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Transcript: Richard Greaser Vs. Mike Brock Debate
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diff --git a/wiki/transcripts/richard-greaser-vs-mike-brock-debate.md b/wiki/transcripts/richard-greaser-vs-mike-brock-debate.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..58ec46a6 @@ -0,0 +1,699 @@ +--- +title: "Transcript: Richard Greaser Vs. Mike Brock Debate" +type: transcript +episode: richard-greaser-vs-mike-brock-debate +generated: true +date: 2025-04-11 +audio: "https://feeds.fountain.fm/R8scBF2Wiykm0YVldsHQ/items/l5LLrDigrdEQ6vaUyE6W/files/AUDIO---DEFAULT---bc86513e-7e10-435a-968c-78b13386d7a5.mp3" +duration: "1:47:20" +sources: + - raw/episodes/richard-greaser-vs-mike-brock-debate/bundle.json +--- + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3">0:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3" data-t="3">Alright. Let's see if we're live.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-8" data-t="8">I don't think we're live.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-13" data-t="13">We are live. Wow. Look at that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-17" data-t="17">We are live.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-20" data-t="20">Holy shit.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-23" data-t="23">I figured it out, boys.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-29">0:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-29" data-t="29">Richard is live warming up for his</span> <span class="cue" id="t-34" data-t="34">debate.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-37">0:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-37" data-t="37">Blake.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-45">0:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-45" data-t="45">Alright. Let's see if zap dot stream works. I'm on I'm on Elon's platform.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-52" data-t="52">Looks like zap. Stream isn't working. I've never had this many issues with it. It's kinda lame.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-58" data-t="58">Wow.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-59" data-t="59">Revolution won't have good UX. How about that shit?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-62" data-t="62">How about that shit?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-69" data-t="69">Hopefully, the audio is fine. I assume it probably is.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-74">1:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-74" data-t="74">Okay. Wow. 15 views. Look at that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-77" data-t="77">Alright, guys. So we're gonna go live with, Mike Brock in, like, twenty six minutes.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-84" data-t="84">Oh, wow. Okay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-86" data-t="86">So this is, like, really stupid talking about streaming UX.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-92" data-t="92">Let me fix that graphic.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-97" data-t="97">Flip horizontal. There we go. Alright. Should</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-103">1:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-103" data-t="103">I don't know why it does this. So I'm going from</span> <span class="cue" id="t-106" data-t="106">OBS</span> <span class="cue" id="t-108" data-t="108">to another streaming platform</span> <span class="cue" id="t-111" data-t="111">back to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-114" data-t="114">Twitter, to Elon's platform. Zap. Stream's not working.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-118" data-t="118">Never had issues with it before.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-120">1:60</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-120" data-t="120">Guess it's not wanting to work tonight.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-123" data-t="123">It's it's gonna be slightly less</span> <span class="cue" id="t-126" data-t="126">of a revolution.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-129" data-t="129">Revolution won't have good UX. Oh, look. It just flipped. We got a little bit of a delay. We're looking at, like, fifteen second delay,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-137" data-t="137">from my typewriter.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-140" data-t="140">Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-141">2:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-141" data-t="141">We got quite the quite the setup here. I don't I don't know what to expect</span> <span class="cue" id="t-145" data-t="145">from Mike Brock. Been doing some debate prep.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-150" data-t="150">Getting ready for this.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-151" data-t="151">Been working hard all day.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-157" data-t="157">I, listening to some Mike Brock. I mean, one of the things that's kind of amazing about Mike Brock</span> <span class="cue" id="t-162" data-t="162">is you go through his interviews, and he looks, like, dramatically different</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-167">2:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-167" data-t="167">in most of his interviews.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-169" data-t="169">It's kinda crazy, actually. So, like, you know, he's got his Twitter profile picture. It looks like he's been taking some Ozempic. It's pretty thin. You go back to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-177" data-t="177">his, what Bitcoin did interview,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-181" data-t="181">and he was a little bit chubbier. So it was Priozempic.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-183" data-t="183">That was before it hit the market.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-185" data-t="185">We all know that Mike's not smoking cigarettes. I'll I'll address that with him on the debate tonight.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-194">3:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-194" data-t="194">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-198" data-t="198">I went back to, like, another older interview. He looked like an entirely different guy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-202" data-t="202">He looked like an entirely different guy. Like, he had no facial hair.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-207" data-t="207">His hair was different.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-209" data-t="209">It looked like he'd gotten a bunch of Botox and maybe plastic surgery. I couldn't really tell.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-214" data-t="214">But,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-215">3:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-215" data-t="215">you know, like, I don't change that much over time. I'd I mean, you have to look at me anytime in, like, the last twenty years, and I I essentially look like the same person.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-226" data-t="226">I don't even think I've aged that much. It's kinda crazy. I look like the same person. But, like, Mike, the in the three different interviews that I I watched of him,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-238" data-t="238">just constantly changing. I wonder what that's about.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-241" data-t="241">I think it's just like these Silicon Valley guys. You know? They're they're always, like, pumping themselves full of random shit. There's always, like, the new fad. Those, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-250" data-t="250">you know, go get plastic surgery,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-252" data-t="252">take Ozempic, you know, do whatever.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-256">4:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-256" data-t="256">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-258" data-t="258">I'm just not that way. You know? I I I smoke cigarettes. That's what I do. That that's the supplements that I take. I smoke cigarettes and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-266" data-t="266">work in my typewriter and, you know, go for walks and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-270" data-t="270">get some sunlight. I listen to Steven Loveko a little bit.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-274" data-t="274">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-275" data-t="275">yeah, for for people tuning in, we'll get we'll get started here in a little bit.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-279">4:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-279" data-t="279">I was a little bit afraid that Mike would flake,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-282" data-t="282">but it sounds like he's committed to the interview.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-285" data-t="285">Sounds like he's ready for it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-288" data-t="288">Let's see if Zap dot Stream's working.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-291" data-t="291">Looks like Zap dot Stream is not working.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-295" data-t="295">Blame.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-297">4:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-297" data-t="297">I'll have to talk I have to figure out who does zap.stream</span> <span class="cue" id="t-300" data-t="300">and and give them a little talk. But, yeah, let let me tell you about my,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-305" data-t="305">my warm up here.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-307" data-t="307">For the debate, I I was reading some of Mike Brock's Substack's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-311" data-t="311">articles.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-313" data-t="313">It was, you know, kinda interesting.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-317">5:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-317" data-t="317">It</span> <span class="cue" id="t-318" data-t="318">was kinda interesting, but</span> <span class="cue" id="t-322" data-t="322">listened to some of his interviews. Is it admiring how he looks like he's a shape shifter or something over time, constantly</span> <span class="cue" id="t-328" data-t="328">changing into different people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-330" data-t="330">or or looking entirely different, get getting fat, getting super skinny, going on those epic. I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-338" data-t="338">mean, one of the things I'm really concerned about in this debate is that Mike has not prepared for it like I have.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-346">5:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-346" data-t="346">I I watched some of his interviews. I I read a bunch of his stuff. I I listened to him talk about, like, why Ayn Rand is,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-355" data-t="355">terrible and why objectivism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-357" data-t="357">is stupid.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-359" data-t="359">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-363" data-t="363">it's a it's an interesting debate.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-365" data-t="365">It's an interesting there's gonna be an interesting debate. I don't I don't wanna get into my points too much yet.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-371">6:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-371" data-t="371">But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-374" data-t="374">I I thought the best thing that I could do is open up a Atlas Shrugged and start reading it. So I I I read Atlas Shrugged for, like, about an hour before I went live on the stream, drink some coffee. It's really late out here</span> <span class="cue" id="t-386" data-t="386">in New York.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-387" data-t="387">Really, really late.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-390" data-t="390">Past my bedtime.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-392" data-t="392">Almost 10:00.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-395">6:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-395" data-t="395">Should be going live here in twenty minutes. I I wonder how much Mike</span> <span class="cue" id="t-399" data-t="399">has got in him. I guess we'll I guess we'll kinda figure out what the tone of this</span> <span class="cue" id="t-404" data-t="404">this debate will look like once we get into</span> <span class="cue" id="t-407" data-t="407">it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-408" data-t="408">But, yeah,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-410" data-t="410">I I didn't even know that this was a thing. I didn't even know that you could do conversations on Substack.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-417">6:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-417" data-t="417">You know, I've always kinda turned my nose</span> <span class="cue" id="t-420" data-t="420">up to Substack.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-421" data-t="421">I think Substack is kinda like the platform for, like, wanna be journalists that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-426" data-t="426">don't have the proper credentials.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-430" data-t="430">You know, it used to be</span> <span class="cue" id="t-432" data-t="432">it used to be back in the day. You wanna be a journalist. You had to go work for, like, a CIA ran newspaper or something like that.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-439">7:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-439" data-t="439">And then the Internet came around and and disintermediated</span> <span class="cue" id="t-442" data-t="442">it. Right?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-445" data-t="445">And,</span> <span class="cue" data-t="445">people started spinning up their own website. So I have my own website,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-449" data-t="449">which I think is way cooler than having a Substack.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-454" data-t="454">And part of the reason why I don't really care about Substack is because it's all</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-459">7:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-459" data-t="459">it's all CIA,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-462" data-t="462">kinda monitored, like, Fiat rails bullshit</span> <span class="cue" id="t-465" data-t="465">to be able to accept donations. There's no, like, way to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-469" data-t="469">integrate BD's pay server into it. It's just not a it's not very friendly for Cypherpunks.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-474" data-t="474">You know what I mean? This this conversation isn't very friendly for Cypherpunks</span> <span class="cue" id="t-478" data-t="478">in general because I'm having to use a a app on my phone, but, you know, whatever.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-485">8:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-485" data-t="485">My wife showed me how to do it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-487" data-t="487">I'm not very technical</span> <span class="cue" id="t-489" data-t="489">or tech literate,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-491" data-t="491">but, you know, this is like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-494" data-t="494">it's why you get married. You know what I mean? Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-499" data-t="499">you you need somebody that compliments</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-501">8:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-501" data-t="501">you.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-503" data-t="503">You can't do everything yourself. There there's a division of labor</span> <span class="cue" id="t-508" data-t="508">for a reason. You know? My my wife can spend the time learning, about all these doodads. I I mean, you heard me.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-515" data-t="515">I I can't figure out why this stupid streaming app doesn't work. It's a miracle I'm on even on Twitter.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-521" data-t="521">She figured that out for me.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-525" data-t="525">But, yeah, I mean, this is, like, why I got married because I I</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-530">8:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-530" data-t="530">I fill an important role in the family,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-533" data-t="533">provide for my family.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-535" data-t="535">I bring home</span> <span class="cue" id="t-537" data-t="537">cartons of cigarettes every week. I work my ass off for it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-542" data-t="542">And she shows me how to use my technology</span> <span class="cue" id="t-544" data-t="544">and and how to get my voice out to the world.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-548">9:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-548" data-t="548">And, like, we've got a pretty good system down where, you know, I type out all my thoughts on a typewriter, and then she transposes it onto, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-557" data-t="557">one of these,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-558" data-t="558">whiz bangs.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-560" data-t="560">I think they call them computers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-562" data-t="562">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-564" data-t="564">that's how we got it get it out there. But, anyways,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-568">9:28</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-568" data-t="568">the way that journalism works today</span> <span class="cue" id="t-571" data-t="571">is it it's not substack.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-573" data-t="573">Substack is, like, where the betas hang out.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-577" data-t="577">Like Mike.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-579" data-t="579">It's where the betas hang out.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-583" data-t="583">The real the real frontier for journalism</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-586">9:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-586" data-t="586">and we we all have to give</span> <span class="cue" id="t-589" data-t="589">big props to Adam Curry.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-593" data-t="593">If you're sitting here listening to this broadcast,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-597" data-t="597">I'd implore you to clap your hands right now. Get give a good clap</span> <span class="cue" id="t-602" data-t="602">for Adam Curry because Adam Curry,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-605" data-t="605">he's like Prometheus.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-607">10:07</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-607" data-t="607">You know?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-609" data-t="609">Used to be that the only way to broadcast your voice out there for the masses to hear</span> <span class="cue" id="t-615" data-t="615">was to get on a syndicated news channel. And I I guess you could do AM radio too. But AM radio is kinda like Substack. You know? It's it's it's like the medium for the betas.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-626" data-t="626">There's, like, a handful of guys that have done well on AM radio. There's, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-631" data-t="631">Sean Hannity and, you know, Alex Jones and Glenn Beck and, you know, guys like that, but they're all betas at the end of the day.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-639" data-t="639">They're all betas.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-642">10:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-642" data-t="642">The real frontier</span> <span class="cue" id="t-644" data-t="644">is podcasting, and what essentially Adam Curry did is he stole the fire from the gods and gave it to us.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-652" data-t="652">All of us could now become broadcasters,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-654" data-t="654">spreading our voice out there.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-658" data-t="658">And this is why it's so important to be a podcast listener, not just be a podcaster.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-663" data-t="663">I think everybody should start a podcast. That's my opinion. It's the only way that the price of Bitcoin could go up.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-668">11:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-668" data-t="668">It's a very logical, you know, like, a lot of these guys come up with the price models like the Giovanni guy with Bitcoin power law.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-675" data-t="675">It's it's stupid.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-677" data-t="677">You can poke holes in it. You can't predict the price.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-681" data-t="681">But one thing is apparent</span> <span class="cue" id="t-683" data-t="683">is it it should be self evident to everybody listening to this broadcast,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-687" data-t="687">which is that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-689">11:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-689" data-t="689">if you start a podcast, you'll at least get a handful of people to listen to it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-695" data-t="695">You've got your mom. Hopefully, you got your wife or your girlfriend</span> <span class="cue" id="t-700" data-t="700">or the girl that you wanna be your girlfriend.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-704" data-t="704">Your grandma, maybe. Maybe your grandma wants to learn about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-708" data-t="708">crypto</span> <span class="cue" id="t-709" data-t="709">because Donald Trump's talking about playing with your Bitcoins.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-716">11:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-716" data-t="716">You're gonna have at least a few listeners.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-720" data-t="720">And if we all start podcasts,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-722" data-t="722">we're gonna get everybody listening to Bitcoin podcast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-725" data-t="725">Inevitably,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-726" data-t="726">they're brute force, and it's gonna make the price of Bitcoin go</span> <span class="cue" id="t-732" data-t="732">up. The only reason to to not start a Bitcoin podcast</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-736">12:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-736" data-t="736">is if</span> <span class="cue" id="t-737" data-t="737">you hate yourself</span> <span class="cue" id="t-738" data-t="738">and you want the price of Bitcoin to go down.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-742" data-t="742">That's the only reason to not start a podcast, so I don't know why you haven't started a podcast yet.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-748" data-t="748">But not just that, you you shouldn't just be podcasting. You should be listening to podcast. You should be listening to forty hours per week. And the reason why you should be listening forty hours per week</span> <span class="cue" id="t-757" data-t="757">is so that you have a good understanding of what's going on in the world, and you need entropy.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-762">12:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-762" data-t="762">It can't just all be macro. It can't just all be, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-766" data-t="766">grumpy people,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-768" data-t="768">grumpy Bitcoiners talking about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-770" data-t="770">doomer stuff. It can't just be Marty Ben and Matt Odell.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-775" data-t="775">You need an entropy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-777" data-t="777">You need a broad view of the world. You need to cover a lot of ground. And you can cover a lot of ground</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-782">13:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-782" data-t="782">in a lot of time,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-784" data-t="784">or in in forty hours per week.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-787" data-t="787">You can you can listen to Bitcoin podcasts you don't with podcasters you don't agree with. You can listen to the Progressive Bitcoin podcast. You can listen to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-799" data-t="799">Danny Knowles and what Bitcoin did. And, honestly, I haven't listened to him yet, but I'm sure he's probably pretty good. I feel like Danny is probably a lot more based than than Peter.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-809">13:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-809" data-t="809">But I don't know</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-811">13:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-811" data-t="811">because Because I haven't listened to it yet, but it it I should. I should.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-815" data-t="815">I should listen to it. I just haven't prioritized it on my forty hours per week, but, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-820" data-t="820">you know, if you're out there,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-822" data-t="822">and I I assume out of our 104 listeners, most of them are men.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-827" data-t="827">Sorry for, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-829" data-t="829">the two</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-830">13:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-830" data-t="830">women that are listening.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-832" data-t="832">I'll address you here in a minute.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-834" data-t="834">But to the 102 men listening to this broadcast,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-839" data-t="839">It's your job to provide for your family.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-841" data-t="841">And in order to provide for your family, you have to know what's going on in the world.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-846" data-t="846">You have to be aware. You have to know about the macro environment. You have to know</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-852">14:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-852" data-t="852">about</span> <span class="cue" id="t-854" data-t="854">the cutting edge of privacy tech.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-857" data-t="857">You have to know about the memes.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-858" data-t="858">You have to know about the trends.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-861" data-t="861">You need to know</span> <span class="cue" id="t-863" data-t="863">you need to hear Matt and Marty talking talking about people getting harassed about Teslas. You didn't know all this shit.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-870">14:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-870" data-t="870">And</span> <span class="cue" id="t-871" data-t="871">you're not gonna know it if you're not listening to Bitcoin podcast because what's the alternative?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-876" data-t="876">You listen to AM radio</span> <span class="cue" id="t-878" data-t="878">and get bombarded with gold commercials?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-882" data-t="882">All that shit's meant for boomers. Boomers don't know how to use their iPhones. You shouldn't be you shouldn't be consuming that type of content. What are you gonna do? Watch Netflix?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-890" data-t="890">Get bombarded with woke bullshit?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-895">14:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-895" data-t="895">The tip of the spear</span> <span class="cue" id="t-897" data-t="897">as far as useful information right now is Bitcoin podcast.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-901" data-t="901">It's the tip of the spear.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-903" data-t="903">That's where the action's happening.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-906" data-t="906">And so you owe it to yourself. If you have self respect, if you care about your family,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-911" data-t="911">then</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-913">15:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-913" data-t="913">you should be listening for the HPW.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-916" data-t="916">Now to the women listening to this, it's also important for you.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-922" data-t="922">And, you know, I understand that everybody's an individual, and they have to determine how things work for themselves. And so I kinda make generalizations sometimes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-930" data-t="930">about men providing for the families.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-935" data-t="935">I I wouldn't be upset, you know, if you're a bad ass woman out there providing for your family.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-942" data-t="942">You're being a sugar mama</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-944">15:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-944" data-t="944">for some orange shell.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-946" data-t="946">If that's your thing, go for it. I don't really care.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-949" data-t="949">It's not my thing. I'm the provider for my family.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-952" data-t="952">But the reason why it's important for you to listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast</span> <span class="cue" id="t-957" data-t="957">is so that you can support your your husband or your boyfriend, and you can relate to them.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-964" data-t="964">Listening to 40 HPW is for everybody.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-968">16:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-968" data-t="968">They say Bitcoin's for everybody. I don't really think that's the case.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-972" data-t="972">Bitcoin</span> <span class="cue" id="t-974" data-t="974">is for those who do the proof of work.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-977" data-t="977">Those that listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast. So we</span> <span class="cue" id="t-981" data-t="981">this is how we change the world.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-984" data-t="984">This is how you change yourself more importantly.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-986">16:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-986" data-t="986">You change the world by changing yourself.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-989" data-t="989">There's so much projection, and and I feel like this is, like, what we're what I'm gonna get into with Mike Brock, because he's he's gonna project his worldview onto</span> <span class="cue" id="t-998" data-t="998">other people, and he's gonna condone people for not thinking the way that he does.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1004" data-t="1004">And he's gonna talk about, like, how he needs to coerce people that don't think the way that he does,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1010" data-t="1010">and then use the term democracy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1013" data-t="1013">That's my prediction of where this conversation is gonna go.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1017">16:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1017" data-t="1017">We need to coerce people because of democracy.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1022" data-t="1022">I don't think that way.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1025" data-t="1025">That's why that's why I like the shit coins.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1028" data-t="1028">I don't I don't I don't really engage with the shit coins.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1032" data-t="1032">There's, like, one shit coin that I hold, and I probably should get out of it, which is,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1037" data-t="1037">an error. And it's just because somebody decided to send me it's that Lincoln Park rules guy. He sent me some error.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1043">17:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1043" data-t="1043">And I just haven't I haven't gone about trying to figure out how to convert it to Bitcoin, but it makes more sense to be in Bitcoin.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1049" data-t="1049">But I don't really care about Bitcoin maximalism because I don't care about identity politics. I think it's a waste of time.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1055" data-t="1055">I think the shit coins provide tremendous utility to their our society,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1060" data-t="1060">which is it makes dumb people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1063" data-t="1063">poor. Because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1065" data-t="1065">I don't think it's our job to convince dumb people to stop being dumb</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1070">17:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1070" data-t="1070">unless they ask for help, and we care about them. That's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1074" data-t="1074">it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1075" data-t="1075">We can give useful information to people that we care about,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1078" data-t="1078">but</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1079" data-t="1079">you can you can essentially put useful information out there for people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1084" data-t="1084">by starting your own Bitcoin podcast, and they have the choice to listen to it or not.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1088">18:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1088" data-t="1088">But</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1090" data-t="1090">this is one of the things that I think I'm gonna get into Mike Brock, which is that he just has a very low opinion of people.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1096" data-t="1096">And the problem with having a low opinion of people is when you think that they're stupid, they're gonna act like they're stupid.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1102" data-t="1102">I think people are stupid, but I just don't really care.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1105" data-t="1105">That's the difference.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1108" data-t="1108">That's the difference between me and a lot of people. I just don't really care if people are stupid because I know that they're adults, and it's their responsibility to take care of themselves.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1116">18:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1116" data-t="1116">So if you wanna if you wanna go play with Ethereum</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1119" data-t="1119">and lose a bunch of money,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1121" data-t="1121">go ahead.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1122" data-t="1122">Be my guest. I don't really care. I think it's stupid. I think it's a waste of time.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1127" data-t="1127">But people waste their time in all sorts of ways.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1131" data-t="1131">All sorts of ways. How many people go to the casino? Where there's there's a conference in Vegas.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1135">18:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1135" data-t="1135">How many people are gonna go waste a bunch of money at the casino in Vegas?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1139" data-t="1139">Should I be going and campaigning</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1141" data-t="1141">to tell people to not play blackjack in Vegas?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1145" data-t="1145">Is that how I should be using my time when I'm there? Or should I I have be having a good time smoking cigarettes and hanging out with Bitcoin podcasters.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1154" data-t="1154">I don't really give a shit if you go waste your money at slots.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1160" data-t="1160">Go ahead.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1161">19:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1161" data-t="1161">I don't really give a shit if you go waste your money playing with Ethereum.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1165" data-t="1165">And you go you go use Coinbase instead of Strike or Swamp Bitcoin. I don't care.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1172" data-t="1172">It's not my prerogative. You're a fucking adult, and you can make decisions for yourself.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1179" data-t="1179">We're about seven minutes out from the interview.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1184" data-t="1184">He didn't really give me, there we go.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1192" data-t="1192">Alright. I'm accepting it.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1195">19:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1195" data-t="1195">Alright. What wait. Figure out how to turn on my video.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1204" data-t="1204">Give me just a second, guys. It's about to get real.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1213" data-t="1213">Wow.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1222" data-t="1222">What's going on, Mike?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1239" data-t="1239">I don't know if it's your end or my end that's having the audio issues.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1244">20:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1244" data-t="1244">I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1246" data-t="1246">can</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1247" data-t="1247">hear</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1248" data-t="1248">you.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1249">20:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1249" data-t="1249">Technical</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1250" data-t="1250">difficulties.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1261" data-t="1261">Let me see how I can</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1264" data-t="1264">how do I message you?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1283" data-t="1283">Revolution won't have good UX.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1288" data-t="1288">Your audio</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1289">21:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1289" data-t="1289">is coming</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1290" data-t="1290">super weird</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1298" data-t="1298">through my end.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1312" data-t="1312">I kinda I kinda can hear you.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1316" data-t="1316">I'm not sure what that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1323">22:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1323" data-t="1323">is.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1326">22:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1326" data-t="1326">Give me just a second. Like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1360" data-t="1360">Shit.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1363" data-t="1363">Here, let me leave and come back. Let's try that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1370" data-t="1370">Oh, fuck.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1382">23:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1382" data-t="1382">Alright.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1387" data-t="1387">My video link has expired.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1389" data-t="1389">Can you send me another link?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1404" data-t="1404">Why?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1433">23:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1433" data-t="1433">Well, we got about two minutes and thirty seconds.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1451" data-t="1451">I don't think it's,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1453" data-t="1453">on my end that his voice was all screwed up, but it probably is.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1460" data-t="1460">Yeah. It should be coming through fine.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1464" data-t="1464">Alright.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1469">24:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1469" data-t="1469">Here we go.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1472" data-t="1472">There we go.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1474" data-t="1474">Can you hear me now?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1477">24:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1477" data-t="1477">Hello? I can hear you, but it's it's, like, coming through weird. I don't know what the issue is.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1482" data-t="1482">It's probably</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1484" data-t="1484">it might be my setup, but I can hear you fine.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1505" data-t="1505">Oh, it's it's not working. It's not working again. Here, let me leave and come back. I'm gonna try and restart my</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1512" data-t="1512">my phone and see if that fixes it.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1515" data-t="1515">My apologies, dude.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1522">25:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1522" data-t="1522">Alright.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1526" data-t="1526">I think it's probably sub stack.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1531" data-t="1531">All these webbangs and and doodads and apps is just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1537" data-t="1537">it's just a bummer.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1541" data-t="1541">That's all a bummer. Alright. Here we go.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1545" data-t="1545">Restarting the phone.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1555">25:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1555" data-t="1555">Might be time for a good song.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1559" data-t="1559">Let me</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1561" data-t="1561">see.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1562" data-t="1562">Alright. Phone has restarted</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1567" data-t="1567">while I figure this out with Mike.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1570" data-t="1570">Let's listen to this.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1585">26:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Song</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1585" data-t="1585">More than a bum. Learning to use your brains instead of suckling off their thumb. To build a better world, you have to use your head. Don't you wanna leave a legacy</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1595" data-t="1595">after you are dead?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1604" data-t="1604">Why less when the world is yours to take?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1607" data-t="1607">You look around and everything's all gay and fake.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1614">26:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1614" data-t="1614">Can you hear me now? Yes.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1617">26:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1617" data-t="1617">I can. Perfect.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1619">26:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1619" data-t="1619">Alright.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1620" data-t="1620">What's up, man? Perfect. That's better. Alright. How are you doing? Alright. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1624" data-t="1624">promise my audience I go live right now.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1628" data-t="1628">I mean I'm ready. I mean, I I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't expecting you to be, in a mask and and and with the audio distorted,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1636">27:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1636" data-t="1636">but whatever. Well, this is just me, dude.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1639">27:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1639" data-t="1639">Alright, man. Alright. Fuck. Alright. Let's go live. I'm gonna let's just get into it. I'm gonna let's just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1644" data-t="1644">go live. We'll let people kinda collect in. It's gonna be recorded. We're connecting or not. We're,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1651" data-t="1651">only done this once before.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1654" data-t="1654">I may be doing this more on the on the regular now.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1658" data-t="1658">Connecting. Are we not live? Why are we not live?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1663" data-t="1663">I'm on a I'm on, like, a oh, there we go. There we go. We have one viewer. Alright. This is,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1670">27:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1670" data-t="1670">here we go. People are joining seven nine. Wow. Wow. A bunch of people.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1675" data-t="1675">Hey, everyone.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1676" data-t="1676">People filing in here to watch a live conversation. It will also be recorded so everyone can</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1683" data-t="1683">can</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1685" data-t="1685">catch up on everything we're about to talk about.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1690" data-t="1690">Cool.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1691">28:11</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1691" data-t="1691">Alright.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1693" data-t="1693">Happy to just wanna just, like, maybe give a give a few minutes to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1698" data-t="1698">let people collect here? We're now at 25 viewers and growing.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1702">28:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1702" data-t="1702">Yeah. Sure.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1704">28:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1704" data-t="1704">Cool.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1707">28:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1707" data-t="1707">It's a beautiful,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1708" data-t="1708">sunny, and warm day here in Southern California here in Los Angeles where I find myself right now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1715">28:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1715" data-t="1715">Right.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1716">28:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1716" data-t="1716">My home my home base.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1718">28:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1718" data-t="1718">I really like Los Angeles personally, but a lot of people do. So</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1723">28:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1723" data-t="1723">I want to I I love Los Angeles. We can talk about that. We can talk about my love for Los Angeles. I love talking about Los Angeles.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1732" data-t="1732">But, anyways, yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1734" data-t="1734">Yeah. I mean, why don't we just, like, kinda maybe get started? This is recorded, so people can always catch the beginning</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1741" data-t="1741">of this.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1742" data-t="1742">You know, I wanted to, like well, first of all, like, welcome everyone</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1746" data-t="1746">to my first episode of of Counterpoint,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1749">29:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1749" data-t="1749">a live coherent series. This is why I've been playing for, like, a long time.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1753" data-t="1753">Basically, it's it's a new project I'm launching through notes from the circus. The idea behind it is very simple. If I publish something and someone believes I've gotten it wrong,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1762" data-t="1762">misunderstood the stakes,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1764" data-t="1764">missed the structure, or simply overstated my case, they can challenge me, like, right here in public. I'm willing to be called out on my bullshit. If if it turns out to be bullshit, we'll see whether my the coherence of my argument holds.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1775" data-t="1775">We live in a moment where I think disagreement often collapses. I got an itch on my nose right here. Let me just take care of that. I mean, but we live</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1783" data-t="1783">we live in a moment,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1785">29:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1785" data-t="1785">where disagreement often collapses into either spectacle or silence, and I want counterpoint to be a third space, you know, a space for a rigorous serious disagreement.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1795" data-t="1795">You know, I'm I'm okay. You know, ideas can get tested and and not just shared where argument become the tool for clarity, just not, you know, not necessarily just performance</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1806" data-t="1806">for applause.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1808" data-t="1808">And this isn't about winning. I'm not here to win a debate. It's about coherence. It's about, truth seeking,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1813" data-t="1813">towards a civic discipline. So tonight,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1817" data-t="1817">I have invited someone to challenge,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1819">30:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1819" data-t="1819">a recent piece that I wrote. Our guest here today is Richard,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1823" data-t="1823">Greaser. You you can see that he has, chosen to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1827" data-t="1827">conceal his his, his identity.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1829" data-t="1829">I'm fine with that audience, so,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1832" data-t="1832">hopefully, you'll be fine with that as well.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1834" data-t="1834">He's the chief editor of Bugle News.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1837">30:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1837" data-t="1837">He's a podcaster.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1839" data-t="1839">I think you're, you know, you're obviously a big bet,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1843" data-t="1843">proponent of Bitcoin and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1845" data-t="1845">defender of Austrian economics from what I can tell.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1848" data-t="1848">You responded to my latest essay,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1850" data-t="1850">Clear Thinking v Bitcoin Cult, which is part of my Clear Thinking series where I,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1856">30:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1856" data-t="1856">as a moral and epidemic philosopher,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1859" data-t="1859">analyze,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1860" data-t="1860">various people and their arguments and give my take on whether I think that they present a coherent or, in this case, incoherent view.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1868" data-t="1868">And instead of arguing back and forth on social media, we agreed to have a conversation here in the open. So here's my position,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1875" data-t="1875">stated clearly and without hostility.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1879" data-t="1879">I believe,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1881">31:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1881" data-t="1881">that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1882" data-t="1882">Bitcoin</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1883" data-t="1883">is valuable</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1884" data-t="1884">and potentially</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1886" data-t="1886">important piece of financial technology. I've worked in the space. I understand its utility. I think it has a nonzero</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1892" data-t="1892">expectation value. We can talk about what that means as a technical term,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1896">31:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1896" data-t="1896">as a value you know, as a hedge against, like, political risk. I I gave a talk on this at the Bitcoin policy conference,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1904" data-t="1904">earlier last year,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1906" data-t="1906">on this point. You can probably find that on YouTube if you're interested in hearing my thoughts on that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1910" data-t="1910">But my critique here is, like, actually not about Bitcoin as a tool. This is actually not about Bitcoin as a technology. I don't wanna actually talk about that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1919" data-t="1919">It's about Bitcoin maximalism as an ideology.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1923" data-t="1923">I believe that</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1925">32:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1925" data-t="1925">Bitcoin maximalism has become something structurally different.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1929" data-t="1929">It's something more totalizing than a monetary thesis. It now functions as I've I I have said and argued in my piece, a secular cult. It has prophets. It has sacred texts. It has moral hierarchies,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1942" data-t="1942">based on time preference. It has ritualized speech.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1946" data-t="1946">It even has what, you know, a philosopher like myself would call a eschatological</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1950" data-t="1950">vision of the world remained</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1952" data-t="1952">in a form</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1954">32:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1954" data-t="1954">that is often described as hyperbitcoinization.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1958" data-t="1958">I believe this ideology is intellectually incoherent,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1961" data-t="1961">politically dangerous, and morally unserious.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1965" data-t="1965">I see</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1968" data-t="1968">historical parallels with objectivism,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1970" data-t="1970">which is Ayn Rand's,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1972">32:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1972" data-t="1972">philosophy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1973" data-t="1973">which is expressed through</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1975" data-t="1975">various pieces of fiction that she wrote, you know, such as the fountainhead and and Atlas Shrugged. And if you read that in all 36 pages of John Galt's speech, which I also critiqued,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1986" data-t="1986">in another piece called clear thinking v Ayn Rand.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1990" data-t="1990">I also think that, within this Bitcoin</span> <span class="cue" id="t-1993" data-t="1993">cult that I'm calling the cult, I believe we see fascist aesthetic frameworks.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-1998">33:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-1998" data-t="1998">I believe this shows through very vividly in the last half of the Bitcoin standard,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2004" data-t="2004">and and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2005" data-t="2005">Seifedean's book.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2007" data-t="2007">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2009" data-t="2009">and I also</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2011" data-t="2011">have a general</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2012">33:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2012" data-t="2012">critique,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2013" data-t="2013">about the technological</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2015" data-t="2015">deterministic</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2017" data-t="2017">view,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2018" data-t="2018">and techno tech techno authoritarian</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2020" data-t="2020">turn that I think a lot of people in this movement, I believe, have taken. Now they might object to that and say, I'm not authoritarian. I'm libertarian or inner capitalist or whatever. I have my own critiques there. We could talk about that.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2032">33:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2032" data-t="2032">And I but I believe these parallels are worth naming. And so, I mean, that's my general position. I'm not here to provoke.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2039" data-t="2039">I'm here to be held accountable for what I wrote and to hold the argument together in real time. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2045" data-t="2045">Richard, I'd love to hear your response to everything I just said.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2049">34:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2049" data-t="2049">Well, I I actually agree with you on a lot of things,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2053" data-t="2053">and I I did appreciate your article today. So, like, the little spat that we had on Twitter</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2058" data-t="2058">was a disagreement. So, like, I I feel like to have a a valid voice</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2063" data-t="2063">in this industry</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2065" data-t="2065">in general, you have to listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast a week.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2070">34:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2070" data-t="2070">But Why? Why?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2072" data-t="2072">Why? Why? I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2074" data-t="2074">why do we have to listen to forty hours of Bitcoin? I mean, I have a I mean, I only have so much time in a week. I do a lot of things. I do a lot of reading. I do a lot of writing.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2083" data-t="2083">I mean I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2084" data-t="2084">how how could, like, one possibly</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2087" data-t="2087">commit themselves that much to one single</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2090">34:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2090" data-t="2090">topic and have a fulfilled life?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2093" data-t="2093">I lost that as a philosopher, actually.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2095">34:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2095" data-t="2095">Well, I I think I I was I was kinda talking about this earlier with some people.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2100" data-t="2100">I I think, like, one of our jobs you know, like, my job as a man, as a husband, as father</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2107" data-t="2107">show up for my family and provide for them. And I don't think I can adequately do that unless I understand the world</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2114" data-t="2114">properly.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2115" data-t="2115">And, like, why forty hours? It's because you need entropy because one isn't just enough. Like, you know, there there's, like, one person like, you know, Lynn Alden's great. Right? She's super hot. She's great. Yeah. I love Lynn. Lynn and I Lynn and I Lynn and I Lynn and I have been actually chatting, actually, between the two of us.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2130">35:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2130" data-t="2130">We've had a little kind of conversation</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2132" data-t="2132">going I mean, I'm not gonna, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2134" data-t="2134">say what we've been talking about, but Lynn and I know each other, and we've we've had long conversations.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2139">35:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2139" data-t="2139">That's awesome. Dude, when Lynn slides into DMs, it's great. It just makes you it makes my day</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2145" data-t="2145">awesome.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2147">35:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2147" data-t="2147">Yeah. You need entropy. You know what I mean? And, like What do you mean by need? What do you mean by need need entropy? Well, you can't a lot about entropy and my philosophical</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2157" data-t="2157">work, so I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it. Well, you can't just only consume macro. Right?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2164">36:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2164" data-t="2164">You you need a wide variety of Bitcoin podcasts. But I think where Bitcoin podcasts are valuable is, like, you know, people have been right over and over and over again. And, like, most of the other media forums have been wrong over and over and over again.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2178" data-t="2178">But Mhmm. I wanna before I wanna What? I don't wanna expand on this too much because I wanna I wanna get into, like, the actual debate of substance. But,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2186">36:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2186" data-t="2186">Yeah. I'd love to talk to you about your views on Austrian economics in particular. I am a harsh critic of Austrian economics, a harsh critic of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2193" data-t="2193">Murray Rothbard.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2195" data-t="2195">I am I I should warn you that, like, I am a sophisticated</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2199" data-t="2199">philosopher who has</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2201" data-t="2201">very mechan</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2203" data-t="2203">very methodically and, rigorously</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2205">36:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2205" data-t="2205">deconstructed</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2206" data-t="2206">Mises and Rothbard's praxeological</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2209" data-t="2209">argument.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2210" data-t="2210">So I'm, like so if you think I'd I should warn you that, like, when if if you assume that I'm unfamiliar with the arguments that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2217" data-t="2217">that had been made by these people, including, like, you know, you know, Hans Hermann Hafe and and his, you know, you know, his his book, you know, Democracy, The God That Failed that I've also critiqued. I'm, like, not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2229" data-t="2229">stupid about these arguments. I mean, I'm I'm, like, a very, you know, I mean, I so I I, you know, I I get a lot of Bitcoiners come to me, and they tell me these these like, did you know about the Cantillon effect? Did you know that, like have you heard of Gresham's law? And it's like, yes. Yes. I have. It turns out that, like, I'm a</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2249">37:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2249" data-t="2249">sophisticated,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2250" data-t="2250">you know, I mean, I'm I'm I'm a sophisticated person who has actually read a lot, and I have, particularly</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2255" data-t="2255">actually, twenty years ago, I was a little I was an anarcho capitalist libertarian, like, 20 year old, who was reading Rothbard and all of these arguments. So, I mean, the I I'm always surprised that people think that I just haven't heard of these arguments before, and that's why I don't agree. I have heard the arguments, and I have</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2274" data-t="2274">critiqued them at length. And and so I should just, like so I'm I'm I'm curious to to hear perhaps, like, where my critiques go wrong on that. Well, here here's two things I wanna I wanna say real quick. So I wanna argue with you about objectivism.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2290" data-t="2290">Okay. Let's talk about objectivism.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2292">38:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2292" data-t="2292">But before before I spent three days writing a whole on it. Before before we get into that, I I wanna start with the things that I agree with you on.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2301" data-t="2301">So I I agree with you on the the Bitcoin maximalism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2305" data-t="2305">cult side of things. But I think Yeah. I think I believe that for different reasons than you do.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2313" data-t="2313">Okay. I believe that Bitcoin maximalism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2316" data-t="2316">is a form of identity politics.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2318" data-t="2318">It's a form of collectivism</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2321">38:41</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2321" data-t="2321">and collectivist thinking</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2322" data-t="2322">in order to get people to turn their brains off. It's essentially a marketing scheme to get people to use inferior products to Coinbase.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2331" data-t="2331">This seems very different than your stance earlier on on Twitter and and and SubStack, to be honest with you. Like, I've been, like okay. Well, that that that and I I feel like most people come to that conclusion if they listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast, Oui.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2346">39:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2346" data-t="2346">Because you need the entropy. You need the I'm not I'm not gonna listen to forty hours of Bitcoin, and I will not endorse that for my audience just to see where.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2354">39:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2354" data-t="2354">But, yeah, I mean, essentially, like, how I see this conversation going is, like, I'm the hero of a Ayn Rand novel, and you're the the villain of a Ayn Rand novel. I am okay. Oh, so I'm a moocher. You're no. Well a moocher. Yeah. I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2370" data-t="2370">I'm I'm also thinking of, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2372" data-t="2372">Ellsworth Tooie in the fountain head.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2375">39:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2375" data-t="2375">I'm Ellsworth.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2378" data-t="2378">Okay. Okay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2379" data-t="2379">Okay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2382" data-t="2382">Okay. I'll go with that. Alright. Well well, I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2385" data-t="2385">I'm gonna think about I mean, I I did read Atlas Shrugged. Again, like, I mean, I I,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2390" data-t="2390">I I I I spent some time, like, reskimming it, before I read my piece, so I'm gonna sit with that for a second and sometimes have tea. Yeah. I mean, like, I I tell my podcast Alright. I tell my podcast listeners to listen to or sorry, to read Atlas Shrugged twice a year. I think it's like a great act of of self care. Why do you think why do you think it's a great book? I think it's, like, I think it's, like, the dumbest fucking book ever.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2413">40:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2413" data-t="2413">Well, I think it's a great act of self care. It's a</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2417">40:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2417" data-t="2417">why?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2419">40:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2419" data-t="2419">Because it's building your own self esteem. Like, one of the cruxes</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2422" data-t="2422">one of the cruxes of the book</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2424" data-t="2424">one of the main characters of the book and and I don't think a lot of scholars talk I wouldn't consider myself a scholar. I'm a credentialed journalist.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2431">40:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2431" data-t="2431">But Okay. You're a credentialed journalist?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2434">40:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2434" data-t="2434">Yes. Really? Yep. Oh, wow.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2436">40:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2436" data-t="2436">And,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2438">40:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2438" data-t="2438">What credential can I can I credential, like, by what organization?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2442">40:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2442" data-t="2442">I have a bachelor's in journalism.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2445">40:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2445" data-t="2445">Okay. Alright. Got it. So</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2450">40:50</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2450" data-t="2450">yeah. I mean, like, one of the one of the things that I think is really important for people to understand</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2456" data-t="2456">is that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2457" data-t="2457">Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2458" data-t="2458">Smoking cigarettes is good for you. Mhmm.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2461" data-t="2461">And Alice Shrugged What?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2463">41:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2463" data-t="2463">I'm it killed my father. So, I mean, like, this my father was a chain smoker, and it destroyed his heart.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2470">41:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2470" data-t="2470">And so I I don't know if I agree with that. Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but, you know, ever since they started banning cigarettes,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2475" data-t="2475">cancer rates have been going through the roof.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2479" data-t="2479">There's tons of ways to die. That's not true. That's not true. Yes. It is. Cancer rates are down. No. They're</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2487">41:27</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2487" data-t="2487">up.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2488" data-t="2488">Can you can you could you provide some evidence for that? Can you cite cite cite cite some evidence? I'd be curious to see that.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2496" data-t="2496">You cite evidence. Like, where where can I where can I look? Where can I look? Like, I'd love to see I'd love to see where You first. You first.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2503" data-t="2503">I you know, I broke up. No. I mean, you made the claim that that cancer rates are way, way up. I mean, that's the the proper like, I anyone anyone anyone who's, like, ever done, like, formal debate, like, Oxford style debating or whatever. Like, I mean, like, it would you know, it would I mean, not this is an Oxford style debating. We don't have a actually but, I mean, any debate format, like, generally, it's considered</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2523" data-t="2523">good</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2524" data-t="2524">form to when the person makes the claim to then</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2529">42:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2529" data-t="2529">back it up with evidence if that person challenges it. Yeah. But Not not to force the person that's that's called that's called reversing the burden of proof.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2537" data-t="2537">But I'm I'm not I'm not a scholar. I'm I'm not an academic. I'm a I'm a journalist. You made a claim that cancer rates have gone way, way up since people stopped smoking,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2545" data-t="2545">which is, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2547" data-t="2547">a pretty like, I mean, most people do not believe that. So you're making a,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2552" data-t="2552">a claim which is exceptional to</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2555" data-t="2555">the generally accepted belief by the vast majority of people. So you're essentially making a claim that that's a bullshit</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2563">42:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2563" data-t="2563">perception</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2564" data-t="2564">that the majority view is wrong. Maybe it's been we've been lied to by the establishment</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2569" data-t="2569">and the the mainstream media or whatever you wanna say, but, like, okay. That's fine.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2574" data-t="2574">But,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2575" data-t="2575">you need to like, a good way to prove that we've been all been lied to would just be to show us evidence that we've all been lied to. Like, I mean, like, that's why the burden of proof now rests with you. But I'm not I'm not an academic. I'm a or a scholar. I'm a I'm a journalist. But you made that claim, and and it's like a pretty like, I think most people would recognize that's a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2593" data-t="2593">I'm just I mean, most people would, like, disagree with I think most people would disagree. You disagree that most people would disagree with that? Yeah. But I don't really care what most people think.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2603">43:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2603" data-t="2603">I'm I'm using New York Times Publishers. I mean, I do. I mean, I do. If, like, most people want it like, most if most people wanna, like, do something that I think is morally bad, like, I care a lot about that. I wanna convince people otherwise. So,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2617" data-t="2617">I mean, like, I live in a society, and people's opinions matter. Like, I mean, people voted for the guy that I didn't want them to vote for. So, I mean, it does matter what people think. It affects my life. It's affecting it right now. My stock portfolio has taken a huge fucking hit because this motherfucker started a global trade war. So, obviously, I care about other people's opinions because they fucking affect me.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2637">43:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2637" data-t="2637">But but that's an that's an example</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2639" data-t="2639">that you just gave where most you think most people are wrong.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2646">44:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2646" data-t="2646">Sure. Most people don't think I don't think I don't think I don't think most people like Donald Trump. I in fact, I it,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2653" data-t="2653">I think that a lot of people hated both of their choices and thought some people may have convinced themselves that he was a lesser evil or something. I don't know that that was a that was that their votes were approbation, but, like, sure. I mean, look. I mean, there are a lot of things that, like yeah. I mean, are are there things that a majority of people</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2669" data-t="2669">believe that I disagree with? Yes. I mean, that's true of, like, everyone, I think. You could probably find that is true of everyone. But, like but to say that, like, I don't care what the majority of people think, I mean, in a political</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2680" data-t="2680">I mean, a society where you have politics and elections</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2684" data-t="2684">and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2685" data-t="2685">an entire political economy, like, you know,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2689">44:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2689" data-t="2689">that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2691" data-t="2691">that that that that that turns on people's opinions,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2694" data-t="2694">I mean, it seems pretty, like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2697" data-t="2697">I mean, it it it seemed,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2700" data-t="2700">irresponsible,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2701" data-t="2701">like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2702">45:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2702" data-t="2702">for your own</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2703" data-t="2703">interests and the interests of those you care about to not care about what most people think. That just doesn't make sense. That seems like an antisocial</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2711" data-t="2711">stance.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2713" data-t="2713">Maybe. Like, if you don't care what most people think, then, like, why are you even trying to convince people to like Bitcoin?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2719" data-t="2719">Most people are most people don't think that Bitcoin is the future of money. So you're saying you don't care what most people think, so why take the time to convince them otherwise? I'm not trying to convince anybody anything.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2731">45:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2731" data-t="2731">I believe people are adults that no. What's Google News' purpose then?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2736" data-t="2736">To report the news.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2738">45:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2738" data-t="2738">For what? What is the purpose if you're not trying to convince anyone of everything? We're reporting the news.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2745">45:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2745" data-t="2745">We've got we've got an audience that likes us. We're not we're not going for the majority.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2750" data-t="2750">There's people that we're serving that like us. We're not trying to convince anybody of anything because we think people are adults, and they can think for themselves and make up their own minds.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2759" data-t="2759">That's kinda like the crux of the the objectivist.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2763" data-t="2763">It it is kinda why I reject Bitcoin maximalism as identity politics,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2767" data-t="2767">collectivist</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2768" data-t="2768">movement</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2770">46:10</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2770" data-t="2770">is it's I see it as a form of brainwashing</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2773" data-t="2773">through tribalism. Like, one of the things you said earlier is that most people didn't like either choice.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2779" data-t="2779">Why is that an adequate thing to accept</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2782">46:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2782" data-t="2782">if you don't like either choice and you're getting screwed either. Right? I mean, there's a lot of times I don't like either choice. Like, if I get cancer, like, in the choices between chemotherapy and dying of cancer, those are two bad choices. But one is better than the other. But but if you listen to Bitcoin like I mean, we're we're we're we're we're faced with choices like this all the time. It's just called living in the world.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2802">46:42</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2802" data-t="2802">But if you listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast a week, you would know that the not only but there's more than two choices.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2809">46:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2809" data-t="2809">There's more than two what what was the other choice? What what, like, what was the other choice on on November 3? I don't know. Between chemotherapy and and dying of cancer.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2819" data-t="2819">What's the third choice there? Maybe you should go listen to forty hours of Bitcoin have a how does Bitcoin have a have a have a have a give me a third choice, on a cancer diagnosis? I'll I'll prescribe you I'll prescribe you forty hours of Jack Crew's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2834">47:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2834" data-t="2834">podcast.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2836">47:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2836" data-t="2836">I mean, and that will say that that will that will that will that will that will cure my cancer? Yes.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2842">47:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2842" data-t="2842">It'll cure your cancer.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2845">47:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2845" data-t="2845">Dude, I mean, I I I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2847" data-t="2847">what? Like, what are you talking about?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2851">47:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2851" data-t="2851">Do do your homework</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2852">47:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2852" data-t="2852">come back to me? What do you mean do my own work? What do you mean? What do you mean? What do you, like, explain it to me? Like, this sounds like this sounds like something that someone shared a fucking Nobel Prize for.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2862" data-t="2862">Like, what? Like, what?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2866" data-t="2866">I mean, like, what what are we talking about?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2869">47:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2869" data-t="2869">Cold, hard fact.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2872">47:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2872" data-t="2872">What? But, But, anyways, let's give it let's give it a little talk. I mean, if this guy is cured cancer, like, I I wanna tell the fucking world. I mean, he should, like, like, you mean the the hero of the century.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2885">48:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2885" data-t="2885">Oh,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2886" data-t="2886">I don't think that's the case.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2888">48:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2888" data-t="2888">Because there's a bunch of collectivists out there that just walk in lockstep, and they don't think for themselves. And the TV tells them that Do you think I think for do you think I don't think for my do you think I don't think for myself? Do you think I'm like like, what what is it like, let's just get to the crux. I mean, I'm representing a view here. Do you believe my view</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2907" data-t="2907">is simply the recycled</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2910" data-t="2910">entrails</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2911" data-t="2911">of of of what they have told me to think, or is that is that is that what you think? Well, do you smoke cigarettes and listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast a week? No. I do not do either of those things. Why is why is that fucking relevant to whether I think for myself?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2928">48:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2928" data-t="2928">Oh, man.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2929" data-t="2929">It's important.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2932" data-t="2932">There's a lot of people out there. So, like, let let me let me ask you this, Mike. So</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2937" data-t="2937">how do how do you judge the difference between Ask me. Ask me. Ask me. How do you judge the difference between an MPC and a sentient being?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2944">49:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2944" data-t="2944">What the fuck does that I mean, I know what non playable character means, obviously. I understand the video game</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2949" data-t="2949">reference, but that just, like what the fuck? I mean, what do you mean? Like, what do you mean? What do you mean by that? Like How do you mean? Mean, like, do I do I do I try to, like, do I try to, like, do I try to, like, do I try to, like, categorize</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2959" data-t="2959">other human beings into NPCs and not MP? No. I don't do that. That seems stupid. Like, I think they all I I think humans are humans, and I treat them as humans. And I try to meet them where they are. I try to understand them where they are. I'm like, I I'm an empathetic person.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2975" data-t="2975">Like but you listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcasts a week, and you believe that you were enlightened to know more than, say, someone like me who reads I don't know. I read scientific papers.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2985" data-t="2985">I read,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-2987" data-t="2987">philosophy papers.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-2988">49:48</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-2988" data-t="2988">I I write a lot. I read a lot. I read a lot of books. I I I mean I mean, I guess I could, like, see if, like, forty hours of Bitcoin podcast would give me the same amount of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3001" data-t="3001">information.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3002" data-t="3002">I don't think so. I think that would I'd I'd I'd be surprised if I would then be able to turn around and write, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3009" data-t="3009">sophisticated,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3011" data-t="3011">you know, essays on philosophy,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3013" data-t="3013">political science, political economy,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3015">50:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3015" data-t="3015">geopolitics,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3017" data-t="3017">history,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3018" data-t="3018">just from listening to forty hours of Bitcoin pot I mean, may maybe that's true. Maybe I'd be able to do that. Well, you should you should also be reading Atlas Shrugged twice twice a year, front to cover. Why the fuck why would I read Atlas Shrugged twice a year?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3031" data-t="3031">Because because you need to take a break from Bitcoin podcast. Why? What the fuck does that the the fuck does that mean? Like, why? Like, tell me tell me about Atlas Shrugged. I wanna hear more about this. I wanna hear more about your love for Atlas Shrugged. Well, I mean, one of the things I like about Atlas Shrugged is cigarettes are her main character in the in the story.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3048" data-t="3048">Are you trolling me? Is this a troll?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3051">50:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3051" data-t="3051">No. This is a debate on objectivism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3053" data-t="3053">versus,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3054" data-t="3054">altruism</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3055" data-t="3055">in your,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3056">50:56</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3056" data-t="3056">Ellsworth two. Cigarettes are a okay. Oh, I mean I I mean, I agree there's a lot of smoking, and that was shrugged, and and Ayn Rand was a big smoker. I mean, there's no Yeah. I mean, no no there's no I I ran absolutely absolutely no disagreement there. But what what does that have to fucking do with anything? It's a fucking cigarette.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3073">51:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3073" data-t="3073">But let's let's go back to the MPC question. So, like, do you think MP</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3078" data-t="3078">do you think MPCs realize that they're MPCs?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3082">51:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3082" data-t="3082">What? No. I I just told you that I don't consider any human beings MPCs. That's stupid.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3089">51:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3089" data-t="3089">Why? That's stupid. But there's tons of people that you agree with that you think or don't.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3095">51:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3095" data-t="3095">Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people are stupid. I don't think they're NPCs. So is okay. We're we're we're getting playable character. We're getting caught in the semantics. So you think stupid people are I don't agree. MPC suggests that they have no personal agency. They don't make choices for themselves. They just do whatever their people tell them to do or or whatever some sort of, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3111" data-t="3111">underlying or implicit programming tells them to do. That is, like, fucking condescending as fuck, and I know I do not hold that position.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3118" data-t="3118">Do I think people are stupid and uninformed? Yeah. Of course they are. Like, I'm stupid and uninformed about some things. As smart as I am, there's things I I don't know, and I'm willing to admit that. Right? Like, I don't know the you know, I mean, I don't know the first fucking thing about, like I don't know. Let's think about something I don't know about. I don't know about, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3134" data-t="3134">I don't I don't I don't know about, like, genetic science. I don't know the first fucking thing about how, like, you know, gene printers work. I mean, I have, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3142">52:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3142" data-t="3142">like, I conceptually understand what DNA is, and I have some, like, workable knowledge around, like, how protein</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3150" data-t="3150">folding works and the cardinality</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3152" data-t="3152">of, like, you know, of, like, protein sequences and how they, like it's, like, right there's, like, a right handedness to it, and that's how, like, genes get copied by the ribosomes. I like some of that. Like, I paid a little bit of attention in in that, but, like, I don't fucking know how, like, how actual information is encoded in DNA. I wouldn't pretend to.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3170" data-t="3170">I would look and if and and if I, you know, and I would, like, read about it if I if I wanted to. But, like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3176" data-t="3176">so, I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3177" data-t="3177">I'm stupid about that. Fine. Like, I'm stupid about genetic science. Like, people lot lots of people are stupid about things.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3186">53:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3186" data-t="3186">But you don't you don't believe that there's people that aren't sentient,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3190" data-t="3190">that have the inability to think for themselves?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3193">53:13</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3193" data-t="3193">Do you think you think for yourself?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3195">53:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3195" data-t="3195">I know I think for myself. I listen to How do you know how do you know that you think for yourself? Because I smoke cigarettes, and I feel pretty good about myself. Because you smoke cigarettes?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3205">53:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3205" data-t="3205">Or did you what?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3206" data-t="3206">What the fuck does that have to do with thinking for yourself? I'm a big fan. Like, have you, like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3211" data-t="3211">I mean, what I mean, like, I mean, like, I don't want do I have to give you, like, a crash course in Aristotle or something here? Like, I mean, like like, you know, like, the truth value of statements is, like, independent</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3220" data-t="3220">of, like, the person making them. Like, what, like, what the fuck does a cigarette have to do with this concept of, like, thinking for oneself?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3226">53:46</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3226" data-t="3226">Like, I know I know you have a much higher IQ than me, and I'm not gonna pretend that that's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3231">53:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3231" data-t="3231">not the case, that I'm I'm somehow, you know, smarter than you. But it I still think my my argument's I'm not trying to prove I'm smarter than you. I'm actually asking you very fair questions and, like, giving you opportunities to answer.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3242">54:02</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3242" data-t="3242">How do I know that I think for myself?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3246" data-t="3246">Yeah. Because I because I read Ayn Rand</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3249">54:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3249" data-t="3249">Mhmm. Smoke cigarettes. You read Ayn Rand? I mean, I mean, like, I've read Ayn Rand too. I mean I mean, I don't know that that proves that I think for myself. But you don't read it as much as I do.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3260" data-t="3260">Yeah. I don't read it twice a year. Why the fuck would I read some, like, fucking, like like, ab like, it's basically like a it's it's basically like Ayn Rand, like, basically</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3270" data-t="3270">got so fucking afraid, like, from whatever, like, trauma she had around the Soviet Union and and the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3277" data-t="3277">and communism in Russia that she basically, like, worked her way into a giant slippery slope fallacy that if you allowed any kind of, like, government intervention in the economy, it would ultimately, like, metastasize</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3287" data-t="3287">and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3288" data-t="3288">and and and, I guess, like, asymptote towards, like, totalitarianism</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3292">54:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3292" data-t="3292">necessarily in there. I mean, like, it was like this, like, just like this weird, like, fucking, like, reactionary,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3298" data-t="3298">like, nonsensical</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3299" data-t="3299">slippery slope fallacy that, like, forms, like, the bedrock of her thinking. And it's, like, crazy and nonsense. It's obviously not true.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3307" data-t="3307">Epirically not true. We've actually seen</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3310" data-t="3310">periods of reform.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3313" data-t="3313">Like, you know, we Maggie Thatcher came to power in the nineteen eighties in The UK and basically, like, engaged in a whole bunch of deregulation</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3321">55:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3321" data-t="3321">and shrunk the welfare straight and broke the trade unions. Apparently, that should never be able to happen under the Atlas Shrugged after under the Atlas Shrugged,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3331" data-t="3331">you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3333" data-t="3333">synthesis around, like, if you take one step, you're gonna take another, and you're gonna slide down that slippery slope until the government controls literally every aspect of your I mean, the same thing fucking happened with you guys in, like, COVID. I was told that we were gonna have permanent lockdowns, and all of the Democrats and the establishment people were gonna basically have us under permanent martial law for the rest</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3352" data-t="3352">of history.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3354" data-t="3354">And, like, that was what they are planning, and COVID was just the perfect excuse. And then, weirdly enough, like, Gavin Newsom, like, in California, like, lifted the COVID restrictions, like which I was told by Bitcoiners</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3366" data-t="3366">and stuff at the time that he would never do because, apparently, this is what he dreamed of his entire life, which, like, seems like paranoid thinking. Like, maybe you should see a therapist. I don't know. Like, that's because it didn't happen. It was it was proven empirically false. So I'm, like</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3383">56:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3383" data-t="3383">like, I don't get this like, I don't get ran because, like, this this assumption that,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3389" data-t="3389">that government is essentially just like a a runaway freight train that will just keep growing. I mean, the United States government has not been a runaway freight train that keeps growing. People think this, obviously, has a lot of debt. But The United States The US Government has less per the federal employees when Trump took office,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3407" data-t="3407">there was actually less</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3409" data-t="3409">federal government employees per capita in The United States. People can go look this up, Google it, than there was during the time of Ronald Reagan.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3417" data-t="3417">But, like, that no one thinks that. Nobody nobody believes that that's true. The civil service on a per capita basis has actually shrunk over the last thirty years, which according to Ayn Rand should never happen because it's a slippery slope. So, like, I just like like, it's it's a it's a bullshit position. It's it's it's it's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3434">57:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3434" data-t="3434">it's it's it's obviously bullshit just by observe just by observing reality.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3440">57:20</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3440" data-t="3440">Well, I I mean, that's kind of like a a silly argument because computers came and No. It's not. But but what's silly about that argument? I just Tech technology made yeah. I mean, like, back when Ronald Reagan was president, everybody used</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3453" data-t="3453">pushing paper around. Now they do it all in computers, and you don't need five people to push papers</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3458" data-t="3458">around. Just because there's less government than employees</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3460" data-t="3460">doesn't mean that the government is less totalitarian</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3463" data-t="3463">at all.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3464">57:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3464" data-t="3464">I mean, it's How how how what what what what to I how has your life been? I mean, I understand COVID was a thing. Can we just put COVID aside for a second? I guess it just seems like I I do wanna talk about sans COVID sans COVID, how has the government's totalitarian control affected your life?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3479">57:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3479" data-t="3479">Well, we have we have we have we have unelected officials auditing other unelected</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3486" data-t="3486">officials, and it's just absolutely</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3488" data-t="3488">insane.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3489">58:09</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3489" data-t="3489">Auditing other unelected officials? Yes.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3493" data-t="3493">They're not respecting their data privacy. Should all officials should all officials be elected?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3497">58:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3497" data-t="3497">They're not respecting their data privacy.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3503">58:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3503" data-t="3503">What what do you mean?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3505">58:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3505" data-t="3505">There's this guy that owns Tesla</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3507" data-t="3507">that's running around with consumers with broccoli haircuts,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3511" data-t="3511">and they're going through all our personal information.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3514" data-t="3514">And it's insane.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3516">58:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3516" data-t="3516">Dude, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3520">58:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3520" data-t="3520">You're not familiar with big balls and Doge?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3523">58:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3523" data-t="3523">I mean, I I've heard about that, but, like, that sounds insane, but, like, I don't, like, know what that I mean, that guy is you trust that guy? You think this is normal? You think this is 19 fucking year old, like, running around, like, accessing, like you like, I you'd like you think that that's, like, you think that's credible?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3539">58:59</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3539" data-t="3539">No. I think there should be a ban</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3542" data-t="3542">on all government employees</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3544" data-t="3544">or anybody touching any information that has a broccoli haircut.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3548">59:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3548" data-t="3548">It's insane. What is a what is a broccoli haircut? What are you talking about? It's these these Zoomers.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3554">59:14</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3554" data-t="3554">They go and they they shave the size of their heads, and then they get perms on top to make it curly on top. And and somebody that's doing that is so draining. You're you're trolling you're trolling me. You're wasting my time. What is this?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3567" data-t="3567">Well, we're we're getting into silly arguments. I'll tell you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3572" data-t="3572">the reason why the COVID lockdowns ended is because there's people like</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3576">59:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3576" data-t="3576">me and people like my friends that smoke cigarettes No. And think for themselves and listen to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast a week. And we said no. We're not putting up with this, and there was enough of them. Dude dude dude, do you realize, like, right now, you're just, like, making everyone watching my channel, like, think Bitcoin is insane? Like, you realize, like, I'm telling you right now, like, people are looking at this right now and being like, what the fuck is this?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3599" data-t="3599">Well, they should probably go buy Ethereum and have fun staying in port. No. I mean, I I mean, I I I don't I don't know, but I don't know if that's true. But, like, this is not</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3609" data-t="3609">like, nothing you're saying I mean, everything you're saying is just listed all over the map. Like, you just like, you haven't said anything, really.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3616">1:00:16</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3616" data-t="3616">So that Atlas Shrugged is a good book. I've I've said some things. What's that? I said Atlas Shrugged is a good book.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3623">1:00:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3623" data-t="3623">I mean, I I disagree.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3629" data-t="3629">Why don't you like Objectivism? It's a shit it's a shitty</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3633">1:00:33</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3633" data-t="3633">book. Why don't you like Objectivism?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3635">1:00:35</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3635" data-t="3635">Did did you read did you read my piece, Ayn Rand v</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3639" data-t="3639">Clear Thinking v Ayn Rand. Did you read it? I explained and so I don't know. It was like a 6,000</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3645" data-t="3645">word essay on why I don't like objectivism.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3647">1:00:47</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3647" data-t="3647">Yeah. I read the whole thing. But, I mean,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3649">1:00:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3649" data-t="3649">you read the whole thing, and now you're asking me why I don't like objectivism? Doesn't that seem Well, can I summarize it?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3655">1:00:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3655" data-t="3655">Sure. Because you have this idea</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3658" data-t="3658">of the greater good in your head. Yeah. The subjective idea.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3662" data-t="3662">I actually I actually do. And and you believe that people determining for them what the greater good is is a threat to your worldview.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3672">1:01:12</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3672" data-t="3672">Yeah. I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3675" data-t="3675">okay. Yeah. I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3678" data-t="3678">well, I mean okay. Like, so this is great. I mean so here's the thing. I do have a conception of the greater good, which is that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3686" data-t="3686">I I believe that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3688" data-t="3688">we should be moving in the direction of</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3691" data-t="3691">some conception of human flourishing,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3694">1:01:34</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3694" data-t="3694">that is characterized by what philosophers</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3697" data-t="3697">call the, you know, like, the the the pursuit of the good life. Right? You know?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3703" data-t="3703">And we all have, like you know? And I am a liberal philosopher, so I believe that</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3708" data-t="3708">the conception of a good life is malleable. It's like, you know, the good life could be being a gardener, or the good life could be being a philosopher like I'm being right now, or a former tech executive like I used to be.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3722" data-t="3722">Like, I mean, there's all these</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3725" data-t="3725">options, and</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3728">1:02:08</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3728" data-t="3728">we wanna build a world where, like, most of like, where those possibilities</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3732" data-t="3732">are</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3733" data-t="3733">maximized</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3734" data-t="3734">for everybody,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3736" data-t="3736">without,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3737" data-t="3737">you know, without conflict</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3739">1:02:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3739" data-t="3739">and,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3742" data-t="3742">and towards, like, some sense of, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3746" data-t="3746">shared</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3747" data-t="3747">purpose because we're social creatures. We wanna we speak the same language. We we share the same customs and traditions,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3754" data-t="3754">and we build meaning together, and we go we watch movies, and these become cultural touch points.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3760" data-t="3760">I mean, like like, these are all like, they're all giant texture of what society is, like, towards, like, this</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3765">1:02:45</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3765" data-t="3765">this conception of of of, like, you know, a life worth living.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3771" data-t="3771">And when I look at, say, something like objectivism,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3774" data-t="3774">which is just</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3776" data-t="3776">egoism as virtue,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3778" data-t="3778">my response is, I don't see where all that other shit comes in.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3784" data-t="3784">It's like like, it it just sounds</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3786">1:03:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3786" data-t="3786">like just be rationally selfish your entire life, and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3790" data-t="3790">everything else will emergently wake like, will work itself out. Right? It's like, what no. No. It won't. That makes no sense.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3797" data-t="3797">Makes no sense.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3799" data-t="3799">It's silly.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3801">1:03:21</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3801" data-t="3801">I think it makes perfect sense.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3803">1:03:23</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3803" data-t="3803">You think it makes perfect sense?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3805" data-t="3805">Well, I mean, like, I don't know. I mean, I I don't want I don't wanna I don't wanna live in a world where everyone is just, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3812" data-t="3812">virtuously</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3813" data-t="3813">egotistical.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3814" data-t="3814">Like, what that's a that's, like, the most, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3817" data-t="3817">fuck. Like, you think, like, these, like,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3820">1:03:40</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3820" data-t="3820">halting, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3822" data-t="3822">shallow conversations</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3823" data-t="3823">that Ayn Rand, like like I mean,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3827" data-t="3827">I I don't I don't I why why is that I mean, why is that the world you wanna live in? I wanna I wanna live I wanna fucking live in a world where, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3836" data-t="3836">you know, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3837" data-t="3837">people, like, love each other or sacrifice</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3841">1:04:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3841" data-t="3841">and and virtue and believing believing in something bigger than yourself. May maybe even working on things</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3846" data-t="3846">that are so big that you'll never get to see them completed. Because why? Because, like, because you you believe you believe in in, like, the human</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3855" data-t="3855">civilizational</span> <span class="cue" data-t="3855">project.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3857" data-t="3857">Like and and and that and, like, that, like, fills your heart, and that gives you purpose, and that makes you real and that makes you feel like part of a legacy and connected to the contingency of your history.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3866" data-t="3866">Like, why do I wanna pursue</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3869">1:04:29</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3869" data-t="3869">selfishness</span> <span class="cue" data-t="3869">as virtue? What the fuck? Like that like like like, what what has happened to somebody that they think that that's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3878">1:04:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3878" data-t="3878">good? Because they actually give a shit about themselves.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3883">1:04:43</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3883" data-t="3883">I give a shit about myself. I think I I think I I think I'm I I I like myself. I I,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3889">1:04:49</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3889" data-t="3889">every everything you</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3890" data-t="3890">do everything you do</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3893" data-t="3893">is based out based out of selfishness. So let let's talk about, like, my relationship. That's bull that's bullshit. That's bullshit. That's bullshit. That's bullshit.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3901">1:05:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3901" data-t="3901">You when a mother when a mother,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3903" data-t="3903">basically gives up her own life to save her, like, young child,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3908" data-t="3908">that's not a selfish act. No. That's When a fall when when when when a when, you know, even our most, like, primitive instincts. Right? Like, our tribalist culture. Right? Like, we've seen this. We'll see that, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3920" data-t="3920">alphas in the tribe, you know, like, even among, like, primitive humans will sacrifice themselves for the greater good of protecting the tribe. They'll give their life. We we even in our basal tribal instincts,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3932" data-t="3932">we have a sense that, like, sometimes we have to sacrifice ourselves</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3936" data-t="3936">for the tribe, for the community.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3938">1:05:38</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3938" data-t="3938">So, no, I do not agree with you that all human action</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3942" data-t="3942">is grounded in selfishness. This is just not true.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3945" data-t="3945">It entirely is. It's not it's not scientifically true. It's not scientifically true, and it's not it's it's it's, like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3952" data-t="3952">I mean I mean, have you do do you believe in romance?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3955">1:05:55</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3955" data-t="3955">Yes.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3957">1:05:57</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3957" data-t="3957">Okay. So do do you not agree that, like, sacrifice and tragedy are part of romance? It's not sacrifice. It's a choice of doing what you think is value. Wait. What do you what what what what do you mean? Like, what do you mean? Like, like, what do you mean you like, tell me tell me what romance means to you. When when I take out the trash when my wife asked me to Yeah. And it's super cold outside,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3975">1:06:15</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3975" data-t="3975">and it's late Okay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3977" data-t="3977">I make that decision</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3979" data-t="3979">because my relationship with her is valuable.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3982" data-t="3982">It's it's it's driven It's valuable</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3985">1:06:25</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3985" data-t="3985">to you? It's it's it's a transaction.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3987" data-t="3987">You're, like, paying</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3989" data-t="3989">it's a trade.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-3990" data-t="3990">It's transactional.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-3992">1:06:32</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-3992" data-t="3992">Well, I mean, I don't I don't really think of it day to day as transactional, but you do things that are I never said I hope you never said this. I hope you never said this to your wife. I mean, I'm Oh, I say it all the time. I say it all the time. Well, I mean okay. Alright. Sure. Okay. Turns her on.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4006" data-t="4006">Makes her horny.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4008" data-t="4008">Like</span> <span class="cue" data-t="4008">Well, I'm happy I'm happy for you. I'm happy for you. And I and I I want her to feel the same way. I don't want I don't want her</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4016" data-t="4016">to be living her life for me. I want her to make the conscious decision</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4022" data-t="4022">every day</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4024">1:07:04</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Rod Palmer</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4024" data-t="4024">Yeah.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4025">1:07:05</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4025" data-t="4025">That doing things that are uncomfortable for her sometimes,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4029" data-t="4029">it what it shows is that I I offer value to her.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4035" data-t="4035">But if she's living out of this attitude</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4037">1:07:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4037" data-t="4037">When you say offer value, like, what does that mean? What is the quantity that you're talking about there behind that that word?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4044">1:07:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4044" data-t="4044">Like, how many times she's willing to have sex with me a week, or what do you mean?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4049" data-t="4049">Well, I mean, you're like Well, I want I want her to show up and take care of my kid and cook me food and appreciate me for listening to forty hours of Bitcoin podcast a week. Like, you know, some basic stuff like that. Like, you know, I think love</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4064">1:07:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4064" data-t="4064">this idea of love and and sacrifice, and and this is part of the reason Yeah. I think why we have so many issues in our society with relationships. This sounds like a very this sounds like a this sounds like a very, like, shallow existence to me, like, the way you're defining it. Like, I mean, I think, you know, I went for a walk this morning, and I watched sunrise.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4082" data-t="4082">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4084" data-t="4084">I thought about,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4087" data-t="4087">I thought, you know, I thought about, like, the the potential of the day, and I saw</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4093" data-t="4093">people walking around. You know? I saw, like, lovers, like, walking hands and people getting up and going for their, like, morning morning routines. And I thought to themselves, like, I wonder what wonder what I see that woman. She's, like, jogging. You know, she's jogging in the morning. What's she listening to in her AirPods? Like, what makes her happy?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4110">1:08:30</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4110" data-t="4110">I'm glad I'm glad that she looks happy and content. It's nice to live in a world where, like, people, like, feel fulfilled. That makes it feel meaningful. That's the kind of world I wanna live in. I wanna see that. I wanna feel that, like, texture of life. Not looking at that person and going, what can that person do for me? Like, it's like, why why that just seems like that just seems</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4129" data-t="4129">like</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4131" data-t="4131">I mean, it just it just it just seems like disconnected and and, like, and and</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4135" data-t="4135">awful, like, a awful place to live where everyone is just, like, trying to figure out, like, what value they can extract from other people, like, what trades they can make with other like, that's not you really if you really think, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4147" data-t="4147">but why why even have kids then? I mean, it's like it's it's just I I don't I this just does not seem like a like a a</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4154" data-t="4154">there's nothing romantic about what you're saying at all to me anyways. Like I said, you know, like, I mean, at least in my concept of of romanticism, like, in the the classical</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4164">1:09:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4164" data-t="4164">sense of romanticism that, like, you know you know, you know,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4167" data-t="4167">Shakespearean</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4168" data-t="4168">sense of of it or anything like that. I mean, it's not recognizable to me through any of those frames.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4176">1:09:36</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4176" data-t="4176">I don't expect it to be.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4179">1:09:39</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4179" data-t="4179">Yeah. But then why do you wanna why do you wanna force the rest of the fucking world to, like, live like you then? Because, like, none of us wanna live like this. I'm I'm not the one trying to force the world to live like me. I it's just the way I live, and I don't really care how you live. But I think I I would ask you. I mean, like, I mean, I mean, you did accuse me of Trump derangement syndrome. And so maybe we can talk a little bit about that.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4201">1:10:01</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4201" data-t="4201">When did I say that?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4203">1:10:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4203" data-t="4203">No. I said you disagreed with the majority of, people in America that voted for Trump. No. No. No. I think you're I no. No. I think you're, well, I mean, on your bugle muse thing, like, you I think it was characterized as being in late stage Trump derangement syndrome. I'd like to maybe understand that pathology that I'm apparently suffering from a little bit more. Well, we we have a lot of writers at the Bugle,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4224">1:10:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4224" data-t="4224">so that was probably one of the other writers. What do you what do you what do you what do you think what do you think your your other writer meant by that when they said that? I don't know. They're not here debating you right now.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4237">1:10:37</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4237" data-t="4237">Okay.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4238" data-t="4238">I mean, I think I mean, I think Donald Trump is, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4243" data-t="4243">I mean, I I mean, like Is it is it I mean, I think I think he's destroy I think he is destroying this country. Yeah. Literally destroying it. No. He's a he's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4252">1:10:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4252" data-t="4252">a collectivist.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4253">1:10:53</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4253" data-t="4253">100%. I agree. Well, that's good. That's good. Yeah. Well,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4257" data-t="4257">so we agree on I mean, I don't I mean, I don't think he's a collective. You think he's not collective? What does that mean? Define collectivism to me.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4266" data-t="4266">I mean, I I mean, I I mean, I know a lot about political philosophy. So when you use that word, I have, like, actually</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4272" data-t="4272">pretty rigorous academic conceptions of it. So just maybe explain to you explain to me what you mean when you say that.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4278">1:11:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4278" data-t="4278">Well, he's a statist. He likes to use coercion</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4282">1:11:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4282" data-t="4282">to accomplish his goals. What is</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4284" data-t="4284">okay. Believes in the state as a means I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a liberal. Does that make me a statist?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4291">1:11:31</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4291" data-t="4291">Yeah. You're a statist.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4293" data-t="4293">Okay. Explain that to me. How am I a statist? You believe in in using the state as a way to coerce other people to behave how you want them to?</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4304">1:11:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4304" data-t="4304">Yeah. I mean, I do think that we should co we should use the state to coerce people to follow the law. That's, you know, I've, that's</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4315" data-t="4315">pretty</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4317" data-t="4317">I mean, like, I think if you were to poll, like, the population's, like, 95%</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4321" data-t="4321">of people would agree with that. The rule of law is, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4325" data-t="4325">the I mean, the, like, greatest fucking invention in the history of civilization. I mean, have you have you, like I mean, have you read, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4334" data-t="4334">any political philosophy around this? Like, you know, there's,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4338">1:12:18</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4338" data-t="4338">have you,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4339" data-t="4339">I mean, John you know, have you read John Locke on this on this subject? Or</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4344">1:12:24</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4344" data-t="4344">you know, I mean, I'm just curious. Does that that ever come up in the forty hours of Bitcoin podcasts? Oh, it definitely has. I've been doing this for years. Okay. I'm fairly red. I I won't claim to be the most intelligent person in the world</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4357" data-t="4357">on the subject. Okay. But, yeah, I mean, let's let's let's talk about this. Let's talk about this legitimacy of this institution. Let's talk about let's</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4364">1:12:44</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4364" data-t="4364">talk about it. Yeah. I'd love to talk about it with you. Can you explain to me why the constitution is legitimate?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4372" data-t="4372">Because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4373" data-t="4373">well, I mean, because, like,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4377" data-t="4377">the polity</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4378" data-t="4378">that it governs</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4379" data-t="4379">considers it legitimate, of course. That's the that's the only reason.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4383">1:13:03</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4383" data-t="4383">That's the only honest answer.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4386">1:13:06</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4386" data-t="4386">How many how many people that. Yeah. Okay. Well, how many people Yeah.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4391" data-t="4391">Agreed</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4394" data-t="4394">and consented</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4395" data-t="4395">to the existence of the constitution</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4398" data-t="4398">when it was</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4399">1:13:19</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4399" data-t="4399">do do you know what the Continental Congress was? Mhmm. How many how many people were there?</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4405" data-t="4405">Those people were</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4407" data-t="4407">representing their polities from their, like, initial the from the initial colonies. There was a political there were they were considered the legitimate representatives in the Continental Congress of the of the original colonies. So that there was already</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4422" data-t="4422">political legitimacy</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4423" data-t="4423">given to the founding fathers through that. Right? Thomas Jefferson, of course, was the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4429" data-t="4429">representative from Virginia,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4432">1:13:52</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4432" data-t="4432">in the Continental Congress.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4434" data-t="4434">And the Continental Congress</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4436" data-t="4436">agreed to have him</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4438" data-t="4438">they debated. There was a debate, like, among them, and they all got together.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4442" data-t="4442">They, like, agreed that Jefferson would write the declaration of independence, and there was all this, like, debate that kinda happened. Then, eventually, they got all together. I mean, like, I don't know, like, what I mean, like, I I just, like, what</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4452" data-t="4452">like, I mean Does it does it bother me? I'm I'm I I I I am a I am a scholar of The US founding, so I'm like like, it just, like, it just it's just, like, perplexing to me. Like, it they didn't just, like, they didn't just, like, here's the declaration and just, like, assumed everyone would go around with it. No. There was, like, a there was, like, there was political upheaval. Like, people were mad, like, about, like, how they were being treated. They there was pressure being put on the Continental Congress by, like, the polity, and they were reacting to it. It was considered legitimate because people thought, like, these fucking pea like, when they they these these people were they're representatives in the Continental Tonga. Like, I don't like, what, like, what are you talking about? Like, there was a there was, like, a</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4491">1:14:51</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4491" data-t="4491">a a grassroots</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4494" data-t="4494">establishment of of governments, and they slowly grew. And they had their legitimization</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4499" data-t="4499">mechanisms, and that built up to the to the to the to the original colonies and the Continental Congress. And then, Jeffrey, you know, they there was, like, a whole there was, like, several weeks of, like, debate. There are some states that weren't ready for independence, and, eventually, they all came together. Jefferson wrote it, and then they all voted on it</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4517" data-t="4517">on, you know, we on that sort of famous date. Right? That, you know, the the the July 4,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4523" data-t="4523">you know, 1776.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4526">1:15:26</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Richard Greaser</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4526" data-t="4526">Yeah. Right? I was doing some homework. And, like, and, like, and, like, and, like, and, like, I just I just don't like what the what the what the fuck you're talking about. Well, I was doing some homework on you, and I just found this contradiction that I thought was kinda interesting. So I was listening to an interview, and maybe your opinions changed, but I doubt they did. But one of the reasons why you said you didn't like libertarians</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4546" data-t="4546">was because</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4547" data-t="4547">they wanted to put up, like, no black people signs in their businesses and their private property. Yeah. That was that. That was a real converse.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4554">1:15:54</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4554" data-t="4554">So, I mean, I, so this is a real story. I'll tell you a real fucking story about this. Well, hold hold on. So, yeah, I was at this, like, I was at this, like, libertarian.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4562" data-t="4562">When are you finished? This, like, libertarian conference, like, twenty years ago.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4566" data-t="4566">And,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4568" data-t="4568">and, I have a really annoying itch on the itch on the bottom of my nose there. Sorry.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4574" data-t="4574">I was at I was at a I was at a, a libertarian conference and found myself</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4580" data-t="4580">in a group of people,</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4582">1:16:22</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4582" data-t="4582">discussing some things, about about, like, the nature of property rights.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4586" data-t="4586">And I brought up the kind of the just the the question of, like, is it accept would it be acceptable</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4593" data-t="4593">for, say, a shop owner to say white people only allowed? And all the libertarian I mean, they were, like, there there was, like, you know, there was a bit of a debate, but, like, you know, the the</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4602" data-t="4602">I should</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4603" data-t="4603">one of the people there is actually a pretty well known person and knows me, and I don't know if I wanna call them out or not. But, I</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4609" data-t="4609">mean, the the ar but the argument was was, like, yes. I mean, if it's their property, that sucks. But, like, of course. Like, under libertarian property rights, of course, you should be able to put a whites only sign and have only whites only businesses. That's just the that's your property rights. And I was like, okay. Well, that's what that was that was segregation in the South. So, basically, you're saying that the Civil Rights Act violated property. They're like, yes. I think this. And they're like, so, basically, like, you would have just been okay with that system continuing.</span></span></p> + +<p class="cue-p"><a class="cue-t" href="#t-4637">1:17:17</a><span class="cue-body"><b class="cue-who">Mike Brock</b> <span class="cue" id="t-4637" data-t="4637">I mean, you have to, like, account for that. If you're just gonna hide behind property rights,</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4642" data-t="4642">that's a very morally suspect position.</span> <span class="cue" id="t-4645" data-t="4645">And, yes, like, that was, like, a major breaking point for me in the libertarian movement. That's that that that's the that that was the story behind that.</span></span></p> +