see no bullshit Bitcoin come back, man. I'm really kinda concerned. Oh, yeah. For sure. That's a good one.

1:23:20Rod Palmer The next one, it is Jason c 2,121 sats. Blown away by those so far. Well done, gentlemen. Thanks, Jason. Jason, he has the podcast, back on the chain with with fundamentals. So Jason loved it. Fundamentals.

1:23:40Rod Palmer You can hear you guys talk about the ODS on the next, podcast there. That might be an interesting conversation there too.

1:23:49Richard Greaser Are you a Phish fan, David?

1:23:52David Bennett Not really. I I know of Phish, and I know the, I know the the vehemence of the Phish fans, but I never really never really got into, into the band myself.

1:24:10Richard Greaser We we've hit this point in Bitcoin culture where people have realized there's a market for certain topics overlapping with Bitcoin. And these guys, Jason and Fundamentals, they believe that fish has a lot of overlaps with Bitcoin. So, they frequently do podcasts tying those two topics together, and it's interesting. Thank you, Jason.

1:24:38Richard Greaser Sean one thousand sat says Odell confirmed still on Twitter. So Yep. Odell has been, sleuthily interacting with Twitter via the 1031

1:24:53Richard Greaser account.

1:24:56David Bennett How dare he? Yep. Tom,

1:24:58Rod Palmer last one, sure. 1,000 sets. Great rip. Next, chair.

1:25:05Richard Greaser Average Gary, 1,000 sets says three heart hand emojis.

1:25:11David Bennett Oh, man. That's Thank you. Average shit right there. Yeah.

1:25:16Rod Palmer Well, we're gonna get the average Gary. He, he's interested in coming on the podcast, so that'll be a good interview. Average Gary's got high energy. 237 sats from God Seth. Thank you, gentlemen.

1:25:31David Bennett Thank you, God Seth. Yeah. He always he always boost, boost me. There's a couple of people in that list that boost me, but God's death is is always there. And wartime always boost, my podcast too.

1:25:44Richard Greaser Love these guys. These Noster guys are great. They're they're people I I think a lot of the people that are really excited about Noster are people that are excited about using Bitcoin, and that's kind of a rarity in some ways. It it's I I wouldn't say there's less people that are like that. I think it's just that in the different demographic

1:26:06Richard Greaser growth in Bitcoin is one of the smaller ones. Wartime, 133 sets, two dynamite emojis.

1:26:16Rod Palmer Pleb Institute, 121 sats. Hilarious episode. I appreciate how Odell tried to keep a serious face when RoboCop voice pulled his absurd questions out of nowhere. I would definitely tune in again if I had absolutely nothing to do with my time.

1:26:32Richard Greaser Who's RoboCop voice? Is that you or is that me?

1:26:37Rod Palmer Yeah. It could be he has to be more specific. He probably you can't tell the difference yet. He's a new listener.

1:26:44Richard Greaser Where do you think the Plaiba Institute is? Is it a real institute? Do we have a new institution here?

1:26:50David Bennett We all need to be Accreditation.

1:26:52Richard Greaser You probably know this guy. Oh, hell yeah. Absolutely. Those pies. 121 sets. Salute emoji, mushroom emoji, strong-arm emoji.

1:27:05Rod Palmer 100 sets from BTC onboard. Three thumbs up.

1:27:11Richard Greaser Southside Dave, a 100 sats. Stay humble and let core devs have sex. Smoking emoji. So what's your opinion? Should core devs be allowed to have sex?

1:27:24David Bennett Core devs, at this point, the core devs need to get laid. They need a blow job worse than anybody else on the face of this planet right now. I mean, these guys are just they're going after the knots guys. The knots guys, they need to get laid too, by the way. I mean, everybody needs to go to a strip club, lay down the bills around, and have some fucking drinks because this shit needs to end. Cheers to that.

1:27:51Richard Greaser Is it is that what ends the the debate here? Is sex? Sex sex always ends a debate. How so so the strip club is the key to having sex in this scenario. Exactly.

1:28:06Rod Palmer Sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

1:28:11David Bennett That's why we have it. Strippers to the left, drugs to the right.

1:28:17Richard Greaser So kind kind of closing out the episode, I'm I'm curious. So I believe your your main monetization, strategy for your podcast is, value for value. Correct?

1:28:28David Bennett Yeah.

1:28:31Richard Greaser And are you pretty excited about the, Nostra integration that Fountain did?

1:28:37David Bennett Yeah. Yeah. I am. It's just gonna take a while for all this stuff to to to catch fire. You know? It's like, it's new. People don't understand it. People are used to commercials. You know. I mean, it's we're we're all being pioneers here. I mean, we're we're literally treading into brand new parts of the of of humanity that we've never explored before,

1:29:03David Bennett And it's gonna be interesting to see how it rolls out. It's just gonna be very painful, and it's gonna take a long time. I think I think it's so cool what they did. I'm I'm a huge fan of it to to be able to combine. Like,

1:29:15Richard Greaser as I scroll I scroll through Nostr, and I just see my episode over and over and over again with boost attached to it. Mhmm. And as far as a discoverability standpoint as a content creator, it's it's awesome because

1:29:32Richard Greaser I think a lot of people that are engaging the value for value ecosystem are disadvantaged as far as discoverability in a lot of ways, because they're putting more time and effort in these platforms that may not have a larger audience, but you get in front of the people that are interested in spending Bitcoin, engaging in the value for value ecosystem, and it's cool. It's I I think it's really cool. I'm a huge fan of it. I I see a lot of potential for it.

1:30:03David Bennett Yeah. I love the guys over over at Fountain and, the guys at at PodHome, you know, really integrating the podcasting two point o features. Like I said, it's we don't know where this is gonna go, but it's got a bright future. That's for sure.

1:30:23Richard Greaser Yep. I think the biggest danger for us is if the the broccoli haircuts, try and create something like fountain, but with salami meme tokens.

1:30:35David Bennett Don't give them any ideas, please, for the love of god.

1:30:40Richard Greaser Your your little Cardano mentee, maybe could open a fifth business. No. No. I will not allow it. Well, David, I really appreciate you coming on the show. You got any, closing thoughts for our listeners before we, wrap this one up? Learn how to have fun staying poor.

1:30:60David Bennett If you can do that, then the resilience you don't even need to be resilient at that point because you're bulletproof. And the second thing that goes along with that is we have to discover for ourselves what wealth is and not what somebody told us what wealth is.

1:31:20David Bennett Because ever since you've been born, somebody somewhere is telling you what you should think wealth is. That's the trap. Hell yeah.

1:31:29Richard Greaser Guys, head over to the Bitcoin AM podcast. It's the best place to get your news besides the people weekly, of course, but it's a very different type of news.

1:31:58Unknown Became obsessed with the immutable chain. Buddy, hours per week. Buddy, body,

1:32:11Unknown hours I sink. Hours I

1:32:27David Bennett seek.

1:32:57Unknown I was a national security threat. Forty hours per week.

1:33:10Unknown Forty. Forty forty hours I see. Buddy, forty hours per

1:33:24Unknown week. Buddy, Forty hours I seek. Buddy. And that's just the

1:33:39Unknown start. Now I'm in a Now I've picked a conference over my own wedding. But so far down the rabbit hole, I don't see it ending.

1:34:27Unknown Hours per week. That's just the start.